Leaf tips curling up and dying-pics

doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
I can't say for sure.Maybe if you got most of the old dirt off of the roots.Then they're gonna look worse at least for a little while as they get established in their new medium.How big are your pots?
Click to expand...
I am in 2 gallon pots right now and am going up to 5 gallon pots. I've never had transplant shock but this is my first grow with white widow and I'm definitely getting a few surprises. I like using the Fox Farms soils because I have always gotten good results with them before. I need to get this dealt with quickly because I had planned to take some cuttings from each plant, transplant and start flowering here in the next week or 2. I definitely can't start flowering with my plants having these problems. I tend to be too conservative with nutes at times because I've had lockout before and I don't want to repeat it. I think maybe I was a little conservative with the cal-mag because it shouldn't have screwed anything up with just three 1/2 strength doses. I was just shocked to see them looking worse after I just gave them 1/2 strength cal-mag and 1/4 strenght grow big for the first time. I'm not to concerned about the Phosphorus def. because the transplant will give them a boost of it. The mag thing is just weird though. I'm going to the store to fill my jugs (arrrrrrgh) in preperation for a flush.
 
Stoney McFried

Stoney McFried

Well-Known Member
Keep me updated. I bet the flush will help you.Let them go a few days,just like a normal watering schedule,and assess what's up.If they seem to be ok,and the def. hasn't spread, I'd try a transplant, water them into the new soil,then wait a little more to see if they correct themselves.Then, if there's still a def.,try epson salts. When my plant had its def, it was quite young, and it spread very rapidly.https://www.rollitup.org/2178567-post76.html
doc111 said:
I am in 2 gallon pots right now and am going up to 5 gallon pots. I've never had transplant shock but this is my first grow with white widow and I'm definitely getting a few surprises. I like using the Fox Farms soils because I have always gotten good results with them before. I need to get this dealt with quickly because I had planned to take some cuttings from each plant, transplant and start flowering here in the next week or 2. I definitely can't start flowering with my plants having these problems. I tend to be too conservative with nutes at times because I've had lockout before and I don't want to repeat it. I think maybe I was a little conservative with the cal-mag because it shouldn't have screwed anything up with just three 1/2 strength doses. I was just shocked to see them looking worse after I just gave them 1/2 strength cal-mag and 1/4 strenght grow big for the first time. I'm not to concerned about the Phosphorus def. because the transplant will give them a boost of it. The mag thing is just weird though. I'm going to the store to fill my jugs (arrrrrrgh) in preperation for a flush.
Click to expand...
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Stoney McFried said:
Keep me updated. I bet the flush will help you.Let them go a few days,just like a normal watering schedule,and assess what's up.If they seem to be ok,and the def. hasn't spread, I'd try a transplant, water them into the new soil,then wait a little more to see if they correct themselves.Then, if there's still a def.,try epson salts. When my plant had its def, it was quite young, and it spread very rapidly.https://www.rollitup.org/2178567-post76.html
Click to expand...
O.K. will do and thanks again.
 
LUDACRIS

LUDACRIS

New Member
doc111 said:
I know it's not an accurate way to test pH but I wanted to see what I got. My soil pH is testing around 6.8 and I was curious why my runoff is so acidic when I've only fed once.
Click to expand...

the ph run of test will always have a much lower reading than the actuall ph of the soil.

LUDA.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
LUDACRIS said:
the ph run of test will always have a much lower reading than the actuall ph of the soil.

LUDA.
Click to expand...
I know about the runoff. I was just curious what it would be since I have only fed them once. My soil pH is rock solid 6.8 and I make sure my water is 6.3-6.8. I've never had these issues until dealing with these white widows. Are they really that sensitive to pH fluctuation?
 
jberry

jberry

Well-Known Member
my guess is too much cal mag is causing a mag lock out, the suggested dose on almost all cal/mag products is way to high even if you are using RO water.

if you have a tds meter than add the ro water to your rez, and then add 150-250 ppm of cal/mag (use less when the plants are smaller/younger), then add all your base nutes and additives.

if u add to much calcium too early in life than it can cause a grip of problems.

