Inda-gro Induction...

Fonzarelli

Active Member
I'm still looking for my next light. Been leaning toward an Inda-Grow, until I read this. Can somebody elaborate, put it in lay people perspective?


I don't think i`d want to be spending a lot of time in the near field of what is effectively a 2.65mhz transmitter/antenna operating at several hundred watts :wink:
Sounds like a ham radio
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member

Here is IGs reply




I don’t know where he got that information. We’re running the drivers @ 240 kHz. To equate that with AM radio bandwidth; @ 560 kHz we operate at less than half that bandwidth.

In lay people terms what it really means is that when compared to 60hZ magnetic or 50kHz digital ballasts we simply operate at a much lower current but a higher frequency to excite the gasses via the two coils that wrap around the glass bulb. The driver, cable and coils are all insulated and we meet all FCC standards for EMF suppression which without the use of electrodes is exceptionally energy and PAR efficient when compared to electrode style lamps.

Hope that helps


Darryl Cotton
President
 

711grower

Active Member
spliferous you need a cocktail and chill out. no offense but you sound like you are in love with daryl. he is a nice guy and very helpful and i would never say anything bad about him. i am happy you found a lighting source that works for your needs but bashing other peoples methods is just ignorant. i always appreciate people thinking outside the box especially when it comes to this industry. i have been involved with reefkeeping for years. reef lighting for the hobbyist is far more advanced then any lighting catered towards mmj. hood and bulb developement is just starting to get advanced for us growers. look at the hood design of growlite, luxor, and cycloptics. these are extremely new to our market however, similiar designs have been available to the aquarium folk for over 15 years. every light set up has a place. to date i have used so many different lighting sources and have yet to find anything that can come close to the yield of a single 1000 watt hps in a 4x4 area. bang for the buck it just cant be beat. i still continue my quest for an alternative to the 1000 watter and just havent got there yet.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Splif: This for you bro, should save you some 'splainin' to anyone who wants to see 420 PAR v 1000 hps. There were a few liberties taken, occasionally the comparos have the hps a few feet farther back, but other than that it speaks well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPeQ2V6cuOA&feature=relmfu

Another video its not as good. What could be the reason?

EDIT: I picked up a potential tip from the above IG v hps YT video. For those who use IG for the first time, on a strain they are familiar growing, the IG may not do as well as advertised. HOWEVER, it seems the next gen of clones (and likely seeds) will be acclimated to the IG bulb spectral balance and then outperform 1000w
 

Splifferous

New Member

Here is IGs reply




I don’t know where he got that information. We’re running the drivers @ 240 kHz. To equate that with AM radio bandwidth; @ 560 kHz we operate at less than half that bandwidth.

In lay people terms what it really means is that when compared to 60hZ magnetic or 50kHz digital ballasts we simply operate at a much lower current but a higher frequency to excite the gasses via the two coils that wrap around the glass bulb. The driver, cable and coils are all insulated and we meet all FCC standards for EMF suppression which without the use of electrodes is exceptionally energy and PAR efficient when compared to electrode style lamps.

Hope that helps


Darryl Cotton
President

my apologies. have been extremely sleep deprived as of late (averaging 3 hours of sleep per night), and now that i am a bit more clear headed i think i got that freq. from the tech info of a different lamp mfgr. in any event, i spend a great deal of time around those lamps and i have noticed zero interference between the IG lamps or any other device i have brought near them.

also, i can't go back to correct that accidental mis-quote of technical details in the original post (#169). but thank's for correcting me on that.
 

