manual pumping a hp aero system

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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Nice, treat it with respect as its more than capable of breaking stuff if you are too quick with the downstroke ;)
 
Seed55

Seed55

Member
Hi oxanaca just thought I'd check in as I'm in a similar situation as you and share many of the same questions. I'm currently building a gravity fed air-atomized aeroponic system and I feel like a kid on Christmas with all the different components arriving in the mail everyday! It's a bummer about the shipping on those timers too, I ordered 2 of them to soften the cost (I plan on using on for veg eventually) but I think shipping was still $18. Oh and they were much smaller than I expected :o. Anyway things are starting to come together but the current speed bump is figuring out how to power my timer, connect my 2 solenoids, and configure it to fire somewhere in the range of 1-5 seconds on and 2-10 minutes off.

I have little experience wiring thermocouples to dataloggers from college but really I have little/no idea what I'm doing when it comes to wiring. Fortunately the girlfriend and I are stopping by her grandpa's house this weekend and he'll be able to teach me how to wire everything. Old people know everything, its amazing the wealth of information this guy has... Anyway, if I learn anything I'll be sure to share it with anyone else in a similar situation.

My system is a little different from yours, though I definitely looked into a hydrostatic manual pump and liked the idea of being basically off the grid, less the timer/solenoids. I opted to buy an air compressor and test my Delavan nozzles at different heights and relatively low pressures. I opted for the lowest flow rate (model 30609-1; information not listed on any of the specs sheets I've seen, though I have the think the "1" is less than the "2" right?) and will likely keep them fed by gravity and maybe add a check valve so that the solution remains pressurized between mistings. Sorry for the rambling, I'll be starting my own thread soon with some pictures of my setup. I've been working on my 2'x2'x4' chamber all week and it's nearly complete (I stop checking the forums for a few days and it seems like dozens of new aeroheads arrive lol) . I've had some pretty radical chamber ideas over the passed several weeks but my most recent eureka moment led me back to a much simpler design with a few fundamental details: it had to be well insulated, it had to provide adequate space for ~50 micron mist to disperse (even with a massive root structure), lightweight yet stable (I wanna grow some BIG ladies), and adaptable to a variety of grow room settings (as I'm still unsure about my eventual grow space). Anyway, good luck on your system -- those mushrooms look badass :shock:
 
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oxanaca

Well-Known Member
im wondering about some thing, a lot of people on here talk about using one solenoid per nozzle, in order to avoid nozzle spit/spray as the system depressurizes.
that sounds very expensive to me as i will be using a lot of nozzles,
if i were to add a normally open solenoid and route the excess solution to a pan. would this solve my problems,
or would i still have problems with my nozzles spitting as the lines and nozzles come up to pressure.
 
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oxanaca

Well-Known Member
seed 55

sweet dude, i just put my bid in on a dental air compressor, and if i win, ill be going pressure fed AA. although i kind of hope i dont win, it seems simpler to just start hydrolic.
 
Seed55

Seed55

Member
Well I don't want to speak too soon but I did successfully run my nozzles w/ 30 psi air pressure and they were producing a very fine mist (although whenever the air flow stopped, a trickle of solution continued to pour out of the nozzles when gravity fed, I guess this is just a function of leftover pressure from gravity/venturi effect, maybe siphon fed makes more sense...). And this is my first attempt at any sort of aeroponics rig so as far as the plumbing is concerned, the setup was not too bad. In fact, I've got much fewer fittings/nozzles to worry about, lower pressure all around so I can opt for cheaper components, and my air compressor has a pressure switch, outlet pressure regulator, and built in safety valves. Each nozzle+adapter+solenoid came out to $80 and 1 of these air atomized nozzles should be capable of replacing 4-8 hydraulic cloudtop/biocontrol/etc. All in all it doesn't seem that much more expensive than an equivalent hydraulic setup, and I like working with lower pressures and larger pressure differentials (much happier with 130psi -> 30 psi vs. 130psi->100psi). There just doesn't seem to be as much [mis]information out there compared to hydraulic HP aero. ;)

It's not without its set of problems though -- the air compressor I have is loud as hell, but I was willing to make that compromise if it was good quality and capable of handling my system... and under $300. Also the compressor is configured such that when it's on, it runs until max/default pressure is achieved (145-150psi), safety valves blow slightly and pressure is stabilized, then it kicks on again as soon as the pressure dips at all. Ideally I would like a cut in pressure of 40psi if I'm running my regulated air pressure at 30psi, but I'm not sure how to achieve this. I'm guessing I can buy an external pressure switch for the system, but then I imagine I would have to somehow bypass whatever internal pressure switch on the compressor? Or I can just let it kick on every time the unregulated pressure drops a few psi. The HD employee I spoke with said that these compressors were designed to 1) operate at or near "max" pressure and 2) cycle on frequently, even though there is plenty of stored energy/pressure in the tanks. Just sharing some of air compressor concerns if anybody has any input, I think I had a pretty good understanding of diaphragm pumps and the entire hydraulic schematic but it's tough to find good info on air compressors and how to regulate all their internal components.
 
