How Much Koolaid Would A Climate Cook Drink?

towlie

Well-Known Member
why are so many people calling for an independent investigation?
This could be a question regarding UFO's, 911 conspiracy, Big Foot, Creationists, etc.

You may focus on tens of years & thousands of e-mails reduced to a few sound bites taken out of context all you want... While truthfully, there is considerable amount of egg on those scientists face, the only thing informative I've gotten from your discussion is how you literally know nothing about how mathematics is used in science.

The fact remains however, that none of you have the courage to address the absurdity of your argument. When you look at the history of CO2 in science and how long it's been known to be a greenhouse gas and it's historical publishing's in scientific journals... When you view it's acceptance into all branches of the scientific communities and the reasons why it's pretty obvious that your conspiracy theory isn't nearly as good as the 911 theory... And I'm being a 100% serious here.
 

jeff f

New Member
This could be a question regarding UFO's, 911 conspiracy, Big Foot, Creationists, etc.

You may focus on tens of years & thousands of e-mails reduced to a few sound bites taken out of context all you want... While truthfully, there is considerable amount of egg on those scientists face, the only thing informative I've gotten from your discussion is how you literally know nothing about how mathematics is used in science.

The fact remains however, that none of you have the courage to address the absurdity of your argument. When you look at the history of CO2 in science and how long it's been known to be a greenhouse gas and it's historical publishing's in scientific journals... When you view it's acceptance into all branches of the scientific communities and the reasons why it's pretty obvious that your conspiracy theory isn't nearly as good as the 911 theory... And I'm being a 100% serious here.
so when we breath we pollute? when my dog farts, he pollutes? when lighteneing starts a forest fire, that pollutes? hmmm, and you call me dumb
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
so when we breath we pollute? when my dog farts, he pollutes? when lighteneing starts a forest fire, that pollutes? hmmm, and you call me dumb
technically, that's true. but the impact is very small. except in the case of cows.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
This could be a question regarding UFO's, 911 conspiracy, Big Foot, Creationists, etc.

You may focus on tens of years & thousands of e-mails reduced to a few sound bites taken out of context all you want... While truthfully, there is considerable amount of egg on those scientists face, the only thing informative I've gotten from your discussion is how you literally know nothing about how mathematics is used in science.

The fact remains however, that none of you have the courage to address the absurdity of your argument. When you look at the history of CO2 in science and how long it's been known to be a greenhouse gas and it's historical publishing's in scientific journals... When you view it's acceptance into all branches of the scientific communities and the reasons why it's pretty obvious that your conspiracy theory isn't nearly as good as the 911 theory... And I'm being a 100% serious here.
entire nations are calling for investigations of climategate


so dont fucking replace the real argument with UFO's and the 9/11 truth movement
 

ChChoda

Well-Known Member
Ok, then....

1- What slush fund are we referring to? Governments get their revenue through taxes on individuals and businesses and if they think economic growth will suffer if we try to reduce gas emissions, how would it be in their interest to do that? Wouldn't they end up loosing revenue? I'll give you that it is in the interest of some researchers and environmental groups to exaggerate their findings (a bit like we all like to exaggerate the benefits of MMJ to suit our cause) but for them to be fabricating this entire is pretty far fetched. But ok....
Desertification in the sahel is just one example and I brought it up because I've seen it first hand, but it's pretty clear that the climate is changing and there are other examples. The question is whether human activity is mainly responsible and the answer seems to be yes.

2 - Yes, there was skepticism about the theory of evolution when darwin first wrote about it. Then it caught on. Today, there are still some morons out there who believe in creationism and most of them agree with you that climate change is a big hoax.

3- Uh huh. Couldn't agree more. But it's the same cretins on the right mouthing off on this issue who were Bush's biggest cheerleaders in 2003. Since january of this year, they are suddenly questioning everything....

4- So is it corruption whenever a government (with it's political agenda) gives funding to a university or research institute? Because in that case, academia is corrupt to the core....

5- Yes, I'm lucky to be living in the west. But the point was that I haven't learned anything about politics from TV, as keenly had suggested, because I don't own one. Or a car, you pedantic, albeit amusing, prick.
Historically, the UN general fund, and now, with the Marxist "greens" unilaterally holding the reigns of American power, that echoing cob webbed covered citadel, Fort Knox. And deserts predate man by, at least a decade or so.

The church's position on man made global warming is actually your own position. You, too, must be a man of great faith. Your God just gores, pun intended, by another name.