Splifferous

New Member
spliferous you need a cocktail and chill out. no offense but you sound like you are in love with daryl. he is a nice guy and very helpful and i would never say anything bad about him. i am happy you found a lighting source that works for your needs but bashing other peoples methods is just ignorant. i always appreciate people thinking outside the box especially when it comes to this industry. i have been involved with reefkeeping for years. reef lighting for the hobbyist is far more advanced then any lighting catered towards mmj. hood and bulb developement is just starting to get advanced for us growers. look at the hood design of growlite, luxor, and cycloptics. these are extremely new to our market however, similiar designs have been available to the aquarium folk for over 15 years. every light set up has a place. to date i have used so many different lighting sources and have yet to find anything that can come close to the yield of a single 1000 watt hps in a 4x4 area. bang for the buck it just cant be beat. i still continue my quest for an alternative to the 1000 watter and just havent got there yet.
i think i'm missing your point here...

coral is not cannabis and vice versa; it sounds like you know this. you go on to state how every light has it's place. but then imply that reef lighting is acceptable for cannabis? sorry, but even after a 14 hour stretch of sleep, i'm lost.

also, perhaps you miss the point of this particular thread? it is not a focus on EFDL surpassing HPS in terms of yield or quality (altho it has been my personal experience that this is so), but rather a focus on how this lighting technology affords the grower the ability to set up a successful grow room on a rather small circuit and monthly utility budget, and without spending a fortune on the then unnecessary thermal control devices (AC units, Ice Boxes, additional inline fans for hood cooling...). i'm all about "bang for the buck", but math up your approach for me. i'm interested to see the numbers that have you so set in your ways.

on a side note... a 1000w hps in a 16 sq ft area must make thermal issues a true headache.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
my apologies. have been extremely sleep deprived as of late (averaging 3 hours of sleep per night), and now that i am a bit more clear headed i think i got that freq. from the tech info of a different lamp mfgr. in any event, i spend a great deal of time around those lamps and i have noticed zero interference between the IG lamps or any other device i have brought near them.
You might be thinking of the Luxim microwave-pumped plasma "engine". Initially it was powered by a magnetron in the microwave region, say 2.65 GHz. This of course would generate much noise in a very busy region of the EM spectrum. cn
 

Splifferous

New Member
Splif: This for you bro, should save you some 'splainin' to anyone who wants to see 420 PAR v 1000 hps. There were a few liberties taken, occasionally the comparos have the hps a few feet farther back, but other than that it speaks well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPeQ2V6cuOA&feature=relmfu

Another video its not as good. What could be the reason?

EDIT: I picked up a potential tip from the above IG v hps YT video. For those who use IG for the first time, on a strain they are familiar growing, the IG may not do as well as advertised. HOWEVER, it seems the next gen of clones (and likely seeds) will be acclimated to the IG bulb spectral balance and then outperform 1000w
in regards to the idea of the plants getting "acclimatized" to the light.. idk. none of my professors in college were able to give any insight on that, as they were all focused on natural (outdoor, sun driven) horticulture, and had no idea about artificial lighting as the sole light source for plants. i am running mostly genetics that came to me as clones from people that used either t5 or mh for veg. all of the plants flourished under the 200PARs immediately, and when i send week later update pics to the person i got the clones from, they are always surprised with the growth in that short time.

my big Cannatonic mommy is growing amazingly fast, and the clones that i have taken from her seem to be maintaining the same rate of growth as their source plant. the Cannatonic seems to be faster than the Mendo Purp, but i mark that up to genetics as they are on matching diets and side by side under the same 420PAR.

in regards to the balance of the light spectra, i notice that when you flip the plants from veg to bloom, under the full spectrum of the IG lamps, the plants transition faster than if they went from MH to HPS at the same time that they went into 12/12. that old approach exposes the plants to an analog change in their flowering hormones but a digital change to the light they are exposed to (when it's the hormones effecting a change in what light the plants want). that first day, the plants are truly still vegging (just beginning to produce functional levels of flowering hormones) and still prefer the bluer spectrum for best chlorophyll b stimulation. but the traditional approach is to have them in the HPS light, where they don't get the spectrum they want. sure, after 2 weeks the plants have made the adjustment and are now happy with the HPS, but that lag is something they need to overcome. this is based on my personal experience.

about that video: no opinion. i don't really like photo slide shows. i tried to present my videos as actual videos of the tent how it was set up. i never made anything look a certain way for the video if that wasn't how it was set up to be all the time. i'm sure that shows in the consistency of the light placement across all of the videos i posted of my last bloom. and when it came to me moving plants, i always pointed that out and provided my reasons.
 

