manual pumping a hp aero system

hello, so for the last few weeks i have been researching how to mix my own salts, and high pressure aeroponics.

recently i read in trichy bastards hp aero 2011 thread, and it stated that people are using manual hydraulic pumps to pressurize a pressure or accumulator tank,in lieu of an electric pump.
https://www.rollitup.org/aerogardeners/437684-true-hp-aero-2011-a.html

does anyone know where i can find a pump like this? ive tried searching for this and all ive been able to find are floor jacks and shit. not pumps for moving fluids.
i really like the idea of not using an electric pump, and instead using a large accumulator tank and manual pump, as there is less chance to have a failure due to a power outage. plus im only working with 15 amps so every watt counts

oxanaca said:

does anyone know where i can find a pump like this?

Click to expand...

I have a feeling they are talking about your every day hand pump for a bicycle tire. An accumulator has an air filled bladder in it.

it seems i had my terms are confused, didn't realize an accumulator was different from an pressure tank.

what im looking to do is pump nutrient solution into a pressure tank from a reservoir, is there any kind of pump i can buy that would be capable of doing that.
hand or foot powered preferably.

Its not a bicycle pump, its a hydrostatic test pump They`re used to pressure test plumbing, pressure vessels etc. Because they deliver low flow at high pressure they are used with an accumulator, ideally it needs to be a 16 bar (232 psi) type so you can make use of the pumps pressure. Its cheaper to use an electric pump with tanks that have lower ratings like 10 bar. This one puts out 45ml per stroke at any pressure upto 725 psi. If you buy a cheaper pump check the output specification, some only do 7ml- 12ml per stroke
You might find one cheaper than this if you look around. It must be the latest version cos it has trendy red handwheels
http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Hydrostatic_Pumps/Hand_Test_Pumps/60200r.htm

thanks a lot dude, this seems to be the pump i need

question, im worndering if ill be able to disconect this from the accumulator in my flowering system and switch it to my cloning accumulator with plain water. does this pump have some sort of quick connect?

The pump has 5ft steel reinforced hose rated at 400-bar (5800 psi) with a female 1/2" plumbing fitting on the end, prolly be NPT for you. Use a tee on the tanks and add a 1/2" inline valve to one side which will give you the male thread for the pump connection and it doubles as a tank drain. There is a seal inside the hose fitting so it doesnt have to be cranked up all that tight...5 second job.

sweet just found that same model for $200 brand new. $130 savings

question am i going to be able to run a hose into a resevoir from this pump or am i going to have to be content with filling the red box with solution.

The pump doesnt have postive suction so it has to be gravity fed. You have a couple of options,
1) use the red onboard tank which holds about 12L (3.17us gal) but bear in mind the pump wont be able to pick up the last inch or so
2) Undo the 4 bolts that fasten the pump to the red tank (all the pump components are attached to the aluminium plate) and make yourself a new mount out of 2 pieces of angle iron bolted to a sturdy timber frame (2x4`s). The combined depth of angle iron and frame wants to be at least 8-9" to provide enough room below the pump components so you can attach a hose to the intake. A 1/2" bore hose is a snug fit. Get yourself a 5 gallon bucket, plastic jerrycan or 50gal waterbutt (as required) and attach the hose to it, not forgetting to fit an inline valve so you can turn off the flow.
If you opt for the 5 gal bucket you`ll need to install a 1/2" John Guest tank/bulkhead fitting near the bottom so you can connect the hose to it. If you make the timber frame longer at the front for the res to sit on, it will act as a counterweight.
Depending where your accumulators are located you can leave the pump where it is and use a couple of valves to route the output to the right tank. Saves lugging the pump from A to B.

option one seems to be the easiest, i can just keep filling the tank with a pitcher. just ordered the pump.


two questions. do you think a 275 gallon tote chopped down to 3 feet will make a good flowering chamber. like the one set up in this thread. there basically 4X4 feet and i can get them for $50
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/352946-medium-pressure-drain-waste-aeroponic.html

also how many mister nozzles do i need in a 4x4 grow chamber? ive seen conflicting information.

youve been a lot of help dude thanks.

Looks like a 1000L ibc tank, (1m x 1.2m x 1.140m high) if you cut it in half you`d have 2 x 500L chambers. You cant pin down the nozzles to a simple number but there`s plenty of info in the thread. Once you have the nozzles sorted (number and position for full coverage) you can use the total flowrate and worst case cycle timing to figure out the ideal accumulator capacity for the job.