and also when u get deeper into flowering,... mixing high levels of calcium and potassium will cause the nutrient mix to cloud in a bad way fyi... and always add the cal/mag first to avoid potential chemical reactions, (usually only happens with a really high npk nutrients).

calcium will increase weight and density when givin a steady consistant low dose.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
jberry said:
my guess is too much cal mag is causing a mag lock out, the suggested dose on almost all cal/mag products is way to high even if you are using RO water.

if you have a tds meter than add the ro water to your rez, and then add 150-250 ppm of cal/mag (use less when the plants are smaller/younger), then add all your base nutes and additives.

if u add to much calcium too early in life than it can cause a grip of problems.

and also when u get deeper into flowering,... mixing high levels of calcium and potassium will cause the nutrient mix to cloud in a bad way fyi... and always add the cal/mag first to avoid potential chemical reactions, (usually only happens with a really high npk nutrients).

calcium will increase weight and density when givin a steady consistant low dose.
Click to expand...
I've only given 3 half strength doses. And I'm in soil not hydro.
 
jberry

jberry

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
I've only given 3 half strength doses. And I'm in soil not hydro.
Click to expand...
most cal/mag labels say 5-10 ml per gal... what are you using?

the ppm route is really the safest way to go, ive had the same exact problems your having.

but you are right the soil should be much more forgiving... i still believe the cal. is locking out the mag., but my second guess would be PH.
 
THE PIRATE

THE PIRATE

New Member
What is PH?

pH is defined in chemistry in several ways. An acid is sometimes defined as a solution with the potential to donate a Hydrogen ion (H<sup>+</sup>, also called a proton), or to accept a Hydroxide Ion (OH<sup>-</sup>) from a base. A base on the other hand is sometimes defined as a solution with ability to donate a Hydroxide Ion, or... you've guessed it, accept a Hydrogen ion. Low pH corresponds to a high hydrogen ion concentration and vice versa, while a high pH corresponds to a high Hydroxide ion concentration and vice versa.

Why is pH important when growing a plant?

Any substance that is going to be used to support any form of life has to fall within a certain range on the pH scale. The range may vary from organism to organism. Marijuana is no different. The soil, nutrient solutions and water all need to be monitored and adjusted to stay within a specific range, depending on your method of growing. When growing Marijuana in soil, the soil and water supply should stay within the range of 6.5 to 7.0, while in hydroponics the nutrient solution should stay within the range of 5.5 and 6.0.
When a plant's soil or nutrient solution becomes too basic the nutrients become unavailable to be absorbed by the roots. When the soil or nutrient solution becomes too acidic the acid salts will chemically bind together the available nutrients and they will be nonabsorbent by the roots. When this happens the plant will show tell-tale signs of stress. Some novice growers and even a few seasoned growers will falsely think they need to add more nutes or fert, which only compounds the problem by usually causing toxic salt build-up. Toxic salt build-up stops the roots from absorbing water. So remember as a rule of thumb to always test the pH before reducing or increasing a fert or nute dosage!
The pH of your soil or hydroponics setup can be measured with a simple 20$ or 30$ pH Tester, or small one time paper tests. These are highly recommended when growing any plant.

Some things to remember when using an electronic pH tester

1. Clean the probes of the meter after each test and wipe away any corrosion.
2. Pack the soil tightly around the probes.
3. Water soil with distilled or neutral pH water (7.0) before testing.
4. The meters measure the electrical current between two probes and are
designed to work in moist soil. If the soil is dry, the probes do not give
an accurate reading

What causes fluctuations in pH?

When growing in soil any fertilizer you use can cause an excess build up of salts when it decomposes in the soil. This almost always results in a more acidic soil which stunts the plant's growth and causes brown foliage. When using a Hydroponics set-up the nutrient solution can very easily cause a fluctuation in the growing reservoir. Other common reasons as to why soil may become too acidic when doing outdoor grows are rainfall, leaching, organic matter decay and a previous harvest of a high yeild crop in the same soil. In dry climates, such as the desert Southwest US, Spain, Australia, etc., irrigation water is often alkaline with a pH above 7. The water in rainy climates, such as the Pacific Northwest of North America, the UK, Netherlands and Northern Europe, is often acidic with a pH below 6. Lightly sandy soils with little clay and organic matter are quicker too become more acidic. Another common mistake is that a grower will mix his soil unevenly, leading to "hot spots" in the growing medium, so mix all ratios as well as you can.