Splifferous

New Member
You might be thinking of the Luxim microwave-pumped plasma "engine". Initially it was powered by a magnetron in the microwave region, say 2.65 GHz. This of course would generate much noise in a very busy region of the EM spectrum. cn
good catch, that sounds right. i had been reading a lot on the new LEP from Luxim, and numbers tend to stick with my brain..

again, my apologies for the above slip in info, it certainly wasn't expected to come off as such a faux pas.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
good catch, that sounds right. i had been reading a lot on the new LEP from Luxim, and numbers tend to stick with my brain..

again, my apologies for the above slip in info, it certainly wasn't expected to come off as such a faux pas.
No worries. Only reason I even knew that is because I'm dangerously interested in a Stray Light LEP lamp. cn
 

Splifferous

New Member
According to the bulk of what i've been reading about LEP is that it is still intended to supplement the traditional HPS. for that alone, it seems like a bad idea, because their "solution" to the fact that a 600w or 1000w HPS has an unbalanced spectrum is to just put up another 400w of a difference spectrum, and now you are running at greater power and have 2 bulbs to replace per cycle, not just the one HPS.

i also saw a LEP product (from Chameleon, i think) that they stated was a prototype, and it had two 400w LEP and 4 banks of red LEDs (sorry, i can't find it on youtube right now), as well as several LEP only demonstrations and they really weren't that impressive.


anyways, i know that people want to see bud porn, and shit, me too! i'm gonna get running for now.. gotta finish prepping the new veg room and them i'm flipping the MP and CT tonight. i will be posting updates as they transition, as well as a video of the bloom tent, later tonight.

ttfn.
 

Buck123

Well-Known Member
And the questioning starts again haha! It wont end Spliff lol Also for people viewing the thread do your reading before you talk B.S!! From day one it hasnt been about getting heaps better results than Hps more so a low heat no bulb changing alternative. Not rocket science no A/C needed no bulbs changed plain and simple!
 

711grower

Active Member
what i am saying spliff is that the design of a reflector has alot of influence on par and spectral output. i am not stating what works for a reef will work for growing a cannabis plant. reefers have been designing spectrums for corals for along time. have you looked into the tecnology behind the cycloptics reflector ? have you done research on what what philips is achieving in europe with inter canopy led lighting ? have you researched what commercial indoor growers are leaning towards ? every light has its place for a specific grow method. yes i would love to see the disquisting 1000 watt hps see its day but i have yet to find it yet. i used 2 400 watt indo grow lights and i got a 60 percent the yield that my 1000 watt hps did. the quality was great off the indagro but yield suffered. i dont mind spending an extra 50 bucks a month in thermal managemant of my crop to yield an average of 10 oz per crop. the math is there. what i dont appreciate is you putting down other peoples methods. theres probably some guru grower out there that can yield an oz off a maglite flashlight but you would put them down to. cheers
 

Splifferous

New Member
what i am saying spliff is that the design of a reflector has alot of influence on par and spectral output. i am not stating what works for a reef will work for growing a cannabis plant. reefers have been designing spectrums for corals for along time. have you looked into the tecnology behind the cycloptics reflector ? have you done research on what what philips is achieving in europe with inter canopy led lighting ? have you researched what commercial indoor growers are leaning towards ? every light has its place for a specific grow method. yes i would love to see the disquisting 1000 watt hps see its day but i have yet to find it yet. i used 2 400 watt indo grow lights and i got a 60 percent the yield that my 1000 watt hps did. the quality was great off the indagro but yield suffered. i dont mind spending an extra 50 bucks a month in thermal managemant of my crop to yield an average of 10 oz per crop. the math is there. what i dont appreciate is you putting down other peoples methods. theres probably some guru grower out there that can yield an oz off a maglite flashlight but you would put them down to. cheers
in regards to Phillips, i can say that i researched their participation in the Phoebus Cartel. the following are copied from wiki sources:

