Living with PTSD

bob silvey

Active Member
.
A couple of years ago someone asked me if I still thought about Vietnam. I nearly laughed in their face. How do you stop thinking about it? Every day for the last forty years, I wake up with it, and go to bed with it.
But this is what I said. "Yea, I think about it. I can't quit thinking about it. I never will. But, I've also learned to live with it. I'm
comfortable with the memories. I've learned to stop trying to forget and learned instead to embrace it. It just doesn't scare me anymore."
A psychologist once told me that NOT being affected by the experience over there would be abnormal. When he told me that, it was like he'd just given me a pardon. It was as if he said, "Go ahead and feel something about the
place, Bob. It ain't going nowhere. You're gonna wear it for the rest of your life. Might as well get to know it."
A lot of my "brothers" haven't been so lucky. For them the memories are too painful, their sense of loss too great. My sister told me of a friend she has whose husband was in the Nam. She asks this guy when he was there.
Here's what he said, "Just last night." It took my sister a while to figure out what he was talking about. JUST LAST NIGHT. Yeah I was in the Nam. When? JUST LAST NIGHT. During sex with my wife. And on my way to work
this morning. Over my lunch hour. Yeah, I was there.
My sister says I'm not the same brother that went to Vietnam. My wife says I won't let people get close to me, not even her. They are probably both right.
Ask a vet about making friends in Nam. It was risky. Why? Because we were in the business of death, and death was with us all the time. It wasn't the death of, "If I die before I wake." This was the real thing. The kind where boys scream for their mothers. The kind that lingers in your mind and becomes more real each time you cheat it. You don't want to make a lot of
friends when the possibility of dying is that real, that close. When you do, friends become a liability.
A guy named Bob Flanigan was my friend. Bob Flanigan is dead. I put him in a body bag one sunny day, April 29, 1969. We'd been talking, only a few minutes before he was shot, about what we were going to do when we got back
in the world. Now, this was a guy who had come in country the same time as myself. A guy who was loveable and generous. He had blue eyes and sandy blond hair.
When he talked, it was with a soft drawl. Flanigan was a hick and he knew it. That was part of his charm. He didn't care. Man, I loved this guy like the brother I never had. But, I screwed up. I got too close to him. Maybe I didn't know any better. But I broke one of the unwritten rules of war.
DON'T GET CLOSE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO DIE. Sometimes you can't help it.
You hear vets use the term "buddy" when they refer to a guy they spent the war with. "Me and this buddy of mine . . "
"Friend" sounds too intimate, doesn't it. "Friend" calls up images of being close. If he's a friend, then you are going to be hurt if he dies, and war hurts enough without adding to the pain. Get close; get hurt. It's as simple as that.
In war you learn to keep people at that distance my wife talks about. You become so good at it, that forty years after the war, you still do it without thinking. You won't allow yourself to be vulnerable again.
My wife knows one person who can get into the soft spots inside me. My daughter. I know it probably bothers her that she can do this. It's not that I don't love my wife, I do. She's put up with a lot from me. She'll tell you that when she signed on for better or worse she had no idea there was going to be so much of the latter. But with my daughters it's
different.
My girl is mine. She'll always be my kid. Not marriage, not distance, not even death can change that. They are something on this earth that can never be taken away from me. I belong to them. Nothing can change that.
I can have an ex-wife; but my girl can never have an ex-father. There's the difference.
I can still see the faces, though they all seem to have the same eyes. When I think of us I always see a line of "dirty grunts" sitting on a paddy dike. We're caught in the first gray silver between darkness and light. That
first moment when we know we've survived another night, and the business of staying alive for one more day is about to begin. There was so much hope in that brief space of time. It's what we used to pray for. "One more day,
God. One more day."
And I can hear our conversatioins as if they'd only just been spoken. I still hear the way we sounded, the hard cynical jokes, our morbid senses of humor. We were scared to death of dying, and trying our best not to show it.
I recall the smells, too. Like the way cordite hangs on the air after a fire-fight. Or the pungent odor of rice paddy mud. So different from the black dirt of Kentucky. The mud of Nam smells ancient, somehow. Like it's always been there. And I'll never forget the way blood smells, slick and drying on my hands. I spent a long night that way once. That memory isn't going anywhere.
I remember how the night jungle appears almost dream-like as the pilot of a Cessna buzzes overhead, dropping parachute flares until morning. That artifical sun would flicker and make shadows run through the jungle. It was worse than not being able to see what was out there sometimes. I remember once looking at the man next to me as a flare floated overhead. The shadows around his eyes were so deep that it looked like his eyes were gone. I reached over and touched him on the arm; without looking at me he touched my hand. "I know man. I know." That's what he said. It was a human moment. Two guys a long way from home and scared sh"tless.
"I know man." And at that moment he did.
God I loved those guys. I hurt every time one of them died. We all did. Despite our posturing. Despite our desire to stay disconnected, we couldn't help ourselves. I know why Tim O'Brien writes his stories. I know what
gives Bruce Weigle the words to create poems so honest I cry at their horrible beauty. It's love. Love for those guys we shared the experience with.
We did our jobs like good soldiers, and we tried our best not to become as hard as our surroundings. We touched each other and said, "I know." Like a mother holding a child in the middle of a nightmare, "It's going to be all
right." We tried not to lose touch with our humanity. We tried to walk that line. To be the good boys our parents had raised and not to give into that unnamed thing we knew was inside us all.
You want to know what frightening is? It's a nineteen-year-old-boy who's had a sip of that power over life and death that war gives you. It's a boy who, despite all the things he's been taught, knows that he likes it. It's a nineteen-year-old who's just lost a friend, and is angry and scared and, determined that, "Some *@#*s gonna pay." To this day, the thought of that
boy can wake me from a sound sleep and leave me staring at the ceiling.
As I write this, I have a picture in front of me. It's of two young men. On their laps are tablets. One is smoking a cigarette. Both stare without expression at the camera. They're writing letters. Staying in touch with places they would rather be. Places and people they hope to see again.
The picture shares space in a frame with one of my wife. She doesn't mind. She knows she's been included in special company. She knows I'll always love those guys who shared that part of my life, a part she never can. And she understands how I feel about the ones I know are out there yet. The ones who still answer the question, "When were you in Vietnam?"
"Hey, man. I was there just last night."
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
I think your post means you feel you need to talk to people about this still, but aren't getting it out enough and it boils over destroying your life still to this day.

