Is there anything currently better then amare?

TogiX said:

I'm a lurker here but this thread is off the rails. Hybridway is obviously such a shill for amare it's "plain" obvious. I love how he uses "plain" to define COBs, especially a new series not more than a month old.

Telling someone that a fixture using outdated COBs + "enhanced spectrum" can beat a cutting edge COB at the same wattage will only work on someone that doesn't understand photobiology. To a certain extent, red and blue have a better return on quantum yield but it's really not that much of an increase; especially when you go to higher PPFD intensities where green is king because the outer choloroplasts are saturated since <1% of red light reaches the inner ones while ~90% of green light does.

Adding smaller diodes consisting of red/blue is a waste of time, efficiency, money, and most importantly, plant growth. Stick with 3500k/4000k 80 CRI on a newer generation COB and your light will destroy everything else out there on the market that isn't quantum board tech. If you want more blue, then add a 5000k 80CRI. If you want more red, swap for a 3000k 90CRI.

TL;DR: Raw photons + Sieve effect > "enhanced spectrum". End of story.

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I had to put the smackdown on promoter on another forum for promoting Amare.. It's just dishonest.. He grew a plant that looked like my first CFL grow. Check it out. The article is just crap..

https://www.autoflower.net/forums/showcase/amare-solareclipse-se450uvb.55/

sunny747 said:

I had to put the smackdown on promoter on another forum for promoting Amare.. It's just dishonest.. He grew a plant that looked like my first CFL grow. Check it out. The article is just crap..

https://www.autoflower.net/forums/showcase/amare-solareclipse-se450uvb.55/

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In all fairness, 450w of Amare will grow just as well as 450w of any other light. It's not lacking in photon strength or spectrum. Light is light. If he grew a small plant it's 99% growing technique, or lack of it.

sunny747 said:

I had to put the smackdown on promoter on another forum for promoting Amare.. It's just dishonest.. He grew a plant that looked like my first CFL grow. Check it out. The article is just crap..

https://www.autoflower.net/forums/showcase/amare-solareclipse-se450uvb.55/

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Good comments on that thread. 1k for 6 cxb 3070. No thanks.

BM9AGS said:

Good comments on that thread. 1k for 6 cxb 3070. No thanks.

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but you can dicker with him for a better price like a car salesman so says the Amare crew

I think it comes down to what the consumer is looking for, you need to decide if you only want white light or you will want additional lighting as well.

If you are going to add red and blue and UV the SE-450 for it's real street price not MSRP on the website does make sense if you are not the DIY type. If you just want straight COB's then no it does not. But neither does some of the straight COB lighting on the market. Timber is a great value if you don't have a complete DIY skill set, but for total DIY building your own frame etc you can get lights done even cheaper. With the new brands on the market as well now like Citizen, and new generation Vero's, etc there's lot's of options. The best thing about DIY is being able to tailor your lights to your EVERY need, coverage, power output, equipment/part selection, remote mount drivers?, finances (cost), etc.

All this arguing over the best lights is just childish, as are some of the claims people make. No two grows are alike, and a lot of times the best light for a certain grow is just not what we might "want" in there. But people with the LED's like many other hobbies, seem to have to one up each other on every DIY, or brand vs brand etc.

If guys put as much effort into growing as they did bickering we would be seeing threads full of buds and not data sheets.

Mixed Spectrum pre built it's basically Indagro with their Pontoons vs Amare, Straight COB's there's so many options it will make your head spin, especially if you DIY, and you can DIY mixed spectrum it just takes a lot more diligence for research on behalf of the grower/builder. Then you can go down the Arduino rabbit hole, etc. The LED game goes deep if you want it to. Like I said, everyone, and every grow is different. There is no one answer, and there are many other things all else being equal that would affect someone's grow more than HID vs LED (lighting) or Mixed Spectrum LED vs White Light only.............

Just my $0.02

Danielson999 said:

The 400w Timber light costs $1.34 per watt. Lower than anything on the list shown earlier in the thread by a mile

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And when you consider who generated that list, you understand why Timber wasn't included.

I also agree that the light, the efficiency of said light and all the charts that "back it up" don't mean all that much in the reality of growing cannabis. It really just seems to always end up being only good as a point to start an argument over! Why aren't there the same discussions about the efficiency of the fans? Or, the efficiency of the nutrients? Or, the efficiency of the watering schedule? Why aren't people breaking down the exact number of absorbed salt molecules per square inch of soil and charting it all out with different colored lines? LOL!