As of 2012 Philips is the largest manufacturer of lighting in the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips)

The Phoebus cartel was a cartel of, among others, Osram, Philips and General Electric [SUP][1][/SUP] from December 23, 1924 until 1939 that existed to control the manufacture and sale of light bulbs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel)

i feel that it is plainly obvious that they owe their current position as the leading lighting manufacturer in the world to their century old plot to profit off of what is called "planned obsolescence". (Planned obsolescence or built-in obsolescence[SUP][1][/SUP] in industrial design is a policy of planning or designing a product with a limited useful life, so it will become obsolete, that is, unfashionable or no longer functional after a certain period of time.[SUP][1][/SUP]Planned obsolescence has potential benefits for a producer because to obtain continuing use of the product the consumer is under pressure to purchase again, whether from the same manufacturer (a replacement part or a newer model), or from a competitor which might also rely on planned obsolescence)

as such, i did look into that cycloptics reflector technology; and since it is designed around the "Philips Elite Agro 315W ceramic metal halide lamp", i immediately scoffed at it: it is still based on a a technology that functions according to a policy of planned obsolescence

as far as i am concerned, what is going on with european lighting and cannabis cultivation is old hat. they're all sucking off the Phillips teat. and the growing scene there is a mess with grows fully contaminated with Mosaic Virus, and people that think that semi-albino variegations of cannabis are desirable - they have issues that are almost unheard of here in the states, and they seem to love how they messed up plants look.

when you say that you ran two 400w IG lamps, you didn't say they were 420PARs, so i presume you were using the other line up, the Pro Series 400. that provides a different spectrum than the PAR series lamps. i'm not surprised that they didn't perform better in bloom; they're veg only in my book. on the other hand, the 420PARs are a beast in bloom. you will see shortly, i am setting up the rooms and plants now. i'm flipping some tonight and you will see them transition here. in two months, you will see the results of the PAR lamps. btw, i pulled 8 ounces (dry & cured proper nugs - popcorn, larf and trim not counted) off of a single plant that was under the 420PAR - and that one suffered a light failure (it was a full spectrum solutions EFDL that failed) a month or so into bloom and had to go a week under a 200w veg EFDL while the 420PAR was shipping to me. i'm sure that you saw that post previous in this thread.

anyways, i live in potland, i mean Portland, Oregon. by many international accounts, this place right here is the new and current cannabis mecca. with street prices, according to some of my friends of top shelf organic meds, top buds by the ounce fetching a mighty 150-200$... PER OUNCE, year-round, from many sources. seems like perfectly indoor grown, organic, medical grade greatness is par for the course up here. and when i show my grows to other growers up here, and show them the lights i use, they get really excited... i know that i have already referred 2 friends to Inda-Gro for their purchases, and i have a friend in the seattle area that mentioned that he wanted to replace all 6k of his HPS watts with PRO420PARs, watt for watt. and these guys have been growing for decades each. the old school growers, even the commercial ones are stuck in the old school. period. they use MH and HPS because thats what they have been using. necessity is the mother of invention, and the step mother to innovation. if those guys have no at hand reason to change, or to even research if there's something better, they won't. my friends thought they knew everything they needed to know about their grows, until they saw it for themselves what these lamps do.

as far as me putting down the methods employed by others, i'm not sure where i did that. others can do what they want, so long as it has no impact on my supply. i will admit tho, that i can be a bit opinionated about large power operations here in the PNW, as i hate the fact that we use hydro power, and that is all at the expense of salmon runs.

also, you closing statement made no sense. we can all agree that there "probably" isn't anyone anywhere that can grow an ounce with a maglight, much less that would waste the time and effort trying. however, i reserve the right, should i ever be proven wrong in that, to congratulate them on that accomplishment. i would then ask them how many batteries they went thru in all that time, and what they did with the spent ones. only then would i put them down.

