Gavita double ended...

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Bulb life and close does not equal the sun.

I've read the plasma reviews and they seem to be supplemental

Not trying to attack any lighting but this is a open forum and it's my opinion
There are objective measures of these things. They're rated for either 50,000 hours or 30,000 hours. The UVB 41,02 bulb which is better for our purposes is rated to 30,000 hours (which I assume means you'll maintain 90%+ intensity for around half that time but I'm sure you could find out exactly what it means if you so desired, not many lights are rated to last that long though).

Gavita spectrum:



Sun spectrum:



The gavita is the closest I've seen to replication. Obviously it's not perfect, but it's still the closest I've seen. CMH's are pretty close, but not as close.

I just noticed this thread is in the LED forum. I'm not sure why.
 
Last edited:

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
so you are going gavita?
nah..............I just don't see it as a worthwhile/significant upgrade from mogul. High initial investment, $150+ re-lamping, extra btu load in a temperate environment.

TBH..........it's up to governor Wolf on how the shit is gonna roll.......... If he passes the mmj bill this year, I'll be one of the first out of the gate hopefully. NOT with my money though:p

They also put out 25% more light @ 1000w than a single ended bulb. Even more at 1150w. And bulbs last almost 2 years. This has been discussed very extensively on other sites. Studies of the scientific variety indicate they are the most efficient lights on the market in terms of performance. Take into account bulb longevity and cost compared to the only other lights that can compare (which are high end cobs) and it's a no brainer.
Ahhhhhh gavita #s.........................good marketing...............let's look at philips #s(also good marketing:p)

DE
http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/oem/hid-systems/high-pressure-sodium/horti/928196305116_EU/product

vs

Mogul

http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/oem/hid-systems/high-pressure-sodium/son-t/928487400091_EU/product
http://www.lighting.philips.com/pwc_li/us_en/connect/tools_literature/downloads/157263.pdf

quick price
philips mogul
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/4747/LU1000-368837.html
vs
philips DE
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ET8UGTE/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687462&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00HXOJT1C&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=04SYRPGEG7CEAY168YJ6

Don't see the big #s to jump ship, in bulk under $40 a bulb for 1000w mogul, can relamp more often and still save significantly more money on a large scale. small% lumen depreciation diff at 10,000hrs(mogul re-lamping makes it mute), 11 lm/w more for the DE initially(mogul re-lamping makes it mute). DE's 250C higher operating temp than mogul is a killer IMO on US commercial grow ops. YES ppf/w it is king, but the CURRENT $$$ cons hurt it imo.........philips/gavita have hyped the shit out of this for market adoption, even horti is buckling and bringing out a DE this year. Maybe it's the best thing since sliced bread, I just don't see it being optimal from a PA business stand point atm.

we are not gonna talk about what over-driving(1150w) does to the sodium arc and how the lumen maintenance #s will change, can't have your cake and eat it too..........philips won't show it.

If this years ul approved xhp/cxb/vero led panels would be "affordable"......we wouldn't be having this discussion


There are objective measures of these things. They're rated for either 50,000 hours or 30,000 hours. The UVB 41,02 bulb which is better for our purposes is rated to 30,000 hours (which I assume means you'll maintain 90%+ intensity for around half that time but I'm sure you could find out exactly what it means if you so desired, not many lights are rated to last that long though).

Gavita spectrum:



Sun spectrum:



The gavita is the closest I've seen to replication. Obviously it's not perfect, but it's still the closest I've seen. CMH's are pretty close, but not as close.

I just noticed this thread is in the LED forum. I'm not sure why.
underpowered for our c3 flowering annual.............sulfur plasma is the best of its tech.

http://www.plasma-i.com/ecoplasma.htm too much $$$$$ though
 
Last edited:

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
If this years ul approved xhp/cxb/vero led panels would be "affordable"......we wouldn't be having this discussion
Give me your take on what affordable is?

I've noticed that a majority of the costs associated with building COB panels is primarily targeted at the driver(s).

As a fellow horticulturist, I believe and know we have the ability to buy the best parts when it comes to COBs (Vero, Bridgelux - not sure what Osram offers but hear good things about em'), drivers (Mean Well), and heat sinks.

While what we build as DIY-related doesn't comply with UL standards, it does (for the most part) give us the ability to grow some amazing crops, at reasonable prices. Now if we instead went with cheapo COBs and drivers, the total cost to build our lights would more than likely drop but the reliability and performance would follow this affordable approach in direction (down).

So the main difference between a good DIY project and a bad DIY project is the parts utilized, which correlates with cost fluctuation. Same goes for commercial, UL qualified grow lights (LED/COB light fixtures).

It's just too bad, according to @hyroot, that UL standards demand an enclosure for lighting systems - meaning that everything, from COB to drivers, must be in a box with glass to allow light to shine down onto the canopy.

Who knows, maybe by implementing such a standard, a few, dull-minded lives will be saved..
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
An extra half to a full pound per light over mogul...in a facility with 300-1000 lights...DE ALL THE WAY

Longer lamp maintenance...
And for the love of god...1150 w is 1150 of heat!!!
If you run a 1000w mogul at 1000w and a DE at 1000w...the heat is the same! If you crank them both up to 1150...the heat is the same.
If you run one at 1000w and one at 1150...is that a fair comparison of heat???
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
I'm happy with my ~2.4uMol/s per dissipated watt DIY junk for now. Maybe one day I'll upgrade to 2.1uMol/s per watt.:eyesmoke:

IMAG0293.jpg
IMAG0298.jpg


I'm sure DE is great... it has a great startup cost and will produce amazing proven results!! but it flat out loses in a photon battle AND in radiant efficiency.
 