Not preaching to you or pretending to know where you come from, but maybe you should look into joining a support group with all the younger veterans coming from Iraq and Afghanistan or if there isn't one in your area, creating one yourself. Your experiences and maturity and how you deal with it could greatly help the younger generation now facing the same issues and in helping others you will probably find it helps youself.

I have no idea how PTSD works or how to cure it, I'm merely suggesting something that might help you and others, even if it does nothing to stop the symptoms of PTSD maybe it would just give you something to feel good about by helping others and give you an outlet better than posting on here.



I hope you get support and counseling from the VA or whatever.
 

old pothead

Well-Known Member
I think your post means you feel you need to talk to people about this still, but aren't getting it out enough and it boils over destroying your life still to this day.

Not preaching to you or pretending to know where you come from, but maybe you should look into joining a support group with all the younger veterans coming from Iraq and Afghanistan or if there isn't one in your area, creating one yourself. Your experiences and maturity and how you deal with it could greatly help the younger generation now facing the same issues and in helping others you will probably find it helps youself.

I have no idea how PTSD works or how to cure it, I'm merely suggesting something that might help you and others, even if it does nothing to stop the symptoms of PTSD maybe it would just give you something to feel good about by helping others and give you an outlet better than posting on here.



I hope you get support and counseling from the VA or whatever.
For the rest of his story go here,too bad you did not read it first before telling him to get help.OPH
https://www.rollitup.org/introduce-yourself/153807-my-personal-story.html
 

mastakoosh

Well-Known Member
well written, like an excerpt from a book. i wish the best for you, dealing with your troubles. i think the outlet of writing is therapeutic at times.
 

Inneedofbuds

Well-Known Member
"We tried not to lose touch with our humanity. We tried to walk that line. To be the good boys our parents had raised and not to give into that unnamed thing we knew was inside us all.
You want to know what frightening is? It's a nineteen-year-old-boy who's had a sip of that power over life and death that war gives you. It's a boy who, despite all the things he's been taught, knows that he likes it. It's a nineteen-year-old who's just lost a friend, and is angry and scared and, determined that, "Some *@#*s gonna pay." To this day, the thought of that
boy can wake me from a sound sleep and leave me staring at the ceiling."


