How Much Koolaid Would A Climate Cook Drink?

K

Keenly

Guest
towlie just wants to argue... you dont want to discuss science you want to discuss politics


like JO said the burden of proof for climate change is not on me, its on the people making the ridiculous claims that global warming is man made

so like i said before

keep ignoring 31,000 scientists including 9,000 PhD's

im sure they are all wrong right?


everyone should be a skeptic

If you are not a skeptic you are not a scientist

im not claiming to be one but this is how science works, it needs to be PROVEN in order for something to be correct, and quite the opposite has taken place


the people pushing this agenda have been proven wrong (not only by climategate but by nature herself)

and thats why they have flip flopped from global warming to climate change

you guys just cant make up your mind...

is the earth warming or is it cooling? cant be both


and what about the sun? according to the climate change hoax the sun has absoloutely no effect on "climate change"

do you really believe that? the radiation levels emitted from the sun causes drastic temperature changes

i cant fucking wait for the new episode of jesse venturas show on wednesday, but of course people will come out wiwht "nuh uh climate change is real al gore said so"
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
hey man, i ain't no scientist, i don't even talk about climate change or global warming...

i'm about reducing pollution, and for me, all that smoke billowing from coal burning plants, and other manufacturing operations counts as pollution...

and there ARE ways to control pollution, there are scrubbers that will reduce emissions... but everyone's too tight with their money to spend it protecting the environment... and BUSH made it slightly easier for companies to get away with this crap under 'routine maintenance' bullshit...... anyways......
 
K

Keenly

Guest
You guys cant seem to seperate these categories in your brains


there is "politics, Media, and Science"


global warming is being pushed for political gain (hidden political agenda you would have to be blind to not see) as well as the media

but the science behind it is not real or accurate


of course the AP is going to come out and push for global warming, its a globalist news media corporation

the people pushing global warming arent going to come out and tell the truth about climategate because it destroys their credibility

the news lies, every day you read your paper or look at your AP articles online your being fed exactly what they want you to hear

they want you to believe in the global warming religion


and they teach you that anyone who doesnt believe is a kook or a crazy or a nutjob

common sense and little awareness of propaganda will open your eyes
 
K

Keenly

Guest
You'll forgive a dolt like me who understands that CO2 is a naturally occurring element.

A dullard who understands that there was a European warming trend that spanned 600 years in the Middle Ages which your experts can't seem to explain away. Let me guess - ox cart emissions, right?

I know 16% of experts on the subject disagree explicitly on the man made component of climate change. Insignificant to you perhaps, but 86% is not enough to convince me to reduce my standard of living and pay a hell of a lot more for just about everything. And you can't wish away those pesky emails. No matter how hard you try.

Ask to me to pay for this international con? Not just no, but Hell no!

The burden of proof is on you.

not only is the shit natural its part of one of the 4 elements of life on this planet

water, sunlight, oxygen, Co2

once you have the power to tax one of the parts of life on this earth, you can control every facet of human life on this earth

gotta buy those carbon offsets
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
you have been given proof, you have seen the the science wasn't pretty, but it certainly isn't fake...

the classic experiment should serve as proof...

put a 100 watt incandecent light bulb in a box with regular air and record it's temperature 1 hr later... turn the light off... let it cool down.... about 1 hr... take the same box, turn the light on... and put a C02 generator in there.... 1 hr later take the temperature again....

which box will be hotter???
 

jeff f

New Member
you have been given proof, you have seen the the science wasn't pretty, but it certainly isn't fake...

the classic experiment should serve as proof...

put a 100 watt incandecent light bulb in a box with regular air and record it's temperature 1 hr later... turn the light off... let it cool down.... about 1 hr... take the same box, turn the light on... and put a C02 generator in there.... 1 hr later take the temperature again....

which box will be hotter???
okay, then answer this, what happens in the box when the top of a mountain blows up and spews bagillions of tons of sulfur, hcl, co2, and a whole bunch of other NATURAL POLLUTANTS? then after that a hurricane occurs in the box and washes a lot of that pollution by putting it into the ground and ocean and returning it to mother earth? what happens inside your box now?