Last edited:

Sativied

Well-Known Member
I've been using Gavitas for a couple years. @Sativied touched on this, but they are commercial. Not some hobbiest junk. I would be leery of the market flooded de bulbs and ballasts.

If your doing a small personal grow, they probably aren't for you.

- Jiji
Yes, but even then only to an extend. Lowest wattage gavita is 600w, if you got a 4x4 closet you probably grow for yield, and when yield is a factor, the gavita is quickly earned back and in practice can even be cheaper per gram (less bulb changes, professional gear that lasts longer). For growers in NL usually within a single cycle (just need one ounce more, not your ounce, our 100gram "ons" sold at roughly $500)

That's the irony of LED fans bashing and flat out lying about Gavita gear. It achieves what they pretend to be after, higher efficiency and money savings. And not talking about wall plug or electrical or luminous efficiency, but the efficiency that matters, which is gpw or more specifically g per $ electricity.

And guess what's not only the best, but only the cheapest:

gavitacheap.gif
5 year is long time though...

upload_2015-3-4_20-31-52.png

See the umol/J (not what Supra parroted from the LED shill at icmag, when he compared to lighting materials that are currently being made in a factory...).

For large spaces with many lights the ePapillion may work better but for in a tent/closet:



And yeah yeah, you fanboys can build something more efficient with cobs that don't produce as much heat but at a quarter of the wattage need heat sinks larger than a gavita 1kwatter's ballast, and then still need fans on top of it :lol:

The irony is just hilarious and not worth more than mocking... I've seen most of you fail at having a factual discussion in probably not coincidentally another gavita DE thread nearly a year ago... Bunch of HPS hating shills that love to put up and attack straw mans.

As with most downsides of LED, fanboys go so far as to pretend they are benefits and then claim HPS is less because it doesn't have that same "feature" (read: down side).

HPS directs heat towards the canopy, unless you live in a hot dessert that's a plus, not a downside. And even then you can swap day and night. I've seen professional large side by side HPS vs LED tests in which they ended up hanging up a few HPS bulbs on the LED side to make it fair in terms of canopy temps. :rolleyes:

And again, you can't include and then subtract the light beyond the par range from the specs...
"The higher the PAR value per Watt, the more efficient the lamp. For this reason, Philips specifies the PAR value for all its ‘growth lamps’, expressed in micromol photons per second (µmol/s)."

Another classic, LED is more directional... no, HPS gives a better spread (unless you buy 10 light sources and run them at less intensity... lol), especially in spaces larger than a single hps bulb would cover.

The poser bullshit about BTUs... the whole heat argument is just desperate shill nonsense, with exceptions the larger growers for who that's actually relevant definitely aren't not going to tie dozens of cobs together either.

More LED-LoL: LED has longer lifetime than HPS... yeah, the chip vs the bulb... more specifically, the chip in a professional construction vs the bulb in a professional fixture.

A professional horticulture lighting setup is a much better investment.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
HPS directs heat towards the canopy, unless you live in a hot dessert that's a plus, not a downside. And even then you can swap day and night. I've seen professional large side by side HPS vs LED tests in which they ended up hanging up a few HPS bulbs on the LED side to make it fair in terms of canopy temps. :rolleyes:
49.1% efficiency means that 49.1% of the energy put in goes down. We just explained that a few pages ago, while we were discussing how much we LIKE hps.

That radiation heats the canopy just the same as HPS.
 
Last edited:

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Why would you think that more light means less heat at the canopy? It means MORE. Do you think the light gets sucked into a void and energy just disappears magically? Of course not!! The light/radiation itself heats up the room, starting with the top of the canopy!
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
According to actual scientific research at the University of Mississippi the highest net photosynthesis rate of Cannabis Sativa L. is at 30 degrees Celsius, that's 86f. 82-83f works better ime. At a few degrees lower (and roughly 1000umol ppf) that efficiency quickly drops (up to 20% lower at 25C / 77f).

It's just a typical downright desperate HPS shill argument that gavita works better in cold climates. We're talking about indoor growing, and indoor it's not 25-30C...

The penetration of a gavita, and HPS in general ensure not only the top leaves reach good temps and is one of the reasons - in reality - why people switching to gavita grow less popcorn - which makes the popcorn and heat comments so ironic. Well, not as much as the heath sinks lol.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
If you'd calm down and actually read the thread more clearly, you'd see that most of us actually recommend HPS in general for most operations. What I do in my home is a hobby. a 2.4uMol/s per watt hobby......

I'm busy trimming foot long sativa colas.... if you'll excuse me... (who says c99 doesn't smell... wow!!!)
 

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
One thing I know for sure ....
If I was living in Holland (or might be anywhere else with a cold climate during winter ),
I would consider twice and think thoroughly all the plus and minus ,growing with HID lights ...
Not alike this ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/11402633/Dutch-police-catch-cannabis-growers-after-spotting-snow-free-roof.html

http://www.hightimes.com/read/snow-less-rooftop-leads-dutch-police-pot-grow-op

http://newsfeed.gawker.com/a-roof-without-snow-means-reefer-will-grow-1685170905

One thing I know for sure ...
COBs will never melt the snow on my home's rooftop ..
Stealth enough ,for me ...

Gavita ?
Like saying "Give your grow away " ?
LOL !
Ah ,no thanks.
Straw man ,my @$$ ...

Cheers.
:peace:
 
Top