Damn that was powerful. Thanks for sharing. God willing, I'll never be able to relate to that experience, but you have my sympathies and gratitude.
 

GrowTech

stays relevant.
Mad respect to you my friend... My father was a Vietnam vet (Army) who died less than a week ago... He got ALS (Lou Gherrigs disease) and was never given good care by the VA hospital down here.

Anyways, in the middle of cleaning out his belongings I stumbled across a number of books about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and it appears that he suffered from it. He too saw a lot of really fucked up things happen while he was on duty... So in hindsight as I look back towards my fathers personality, and him as a child I can clearly see how crazy things were... and have a fair understanding of what you're going through.


It's good to see that you've learned to deal with the problems...

Welcome to the forums.
 

bob silvey

Active Member
PTSD is one of those things that crosses into all walks of life and situations. It doesn't have to be a war. Rape, accidental death, even seeing something very traumatic on TV will hurt some. I use it as a tool to let others know that they are not crazy for having strong emotions in certain situations. especilly in today's society when there is so much violence there is a ton of it going around. I have a support group for returning vets from Iraq/afghanistan who have been in the shit to talk them through the ugliness and help them re-learn the beauty and love that is here.
the VA is famous for sweeping it under the rug. When I got back, I was diagnosed as having acute anxiety because it had never been heard of.
Later we realized what it was but the damage never ever goes away. A certain sound, (choppers for me), smell, (hot summer days/blood), sights, anything can trigger it. We all need to be aware and with so many returning vets. they never exhibit the damn stuff for years even. I also suffer from Hep C from starting lines on people and I actually will see faces of those I worked on. So sad that your dad was not recognized for it. Those are the real heroes who have lived it and stuffed the feelings forever.
thank you and all my love from KY.
Bob
You will be hurting for a long time from this loss so call if needed. My number is in my profile and I keep my cell phone with me.
 

bob silvey

Active Member
Thanks Abnjm,
No I really just sit from time to time and write down things that pop into my head or see. I do have many notebooks that I have voiced my thoughts in and keep them hidden from my wife. (She is nosy!) LOL. I have always thought the power of words is better than violence. I just try to be clear and direct in what I say and when I say something I mean it. I always speak and write from the heart. I fought and bled for this country and want others to have the freedoms that I see being eroded because of apathy. I think we have become a society that is sometimes content to let others do things we are unable or don't wish to fool with. When my father died some years back, I was amazed at some of the things he had given up to enlist in WWII. He was in his senior year at Univ of Cincinnatti as a Civil Engineer Major and dropped out immediately and joined the US Army Air Force and was on a glider that went into Burma and helped construct the Burma Road. He spent two years in that place and believe me from his diary it was horrible. But he always found the beauty and good side to things. A lot of things I have not read because they were letters to my mom who is also deceased and I thought they were too personal for me and his privacy was one of those things he really believed in and so I do also. I always believe that if you can touch one person and help them with an issue, you have done something most never experience. Us hillbilly's are very conservative but also libertarian in our thinking.
 

Abnjm

Well-Known Member
Thanks Abnjm,
No I really just sit from time to time and write down things that pop into my head.


http://www.icvmc.com/contacts.htm


"I WAS THERE LAST NIGHT..."
By Robert Clark
A couple of years ago someone asked me if I still thought about Vietnam. I
nearly laughed in their face. How do you stop thinking about it? Every day
for the last twenty-four years, I wake up with it, and go to bed with it.

But this is what I said. "Yea, I think about it. I can't quit thinking about
it. I never will. But, I've also learned to live with it. I'm comfortable with
the memories. I've learned to stop trying to forget and learned instead to
embrace it. It just doesn't scare me anymore."

A psychologist once told me that NOT being affected by the experience over
there would be abnormal. When he told me that, it was like he'd just given
me a pardon. It was as if he said, "Go ahead and feel something about the
place, Bob. It ain't going nowhere. You're gonna wear it for the rest of your
life. Might as well get to know it."

A lot of my "brothers" haven't been so lucky. For them the memories are too
painful, their sense of loss too great. My sister told me of a friend she
has whose husband was in the Nam. She asks this guy when he was there. Here's
what he said, "Just last night." It took my sister a while to figure out
what he was talking about. JUST LAST NIGHT. Yeah I was in the Nam.