How do I raise/lower my pH?

A great way to regulate the pH of your soil is to use Dolomite Lime(calcium-magnesium carbonate). While growing Cannabis plants in containers, mix one cup of fine dolomite lime for each cubic foot of soil, then lightly water it. After watering, mix it once more and wait a day or two before checking the pH. While growing in an outdoor garden, follow the dolomite lime manufacturers instructions. Dolomite Lime works well because it has a neutral pH rating of 7.0 and tends to keep the soil a constant pH throughout the entire life cycle of the plant. This is a highly recommended method of regulating your soil pH.
If you find the pH of your soil or Hydroponic reservoir to be too acidic or basic you could add either pH up or pH down. These are chemicals sold at places like Home Depot or any Gardening store. They usually come in one liter bottles and are to be diluted in the water used to water the soil growing plants or the Hydroponic reservoir according to directions on the packaging.

Some examples of Home remedies to raise/lower pH are as follows:
1.Lemon juice. 1/4 tbsp can bring a gallon of tap-water from 7.4 to 6.3.
2.Phosphoric acid. lowers pH and provides Phosphor too!
3.Nitric acid. lowers pH.
4.Hydrochloric acid. strongest way to lower pH
5.Hydrated lime. flush soil with a teaspoon per gallon of water to raise pH.
6.Baking Soda. eats acids to raise pH.
7.Calcium carbonate. raises pH (very strong)
8.Potassium silicate. raises pH.

What are signs of a PH fluctuation in my Cannabis plant?

A Cannabis plant can show signs of a pH flux in several ways. The leaves may begin to turn yellow or brown, dry up and/or shrivel on the sides into a straw like shape. Keep in mind however that other deficiencies and disorders may show the same signs of damage, so don't jump to conclusions until you do some testing and adjusting to your plants and their growing medium.

Some things to remember(I didn't write these ones)

1.Always test the pH of raw water and drainage water with a pH meter.
2.Raw water pH above 6.0 helps keep fertilizer mixes from becoming too acidic.
3.The pH level is much more important in organic soil gardens than in chemical
hydroponic gardens. The pH dictates the environment of bacteria necessary to the
uptake of organic nutrients.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
jberry said:
most cal/mag labels say 5-10 ml per gal... what are you using?

the ppm route is really the safest way to go, ive had the same exact problems your having.

but you are right the soil should be much more forgiving... i still believe the cal. is locking out the mag., but my second guess would be PH.
Click to expand...
I used 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water of cal-mag. I think that's like 2.5 ml per gallon. Practically none. I wonder if I just haven't given it enough.
 
LUDACRIS

LUDACRIS

New Member
doc111 said:
I know about the runoff. I was just curious what it would be since I have only fed them once. My soil pH is rock solid 6.8 and I make sure my water is 6.3-6.8. I've never had these issues until dealing with these white widows. Are they really that sensitive to pH fluctuation?
Click to expand...
doc111 said:
I used 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water of cal-mag. I think that's like 2.5 ml per gallon. Practically none. I wonder if I just haven't given it enough.
Click to expand...

dont feed them anything else for now(just water 7.0ph) untill you know what the problem is.
throwing more nutes and anything else at them will probably end up with you adding fuel to the fire.
and it does not matter about the strain(white widow)they are all the same when it comes to growing them.
(nothing to do with white widow strain).
i never check my ph anymore (no need if you are repeating the same thing and using the same products).
seed strains have nothing to do with it.

CHRIS.
:roll:
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
LUDACRIS said:
dont feed them anything else for now(just water 7.0ph) untill you know what the problem is.
throwing more nutes and anything else at them will probably end up with you adding fuel to the fire.
and it does not matter about the strain(white widow)they are all the same when it comes to growing them.
(nothing to do with white widow strain).
i never check my ph anymore (no need if you are repeating the same thing and using the same products).
seed strains have nothing to do with it.

CHRIS.
:roll:
Click to expand...
I plan on transplanting soon. I wonder if that would help.
 