It doesn't matter how efficient or how many PPFD the light makes IF the grower's watering schedule isn't as efficient as it should be, or if the grower doesn't know anything about mitigating a pest problem, etc. So, when someone who uses an Amare (for example) light gets it dialed into their grow space and their nutrient/watering schedule, then that Amare light will do just fine for that application. But, what if the grower decides they want to grow a brand new, un-tried strain? Oh NO! It might not yield as much or grow as efficiently as that Blue Dream strain the other guy grew! Is it the fault of the Amare? Could a Cree COB have done better? God forbid the strain, itself isn't as efficient as it could be! God forbid growers have individualized goals for their grows -other than gpw.

@FunnyManSam My best advice is to buy your light from a company that isn't run by owners responding to their customers (or potential customers) as if they are "mosquitoes" ...etc. Don't trust any companies headed up by people making snotty, bully-ish, self-aggrandizing remarks to people on this forum. Support the companies who listen to what the growers are asking for and providing it with a professional attitude.

tstick said:

And when you consider who generated that list, you understand why Timber wasn't included.

I also agree that the light, the efficiency of said light and all the charts that "back it up" don't mean all that much in the reality of growing cannabis. It really just seems to always end up being only good as a point to start an argument over! Why aren't there the same discussions about the efficiency of the fans? Or, the efficiency of the nutrients? Or, the efficiency of the watering schedule? Why aren't people breaking down the exact number of absorbed salt molecules per square inch of soil and charting it all out with different colored lines? LOL!

It doesn't matter how efficient or how many PPFD the light makes IF the grower's watering schedule isn't as efficient as it should be, or if the grower doesn't know anything about mitigating a pest problem, etc. So, when someone who uses an Amare (for example) light gets it dialed into their grow space and their nutrient/watering schedule, then that Amare light will do just fine for that application. But, what if the grower decides they want to grow a brand new, un-tried strain? Oh NO! It might not yield as much or grow as efficiently as that Blue Dream strain the other guy grew! Is it the fault of the Amare? Could a Cree COB have done better? God forbid the strain, itself isn't as efficient as it could be! God forbid growers have individualized goals for their grows -other than gpw.

@FunnyManSam My best advice is to buy your light from a company that isn't run by owners responding to their customers (or potential customers) as if they are "mosquitoes" ...etc. Don't trust any companies headed up by people making snotty, bully-ish, self-aggrandizing remarks to people on this forum. Support the companies who listen to what the growers are asking for and providing it with a professional attitude.

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Very well said!

the timber kits are really easy to put together. The wires are color coded to match with colored tabs on cob light the harness just plugs right into each other with high-quality waterproof connectors. I just put mine together November 10th super easy and I'm totally satisfied with the purchase ="FunnyManSam, post: 13191937, member: 922704"]Are the timber kits hard to put together? And price isn't too big of an issue, I've been saving and planning on having to buy a new light soon. Are there any other already built lights that anyone recommends. What are some of the top quailty brands? Any kind of google search just days mars hydro etc.. which I know aren't the best

tstick said:

Why aren't there the same discussions about the efficiency of the fans? Or, the efficiency of the nutrients? Or, the efficiency of the watering schedule? Why aren't people breaking down the exact number of absorbed salt molecules per square inch of soil and charting it all out with different colored lines?

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I agree with everything you're saying BUT...
Have you been in the Organics or Harvesting section lately? There are guys ready to cut each others throats out arguing about how their soil mix is better than the other guys lol! You can go into any section of these forums and you'll find stoners arguing about everything. It's definitely not just an LED or Cob/HPS thing.

Aside from that, far too much is being made about photons. All this talk about supplementing reds or blues or uv or far reds. I get it, DIY'ers don't want a 'simple' answer. We don't want to just get a few cobs and hang them up, we want arduino's, co2, thc testers and the most advanced spectrum on the planet.
Do Jeep owners like plain old Jeeps? No, they want it jacked up and fat tires and a winch and fog lights and custom fender flairs etc etc. It's the nature of the beast....but the guy with the plain old Jeep Wrangler is still out there having just as much fun and hitting all the same trails.

