Multichip LED, Remote Phosphor - Guess who it is.

Yea, pretty much. I've been cutting away "rolled" leaves/?petioles? and coincidentally this has increased the light on those new branches considerably. Also, I've bent the top 4-6" almost completely horizontal which I would guess hasn't done much except force those leaves to resituate themselves and perhaps delay growth a bit, which I'm perfectly fine with. More branch growth will almost certainly mean more flowers, though.

Btw, these flowers seem very easy to pollinate. I just flick them a bunch (not too hard, but sort of rough) and rub all up in the stamen/stigma opening area with my index and the petals sort of wither/dry up the same day which I've come to believe means the flower is "done" and is gonna start working on a tomato soon. I was worried I was going to have to play music for her and sonicate and shit, but no, it's hella easy. Actually, I wonder if the fan I've got in there shakes the plant enough to pollinate.

That electric toothbrush technique was cool.


A very quick explanation of what LST is doing for heckler -

Plants have a whole bunch of hormones in them called auxins. These decide what part of the plant should grow. They're very "floaty" - they rise to the highest point. in an untrained plant, they would be concentrated in the single growth tip.

When you bend the growth tip over, you force the auxins to float into all the smaller growth sites, and they start growing rather than sitting dormant.

Bumping Spheda said:

Btw, these flowers seem very easy to pollinate. I just flick them a bunch (not too hard, but sort of rough) and rub all up in the stamen/stigma opening area with my index and the petals sort of wither/dry up the same day which I've come to believe means the flower is "done" and is gonna start working on a tomato soon. I was worried I was going to have to play music for her and sonicate and shit, but no, it's hella easy. Actually, I wonder if the fan I've got in there shakes the plant enough to pollinate.

Click to expand...

Yes, the fan probably will do the work for you.
(EDIT: Benton mentions that "shaking" may result in INCOMPLETE POLLINATION which can lead to deformed fruit... so make note!)

Personally, I was thinking of putting together a Tom Jones and Barry White mix CD, then maybe buy a little vibrator for Sasha... a little RED one.

Check this out. They actually have TOMATO VIBRATORS!!! LOL


As an aside, this book from Benton is pretty damn good.
I wish I could attach the PDFs of the chapters, but there is a tiny limit on the attachment sizes... too bad.

LIGHT QUALITY
Plants respond not only to light intensity, but also its quality. When there is an excess of blue light with very little red light, the plants will be short, hard, and dark in color. If there is an excess of red over blue light, growth will become soft, with long internodes, resulting in lanky plants. The growth response of the tomato plant to light quality is shown in Table 2.1. The light wavelength range in nanometers correlated to relative photosynthesis is shown in Table 2.2.
Diffuse light is also a factor that can affect plant growth, a factor that has been inadequately explored. I conducted the same tomato experiment in two different greenhouses, one being glass and the other covered in fiberglass. The greenhouses were located less than a mile from each other, and yet looking at the plants, one would think that they were entirely different experiments. In the glass-covered greenhouse, the plant foliage was dull green in color and the internodes long, while in the fiberglass-covered greenhouse, plant foliage was dark green in color and the plants were ‘‘stocky,” with very short internodes. Interestingly, tomato fruit yields were similar, but in the fiberglass-covered green-house it was easier to manage the plants because of the shorter plant height.

Click to expand...

There is a significant positive relationship between mean daily radiant exposure (400 to 700 nm) and the number of flowers reaching anthesis in the first inflorescence, the maximum number of flowers occurring at approximately 1.0 MJ/m[SUP]2[/SUP]/day (Atherton and Harris, 1986). Plant density is another factor that can influence flower abortion and development; loss of flowers occurs with increasing plant density, from no flower loss at 5 plants per square meter to 90% loss at 30 plants per square meter.

Click to expand...

Well, it was time to plant.

Here was their lovely womb for the last few days


Sasha is a mighty fine sprouter. I already saw one popping after only 48hours. Considering they were in a 293K environment, I didn't expect such quick response. Good sign perhaps?


Juliet seems to be a slow comer (or perhaps normal under the circumstances).
Two have sprouted (only in the last 24hrs), while one looks like it's ready to pop, so I figured to not wait and just go ahead with putting them in the rockwool cubes.


Using toothpicks to carefully lift the seeds over to the cubes, and pinching the holes closed (but not completely), the seeds were set.
I used the leftover seedling mixture from when I started (0.3mL/L Gen Hydro 3-part) to soak the cubes.
pH 5.8, 260ppm


I also found my old "seedling pad" from back in the day and it still works (made by Grotek... are they in business anymore?)
So I've got that under the tray now, and everyone is having a comfortably warm--and humid--slumber in their new home.