LUDACRIS

LUDACRIS

New Member
THE PIRATE said:
What is PH?

pH is defined in chemistry in several ways. An acid is sometimes defined as a solution with the potential to donate a Hydrogen ion (H<sup>+</sup>, also called a proton), or to accept a Hydroxide Ion (OH<sup>-</sup>) from a base. A base on the other hand is sometimes defined as a solution with ability to donate a Hydroxide Ion, or... you've guessed it, accept a Hydrogen ion. Low pH corresponds to a high hydrogen ion concentration and vice versa, while a high pH corresponds to a high Hydroxide ion concentration and vice versa.

Why is pH important when growing a plant?

Any substance that is going to be used to support any form of life has to fall within a certain range on the pH scale. The range may vary from organism to organism. Marijuana is no different. The soil, nutrient solutions and water all need to be monitored and adjusted to stay within a specific range, depending on your method of growing. When growing Marijuana in soil, the soil and water supply should stay within the range of 6.5 to 7.0, while in hydroponics the nutrient solution should stay within the range of 5.5 and 6.0.
When a plant's soil or nutrient solution becomes too basic the nutrients become unavailable to be absorbed by the roots. When the soil or nutrient solution becomes too acidic the acid salts will chemically bind together the available nutrients and they will be nonabsorbent by the roots. When this happens the plant will show tell-tale signs of stress. Some novice growers and even a few seasoned growers will falsely think they need to add more nutes or fert, which only compounds the problem by usually causing toxic salt build-up. Toxic salt build-up stops the roots from absorbing water. So remember as a rule of thumb to always test the pH before reducing or increasing a fert or nute dosage!
The pH of your soil or hydroponics setup can be measured with a simple 20$ or 30$ pH Tester, or small one time paper tests. These are highly recommended when growing any plant.

Some things to remember when using an electronic pH tester

1. Clean the probes of the meter after each test and wipe away any corrosion.
2. Pack the soil tightly around the probes.
3. Water soil with distilled or neutral pH water (7.0) before testing.
4. The meters measure the electrical current between two probes and are
designed to work in moist soil. If the soil is dry, the probes do not give
an accurate reading

What causes fluctuations in pH?

When growing in soil any fertilizer you use can cause an excess build up of salts when it decomposes in the soil. This almost always results in a more acidic soil which stunts the plant's growth and causes brown foliage. When using a Hydroponics set-up the nutrient solution can very easily cause a fluctuation in the growing reservoir. Other common reasons as to why soil may become too acidic when doing outdoor grows are rainfall, leaching, organic matter decay and a previous harvest of a high yeild crop in the same soil. In dry climates, such as the desert Southwest US, Spain, Australia, etc., irrigation water is often alkaline with a pH above 7. The water in rainy climates, such as the Pacific Northwest of North America, the UK, Netherlands and Northern Europe, is often acidic with a pH below 6. Lightly sandy soils with little clay and organic matter are quicker too become more acidic. Another common mistake is that a grower will mix his soil unevenly, leading to "hot spots" in the growing medium, so mix all ratios as well as you can.

How do I raise/lower my pH?

A great way to regulate the pH of your soil is to use Dolomite Lime(calcium-magnesium carbonate). While growing Cannabis plants in containers, mix one cup of fine dolomite lime for each cubic foot of soil, then lightly water it. After watering, mix it once more and wait a day or two before checking the pH. While growing in an outdoor garden, follow the dolomite lime manufacturers instructions. Dolomite Lime works well because it has a neutral pH rating of 7.0 and tends to keep the soil a constant pH throughout the entire life cycle of the plant. This is a highly recommended method of regulating your soil pH.
If you find the pH of your soil or Hydroponic reservoir to be too acidic or basic you could add either pH up or pH down. These are chemicals sold at places like Home Depot or any Gardening store. They usually come in one liter bottles and are to be diluted in the water used to water the soil growing plants or the Hydroponic reservoir according to directions on the packaging.