As an example, a system that consists of 10x 1gph nozzles running on a 1 second/2minute timing cycle could be supplied by a 10gal accumulator. Charged to 140psi it could run the system (not accounting for any losses) for 2 full days at which point you`d have 80psi in the tank. It would take around 5 minutes a day to top the pressure back to 140psi or 10 minutes every 2 days if you let the tank run until its empty. The fill time is based on 30 strokes per minute with the test pump which is a very sedate pace. The total amount of nutes pumped into the tank would be around 14.7L or 3.9 us gal.

You`ll find the limiting factor on pumping speed is dictated by the maximum working pressure of the accumulator. If you get too energetic with the pump handle you can easily generate spikes in excess of 300psi. You`ll get used to keeping an eye on the gauge when using the pump.
The optional workaround is to install a pressure regulator that can handle 25-bar on the inlet with an adjustable regulated output that matches your accumulator max working pressure, eg; 1-10bar. The only other thing i can think of is the pressure gauge on the pump has pretty big increments so its worth teeing a 160psi gauge into the line for better resolution.

I think that should keep you going for a while

alright im going to leave you alone for a week and go ahead and start assembling my cloning system. ill post pics so everyone can see my progress.

Looking forward to seeing your progress.
Final tip for now, if you plan to use a 16-bar accumulator, which is unlikely if you`re in the states due to the high cost, you can charge it upto 230psi. Using the earlier example, that would give 3 days running (230psi-80psi) from the same physical size of tank, still ~5 minutes a day or 17mins every 3 days to fill. A 0-400psi gauge with 10psi increments is good for 16-bar tanks.

alright so need some advice im thinking about buying a tank and im wondering if this would do the job. its 20 gallons 150psi. it has a 1" NPTF connection, i think the one on the pump i just ordered was 1/2inch female. i dont think this is what you call an accumulator would this work as well
http://www.aquascience.net/amtrol-pressure-tanks/index.cfm?id=502

oh shit nptf stands for fuel not female.

Its just the type of thread, no doubts there will be a 1" NPTF -1/2" NFT reducer available somewhere, ideally a reducing tee 1/2" x 1" (female for tank) x 1/2". Mike is using a similar size accumulator iirc so he may be able to advise you where to find fittings. Other than that it looks ok, pity it doesnt have a replaceable bladder but thats probably reflected in the price.
You`d be looking at around 4 days running with the example system, 30L or 7.75 us gal (80psi-140psi). Pump 5.5 minutes a day (topup) or 22 minutes every 4 days (from empty).
edit: judging by the installation kit, the tank has a 1" female connection so perhaps amtrol use their own interpretation of NPTF to designate Female. Its worth checking

been in like 5 hardware stores today, and i learned alot.

first i think im going into buy this reverse osmosis system. i will begin using it to make 30 gallons of Ro water 3 days prior to taking clones. then i can remove the pressure tank its 3 gallons.
http://www.farmandfleet.com/products/733054-ro2050_4_stage_reverse_osmosis_under_sink_system.html#.UBBopf0xj51

i will then use the tank to construct a cloning system powerful enough to support the rooting of 64 clones, which will go to a 4foot by 4foot growing cube. after taking the clones i will return the pressure tank to RO duties, and have about 5 weeks to find another pressure tank capable of 150psi for the next batch of clones, i believe this one is only 100psi.

another thing i noticed was i had problems finding anyone that knew anything about john guest fittings, is this a new thing or am i looking in the wrong stores.

You dont need a pressure tank to make ro, thats usually connected to a seperate tap/faucet so you can have ro "on tap"
I wouldnt trust an ro tank above 90psi which limits the available capacity a tad and you`ll have to go really steady with the pump to keep the pressure spikes below 100psi. If you go for 60psi (min) 90psi (max) on the 3 gal tank, you`ll get about 10hrs runtime with 10x 1gph nozzles on a 1sec/2 min cycle (assuming no losses). I doubt you`ll need 10 nozzles for a cloner so you might be able to push the lower end to 75psi instead of a meager 60psi
John Guest = speedfit or pushfit connectors, sales people havent a clue at the best of times.

JG's are certainly worth the money. Here's where I and I believe others have purchased them. http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Reverse-Osmosis-Fittings%2C-Tubing-%26-Valves/

There are similar fittings made by watts at your HW store. They should only be used in a pinch though as they aren't as quality as the JG's. I wanna say my accumulator is 1" or 1 1/4" that I reduced twice with simple pvc bushings. Not the prettiest way to go about it, but I've never had so much as a drop leak with either fitting. I use 1/4" tubing throughout, but some like to run 3/8" pre-solenoid. Not sure it would make a dif in my situation.

hey mike thanks for the link, that helps me find a bunch more parts. do you have a thread here somewhere, if not wanna tell me about your chamber, nozzles.