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oxanaca

Well-Known Member
im really starting to think going plain hydraulic is going to be a huge mistake, im going to have to make so many john guest connections, and buy a ton of nozzles,and solenoids.
crazily enough that nozzle package you have picked out was the exact combo im planing to buy.
 
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oxanaca

Well-Known Member
well thats that im now offically pressure fed AA, except of john guest and pex. now more waiting.
not much more to talk about ill probably start a new thread when i get my shit.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Seed55 said:
It's not without its set of problems though -- the air compressor I have is loud as hell, but I was willing to make that compromise if it was good quality and capable of handling my system... and under $300. Also the compressor is configured such that when it's on, it runs until max/default pressure is achieved (145-150psi), safety valves blow slightly and pressure is stabilized, then it kicks on again as soon as the pressure dips at all. Ideally I would like a cut in pressure of 40psi if I'm running my regulated air pressure at 30psi, but I'm not sure how to achieve this. I'm guessing I can buy an external pressure switch for the system, but then I imagine I would have to somehow bypass whatever internal pressure switch on the compressor? Or I can just let it kick on every time the unregulated pressure drops a few psi. The HD employee I spoke with said that these compressors were designed to 1) operate at or near "max" pressure and 2) cycle on frequently, even though there is plenty of stored energy/pressure in the tanks. Just sharing some of air compressor concerns if anybody has any input, I think I had a pretty good understanding of diaphragm pumps and the entire hydraulic schematic but it's tough to find good info on air compressors and how to regulate all their internal components.
Click to expand...
It`ll be hard to find a pressure switch with a large differential and an unloader. You can get around it by wiring a normally open solenoid in parallel with the pressure switch contacts. The solenoid would need to be installed in the pipework between the compressor and the tank. When the compressor switches on the solenoid closes and the tank fills. When the preset pressure is reached, the switch cuts the compressor and the solenoid opens..discharging the pressure in the pipe. If you want to kill 2 birds with one stone, install an additional water/oil trap in the same line and use the solenoid on the outlet so it drains it every time the compressor runs :)
I didnt need an unloader for my compressor so i just disconnected the original switch and added added one with a 7-bar (100psi) differential.
 
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oxanaca

Well-Known Member
got my timer sweet, ill have some thing to work on now. that diagram makes so much sense.
collectively i have 2200 ma's of current demand for my 4 solenoids so i need to find a 2500ma power supply right.
 
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oxanaca

Well-Known Member
sweet thanks for the savings.

just got my 20 gallon 150psi pressure tank, this things tiny.

do you think i should buy another exact same tank for air.
 
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oxanaca

Well-Known Member
also what does 125 max relief pressure mean. sorry for all the questions. i figure in a week ill have everything and ill post the constuction tek for all to see how im putting it together.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
oxanaca said:
sweet thanks for the savings.

just got my 20 gallon 150psi pressure tank, this things tiny.

do you think i should buy another exact same tank for air.
Click to expand...
20 gallons is about 76L, it shouldnt be that "tiny". My 100L is 18" diameter, 3ft high and weighs 50lbs empty.
You should do a bit of research in the interest of safety, steel tanks and high pressure can be potentially hazardous if you`re not clued up. An accumulator for liquid isnt the same as an air receiver. Most compressors come with a receiver, why do you need a tank for air?
125 max relief pressure means: the pressure relief valve used with the tank should operate no higher than 125psi which provides a 25psi safety margin. If you used a 150psi relief valve to match the tank it might open at 160-170psi. Relief valves arent that accurate ;)
 
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oxanaca

Well-Known Member
yeah i dont plan on so much as touching this tank until i know alot more. im aware that this thing could become a bomb.
i knew this tank wasnt ment for air, its just its been hard to find a proper air compressor tank.

the dental air compressor i purchased is just a compressor and does not have a tank or receiver attached to it.
 
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oxanaca

Well-Known Member
also im going to do the thing you said with the normally open solenoid and find a pressure switch with a wide differential and no unloader. no luck yet though all ive found so far are 250volts
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
With a manual pump you can regulate the pressure going in, with an automatic pump you have to install a relief valve in case the pressure switch fails and the pump keeps running. Its a good idea to fit a relief valve for safety sakes either way.
Modifying the compressor will take a bit of work and expense. How are your electrical and plumbing skills?
Off the top of my head you`ll need a pressure switch, a non return valve, a normally open solenoid (which has be the same voltage as the compressor), a pressure relief valve and a regulator. You might get some of these with the tank but whatever happens.. you`ll need to do some plumbing ;)
 
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