Some examples of Home remedies to raise/lower pH are as follows:
1.Lemon juice. 1/4 tbsp can bring a gallon of tap-water from 7.4 to 6.3.
2.Phosphoric acid. lowers pH and provides Phosphor too!
3.Nitric acid. lowers pH.
4.Hydrochloric acid. strongest way to lower pH
5.Hydrated lime. flush soil with a teaspoon per gallon of water to raise pH.
6.Baking Soda. eats acids to raise pH.
7.Calcium carbonate. raises pH (very strong)
8.Potassium silicate. raises pH.

What are signs of a PH fluctuation in my Cannabis plant?

A Cannabis plant can show signs of a pH flux in several ways. The leaves may begin to turn yellow or brown, dry up and/or shrivel on the sides into a straw like shape. Keep in mind however that other deficiencies and disorders may show the same signs of damage, so don't jump to conclusions until you do some testing and adjusting to your plants and their growing medium.

Some things to remember(I didn't write these ones)

1.Always test the pH of raw water and drainage water with a pH meter.
2.Raw water pH above 6.0 helps keep fertilizer mixes from becoming too acidic.
3.The pH level is much more important in organic soil gardens than in chemical
hydroponic gardens. The pH dictates the environment of bacteria necessary to the
uptake of organic nutrients.
Click to expand...

HE KNOWS ALL THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

LUDA.
:evil:
 
simpsonsampson420

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
i got sort of lazy and didnt read everything.. so i might be spitting back some repeated information... but here's what i think...

i think you have a ph problem... mostly with the soil... soil ph and water ph do not have anything to do with one another...

to begin with make sure everytime you water you are adjust the ph of the nute solution after you add nutes... adding nutes to water will lower the ph... so depending on the beginning ph you may need to adjust it.. but you should check it and make sure its with range everytime for good habit...

if you need to lower it you can use lemon juice.. to raise it you can use baking soda... amounts will vary.. so add a little, check, add a little, check.. better to be safe than have to re adjust in the opposite direction...

if your soil ph is incorrect it can set off a chain of events that can really fuck things up...

salt build up from nutrients in the soil will cause the ph to lower.... if as the ph lowers, different nutes become less available... as those nutes become less available, they begin to cause more build up.. the more build up the more the ph lowers... the more it lowers the more nutes become unavailable.. ect ect...

having a ph soil test kit to check the ph can save a lot of time trying to figure out plant problems... if your ph is correct then its a lot easier to know its a deficiency, and which one... trying to fix a deficiency with a ph problem will only compound the problem more... if you havent already, you may want to purchase a soil ph test kit and check the actual soil ph....

i have read about the water issue, so i wont go to much into that... but using RO water is going to be safer than anything.. a high ppm water can cause build up in the soil and start affecting ph as well...

using hydrated lime will raise your soils ph... hydrated lime itself is ph'd at 7.0.. so if you do use it your soil will eventually even out at or close to 7.0.. this is acceptable for your soils ph.. and, with the use of nutes, the soil should actually be slightly under 7.0 which would be perfect..

if you need to lower the ph using sulfur, magnesium sulfate, or gypsum work.. you may also use a soil acidifier like this http://www.planetnatural.com/site/chelated-iron.html

again, its better to use a little an adjust over time then try to adjust all at once.. follow the directions on the product to get to your desired PH... and try to adjust no more than .5 at a time.. to much of a swing can cause osmotic shock, which affects the roots..


obviously i suspect you have a nute deficiency.. but it could be a ph related issue.. if you are feeding with good nutes, and are using calmag, or if you are using a 2 or 3 part system, your plant should be getting everything it needs, which helps point even more to the ph issue.. but you cant tell until you get a soil ph test done..

one way to avoid ph issues is to adopt an "every other" feeding schedule where you feed with plain ph'd water one time, the ph'd nute water the next, then plain ph'd water, ph'd nute water, ect. ect...

as i said water ph and soil ph dont relate much at all.. but making sure the nute water you are feeding, and keeping all the nutes available when you feed, can help reduce the amount of build up left behind, which can help maintain soil ph...

if you havent flushed you may want to... it cant hurt... flush with a 1/4 strength nute solution.. that will actually remove more build up than plain water will.. try to get a soil ph test kit and see where the soils at...

if you have done one or more of these things please let me know and ill try to help from there...



sampson
 
LUDACRIS

LUDACRIS

New Member
you dont test the ph of the water thats been mixed with nutes before feeding.
thats as crazy as me.