THE EARTH ISNT A STATIC EXPERIMENT IN A BOX IN YOUR FUCKING BASEMENT. i cant believe i even responded to this one.

dude, you are fucking stupid. your sophmoric moronic example proves that.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
actually


there are experiments to test this too

here's how you do it, since you claim that a hurricane will wash down the c02 into the earth and therefore, it's not static...

same experiment as above, the bottom of the box should be full of at least 4 inches of a mix of sterile sand and sterile soil.... make sure you include some drainage....... perform the same experiment, but this time hook up a fish tank waterpump to a tiny sprinkler on top.....

under your theory the c02 will get washed down into the soil........

try it out..... see if you can prove me wrong... dipshit...

every theory has to have an experiment that can validate it... if you're theory is correct, just design an experiment and prove me wrong.... until you do, you're ASSUMING things, there's no FACT behind your argument... cheerz!
 

jeff f

New Member
actually


under your theory the c02 will get washed down into the soil........

!
hey rube, THATS NOT MY FUCKING THEORY!

why cant you understand this concept? you have no idea, none, not even a little, no computer model, no chart that can simulate the unbelievable amount of forces that are acting on the earth. none. and i cant be simulated in a paper box, wholy fuck dude, come on. an earth model made out of a fucking box, and you want me to change my lifestyle because of this? dude, seriously...


we dont even understand sunspots for god sakes, which by the way, there are none at the moment. the sunspots activity apparently has a lot to do with the radiant heat applied to earth. if we dont even understand something so basic, how can you make the leap to humans causing it? YOU CANT. THATS MY POINT!!
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
one volcano spewing 1000 gallons of pollutin into the air once every 1000 years isn't the same as slowly and consistently pumping c02 into the atmosphere... the two get ADDED together

the equations look something like this:

Equation 1:
x/1000 = average yearly amount of pollution from one volcano erupting once every 1000 years...

factor in human-made pollution,

(x + y1000)/1000 = average yearly pollution coming from consistent yearly contamination over 1000 years (1000y) and the random eruption of the same volcano from equation 1...

let's do some MATH!!!

Let: x = 1000 and y = 20

We assume the above numbers are in gallons of contaminants, for context of the numerical experiment....

Using equation 1 we can see:

1000/1000= 1... When a volcano spews it's contaminants once every 1000 years, we can see it spews an average of 1 gallon of contamination for 1000 years....

using equation 2:

1000 + (1000 * 20) / 1000 = 1000 + 20,000 / 1,000 = 21,000/1000 = 21.


the average contamination per year when only a volcano erupts equals one gallon per year for 1000 years. When you add an average of 20 gallons being pumped by some other source per year for a thousand years, you get that the average amount of contaminats per year for 1000 years comming from the volcano, plus the other consistent source of contamination, gives you an average of 21 gallons per year for 1000 years....

i can factor in some sort of scrubbing mechanism too, it would still not look good for you....
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
and i cannot vouch for temperature though, i CAN provide a small example as the one above that does, to some degree, show how man made pollution cannot be compared to an eruption... while they ARE two mutually exclusive events, the pollution spewing from both have to be COMBINED, you can't excuse that one has happened for thousands of years and nothing has happened, because the real increase in pollution came in the last 200 years, there's nothing to compare it to, there is no way to know what's gonna happen....

i can say that if we want things to stay the way they are now, we better stop polluting.... these increases in gases can be seen when you see people using computer models for weather patterns.... suddendly the storm shifts course without explination, the 'without explination' part worries me.... 20 years ago when they said a storm was comming, that shit was comming..... not anymore... there's unusual migrations in fish, insects, and birds...... shit's changing.... and we don't know where it will lead us, but we do know where we've been before...

and for the people that say, UH, I'm NOT PAYING FOR THAT, FUUUUCK THAT!!!....

well, a chinaman burning tires is contaminating the same earth you and I live in, so to not consider it a personal thing is close minded....
 

towlie

Well-Known Member
You'll forgive a dolt like me who understands that CO2 is a naturally occurring element.
Actually no I won’t. History is riddled with examples of science & society in opposition. In every instance peer review has prevailed. Can you think of a single historical example where society and science had conflicting views & science was wrong? If not, why forgive? Your suggestion that the method of critical thinking that brought us out of the dark ages… the method that has provided every development of scientific advancement, is now less reliable than political propaganda is fucking laughable. Furthermore your belief that journalistic accuracy and standards for factual reporting is less reliable than say… Glenn Beck really gives me pause… (pause)… Thank you…