What ever happened to, "dissent is the highest form of patriotism"?

To the core; yes.

How about a stove? A pair of Birkenstocks? Maybe a fridge? A hot water heater? A hemp anklet? Light bulbs? Vaseline? Carpeted flooring? A "Bush=Hitler" bumper sticker on your tricycle? A toilet? A velcro wallet? What? What?

:eyesmoke:
 

towlie

Well-Known Member
so dont fucking replace the real argument with UFO's and the 9/11 truth movement
Jesus. What kind of Fucktarded English teacher taught you that 'UFO' is the subject of the sentence: "Your conspiracy theory is as nonsensical as UFO's."???

Seriously... What more can I say to someone who can't even comprehend a simple question?

The fact remains however, that none of you have the courage to address the absurdity of your argument. When you look at the history of CO2 in science and how long it's been known to be a greenhouse gas and it's historical publishing's in scientific journals... When you view it's acceptance into all branches of the scientific communities and the reasons why it's pretty obvious that your conspiracy theory isn't nearly as good as the 911 theory...

Anyone else want to try? It's over this dude's head...
 

towlie

Well-Known Member
so when we breath we pollute? when my dog farts, he pollutes? when lighteneing starts a forest fire, that pollutes? hmmm, and you call me dumb
No. I didn't call you dumb. But given the level of your response, I'm more than willing to take you at your word.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
Jesus. What kind of Fucktarded English teacher taught you that 'UFO' is the subject of the sentence: "Your conspiracy theory is as nonsensical as UFO's."???

Seriously... What more can I say to someone who can't even comprehend a simple question?

The fact remains however, that none of you have the courage to address the absurdity of your argument. When you look at the history of CO2 in science and how long it's been known to be a greenhouse gas and it's historical publishing's in scientific journals... When you view it's acceptance into all branches of the scientific communities and the reasons why it's pretty obvious that your conspiracy theory isn't nearly as good as the 911 theory...

Anyone else want to try? It's over this dude's head...

you can keep your head in the sand all you want, still doesnt change the fact that data was modified

climate change is being used much more politically than scientifically... the movement has been hijacked
 

jeff f

New Member
The fact remains however, that none of you have the courage to address the absurdity of your argument. When you look at the history of CO2 in science and how long it's been known to be a greenhouse gas and it's historical publishing's in scientific journals... When you view it's acceptance into all branches of the scientific communities and the reasons why it's pretty obvious that your conspiracy theory isn't nearly as good as the 911 theory...

Anyone else want to try? It's over this dude's head...
yes, and i remember when we used to think the earth is flat....dude, you dont exhale pollution :finger: i dont give a fuck what kind of NON science you are studying but you are not gonna win. the truth always prevails. you are a puppet.
 

jessica15

New Member
man, conservatives are gullible fools! :wall:they will believe anything limbaugh spews out of his arrogant fat mouth. :wall:







stump a conservative sheeple:

ask them to show you the evidence that CLIMATE CHANGE is a hoax!
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
man, conservatives are gullible fools! :wall:they will believe anything limbaugh spews out of his arrogant fat mouth. :wall:

stump a conservative sheeple:

ask them to show you the evidence that CLIMATE CHANGE is a hoax!
You have it backwards. The burden of proof is on those who claim that Climate Change is Man Made. It is impossible to prove a negative.

Skeptics have said for years that the models were using flawed data intended to reach predetermined conclusions, that the peer-review process was a farce because skeptics were shunned, and that global temperatures have not risen since 1998.

The emails provided by the whistle blower is the smoking gun.

The fact that the Warmers continue to dismiss skeptics objections indicates they plan to move forward with the hoax regardless of the brouhaha.

This is because this whole scam is not about Climate Change at all.

Gullible is as gullible does.
 

towlie

Well-Known Member
you can keep your head in the sand all you want, still doesnt change the fact that data was modified

I already addressed this issue. Once again, you addressed the question you wished I asked instead of the question I really did.

So I'm left wondering, are you really so stupid that you don't understand it, or so brainwashed that you can't respond to it?
 

towlie

Well-Known Member
You have it backwards. The burden of proof is on those who claim that Climate Change is Man Made. It is impossible to prove a negative.
Jesus Cum Drinking Christ! This thread really speaks volumes about our educational system.

The burden of proof for climate scientists is on other scientists (not some ignorant hack pushing conspiracy theories on the internet.) Hint: See NASA, ESA, the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, as well as the Academies of Science, General science, Earth sciences, Meteorology and oceanography, Paleoclimatology, Biology and life sciences, as well as all scientific journals...

