Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by Al B. Fuct, Feb 18, 2007.

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    grandpabear3 New Member

    ok al...i'm almost done now.
    i've got the 6"exhaust hood in the ceiling ducted to the intake on my centrif 426 cfm inline then on the discharge side i want to neck down to a 3" so i can plug it into my combo carbon filter/o3 gen by sunlight sheds.
    1.- Can i lay this carbon filter on it's side and it'll still work properly?
    2.- will i hurt the fan or filter trying to push that much air through them. ( you know with the drastic reduction in size )
    Al B. Fuct

    Al B. Fuct once had a dog named

    The pots are 175mm dia on the top and 130mm on the bottom. 23 fit in each tray. That's another correction you'd find if you just read the whole thread.

    Absolute crap. Total bullshit. Ought to be illegal to try to sell a handful of LEDs as a replacement for a 400HPS. There's so much wrong with these that I'm not even going to start on the list. There's a reason that these lamps don't have a lumen rating. If they did, you'd find they put out about 10% of the intensity of a CFL and about 0.25% of the intensity of a 400HPS (based on the very brightest LEDs made, the Philips Luxeon line, which make 140 lumens [and incidentally, the lamp you cite does NOT use Philips Luxeons] CFLs at about 1500 lumens and a 400HPS at 55,000 lumens).

    Remember that lumens from multiple light sources don't 'add.' A pair of 140 lumen LEDs lighting the same area will apply 140 lumens to the area, not 280. Same goes for any multiple light sources. Putting dim lights next to dim lights does not give you brighter light- it gives you more sources of dim light over a certain area. If this multiple LED lamp used Luxeons, its luminous output would still not exceed the lumen rating of a single Luxeon LED.

    The short answer is 'yes- too good to be true.' LEDs are very expensive toys- and you won't grow any dope with them. Anyone who thinks they will grow dope is a fool. You'd be better off trying to grow with candlelight- at least you'd get some CO2...

    I'm rarely this unequivocal on matters asked of me, but I'm a bit sick of both the idiots selling this garbage and the nongs on cannabis boards trying to convince others that they actually will work in the manner advertised. They don't.

    LEDs have a future in lighting- whether that will include lights which can grow cannabis at some time in the distant future or not remains to be seen, but the simple fact is that right now, there's no such thing as an LED light that will grow cannabis successfully. Anyone taking your money for such items is a thief, plain and simple. Consider yourself warned. If you buy LEDs to grow dope, you'll get some interesting looking lights but no dope.

    If you want to grow buds, select the most powerful single HPS you can use in your space and still control temps below 26C. Cooltubes make this deadset easy.

    You'll block about 75% of your airflow if you try to run a 6" centrif into a 3" dia duct. Find something better suited to the size of the blower.

    Use a separate blower for your aircooled hood and the main room exhaust. Air cooled lighting requires constant airflow during lights on, plus a 15 minute cooldown time after lights shut down. You can not use a thermostat on a blower which is cooling lighting. It will have to run all the time during lights-on, regardless of the room air temp. You will not be able to control room temps if you use your main blower to cool lighting. Room temp will be whatever the intake air temp is, plus a couple degrees C.
    Last edited: May 20, 2008

    dakevs Active Member

    I'm a little confused about transitioning the cuttings from mother, to clonebox, then to flowering tray.

    I understand that after making your cutting, you put them in rockwool cubes, in the clonebox, with water only, with just a little bit of H202 @ 5.8 PH.

    However, how long do clones stay in the clonebox? Also, I noticed you placed the rockwool cubes in another type of growing medium in the flowering trays. Is that perlite? About how much do you use? I myself was thinking of starting with one 4' x 4' flowering tray. So how much do you think I should buy initially?

    Ok, and finally, I am kind of torn between using this an aeroponic system. What type of feeding system do you use?

    Sorry if you have already covered these questions already... I got to about page 30 before I couldn't take it any longer. :mrgreen:
    Al B. Fuct

    Al B. Fuct once had a dog named

    I've covered these questions several, several times in the thread.

    The medium is Fytocell, the mums and flowering plants are in flood systems and the clones stay in the clonebox until they have a decent spray of roots. First roots appear in 5-7 days; profuse root formation occurs usually by day 14 in the clonebox.
    Last edited: May 20, 2008

    potroast Uses the Rollitup profile Staff Member

    Well, I couldn't find an answer to this one, and I read for 12 minutes.

    I heard you should put your leaves in a grocery shopping bag to dry, and I don't have that many leaves, so can I use a lunch bag instead?

    Since this has turned into a Ask Al thread, do you want me to close it and sticky it? The full story of the perpetual system is here, and the longer you drag it out, the tougher it is for folks to find the info.

    Al B. Fuct

    Al B. Fuct once had a dog named

    potroast, the answers DO exist in the thread.

    From post#1, page #1:

    From page 27:

    Again, from post #1, page #1:

    If dakevs HAD actually read even post #1, two of his queries would have been answered. If he actually did read the first 30 pages, he would have answered them all.