And I keep saying this over and over, but you won’t address the fact that your argument is totally fucking lame. It’s no different than any other conspiracy theory. How is your argument any different than Big-Foot? Seriously. In light of the scientific consensus, you’re not compelled to come up with a better argument than Big-Foot 2.0? And the “16% of experts disagree” bullshit is really fresh. You might want to give a reference the next time you post something so out of mainstream… But really if 10% of astronomers were saying a meteor of biblical proportions was going to take out the earth, I’d shit myself… What’s your number 99.99999% or do you need more 9’s in there?

Also, You keep throwing uncertainty and unknowns as reasons that you would know better than NASA, ESA, and all organized natural sciences. (A play lifted directly from the creationist handbook incidentally.) But let’s get real. It’s quite clear from your posts that you’re not even interested in science… So why do you want to discuss it? Oh wait a minute… You just want to discuss years worth of e-mails reduced into three sound bites… Sadly, it’s quite clear you’re incapable of even discussing these rationally & intellectually.

Furthermore, I keep wondering if when spewing out your “climate change is a money making scheme” theory you ever pause to wonder how much more money & power is pulling in the opposite direction. But then again, fitting the pieces of your conspiracy together is clearly not your interest either…

The burden of proof is on you.
To whom? You? I’ll just be over here with every scientific consortium, every paper of record, every Republican & Democrat senator (except Inhofe, whom his Republican colleagues dubbed ‘the last flat earther’)… every accredited university and public school, every scientific panel, the vast majority of the worlds educated people, etc, etc… Yep. All of us will be over here ignoring you for the rest of your life. Just don’t look surprised when you claim the debate isn’t over and all you hear is crickets. It’s quite clear this train has left the station… but ya’. The burden of proof is on me.
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
HERE are the 100 reasons, released in a dossier issued by the European Foundation, why climate change is natural and not man-made:

1) There is “no real scientific proof” that the current warming is caused by the rise of greenhouse gases from man’s activity.

2) Man-made carbon dioxide emissions throughout human history constitute less than 0.00022 percent of the total naturally emitted from the mantle of the earth during geological history.

3) Warmer periods of the Earth’s history came around 800 years before rises in CO2 levels.

4) After World War II, there was a huge surge in recorded CO2 emissions but global temperatures fell for four decades after 1940.

5) Throughout the Earth’s history, temperatures have often been warmer than now and CO2 levels have often been higher – more than ten times as high.

6) Significant changes in climate have continually occurred throughout geologic time.

7) The 0.7C increase in the average global temperature over the last hundred years is entirely consistent with well-established, long-term, natural climate trends.

8) The IPCC theory is driven by just 60 scientists and favourable reviewers not the 4,000 usually cited.

9) Leaked e-mails from British climate scientists – in a scandal known as “Climate-gate” - suggest that that has been manipulated to exaggerate global warming

10) A large body of scientific research suggests that the sun is responsible for the greater share of climate change during the past hundred years.

11) Politicians and activiists claim rising sea levels are a direct cause of global warming but sea levels rates have been increasing steadily since the last ice age 10,000 ago

12) Philip Stott, Emeritus Professor of Biogeography at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London says climate change is too complicated to be caused by just one factor, whether CO2 or clouds

13) Peter Lilley MP said last month that “fewer people in Britain than in any other country believe in the importance of global warming. That is despite the fact that our Government and our political class—predominantly—are more committed to it than their counterparts in any other country in the world”.

14) In pursuit of the global warming rhetoric, wind farms will do very little to nothing to reduce CO2 emissions

15) Professor Plimer, Professor of Geology and Earth Sciences at the University of Adelaide, stated that the idea of taking a single trace gas in the atmosphere, accusing it and finding it guilty of total responsibility for climate change, is an “absurdity”

16) A Harvard University astrophysicist and geophysicist, Willie Soon, said he is “embarrassed and puzzled” by the shallow science in papers that support the proposition that the earth faces a climate crisis caused by global warming.