LUDACRIS.
:lol:.
 
simpsonsampson420

simpsonsampson420

Well-Known Member
when else would you check it?? lol after you add nutes to the water it will fluctuate the ph of the water.. you want to make sure that prior to feeding its ph'd correctly...

some nutes do it more than others.. and the strength of the nutes themselves can affect it.. but you still should check after you add them to see what its at
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
simpsonsampson420 said:
i got sort of lazy and didnt read everything.. so i might be spitting back some repeated information... but here's what i think...

i think you have a ph problem... mostly with the soil... soil ph and water ph do not have anything to do with one another...

to begin with make sure everytime you water you are adjust the ph of the nute solution after you add nutes... adding nutes to water will lower the ph... so depending on the beginning ph you may need to adjust it.. but you should check it and make sure its with range everytime for good habit...

if you need to lower it you can use lemon juice.. to raise it you can use baking soda... amounts will vary.. so add a little, check, add a little, check.. better to be safe than have to re adjust in the opposite direction...

if your soil ph is incorrect it can set off a chain of events that can really fuck things up...

salt build up from nutrients in the soil will cause the ph to lower.... if as the ph lowers, different nutes become less available... as those nutes become less available, they begin to cause more build up.. the more build up the more the ph lowers... the more it lowers the more nutes become unavailable.. ect ect...

having a ph soil test kit to check the ph can save a lot of time trying to figure out plant problems... if your ph is correct then its a lot easier to know its a deficiency, and which one... trying to fix a deficiency with a ph problem will only compound the problem more... if you havent already, you may want to purchase a soil ph test kit and check the actual soil ph....

i have read about the water issue, so i wont go to much into that... but using RO water is going to be safer than anything.. a high ppm water can cause build up in the soil and start affecting ph as well...

using hydrated lime will raise your soils ph... hydrated lime itself is ph'd at 7.0.. so if you do use it your soil will eventually even out at or close to 7.0.. this is acceptable for your soils ph.. and, with the use of nutes, the soil should actually be slightly under 7.0 which would be perfect..

if you need to lower the ph using sulfur, magnesium sulfate, or gypsum work.. you may also use a soil acidifier like this http://www.planetnatural.com/site/chelated-iron.html

again, its better to use a little an adjust over time then try to adjust all at once.. follow the directions on the product to get to your desired PH... and try to adjust no more than .5 at a time.. to much of a swing can cause osmotic shock, which affects the roots..


obviously i suspect you have a nute deficiency.. but it could be a ph related issue.. if you are feeding with good nutes, and are using calmag, or if you are using a 2 or 3 part system, your plant should be getting everything it needs, which helps point even more to the ph issue.. but you cant tell until you get a soil ph test done..

one way to avoid ph issues is to adopt an "every other" feeding schedule where you feed with plain ph'd water one time, the ph'd nute water the next, then plain ph'd water, ph'd nute water, ect. ect...

as i said water ph and soil ph dont relate much at all.. but making sure the nute water you are feeding, and keeping all the nutes available when you feed, can help reduce the amount of build up left behind, which can help maintain soil ph...

if you havent flushed you may want to... it cant hurt... flush with a 1/4 strength nute solution.. that will actually remove more build up than plain water will.. try to get a soil ph test kit and see where the soils at...

if you have done one or more of these things please let me know and ill try to help from there...



sampson
Click to expand...
I'm in Happy Frog soil right now which has dolomite lime in it already. I've done 2 previous grows with it with no trouble at all. I have a meter a nice soil meter and it says 6.8. I always pH my water, at about 6.5 and I use r/o water. I've only fed once with 1/4 strength solution of Grow Big. And I've used cal-mag 3 times at 1/2 teaspoon per gallon which is half strength. It's a head scratcher I know. pH is always the first thing I look at when I have a problem but I am usually pretty on that. I think I've been too conservative with nutes and it's just a deficiency but I like getting as many opinions as possible when I'm stumped. I'd rep you but I just repped you the other day SS420. Thanks for taking a look.
 
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