Danielson999 said:

I agree with everything you're saying BUT...
Have you been in the Organics or Harvesting section lately? There are guys ready to cut each others throats out arguing about how their soil mix is better than the other guys lol! You can go into any section of these forums and you'll find stoners arguing about everything. It's definitely not just an LED or Cob/HPS thing.

Aside from that, far too much is being made about photons. All this talk about supplementing reds or blues or uv or far reds. I get it, DIY'ers don't want a 'simple' answer. We don't want to just get a few cobs and hang them up, we want arduino's, co2, thc testers and the most advanced spectrum on the planet.
Do Jeep owners like plain old Jeeps? No, they want it jacked up and fat tires and a winch and fog lights and custom fender flairs etc etc. It's the nature of the beast....but the guy with the plain old Jeep Wrangler is still out there having just as much fun and hitting all the same trails.

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And has extra Gas Money!

What o don't understand is why so many pro-white cob only users totally ignore the R+B, R+D that had the led industry making only Burple?
It's like they have never considered that there's a happy medium between the two, like most things.
Also, most folks know Amare was amongst the first or the very first comp. to utilize white cobs. W/ that said, they had the chance to run just cobs. After speaking to Victor about it 18 months ago, he's response was that extensive testing proved the enhanced was the way to go. (More scientific of an answer actually to do w/ plant morphology)
He could've had a much higher profit-margin going w/ just cobs but decided it was only a compromise in comparison determined through testing.
Not that cobs don't produce well, just that he found the enhanced to produce better.
Which makes perfect sense considering research.
But to each his own. The fact that we can buy enhanced for the same price as straight white providing matching efficiency & photons makes it the choice for me along w/ what Ive seen in plant response running both.
I truly believe the Terpin profile would be better & there would be approx a 2-4 oz. yield increase per 400w fixture. Now before anyone acts crazy over that statement, it is only my opinion.
I've yet to do a full on side by side but have intended to all year.
This next run will be all Amare & SunCloak but I just set-up the cloner the other night & made 3 of my favorite plants to grow along w/ 3 of everything. So, the ones that turn out to be equals will be used.
I inteand on using them for a direct side by side using the Amare vs. white cob.
I truly hope to find out the truth & share my findings w/ everyone.
The reason for making 3 clones of my Sensi-Star is to run HPS against both.
There's so many poeple running side by sides now using HPS & cobs but none are in a thread. Why is that, mmmmnnnhh?
I've seen about 5 so far but never one on RIU. Yet so many boast that there Cobber is an HPS killer, never having used HPS before. I hate that.
All I care about is the truth.
Personally, I'd pay double for a fixture that consistently produces even 1oz more per light. But that's just me.

If I go with enhanced light I don't necessarily have to go with amare, I'm open to other options I just don't even know where to start.

FunnyManSam said:

If I go with enhanced light I don't necessarily have to go with amare, I'm open to other options I just don't even know where to start.

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Do you like the one you have? I ask cuz they've only gotten better since the SE-350.
They are by far the best enhanced cob light available. Even the haters would have to agree. They now use monos equally as efficient as good cobs. Granted new ones just came out but Victor is always on-top of up-grades as soon as they're proven. He switched to more efficient monos right away, also went w/ MranWell drivers over the original LS drivers he used in the SE models. What's your space & goals?
But, if you like the enhanced white, Fluence Bio probably makes a good one too. I can't say for sure cuz I've never used one but the components & spectrum appear to be legit.
Personally, I like Amare & am fully invested into their lights.
I grow for quality & weight & cannot afford to lose anything. That's my opinion.

FunnyManSam said:

If I go with enhanced light I don't necessarily have to go with amare, I'm open to other options I just don't even know where to start.

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No but from many experienced growers your best bet is to just go with cobs. Cxb 3590 or citi or vero gen 7.

There's California light works solar system 550. But timber is better.

FunnyManSam said:

If I go with enhanced light I don't necessarily have to go with amare, I'm open to other options I just don't even know where to start.

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Money wise you could just get a cob kit and add a uv floro to it. I think you can buy the monos that amare uses.

I prefer a good mixed spectrum. I think the smoke is better.

it's all good

If you like high dollar LED check these guys out.

https://www.kindledgrowlights.com/

Way too much again for my blood.

Or the one that has the higher PAR.

https://platinumgrowlights.com/

Uberknot said:

If you like high dollar LED check these guys out.

https://www.kindledgrowlights.com/

Way too much again for my blood.