17) The science of what determines the earth’s temperature is in fact far from settled or understood.

18) Despite activist concerns over CO2 levels, CO2 is a minor greenhouse gas, unlike water vapour which is tied to climate concerns, and which we can’t even pretend to control

19) A petition by scientists trying to tell the world that the political and media portrayal of global warming is false was put forward in the Heidelberg Appeal in 1992. Today, more than 4,000 signatories, including 72 Nobel Prize winners, from 106 countries have signed it.

20) It is claimed the average global temperature increased at a dangerously fast rate in the 20th century but the recent rate of average global temperature rise has been between 1 and 2 degrees C per century - within natural rates

21) Professor Zbigniew Jaworowski, Chairman of the Scientific Council of the Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection in Warsaw, Poland says the earth’s temperature has more to do with cloud cover and water vapor than CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.

22) There is strong evidence from solar studies which suggests that the Earth’s current temperature stasis will be followed by climatic cooling over the next few decades

23) It is myth that receding glaciers are proof of global warming as glaciers have been receding and growing cyclically for many centuries

24) It is a falsehood that the earth’s poles are warming because that is natural variation and while the western Arctic may be getting somewhat warmer we also see that the Eastern Arctic and Greenland are getting colder

25) The IPCC claims climate driven “impacts on biodiversity are significant and of key relevance” but those claims are simply not supported by scientific research

26) The IPCC threat of climate change to the world’s species does not make sense as wild species are at least one million years old, which means they have all been through hundreds of climate cycles

27) Research goes strongly against claims that CO2-induced global warming would cause catastrophic disintegration of the Greenland and Antarctic Ice Sheets.

28) Despite activist concerns over CO2 levels, rising CO2 levels are our best hope of raising crop yields to feed an ever-growing population

29) The biggest climate change ever experienced on earth took place around 700 million years ago

30) The slight increase in temperature which has been observed since 1900 is entirely consistent with well-established, long-term natural climate cycles

31) Despite activist concerns over CO2 levels, rising CO2 levels of some so-called “greenhouse gases” may be contributing to higher oxygen levels and global cooling, not warming

32) Accurate satellite, balloon and mountain top observations made over the last three decades have not shown any significant change in the long term rate of increase in global temperatures

33) Today’s CO2 concentration of around 385 ppm is very low compared to most of the earth’s history – we actually live in a carbon-deficient atmosphere

34) It is a myth that CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas because greenhouse gases form about 3% of the atmosphere by volume, and CO2 constitutes about 0.037% of the atmosphere

35) It is a myth that computer models verify that CO2 increases will cause significant global warming because computer models can be made to “verify” anything

36) There is no scientific or statistical evidence whatsoever that global warming will cause more storms and other weather extremes

37) One statement deleted from a UN report in 1996 stated that “none of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse gases”

38) The world “warmed” by 0.07 +/- 0.07 degrees C from 1999 to 2008, not the 0.20 degrees C expected by the IPCC

39) The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says “it is likely that future tropical cyclones (typhoons and hurricanes) will become more intense” but there has been no increase in the intensity or frequency of tropical cyclones globally

40) Rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere can be shown not only to have a negligible effect on the Earth’s many ecosystems, but in some cases to be a positive help to many organisms

41) Researchers who compare and contrast climate change impact on civilizations found warm periods are beneficial to mankind and cold periods harmful

42) The Met Office asserts we are in the hottest decade since records began but this is precisely what the world should expect if the climate is cyclical

43) Rising CO2 levels increase plant growth and make plants more resistant to drought and pests

44) The historical increase in the air’s CO2 content has improved human nutrition by raising crop yields during the past 150 years

45) The increase of the air’s CO2 content has probably helped lengthen human lifespans since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution

46) The IPCC alleges that “climate change currently contributes to the global burden of disease and premature deaths” but the evidence shows that higher temperatures and rising CO2 levels has helped global populations

47) In May of 2004, the Russian Academy of Sciences published a report concluding that the Kyoto Protocol has no scientific grounding at all.

48) The “Climate-gate” scandal pointed to a expensive public campaign of disinformation and the denigration of scientists who opposed the belief that CO2 emissions were causing climate change

49) The head of Britain’s climate change watchdog has predicted households will need to spend up to £15,000 on a full energy efficiency makeover if the Government is to meet its ambitious targets for cutting carbon emissions.