EDIT: Just a couple pics for the record.

Well, today was my B-day, and what did I get?
Sasha poking her head out and even Juliet!

I was thrilled this morning when I saw S3 (see pic) popped out and just the tip of J1 ... I came back 7 hours later and EVERYBODY was coming out to party. Although, I think J3 was the late-comer who hadn't quite put out a root at the time of transfer...

So I think it is safe to say,
Gentlemen, we have ignition...



Can't wait for the lift-off... Hopefully I don't blow-up on the launchpad.
PS that was my fortune cookie

Been a while since I updated. I wanted to give Kid a chance to recoup from all the trimming I did. I was going to LST him, but decided to just chop the top 6" or so. It's looking alright. Not the healthiest, but tomatoes are swelling and I see healthy new growth.




And the Chiesel. Looks like a little Nitrogen toxicity. Stil battling with low RH. Overall, she's looking as though I'll be able to take a clone or two rather soon which I'm looking forward to.

Nitrogen Toxicity...??! nah bruv...new growth.....looking lovely!

Got your cloning setup sussed?

Eh, I'm thinking maybe a bit of over N fert. The leaves are sort of taco'ing down, and that's a deeep shade of Green. That doesn't look 100% healthy to me. I'm not worried about it, though. If I was I woulda flushed the soil half a week ago. Even Kid has symptoms, I'd say. Not worth the hassle, imo, but thanks for the compliments.

Cloning setup? Not really. I've cloned in soil before, I'm thinking I'll have a go at that again. Gallon zip lock bag, yogurt container filled with Roots Organic, bit of peroxide in her water to try and keep rot in check. I used to use Dip 'n Grow with good results, but I think I'm going to try that aspirin technique. If conditions are right I don't think anything's absolutely necessary to get roots going, they'll just help quicken the process perhaps.

Chiesel: Nitrogen toxicity has affected two tiers. Obviously it's progressed on the tier you saw in the previous photo, and the tier after has tip curl and discoloration at the edges, but it looks to be clearing up. She looks relatively healthy otherwise, imo. Side branches getting close to clone size.



And leaves are still dying on Kid. Tomatoes bulking up, but very slowly it seems. I'd say this guy is severely stunted at this point. I really have no explanation for the dying leaves. Stuff looks healthy at first, and once the leaves get to a certain age the just dry up and wither. I almost think it might have a virus. No idea where it would have picked that up. I'll keep it hanging around, though. Hopefully I can throw it outside by the time I decide to take clones. I'm guessing the virus wouldn't hop over to any clones of the Chiesel, but just to play it safe I'd rather not have Kid in the same tent as anything else.


First attempts at vacuum forming failed. I was using the broiler setting on my oven to heat the WhiteOptics film which wasn't heating everything uniformly. Severe hotspots on the high setting, not nearly warm enough on the low settings, with not much ability to play with height. Second attempts will be done just by preheating the oven to 200 degrees, or whatever, and watching the film through the window with the oven light on. Hopefully I can get better results with this method, practice a bit and then try with the other films for a final version. If I end up sucking at life and can't get it done I'll just use the specular reflector that I bought and the 75mm RP lens for the meantime. More on that later.

I dont entirely understand the process but why not use a big bit of flat metal as a "reverse heatsink" to spread out the hot-plates heat more evenly?

Even a big pan?


Or use a clothes iron as heat source like for reflow?

Hey, thanks for the interest. Tbh, though, the film has to be stapeled inside a frame that I built which fits over the box and it'd be hard to heat the film up with a hot plate, or something of that nature. Also, I'm afraid the plastic would stick. With hot air you see the film start to sag, then you see it turn sort of glossy which means you're pretty much there. I have a heat gun which I've thought about using, but I don't think It'd be able to uniformly heat the film, not to mention quickly enough where areas don't cool down too much. I think the bake setting on the oven will do the trick, it's just a process that I'll have to perfect.

Anyway, I couldn't wait. I topped the Chiesel really early this morning and am trying to root it. Hopefully it pulls through. Updates soon, probably.

Pretty cool, I just found this and had to post it somewhere.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W-20W-30W-50W-Blue-554nm-Red-660nm-Hydroponic-Plant-Flood-LED-Grow-Lights-/251248529710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item3a7f94512e

Typo in the auction title, it says lower in the description 445nm Blue. Yea, it's $2/W, but how cool are these, right? If the prices get any lower it'll be hard to keep me away, I think. Judging from the pics in another thread these have AMPLE amounts of Red in them. Mixing Warm White flood lights in a 1:1 ratio with these would be kinda crazy awesome if you ask me.