Or the one that has the higher PAR.

https://platinumgrowlights.com/products/p300

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I agree, the KIND led lights have a spectrum that even surpasses Amare. It obviously must grow better terpines and higher yield than any other light on the market.

Man, you just took my opinions & what I know & turned it all around on me w/o even considering that I may have a point.
Why do you think I am a shill?
I share my findings & results no matter what they are.
I'm actually offended right now. For real. It's getting sickening. Just because I like what o use & am happy w/ the results I'm a shill?
If anything I have more of a right to recommend something then 1/2 the poeple that do w/o ever handling the product.
That's messed up.
Most of these guys never touched a light or even seen results from that comp. yet recommend it. I have & that should give me the right to recommend it as well as share my opinion.
Don't know how to quote each sentence so bare w/ me.
- Amare is no more money then any good cob light out there. ($2 a watt) Even less expensive then some but we all know damn well they cost allot more to produce.
- one can play Cob Salad all day to enhance their spectrum but it does not blend nearly as well.
- none of those growers ever compared Amare to their pre-built cob fixture
- they do produce higher GPW & g/sq' then HPS. I've documented it.
- You saying my finding are not legit is beyond hurtful. I work really hard to do these grows & share. I'm as honest as they come & don't care if my opinions are false, I'm only interested I the truth. I will openly admit when I'm wrong asxwe as always giving others props. You'll never see me hating on anyone unless they attack me & even that is as truthful as possible.
- allot has to do w/ the grower, absolutely. But I've compared to Burple & light is NOT just light. Spectrum plays a huge part. Side by side show that.
- Amare does have their own light recipe. And I've shared it w/ others trying to DIY several times. It's not a secret sauce. It's a science.
- I didn't go on the Quantum Board thread talking about Amare @ all. You're telling stories that are no where near true.
I brought a valid point about air-flow to the table. That was it. Whenever I try to be helpful there's always someone like you looking for the worst thing to say about me. It's not fair & ain't right. All because I recommend the product I like & have actual experience using. God forbid, right? WTF! You don't hear me knocking anyone unless they deserve it. I do not.
- I have not seen Victors reports. Only have discussed the matter. Although there are plenty of documented results out there that are all good as well as reviews. How can you deny that?
- if you think I'm full of BS, you should look further into it. I don't lie & if you think I do, I'd love to see even one example.
- to say I'm a shill is wrong. Guys recomending lights w/ authority they've never handled & diss guys like me are the true shills. That's wrong. I provide info & try to help others all the time. Also, I do not disrespect others in the process.
Please recognize these things.
The disrespect you portray is contagious obviously. This place could be so much more helpful to others if not for this kind hating.

you would have to answer, what does "better" mean to you..

to me is control-ability and scale-ability .. I use my lights in various ways always experimenting so I need a light that can experiment with me.. and scale to different sizes and lighting stages and such.. with that I use helios. because it fits my desires in growing. my desire is not the highest GPW / umol/j / PAR although these are nice for sure, I would rather just crank them up a little more

to me people have these contests of superiority of umol/j which is fine, or this or that, but really to me it doesn't make sense when they go spend $5 on a cup of coffee later that day calming highest efficiency, then not taking the highest efficiency lifestyle.. I find it absolutely ridiculous to be honest really. it's the ego of identification with the "highest" which is bad and path when talking about the ever changing LED landscape.. I mean how many people are saying this about LED and haven't switched all their house lights to LED first... once again I find blasting a couple more watts on the plants better and taking a shorter shower, my opinion

since you have used some lighting, sit for literally 10 minutes, making a list of what you learned, what you want now and why, and then match that to the hundred of systems out there today.. it might surprise you what you actually want vs. what you think you want... that's all it takes amigo, as we are all going to have a different opinion for you, and the worst way to live is by someone else's thoughts of how it ought to be.... decide for yourself what you want and you'll find the system pop right in your lap, trust that

hell, I'll even take a hello RX30 to test the shit out of plants rather then these con men claiming they have the best when they are businessmen, not growers testing a hundred different spectrums... you know this to be true or you would have seen a HPS spectrum LED panel to test... which I have not seen yet............... go figure

peter drucker said "Most people think they know what they’re good at. They are usually wrong. More often, people know what they’re not good at — and even then more people are wrong than right."