50) Wind power is unlikely to be the answer to our energy needs. The wind power industry argues that there are “no direct subsidies” but it involves a total subsidy of as much as £60 per MWh which falls directly on electricity consumers. This burden will grow in line with attempts to achieve Wind power targets, according to a recent OFGEM report.

51) Wind farms are not an efficient way to produce energy. The British Wind Energy Association (BWEA) accepts a figure of 75 per cent back-up power is required.

52) Global temperatures are below the low end of IPCC predictions not at “at the top end of IPCC estimates”

53) Climate alarmists have raised the concern over acidification of the oceans but Tom Segalstad from Oslo University in Norway , and others, have noted that the composition of ocean water – including CO2, calcium, and water – can act as a buffering agent in the acidification of the oceans.

54) The UN’s IPCC computer models of human-caused global warming predict the emergence of a “hotspot” in the upper troposphere over the tropics. Former researcher in the Australian Department of Climate Change, David Evans, said there is no evidence of such a hotspot

55) The argument that climate change is a of result of global warming caused by human activity is the argument of flat Earthers.

56) The manner in which US President Barack Obama sidestepped Congress to order emission cuts shows how undemocratic and irrational the entire international decision-making process has become with regards to emission-target setting.

57) William Kininmonth, a former head of the National Climate Centre and a consultant to the World Meteorological Organisation, wrote “the likely extent of global temperature rise from a doubling of CO2 is less than 1C. Such warming is well within the envelope of variation experienced during the past 10,000 years and insignificant in the context of glacial cycles during the past million years, when Earth has been predominantly very cold and covered by extensive ice sheets.”

58) Canada has shown the world targets derived from the existing Kyoto commitments were always unrealistic and did not work for the country.

59) In the lead up to the Copenhagen summit, David Davis MP said of previous climate summits, at Rio de Janeiro in 1992 and Kyoto in 1997 that many had promised greater cuts, but “neither happened”, but we are continuing along the same lines.

60) The UK ’s environmental policy has a long-term price tag of about £55 billion, before taking into account the impact on its economic growth.

61) The UN’s panel on climate change warned that Himalayan glaciers could melt to a fifth of current levels by 2035. J. Graham Cogley a professor at Ontario Trent University, claims this inaccurate stating the UN authors got the date from an earlier report wrong by more than 300 years.

62) Under existing Kyoto obligations the EU has attempted to claim success, while actually increasing emissions by 13 per cent, according to Lord Lawson. In addition the EU has pursued this scheme by purchasing “offsets” from countries such as China paying them billions of dollars to destroy atmospheric pollutants, such as CFC-23, which were manufactured purely in order to be destroyed.

63) It is claimed that the average global temperature was relatively unchanging in pre-industrial times but sky-rocketed since 1900, and will increase by several degrees more over the next 100 years according to Penn State University researcher Michael Mann. There is no convincing empirical evidence that past climate was unchanging, nor that 20th century changes in average global temperature were unusual or unnatural.

64) Michael Mann of Penn State University has actually shown that the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age did in fact exist, which contrasts with his earlier work which produced the “hockey stick graph” which showed a constant temperature over the past thousand years or so followed by a recent dramatic upturn.

65) The globe’s current approach to climate change in which major industrialised countries agree to nonsensical targets for their CO2 emissions by a given date, as it has been under the Kyoto system, is very expensive.

66) The “Climate-gate” scandal revealed that a scientific team had emailed one another about using a “trick” for the sake of concealing a “decline” in temperatures when looking at the history of the Earth’s temperature.

67) Global temperatures have not risen in any statistically-significant sense for 15 years and have actually been falling for nine years. The “Climate-gate” scandal revealed a scientific team had expressed dismay at the fact global warming was contrary to their predictions and admitted their inability to explain it was “a travesty”.

68) The IPCC predicts that a warmer planet will lead to more extreme weather, including drought, flooding, storms, snow, and wildfires. But over the last century, during which the IPCC claims the world experienced more rapid warming than any time in the past two millennia, the world did not experience significantly greater trends in any of these extreme weather events.