    Can you understand my frustration? Yes, it's annoying when people won't do the minimal information collection. I didn't write it because I wanted people to skip over it then feel free to abuse my courtesy in getting me to rewrite the entire response later on.

    However, you're dead right, it's far too long to be a useful reference. I've been thinking of exactly how to migrate the meat into a more usable reference, perhaps as a FAQ item.

    Yep, I do think it could be time to slam the door and do something else. If that means an 'Ask Al' thread, sure... but quite honestly, I'm most competent when dealing with queries about a rotating SoG. I don't really think I want to try to answer any question about any kind of op. Within this thread, I can reasonably specialise.

    I'm focused on growing useful amounts of quality dope without the grow op owning me. I have distilled it down into a means which does not produce the highest number of grams per sq metre, but it does produce lots of bud reliably with the smallest effort input possible.

    What's the solution? Dunno.
    Last edited: May 21, 2008

    Squeechie Active Member

    Al, what is the correct way to top off a nutes tank?
    I lose about 2 gals a day in a 20 gal tank. So i add back the 2 gals then ph adj the whole tank. Im thinking that that is causing a serious problem, cause by day 7 i've add about 10 gals of tap water with ppm of 170, and diluted my nutes strength from 1400 down to bout 1100. Im starting to think that im turning my tank into hardwater and probably locking out other nutes, because in the 2nd week of the same nutes, all hell breaks lose (new leaves/shoots turn limegreen more and more everyday, leaves start to taco up, growth slows down to a halt, etc.)

    Should i just top off back to 1400 ppm and then ph adj?
    What happens when im down 2 gals and my ppm still reads 1400.. Are my plants drinking and feeding at the perfect rate? Do I not top off?

    Thank You.

    Squeechie Active Member

    One more...
    Will lowering the times per day i feed, and dropping the flood level help to slow down the rate of lose in the nutes tank? I really am trying to make a 20 gal tank last for 2 wks instead of one. you know what i mean..:lol:

    Squeechie Active Member

    well dakevs i guess your straw was the straw that broke the camels back.(Not mines). Well Al, we all love you.. Thanks
    Al B. Fuct

    Al B. Fuct once had a dog named

    Under normal conditions, growing tips should be light, lime green. That's the active growth. When a leaf reaches the final size it will be, it'll turn darker.

    'Leaves taco up' and slow growth has me worried, though. What's your temp & RH? What's the medium? How often do you water and by what system? Could you be overwatering?

    If you're dumping & cleaning every 2 weeks, there will be no ongoing accumulation of tapwater minerals. Topping up over 2 weeks for your system should not result in a significant accumulation of mineral salts.

    To test that theory, you might put a bucket of tapwater right under the lights and top it up as it drops from evaporation. Make some notes as to how much you're replacing, at what ppm, etc. I bet you find the accumulation of minerals is insignificant. At very least, you'd have to replace the entire volume of the bucket once to get the intrinsic ppm to double.



    If your tank is precisely matched to the needs of the plant, the amt of water used and the amt of nutes used will remain in constant proportion. Don't top up. Ck pH- but don't be overexuberant about correcting. If you're in rockwool, it may drift up .1 every day or two. You may have to adjust 2x per wk, or if it drifts up much over 6.0.

    If the res tank is too small, where the proportion of water is used faster than the proportion of nutes, ppm will rise. Top up is needed to control nute strength.

    A tank that is too large is wasteful as the plants consumption won't come close to the amt of nutes in the tank- and it goes down the drain in 2 weeks, regardless.

    Well, you're kinda asking 'how do I make a fuel-efficient race car?' :lol:

    If plants are growing vigorously, they will be consuming the water in their medium at great rates. The faster they're sucking it up, the better they're doing. Ideally, they are using up 1/2 to 2/3 of the water weight in each pot before they are watered again. Depriving them of necessary waterings will slow them down. If you need your tank to last 2 weeks and it's near empty at the end of 1, get a tank 2x the size you have now.

    The camel's back ain't broke just yet, but there's probably a change in format (or an Al B. holiday) in the offing.
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
    9inch bigbud

    9inch bigbud Well-Known Member

    i agree with you to a point. 2 - 400watt lamps will give better light coverage than a 1000watt lamp + they can be hung much lower than a 1000watt lamp. the light from a lamp 1foot from the bulb will only be 1/2 as bright as it is at the source. light loses intensity very fast the farther away it is. ( see pic at the bottom)

    recommended distance a 1000watt lamp should be hung from the top of the plants is around 2 foot, a 10000watt lamp at 2 foot will only shine 1/4th of the light from the source ie bulb.

    so a 1000watt lamp that is 150,000 lumen is only shining 37500 lumens
    at 2 foot away from the bulb

    the recommended distance a 400watt lamp should be hung from the top of the plants is around 1 foot for a 400watt lamp
    1 foot will shine 1/2 the amount of lumens of light from the bulb

    so a 400watt lamp that is 50,0000 lumen is only shining 25,000 lumens at 1 foot away from the bulb.