You've already admitted that all branches of science are corrupt (a mind blowing, historically unprecidented theory by the way.) Therefore the burden of proof lies on you. In the words of Carl Sagan "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Seriously... What kind of dolt thinks that an accepted theory that spans all natural and physical sciences, all global climatological research centers, all intergovernmental panels, as well as society in general... What kind of dolt thinks society is required to prove his conspiracy theory wrong? I know... Every UFO, 911, Big-Foot, Climate Gate, Evolution conspiracy theorist nut job on the internet.

So do you have the courage to explain your conspiracy theory? Did it start with Swedish physicist Svante Arrhenius in 1896... or perhaps it was when CO2 was found to be a green house gas in 1860.

The reason I keep asking this, and all of you conspiracy theory nuts keep refusing to answer it, is because you'll sound fucking ridiculous if you actually explain your argument... And why none of you have the courage to defend your argument... I'm so impressed.
 

towlie

Well-Known Member
yes, and i remember when we used to think the earth is flat....
Really? You remember when Eratosthenes calculated the earths circumference within 1% accuracy 2,300 years ago?

Scientists have known the earth is curved for a long time. And ignorant uneducated fools thought they knew better...

Great example by the way.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
Jesus Cum Drinking Christ! This thread really speaks volumes about our educational system.

The burden of proof for climate scientists is on other scientists (not some ignorant hack pushing conspiracy theories on the internet.) Hint: See NASA, ESA, the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, as well as the Academies of Science, General science, Earth sciences, Meteorology and oceanography, Paleoclimatology, Biology and life sciences, as well as all scientific journals...

You've already admitted that all branches of science are corrupt (a mind blowing, historically unprecidented theory by the way.) Therefore the burden of proof lies on you. In the words of Carl Sagan "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Seriously... What kind of dolt thinks that an accepted theory that spans all natural and physical sciences, all global climatological research centers, all intergovernmental panels, as well as society in general... What kind of dolt thinks society is required to prove his conspiracy theory wrong? I know... Every UFO, 911, Big-Foot, Climate Gate, Evolution conspiracy theorist nut job on the internet.

So do you have the courage to explain your conspiracy theory? Did it start with Swedish physicist Svante Arrhenius in 1896... or perhaps it was when CO2 was found to be a green house gas in 1860.

The reason I keep asking this, and all of you conspiracy theory nuts keep refusing to answer it, is because you'll sound fucking ridiculous if you actually explain your argument... And why none of you have the courage to defend your argument... I'm so impressed.
You'll forgive a dolt like me who understands that CO2 is a naturally occurring element.

A dullard who understands that there was a European warming trend that spanned 600 years in the Middle Ages which your experts can't seem to explain away. Let me guess - ox cart emissions, right?

I know 16% of experts on the subject disagree explicitly on the man made component of climate change. Insignificant to you perhaps, but 86% is not enough to convince me to reduce my standard of living and pay a hell of a lot more for just about everything. And you can't wish away those pesky emails. No matter how hard you try.

Ask to me to pay for this international con? Not just no, but Hell no!

The burden of proof is on you.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091212/ap_on_sc/climate_e_mails

AP IMPACT: Science not faked, but not pretty



AP – This Dec. 10, 2009 photo shows a sign at the University of East Anglia in Norwich, England. E-mails stolen …





BY SETH BORENSTEIN, RAPHAEL SATTER and MALCOLM RITTER, Associated Press Writers Seth Borenstein, Raphael Satter And Malcolm Ritter, Associated Press Writers – 3 mins ago
LONDON – E-mails stolen from climate scientists show they stonewalled skeptics and discussed hiding data — but the messages don't support claims that the science of global warming was faked, according to an exhaustive review by The Associated Press.
The 1,073 e-mails examined by the AP show that scientists harbored private doubts, however slight and fleeting, even as they told the world they were certain about climate change. However, the exchanges don't undercut the vast body of evidence showing the world is warming because of man-made greenhouse gas emissions.