69) In explaining the average temperature standstill we are currently experiencing, the Met Office Hadley Centre ran a series of computer climate predictions and found in many of the computer runs there were decade-long standstills but none for 15 years – so it expects global warming to resume swiftly.

70) Richard Lindzen, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, wrote: “The notion of a static, unchanging climate is foreign to the history of the Earth or any other planet with a fluid envelope. Such hysteria (over global warming) simply represents the scientific illiteracy of much of the public, the susceptibility of the public to the substitution of repetition for truth.”

71) Despite the 1997 Kyoto Protocol’s status as the flagship of the fight against climate change it has been a failure.

72) The first phase of the EU’s Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), which ran from 2005 to 2007 was a failure. Huge over-allocation of permits to pollute led to a collapse in the price of carbon from €33 to just €0.20 per tonne meaning the system did not reduce emissions at all.

73) The EU trading scheme, to manage carbon emissions has completely failed and actually allows European businesses to duck out of making their emissions reductions at home by offsetting, which means paying for cuts to be made overseas instead.

74) To date “cap and trade” carbon markets have done almost nothing to reduce emissions.

75) In the United States , the cap-and-trade is an approach designed to control carbon emissions and will impose huge costs upon American citizens via a carbon tax on all goods and services produced in the United States. The average family of four can expect to pay an additional $1700, or £1,043, more each year. It is predicted that the United States will lose more than 2 million jobs as the result of cap-and-trade schemes.

76) Dr Roy Spencer, a principal research scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, has indicated that out of the 21 climate models tracked by the IPCC the differences in warming exhibited by those models is mostly the result of different strengths of positive cloud feedback – and that increasing CO2 is insufficient to explain global-average warming in the last 50 to 100 years.

77) Why should politicians devote our scarce resources in a globally competitive world to a false and ill-defined problem, while ignoring the real problems the entire planet faces, such as: poverty, hunger, disease or terrorism.

78) A proper analysis of ice core records from the past 650,000 years demonstrates that temperature increases have come before, and not resulted from, increases in CO2 by hundreds of years.

79) Since the cause of global warming is mostly natural, then there is in actual fact very little we can do about it. (We are still not able to control the sun).

80) A substantial number of the panel of 2,500 climate scientists on the United Nation’s International Panel on Climate Change, which created a statement on scientific unanimity on climate change and man-made global warming, were found to have serious concerns.

81) The UK’s Met Office has been forced this year to re-examine 160 years of temperature data after admitting that public confidence in the science on man-made global warming has been shattered by revelations about the data.

82) Politicians and activists push for renewable energy sources such as wind turbines under the rhetoric of climate change, but it is essentially about money – under the system of Renewable Obligations. Much of the money is paid for by consumers in electricity bills. It amounts to £1 billion a year.

83) The “Climate-gate” scandal revealed that a scientific team had tampered with their own data so as to conceal inconsistencies and errors.

84) The “Climate-gate” scandal revealed that a scientific team had campaigned for the removal of a learned journal’s editor, solely because he did not share their willingness to debase science for political purposes.

85) Ice-core data clearly show that temperatures change centuries before concentrations of atmospheric CO2 change. Thus, there appears to be little evidence for insisting that changes in concentrations of CO2 are the cause of past temperature and climate change.

86) There are no experimentally verified processes explaining how CO2 concentrations can fall in a few centuries without falling temperatures – in fact it is changing temperatures which cause changes in CO2 concentrations, which is consistent with experiments that show CO2 is the atmospheric gas most readily absorbed by water.

87) The Government’s Renewable Energy Strategy contains a massive increase in electricity generation by wind power costing around £4 billion a year over the next twenty years. The benefits will be only £4 to £5 billion overall (not per annum). So costs will outnumber benefits by a range of between eleven and seventeen times.

88) Whilst CO2 levels have indeed changed for various reasons, human and otherwise, just as they have throughout history, the CO2 content of the atmosphere has increased since the beginning of the industrial revolution, and the growth rate has now been constant for the past 25 years.

89) It is a myth that CO2 is a pollutant, because nitrogen forms 80% of our atmosphere and human beings could not live in 100% nitrogen either: CO2 is no more a pollutant than nitrogen is and CO2 is essential to life.