When? JUST LAST NIGHT. During sex with my wife. And on my way to work
this morning. Over my lunch hour. Yeah, I was there.
My sister says I'm not the same brother that went to Vietnam. My wife
says I won't let people get close to me, not even her. They are probably both right.

Ask a vet about making friends in Nam. It was risky. Why? Because we were
in the business of death, and death was with us all the time. It wasn't the
death of, "If I die before I wake." This was the real thing. The kind where
boys scream for their mothers. The kind that lingers in your mind and
becomes more real each time you cheat it. You don't want to make a lot of friends
when the possibility of dying is that real, that close. When you do, friends
become a liability.

A guy named Bob Flannigan was my friend. Bob Flannigan is dead. I put him in
a body bag one sunny day, April 29, 1969. We'd been talking, only a few
minutes before he was shot, about what we were going to do when we got back
in the world. Now, this was a guy who had come in country the same time as myself.
A guy who was loveable and generous. He had blue eyes and sandy blond hair.
When he talked, it was with a soft drawl. Flannigan was a hick and he knew
it. That was part of his charm. He didn't care. Man, I loved this guy like the
brother I never had. But, I screwed up. I got too close to him. Maybe I
didn't know any better. But I broke one of the unwritten rules of war.

DON'T GET CLOSE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO DIE.

Sometimes you can't help it.

You hear vets use the term "buddy" when they refer to a guy they spent the
war with. "Me and this buddy a mine . . "

"Friend" sounds too intimate, doesn't it. "Friend" calls up images of being
close. If he's a friend, then you are going to be hurt if he dies, and war
hurts enough without adding to the pain. Get close; get hurt. It's as simple as that.

In war you learn to keep people at that distance my wife talks about. You
become so good at it, that twenty years after the war, you still do it without
thinking. You won't allow yourself to be vulnerable again.

My wife knows two people who can get into the soft spots inside me. My
daughters. I know it probably bothers her that they can do this. It's not
that I don't love my wife, I do. She's put up with a lot from me. She'll tell you
that when she signed on for better or worse she had no idea there was going
to be so much of the latter. But with my daughters it's different.

My girls are mine. They'll always be my kids. Not marriage, not distance,
not even death can change that. They are something on this earth that can
never be taken away from me. I belong to them. Nothing can change that.

I can have an ex-wife; but my girls can never have an ex-father. There's
the difference.

I can still see the faces, though they all seem to have the same eyes. When
I think of us I always see a line of "dirty grunts" sitting on a paddy
dike. We're caught in the first gray silver between darkness and light. That
first moment when we know we've survived another night, and the business of
staying alive for one more day is about to begin. There was so much hope in
that brief space of time. It's what we used to pray for. "One more day, God.
One more day."

And I can hear our conversations as if they'd only just been spoken. I
still hear the way we sounded, the hard cynical jokes, our morbid senses of
humor. We were scared to death of dying, and trying our best not to show it.

I recall the smells, too. Like the way cordite hangs on the air after a
fire-fight. Or the pungent odor of rice paddy mud. So different from the
black dirt of Iowa. The mud of Nam smells ancient, somehow. Like it's always
been there. And I'll never forget the way blood smells, stick and drying on my
hands. I spent a long night that way once. That memory isn't going
anywhere.

I remember how the night jungle appears almost dream like as the pilot of a
Cessna buzzes overhead, dropping parachute flares until morning. That
artifical sun would flicker and make shadows run through the jungle. It was
worse than not being able to see what was out there sometimes. I remember once
looking at the man next to me as a flare floated overhead. The shadows
around his eyes were so deep that it looked like his eyes were gone. I reached over
and touched him on the arm; without looking at me he touched my hand. "I know
man. I know." That's what he said. It was a human moment. Two guys a long way
from home and scared shitless. "I know man." And at that moment he did.

God I loved those guys. I hurt every time one of them died. We all did.
Despite our posturing. Despite our desire to stay disconnected, we couldn't
help ourselves. I know why Tim O'Brien writes his stories. I know what gives
Bruce Weigle the words to create poems so honest I cry at their horrible beauty.
It's love. Love for those guys we shared the experience with.