cheers.
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
what i am saying spliff is that the design of a reflector has alot of influence on par and spectral output. i am not stating what works for a reef will work for growing a cannabis plant. reefers have been designing spectrums for corals for along time. have you looked into the tecnology behind the cycloptics reflector ? have you done research on what what philips is achieving in europe with inter canopy led lighting ? have you researched what commercial indoor growers are leaning towards ? every light has its place for a specific grow method. yes i would love to see the disquisting 1000 watt hps see its day but i have yet to find it yet. i used 2 400 watt indo grow lights and i got a 60 percent the yield that my 1000 watt hps did. the quality was great off the indagro but yield suffered. i dont mind spending an extra 50 bucks a month in thermal managemant of my crop to yield an average of 10 oz per crop. the math is there. what i dont appreciate is you putting down other peoples methods. theres probably some guru grower out there that can yield an oz off a maglite flashlight but you would put them down to. cheers
Hi guys. Been taking some time off to chill 'fuck lawyers and exes' but still enjoying the ride. As always nice work Spliff and great dialogue continues to abound.

711: You're correct about reflector design having 'alot of influence' but would respectfully have to disagree with you as to why that is. The design of a reflector has nothing at all to do with PAR or spectral output. The design of the reflector has to do with how efficient the reflector materials are in terms of reflectance values and construction geometry in optimizing whatever spectrums the lamp itself is producing and than directing the lamps overall intensities towards the canopy.

An optimized reflector for grow takes as much energy as possible, energy that is trapped behind the lamp or between opposing glass tubes like in coiled cfl lamps, and manages to direct as much of that light as possible towards the plant. Poorly designed reflectors that are, for example radiused geometry, throw a high percentage of light back at the glass and not down towards the canopy. The same can be said of inexpensive low quality reflective materials absorbing more energy than is reflected. Growers need high reflectance values and the fewest number of bends in the material while still effectively directing the lamp intensities towards the canopy. Your plants will thank you.
 

711grower

Active Member
spliff you were bashing people using aquarium bulbs to grow pot. the folks doing this are experimenting with floral recipes and getting some fairly impressive results doing so. amen to people thinking outside the box. i am happy you are in love with your inda grow. i agree its a quality product but not a 1000 watt replacement even if going watt for watt. you are correct the lights i used where the pro 400 models so i cant comment on how the 420s perform. i consistently run 4 plants under a 1000 watt hps thats an average of 250 watts per plant. i yield 6 to 8 oz per plant with a 3 to 4 week vedge time. all this while using 5 bucks worth of nutes and 25 bucks worth of soil and perlite... i average .7 to .8 grams per watt. yes its harder to cool the room and yes i replace the hps bulbs every 7 months but the expense in higher yield more then compensates for the increased yields. by your calculations your grow is at about .53 grams per watt. believe me i want nothing more then throwing away the 1000 watt dinosaur but it hasnt happened yet. i have tons invested in leds and they yield 1/3 less then my hps watt for watt. i also have a 400 watt cmh grow at the moment and look forward to the results.

lastly, i am getting a rechargeable maglite just to piss you off with its monster yields
 

Splifferous

New Member
spliff you were bashing people using aquarium bulbs to grow pot. the folks doing this are experimenting with floral recipes and getting some fairly impressive results doing so. amen to people thinking outside the box. i am happy you are in love with your inda grow. i agree its a quality product but not a 1000 watt replacement even if going watt for watt. you are correct the lights i used where the pro 400 models so i cant comment on how the 420s perform. i consistently run 4 plants under a 1000 watt hps thats an average of 250 watts per plant. i yield 6 to 8 oz per plant with a 3 to 4 week vedge time. all this while using 5 bucks worth of nutes and 25 bucks worth of soil and perlite... i average .7 to .8 grams per watt. yes its harder to cool the room and yes i replace the hps bulbs every 7 months but the expense in higher yield more then compensates for the increased yields. by your calculations your grow is at about .53 grams per watt. believe me i want nothing more then throwing away the 1000 watt dinosaur but it hasnt happened yet. i have tons invested in leds and they yield 1/3 less then my hps watt for watt. i also have a 400 watt cmh grow at the moment and look forward to the results.