90) Politicians and climate activists make claims to rising sea levels but certain members in the IPCC chose an area to measure in Hong Kong that is subsiding. They used the record reading of 2.3 mm per year rise of sea level.

91) The accepted global average temperature statistics used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change show that no ground-based warming has occurred since 1998.

92) If one factors in non-greenhouse influences such as El Nino events and large volcanic eruptions, lower atmosphere satellite-based temperature measurements show little, if any, global warming since 1979, a period over which atmospheric CO2 has increased by 55 ppm (17 per cent).

93) US President Barack Obama pledged to cut emissions by 2050 to equal those of 1910 when there were 92 million Americans. In 2050, there will be 420 million Americans, so Obama’s promise means that emissions per head will be approximately what they were in 1875. It simply will not happen.

94) The European Union has already agreed to cut emissions by 20 percent to 2020, compared with 1990 levels, and is willing to increase the target to 30 percent. However, these are unachievable and the EU has already massively failed with its Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), as EU emissions actually rose by 0.8 percent from 2005 to 2006 and are known to be well above the Kyoto goal.

95) Australia has stated it wants to slash greenhouse emissions by up to 25 percent below 2000 levels by 2020, but the pledges were so unpopular that the country’s Senate has voted against the carbon trading Bill, and the Opposition’s Party leader has now been ousted by a climate change sceptic.

96) Canada plans to reduce emissions by 20 percent compared with 2006 levels by 2020, representing approximately a 3 percent cut from 1990 levels but it simultaneously defends its Alberta tar sands emissions and its record as one of the world’s highest per-capita emissions setters.

97) India plans to reduce the ratio of emissions to production by 20-25 percent compared with 2005 levels by 2020, but all Government officials insist that since India has to grow for its development and poverty alleviation, it has to emit, because the economy is driven by carbon.

98) The Leipzig Declaration in 1996, was signed by 110 scientists who said: “We – along with many of our fellow citizens – are apprehensive about the climate treaty conference scheduled for Kyoto, Japan, in December 1997” and “based on all the evidence available to us, we cannot subscribe to the politically inspired world view that envisages climate catastrophes and calls for hasty actions.”

99) A US Oregon Petition Project stated “We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan in December, 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind. There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of CO2, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.”

100) A report by the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change concluded “We find no support for the IPCC’s claim that climate observations during the twentieth century are either unprecedented or provide evidence of an anthropogenic effect on climate.”
 

abe23

Active Member
This thread amazes me.

You would think that people who grow pot plants in closets would understand what kind of impact a 5 C rise in temperatures would have on food production.

There are many pollutants that occur naturally. Carbon monoxide would be one example.

Burning fossil fuels, as we are doing right now, is not sustainable as a source of energy. So even if you close your eyes to the greenhouse effect and co2 emissions, you need to acknowledge that something has gotta give. I think science will help us overcome this problem at some point and I'm definitely in favor of using more nuclear power, but you guys need to stop deluding yourselves into thinking we can go on doing what we're doing without consequences.

We still have time to start making better decisions, but you need to acknowledge the problem. Check out a book called "collapse" by jared diamond, it's a really good read. He talks about past civilizations that fell apart due to environmental factors.
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
This thread amazes me.

You would think that people who grow pot plants in closets would understand what kind of impact a 5 C rise in temperatures would have on food production.

There are many pollutants that occur naturally. Carbon monoxide would be one example.

Burning fossil fuels, as we are doing right now, is not sustainable as a source of energy. So even if you close your eyes to the greenhouse effect and co2 emissions, you need to acknowledge that something has gotta give. I think science will help us overcome this problem at some point and I'm definitely in favor of using more nuclear power, but you guys need to stop deluding yourselves into thinking we can go on doing what we're doing without consequences.