We did our jobs like good soldiers, and we tried our best not to become as
hard as our surroundings. We touched each other and said, "I know." Like a
mother holding a child in the middle of a nightmare, "It's going to be all
right." We tried not to lose touch with our humanity. We tried to walk that line.
To be the good boys our parents had raised and not to give into
that unnamed thing we knew was inside us all.

You want to know what frightening is? It's a nineteen-year-old-boy who's had
a sip of that power over life and death that war gives you. It's a boy who,
despite all the things he's been taught, knows that he likes it. It's a
nineteen-year-old who's just lost a friend, and is angry and scared and,
determined that, "Some asshole is gonna pay." To this day, the thought of
that boy can wake me from a sound sleep and leave me staring at the ceiling.

As I write this, I have a picture in front of me. It's of two young men. On
their laps are tablets. One is smoking a cigarette. Both stare without
expression at the camera. They're writing letters. Staying in touch with
places they would rather be. Places and people they hope to see again.

The picture shares space in a frame with one of my wife. She doesn't mind.
She knows she's been included in special company. She knows I'll always
love those guys who shared that part of my life, a part she never can. And she
understands how I feel about the ones I know are out there yet.

The ones who still answer the question, "When were you in Vietnam?" with
"Hey, man. I was there just last night."
 

buffalosoulja

Well-Known Member
Thank you for your service Bob.

I know too well the ills PTSD can have on ones life. I have had PTSD for around 5 years now after being shot it Iraq. After taking meds, and therapy I have decided to go at it alone. Meds did nothing but complicate things more. Therapy is a crock cuz I do not undeerstand how "sharing" can help.

Any advice you ca give Bob will be much appreciated.

Does it ever go away?

:joint:
 

Rotten Egg

Active Member
PTSD is one of those things man...ive had it for about 3 years...im just glad that my injuries allowed me to get my MMJ card and allow me a outlet in a way
 

bob silvey

Active Member
I think one of the best things I ever saw was on the latrine board on a FB somewhere and it went:

God, this is the beginning of a new day, You have given me this day to use as I wish. I can waste it or use it for good, what I do today is important because I'm exchanging a day of my life for it.
When tomorrow comes this day will be gone forever, leaving in it's place something I have traded for it,
I want it to be gain, not loss, good, , not evil, success not failure, in order that I will not regret the price I have paid for it. Anon

I would venture to say he had dysentary!
 

bob silvey

Active Member
I don't know if I mentioned it but I have a site for returning vets and chronic pain patients and if anyone needs info on benefits for vets let me know. I have been keeping copies of all the changes in VA policies for several years. I have a couple of very good info site that will help. Welcome to all to inquire. That is what it is all about.

I dug around some and this is one of the better VA benefit sites. It is a watchdog agency and is always updated so it will help with any that have issues with them. the site is: http://www.vawatchdog.org/
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
PTSD is one of those things that crosses into all walks of life and situations. It doesn't have to be a war. Rape, accidental death, even seeing something very traumatic on TV will hurt some. I use it as a tool to let others know that they are not crazy for having strong emotions in certain situations. especilly in today's society when there is so much violence there is a ton of it going around.
True that,i feel for everybody who suffers daily with PTSD,my wife & I both suffer deeply from it daily,our life changing experience was the death of one of our sons.

My wife belongs to a support group & that helps her quite a bit,she was seriously suicidal for about 10 years & damm near succeded which left her in a coma for a short time,after she woke & got healthy again we all learned she needed an outlet for the suffering & we all joined the group,being in her group helps her alot,its been allmost 20 years now & my wife still attends therapy & group meetings for parents that lost adult children,the therapy is what keeps her going,me im the kinda guy that eats it & holds it all in unless im talking with her alone but there isnt a day that goes by where i dont feel the loss.

Even though i was old enough to go to Veitnam i lucked out & did not have to go due to a prior prison sentance,ive often wondered if i would have been man enough to go had they drafted me,when i think about how lucky i got by not having to fight a war my inner thoughts tell me i'd of booked to Canada & been a draft dodger,i dont think i coulda mustered up the courage to go.

My hats off to all you guys who did go to war & the ones who still serve & fight our current wars,there is no more noble gift a man can give to his fellow countrymen than serving in the armed forces in times of war.

Traumatic stress is a mother fucker & anybody who suffers from it has my sympathy because i know how deeply it cuts you.
 
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