    now for the good part. you have 2 - 400 watt lamps that are in the same size room hung at 1/2 the distance of the 1000watt lamp, not only is it lower, the coverage of the plant canopy is much better than what the 1000watt will cover.

    remember that light losses intensity from the bulb
    the plants on the out side of the grow room under a 1000watt will only be getting (4x4 grow room) 1/16th of light or 9,375 lumens.

    where as 2 - 400watt lamps in the same space will be hung over 2x2 space each. lets use the 25,000 lumen only from just the 1 - 400watt lamp the lumens will be more than 25,000 if you use the 2 - 400s it will not be double ,but it will be more than 25,000 lumens,[​IMG]

    1 - 400watt lamp over 2x2 foot of room will shine 25,000 lumen at one foot above the plant canopy and the plants on the out side of the canopy will be getting light 2 foot from the bulb because the 400watt is hung at only 1 foot above, the plants on the end will be getting 1/2 of the light from the original 25,000 lumens 25,000 divided 2 = 12,500 lumens

    even though the 400's look the better option on paper it does not always work like that, the penetration under a 1000 watt bulb can grow heavier buds under the canopy than the 400s its that extra 12,500 lumens under the bulb and that massive bud production which makes up for the better coverage that the 2-400s offer.

    the 1000 watt is the better option because after 1 crop the light of both bulbs diminish and after a few crops the 400s will not be very bright where as the 1000 will still grow fat ass buds.

    over the long run its more economical to replace 1 bulb than it is to replace 2.
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
    Al B. Fuct

    Al B. Fuct once had a dog named

    ...and when you add cooltubes, where a 1000HPS can be spaced at 300-350mm, it's more desirable yet. Something on the order of 80K lumens at that spacing.
    9inch bigbud

    9inch bigbud Well-Known Member

    could not agree more:hump: i used to use 5-400's but now i only use 2-600s and 1-1000 in the 2nd room the 2 600s do not yield much more than the 1000watt on its own.

    the 2-600s light a room about 24sq and the 1000 does a 16sq i might get a few more grams under the 2-600s
    Last edited: May 21, 2008

    rdgx34 Active Member

    Hey al

    Grow Marijuana FAQ, Cannabis cultivation - marijuana growing tips & photos

    if you scroll to the bottem it shows his nutes chart. He starts from about 1050ppm(1.5ec) and slowly works up to about 1470ppm. And you start from 1400ppm all the way through. Is there pros and cons to this? or does it even really matter?

    Also Im sorry but im a big time noob and im still not sure about mother plants and how to make the stems thicker. when you say cut the growing tip are you talking about the MAIN thick stem in the middle or the stems that come out of that main stem. And do you cut right before the leaves, so the leaves fall off of it?

    Al B. Fuct

    Al B. Fuct once had a dog named

    Clones are mature plants, albeit with a new root system. They can handle 1400ppm from the get-go, no ramp-up required.

    Seedlings, on the other hand, are a bit more delicate and should be ramped up, starting at about 500-800ppm and jumping a couple 100 ppm every week or so until you're at 1400.


    Have a look at my thread on cloning. Pix there.

    firsttimegrowerr Well-Known Member

    AL! I finnaly got most of my equipment in!
    I have 4 3x3 flood systems the reseviors are 30gallons each
    But i was wondering if i could just use two systems with 1 resevior?
    So that way instead of changing 4 reseviors every 2 weeks i can just change 2.

    Ill post some pictures when i get everything set up
    Thanks AL!

    rdgx34 Active Member

    And do you cut right before the leaves, so the leaves fall off of it?
    Have a look at my thread on cloning. Pix there.

    Sorry I meant when you cut the main stems not cloning, Do you cut the main stem at the end where the leaves are? So the leaves fall off when you cut?
    Sorry im trying to understand

    rdgx34 Active Member

    I mean when you cut the growing tips
    Al B. Fuct

    Al B. Fuct once had a dog named

    Sure, if that rez is 60 gallons.

    If you try to run 2 trays off 1x 30gal tank, I think you'll see the ppm jump up quite a lot every day. You'll be topping up with water frequently, if not daily. My 125L tanks are 1/3 empty when the trays are being flooded. That gives close to 2/3 of the tank as headroom for water consumption. Remember that the pump has to remain submerged, requiring a minimum level of about 1/4 the tank volume. If you use a single 125L tank for 2 trays, 2/3 of the tank will be up in the trays when flooding. You'd have a difference between 1/4 and 1/3 of the tank as headroom for water consumption. That would be sucked up in only a couple of days by 2 trays worth of vigorous plants.

    Can't see the difference myself, other than it'll be a lot harder to find 60gal (250L) tubs as easily as you can get 30 gal (125L) at the dollar shop.
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
    Al B. Fuct

    Al B. Fuct once had a dog named

    Ok, I've said that when you are putting a new clone in to be raised as a mother, you nip off the growing tip to force growth to divide. I've provided pictures. I don't know what else I can do to make you understand what to do.
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