We still have time to start making better decisions, but you need to acknowledge the problem. Check out a book called "collapse" by jared diamond, it's a really good read. He talks about past civilizations that fell apart due to environmental factors.
Why should we worry when the leak is in your end of the boat?
 

jeff f

New Member
Actually no I won’t. History is riddled with examples of science & society in opposition. In every instance peer review has prevailed. Can you think of a single historical example where society and science had conflicting views & science was wrong? If not, why forgive? Your suggestion that the method of critical thinking that brought us out of the dark ages… the method that has provided every development of scientific advancement, is now less reliable than political propaganda is fucking laughable. Furthermore your belief that journalistic accuracy and standards for factual reporting is less reliable than say… Glenn Beck really gives me pause… (pause)… Thank you…

And I keep saying this over and over, but you won’t address the fact that your argument is totally fucking lame. It’s no different than any other conspiracy theory. How is your argument any different than Big-Foot? Seriously. In light of the scientific consensus, you’re not compelled to come up with a better argument than Big-Foot 2.0? And the “16% of experts disagree” bullshit is really fresh. You might want to give a reference the next time you post something so out of mainstream… But really if 10% of astronomers were saying a meteor of biblical proportions was going to take out the earth, I’d shit myself… What’s your number 99.99999% or do you need more 9’s in there?

Also, You keep throwing uncertainty and unknowns as reasons that you would know better than NASA, ESA, and all organized natural sciences. (A play lifted directly from the creationist handbook incidentally.) But let’s get real. It’s quite clear from your posts that you’re not even interested in science… So why do you want to discuss it? Oh wait a minute… You just want to discuss years worth of e-mails reduced into three sound bites… Sadly, it’s quite clear you’re incapable of even discussing these rationally & intellectually.

Furthermore, I keep wondering if when spewing out your “climate change is a money making scheme” theory you ever pause to wonder how much more money & power is pulling in the opposite direction. But then again, fitting the pieces of your conspiracy together is clearly not your interest either…



To whom? You? I’ll just be over here with every scientific consortium, every paper of record, every Republican & Democrat senator (except Inhofe, whom his Republican colleagues dubbed ‘the last flat earther’)… every accredited university and public school, every scientific panel, the vast majority of the worlds educated people, etc, etc… Yep. All of us will be over here ignoring you for the rest of your life. Just don’t look surprised when you claim the debate isn’t over and all you hear is crickets. It’s quite clear this train has left the station… but ya’. The burden of proof is on me.
hate to tell ya but you are the one behind the curve and time will prove that out.
 

Wordz

Well-Known Member
I go through google news everyday. Here's the first story i read.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2009/12/biden-tells-obama-that-40-million-us-homes-will-have-smart-meters-by-2015-/1 "As of January, he says 8 million homes had such meters, which track energy usage by month, week and even hour." That's my favorite quote. In the name of climate change we'll let them know whenever we're home. They'll be able to see our nice 12 hour spikes in energy. The last chance I'm giving obama is if california legalizes if he stops the dea operations there. I'm so sick of the govt. not listening to the people. I do think marijuana is a huge issue because it shows our govt.'s attitude towards us.
 

jeff f

New Member
I go through google news everyday. Here's the first story i read.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2009/12/biden-tells-obama-that-40-million-us-homes-will-have-smart-meters-by-2015-/1 "As of January, he says 8 million homes had such meters, which track energy usage by month, week and even hour." That's my favorite quote. In the name of climate change we'll let them know whenever we're home. They'll be able to see our nice 12 hour spikes in energy. The last chance I'm giving obama is if california legalizes if he stops the dea operations there. I'm so sick of the govt. not listening to the people. I do think marijuana is a huge issue because it shows our govt.'s attitude towards us.
another related story, dont have a reference but pay attention its out there. they want smart meters for your car so they can charge you by the mile for what you drive. cali talked about it in the summer.

so here is the scenario, i just got laid off and the only job i can find to support my family is 70 miles away. it pays 30% less than my other job but because its farther away the do-gooders green whack jobs are gonna tax me MORE cuz i "pollute". not only do i take a hit on my wages but i get penalized because the only job i can find is far away. its criminal i tell ya, criminal.

words, i aint bullshittin. these people want every ounce of your life regulated.
 
I remeber saying in 02 on air "If they could tax breathing they would. " It was on the Mike Conif show in Aspen.

I'm just blown away that they have figuered out a way to do that and MORE!

Taxing us to the last penny we make. Flippen Hang'em! Hang'em all!

Treasonist fools.
We need ROPE Reform Our Politically Elected
 
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