The scientists were keenly aware of how their work would be viewed and used, and, just like politicians, went to great pains to shape their message. Sometimes, they sounded more like schoolyard taunts than scientific tenets.
The scientists were so convinced by their own science and so driven by a cause "that unless you're with them, you're against them," said Mark Frankel, director of scientific freedom, responsibility and law at the American Association for the Advancement of Science. He also reviewed the communications.
Frankel saw "no evidence of falsification or fabrication of data, although concerns could be raised about some instances of very 'generous interpretations.'"
Some e-mails expressed doubts about the quality of individual temperature records or why models and data didn't quite match. Part of this is the normal give-and-take of research, but skeptics challenged how reliable certain data was.
The e-mails were stolen from the computer network server of the climate research unit at the University of East Anglia in southeast England, an influential source of climate science, and were posted online last month. The university shut down the server and contacted the police.
The AP studied all the e-mails for context, with five reporters reading and rereading them — about 1 million words in total.
One of the most disturbing elements suggests an effort to avoid sharing scientific data with critics skeptical of global warming. It is not clear if any data was destroyed; two U.S. researchers denied it.
The e-mails show that several mainstream scientists repeatedly suggested keeping their research materials away from opponents who sought it under American and British public records law. It raises a science ethics question because free access to data is important so others can repeat experiments as part of the scientific method. The University of East Anglia is investigating the blocking of information requests.
"I believe none of us should submit to these 'requests,'" declared the university's Keith Briffa. The center's chief, Phil Jones, wrote: "Data is covered by all the agreements we sign with people, so I will be hiding behind them."
When one skeptic kept filing FOI requests, Jones, who didn't return AP requests for comment, told another scientist, Michael Mann: "You can delete this attachment if you want. Keep this quiet also, but this is the person who is putting FOI requests for all e-mails Keith (Briffa) and Tim (Osborn) have written."
Mann, a researcher at Penn State University, told The Associated Press: "I didn't delete any e-mails as Phil asked me to. I don't believe anybody else did."
The e-mails also show how professional attacks turned very personal. When former London financial trader Douglas J. Keenan combed through the data used in a 1990 research paper Jones had co-authored, Keenan claimed to have found evidence of fakery by Jones' co-author. Keenan threatened to have the FBI arrest University at Albany scientist Wei-Chyung Wang for fraud. (A university investigation later cleared him of any wrongdoing.)
"I do now wish I'd never sent them the data after their FOIA request!" Jones wrote in June 2007.
In another case after initially balking on releasing data to a skeptic because it was already public, Lawrence Livermore National Lab scientist Ben Santer wrote that he then opted to release everything the skeptic wanted — and more. Santer said in a telephone interview that he and others are inundated by frivolous requests from skeptics that are designed to "tie-up government-funded scientists."
The e-mails also showed a stunning disdain for global warming skeptics.
One scientist practically celebrates the news of the death of one critic, saying, "In an odd way this is cheering news!" Another bemoans that the only way to deal with skeptics is "continuing to publish quality work in quality journals (or calling in a Mafia hit.)" And a third scientist said the next time he sees a certain skeptic at a scientific meeting, "I'll be tempted to beat the crap out of him. Very tempted."
And they compared contrarians to communist-baiting Sen. Joseph McCarthy and Somali pirates. They also called them out-and-out frauds.
Santer, who received death threats after his work on climate change in 1996, said Thursday: "I'm not surprised that things are said in the heat of the moment between professional colleagues. These things are taken out of context."
When the journal, Climate Research, published a skeptical study, Penn State scientist Mann discussed retribution this way: "Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal."
That skeptical study turned out to be partly funded by the American Petroleum Institute.
The most provocative e-mails are usually about one aspect of climate science: research from a decade ago that studied how warm or cold it was centuries ago through analysis of tree rings, ice cores and glacial melt. And most of those e-mails, which stretch from 1996 to last month, are from about a handful of scientists in dozens of e-mails.
Still, such research has been a key element in measuring climate change over long periods.
As part of the AP review, summaries of the e-mails that raised issues from the potential manipulation of data to intensely personal attacks were sent to seven experts in research ethics, climate science and science policy.
"This is normal science politics, but on the extreme end, though still within bounds," said Dan Sarewitz, a science policy professor at Arizona State University. "We talk about science as this pure ideal and the scientific method as if it is something out of a cookbook, but research is a social and human activity full of all the failings of society and humans, and this reality gets totally magnified by the high political stakes here."
In the past three weeks since the e-mails were posted, longtime opponents of mainstream climate science have repeatedly quoted excerpts of about a dozen e-mails. Republican congressmen and former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin have called for either independent investigations, a delay in U.S. Environmental Protection Agency regulation of greenhouse gases or outright boycotts of the Copenhagen international climate talks. They cited a "culture of corruption" that the e-mails appeared to show.
That is not what the AP found. There were signs of trying to present the data as convincingly as possible.
One e-mail that skeptics have been citing often since the messages were posted online is from Jones. He says: "I've just completed Mike's (Mann) trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (from 1981 onward) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline."
Jones was referring to tree ring data that indicated temperatures after the 1950s weren't as warm as scientists had determined.
The "trick" that Jones said he was borrowing from Mann was to add the real temperatures, not what the tree rings showed. And the decline he talked of hiding was not in real temperatures, but in the tree ring data which was misleading, Mann explained.
Sometimes the data didn't line up as perfectly as scientists wanted.
David Rind told colleagues about inconsistent figures in the work for a giant international report: "As this continuing exchange has clarified, what's in Chapter 6 is inconsistent with what is in Chapter 2 (and Chapter 9 is caught in the middle!). Worse yet, we've managed to make global warming go away! (Maybe it really is that easy...:)."
But in the end, global warming didn't go away, according to the vast body of research over the years.
None of the e-mails flagged by the AP and sent to three climate scientists viewed as moderates in the field changed their view that global warming is man-made and a threat. Nor did it alter their support of the conclusions of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which some of the scientists helped write.