Great find!

3 @ 30 + 2 @ 50 WWs in between should be a simple killer combo for up to a 4 x 4

Alright, so here's a quick update on the Chiesel/clone. Lights are off for Kid, so no pics of tomatoes quite yet.

I decided against the aspirin cloning method because...

I read aloe vera is within the same ?strain? as willow trees, or at least it has the same active ingredient. I also heard good things about this specific brand of aloe vera juice and my local Wally Martinez had it for like $8 for this 1gal jug. Just way too easy to pass up.

Anyway, this is where I started out:

Some Nitrogen issues still, but overall perky with the leaves aiming up at the light. This was within minutes of chopping.

About 24 hours later:

Okay, so a bit sad, but that's to be expected. I'm beginning to think it's got too much leaf on it, but I've left it be. I've been opening the zip lock bag and exchanging the air for some fresh CO2 whenever I can.

But today, it wasn't looking good. Big leaves still very limp, turning darker green and looking rather unhealthy. Her head was nodding down, too, she's just having difficulty holding anything up at this point.

Obviously I cut the big leaves off, tooth pic to keep her head up. Still some light green all over the place, but not looking good. I'm keeping her out of the bag for right now hoping her leaves don't dry up, but her soil has been about that moist for too long, imo. Her dirt just isn't drying out at all. Hopefully she pulls through. I've named her Misty in hopes that it inspires her to stick around a bit longer.

Anyway, onto Little Chiesel.

Lookin' good. Can't complain. Plenty of new shoots (10 in all, two are tiiiiny underneath even the first pic) to try my hand at cloning again if Misty bites the dust.


Well, that's all folks. Hopefully some news on the mixing chamber as soon as the next update on Kid. We'll see.

You need to maintain crazy humidity until she roots dawg. From what i understand that is the main factor more than anything else.

But if the dirt stays moist 24/7 you can get mold and slime and other nasties. I want the dirt to dry out a little, but you're right, in that process the larger leaves will probably dry out just as fast. I also think she might have been under a little heat stress, come to think of it. I opened the bag and the air from inside was alarmingly warm. It all seems to be a bit of give and take. Hopefully if I love her enough it'll all just work out somehow, because I can't maintain the perfect environment for her. Given that she's made it this far looking as good as she looks I'm crossing my fingers that that's a good sign. I'll be throwing her back into the zip lock bag as soon as I think the soils dry enough. We'll see I guess. Can't do much more than keep on keepin' on.

I would maybe do h2o2 solution? Ive never needed to due to climate and organic growing anyway, but from what i've read this would be the standard option?

Again, never taken cuttings, but from what i've read, you absolutely need to keep the roots moist and environment humid for rooting to take off.

There was h2o2 in the water that I gave her (and if there wasn't there's no way I'd water her again!), but air, high temps, high RH, and light sounds like a perfect storm for all sorts of problems. The tent is 77 degrees right now, but in the bag I wouldn't be surprised if it was 5 degrees warmer. Also, it's been at least a day since I watered her. That extra Oxygen atom is in all probability looong gone, it's not a stable molecule, hence the brown bottle to keep light out. Light is easily enough to knock that atom out.

I'm also growing organically, I'm using distilled water with a tiny bit of h2o2, and the aloe vera is organic (and should be sanitary). I don't have issues yet, but soil that's moist for too long is notorious for mold and/or slime. Just trying to cover all my bases.

The soil is still moist, but the leaves look peakish. I think the soils dried out enough, though, so I've put it back in the bag and hopefully the dirt/air will find a suitable equilibrium. I'll keep feeling the situation out, but if I think I need to I'll just cut the next biggest set of leaves and let the soil dry out even more. I have no problem letting her start over from scratch as long as I have two plants at the end of this process, lol.

I always take my comparatively awesome ambient (not in tent) climate for granted.

15-20 C is just for the win. I basically just do not even have to think about sanitation type issues.

Eh, it's not too bad, it's just a little cozy for cloning, I guess, just 'cause the ziplock bag tends to trap a little heat. I had the tent cooler originally, but it got warmer (86-87) for a day by accident and I actually noticed a spike in PS activity so I've actively been trying to keep it a little warmer that I had originally anticipated to. That said, once I add 100W's to the equation and the weather gets warmer... yea, I'm gonna be under water. That's something I'll have to wrestle with eventually, but not today!