lastly, i am getting a rechargeable maglite just to piss you off with its monster yields
that part about the rechargable maglite... i lol'd. -=o)

in regards to my last grow, that was (get ready for it) my first personal grow in over a decade; i took on legal status as my own grower in Feb of this year. in that decade of off time from hands-on, i helped others in their own gardens, and took botany, horticulture, crop soil science, propagation, organic gardening, etc classes.

on the point of the plants in the last harvest, the PDP was the only one to be properly scrogged, into a 18 inch by 24 inch grid. she put up 8 ounces on her own, being under the 420PAR that was on a light mover and covering 3 other plants. (so whats that, 105 watts?)

the other plants were about 1.5 to 2 ounces apiece, which i attribute to the fact that i was unable to get enough of the scrog grids in time for them; i had to use crappy tomato hoops on them - and i wasn't prepared for proper vertical growing.


so now, i have 2 420PARs for bloom. the plants all have their own scrogs on them, and they are in 7 gallon pots as opposed to 3s and 5s. i am anticipating 8-10 ounces a piece from 6 plants. from 840 watts.

don't let my choice of these lights fool you; i'm not made of money. the choice to get these lights was a family decision that took serious financial effort and discipline. aside from that, everything else in the garden is a work in progress.

and about the alleged "bashing" you are mentioning... are you referring to when i typed this:

  • you want a side-by-side putting a 420PAR vs your aquarium lights...? sorry. i use my hard earned funds to invest in quality lighting. you want to test the worthiness of fish lights for cannabis? please, get right on that.​


i really don't read that to be bashing. someone said they wanted to see a side by side... well, thats fine. my response was more in the line of "do what ever you want" more so than "sure, i'll do that for you", or even "you're stupid for wanting that". i was just answering directly to him in that manner because the way i read his post (as it was directed at me) he was coming up and telling me what i needed to do. to me, he was all "i want this from them, i want this from you, i want this from someone else, then i can do blah blah blah and know what i want to know as a result of the effort of other people..." shit, lets be real. back at the beginning of this year, i was wanting to see side-by-sides of these PAR lamps vs HPS, and had the same issues as everyone else; there were no complete journaled grows that illustrated exactly what i wanted to understand. at some point i had to make up my mind was i gonna just sit there with a hand out and want want want, or was i going to actually do something about it that would lend itself to my own increase in knowledge. with no risk, comes no reward.

i know fish and reef lights aren't cheap, and i'm already stretched at this point. i just have very little interest in traditionally designed fluro tubes (t5, t8, t12, pll) that have inefficient electrode/end cap design that leads to short lifespans, and as such i have a very low interest as to if they are even worth using as supplementary lighting. go check out that Phoebus Cartel link - that's real shit, bro. maybe then you can come to see a bit of why i'm so anti-traditional lighting.

it's fine with me that people out there want to use aquarium lighting for whatever they want. i have noticed, however, that no production nursery i have ever seen uses aquarium lights. they are all about the same ole same ole MH and such... that being said, if he actually did the side by side... and found out something worthwhile, that would be great!
 
I'm a first timer here and new to the whole forum thing but thought I would chime in cause a few months ago I was thinking about bundying a couple pro420s but couldnt find shit about them. I bought them anyways cause I was ready for a change from 1000w hid. I ran two bubba kush and four called lulu. Iv had these strains for a few years and have always flowered them with a 1000w hps until now and will never do it again. I love my pro 420s. Yield was .8 grams per watt and could have squeezed a lot more. It was my first run and didn't push the limit of lights footprint. Quality was visually better and even finished a few days early. I'll try to get some pics up soon if u guys are interested

Send over some pictures please. I have two 420's cooking one of them has grown my mother over 8 feet tall. I chopped the top off and start a new clone. The second 420 is in a 4x6 room with 6 plants have hit 36 inches in 6 weeks. I am using soil and adding some nuts to it. I will take some pictures before I change over to blooming stage. Then we will find how how they compare to others.
 
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