"My overall interpretation of the scientific basis for (man-made) global warming is unaltered by the contents of these e-mails," said Gabriel Vecchi, a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration scientist.
Gerald North, a climate scientist at Texas A&M University, headed a National Academy of Sciences study that looked at — and upheld as valid — Mann's earlier studies that found the 1990s were the hottest years in centuries.
"In my opinion the meaning is much more innocent than might be perceived by others taken out of context. Much of this is overblown," North said.
Mann contends he always has been upfront about uncertainties, pointing to the title of his 1999 study: "Northern Hemisphere Temperatures During the Past Millennium: Inferences, Uncertainties and Limitations."
Several scientists found themselves tailoring their figures or retooling their arguments to answer online arguments — even as they claimed not to care what was being posted to the Internet
"I don't read the blogs that regularly," Jonathan Overpeck of the University of Arizona wrote in 2005. "But I guess the skeptics are making hay of their (sic) being a global warm (sic) event around 1450AD."
One person singled out for criticism in the e-mails is Steve McIntyre, who maintains Climate Audit. The blog focuses on statistical issues with scientists' attempts to recreate the climate in ancient times.
"We find that the authors are overreaching in the conclusions that they're trying to draw from the data that they have," McIntyre said in a telephone interview.
McIntyre, 62, of Toronto, was trained in math and economics and says he is "substantially retired" from the mineral exploration industry, which produces greenhouse gases.
Some e-mails said McIntyre's attempts to get original data from scientists are frivolous and meant more for harassment than doing good science. There are allegations that he would distort and misuse data given to him.
McIntyre disagreed with how he is portrayed. "Everything that I've done in this, I've done in good faith," he said.
He also said he has avoided editorializing on the leaked e-mails. "Anything I say," he said, "is liable to be piling on."
The skeptics started the name-calling said Mann, who called McIntyre a "bozo," a "fraud" and a "moron" in various e-mails.
"We're human," Mann said. "We've been under attack unfairly by these people who have been attempting to dismiss us as frauds as liars."
The AP is mentioned several times in the e-mails, usually in reference to a published story. One scientist says his remarks were reported with "a bit of journalistic license" and "I would have rephrased or re-expressed some of what was written if I had seen it before it was released." The archive also includes a request from an AP reporter, one of the writers of this story, for reaction to a study, a standard step for journalists seeking quotes for their stories.
___
Associated Press writers Jeff Donn in Boston, Justin Pritchard in Los Angeles contributed to this report. Troy Thibodeaux in Washington provided technical assistance. Satter reported from London, Borenstein from Washington and Ritter from New York.



let's see how they 'explain' this.......
 

jeff f

New Member
okay then, they said its real i guess its real!! awesome you guys just set me straight.

now, could you just answer me one question, what is the "perfect" temperature for the earth and what science did you use to determine it? okay, maybe a second question, has the earths temperature always been the "perfect" temperature since man has been here? okay, that begs a third question, EXACTLY how hot does it need to get to have a negative effect on human life? OMG this leads me to another series of pertinent questions but in the interest of saving human civilization i will limit it to just 3.

you answer those questions and i will gladly hand over all my freedoms to a bunch of political hacks from the UN. until then, take your fake science worship it, caress it, make mad passionate love to it. BUT LEAVE ME AND MY FAMILY THE FUCK ALONE!!
 
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