FrigiDare 2 Indica's Infrared Spectrum Trial

reggaerican said:

thats a good point.. i thought about that, but also i was thinking cause it is sealed so tightly and is such a small place.. do you even need a fan other than intake and exhust?
sure it helps with strengthening the branches but it cant really fall over in such a small space.. and it also helps with pest control but then again you are sealed so tightly that it prob wont even be a prob?? wheels are just turning as usuall and brain wants to feed.. so what you think?

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Does not strengthen branches, that is a myth

Daniel, if you want to see it simply place a video camera in there with a burning incense and watch what the smoke does

i agree totally. i knew a gentlemen whom stuck a webcam in so he could check in regularly without opening the box, and comfirm any major light leaks. thats also a great idea riddleme to check why temps in a cab grow are high or low.

i dont think daniels has a air flow problem to have those temps, in a confined space, with that wattage, in an outdoor space which is cool for fall but still has no human controlled environmentals for the ambient.

riddleme said:

Does not strengthen branches, that is a myth

Daniel, if you want to see it simply place a video camera in there with a burning incense and watch what the smoke does

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I've argued the myth many times too. I like how you explained it somewhere. Keeping the soil top getting air along with helping later with Bud Rot was my reason for wanting a small oscillating fan. I can peek in the upper intake and see leaf movement. I think I'm good on the airflow. If anything, I can see reducing the fan times to stay low enough. I might try that w/ my camera just for fun.
Daniels

Danielsgb said:

I've argued the myth many times too. I like how you explained it somewhere. Keeping the soil top getting air along with helping later with Bud Rot was my reason for wanting a small oscillating fan. I can peek in the upper intake and see leaf movement. I think I'm good on the airflow. If anything, I can see reducing the fan times to stay low enough. I might try that w/ my camera just for fun.
Daniels

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Walmart has small (6 inch) osc fans in the automotive section, they are 12 volt and work great (I have 2 of em)

I fed #3 now named Nikki II her Flairform nutes yesterday. Here's what she got.'

3 tsp Green Dream Bloom
1 1/2 tsp Gro Storm
1/2 tsp Bud Storm
1mL Pythoff

Had a pH of 6.5, but I don't have a nice meter. Made 1 Gal. with plenty of run-off. SiliKaMajic next. #4 will get a Pro-teKt soon.
Daniels

I just Found This.
Daniels

tahoe58 said:

I have been encouraged to start another thread with the purpose of looking beyond the “purpose” of the trichome and under what condition and how the trichome evolves during the maturation process.

The premise I would like to put forward is to look more in depth into the role the UV light plays. There is a significant body of evidence that has shown that the potency of your babies will be improved with UV light – a trade off with lumens, but an improvement of the concentration of THC – why? Because it is the UV light that breaks down the precursors in the trichomes to THC. This is a little out there so to speak because we have all be told that the HPS is the flowering light…when in fact….it produces NO favourable UV light. So while a MH bulb is lower on the lumens scale, it has an abundance of favourable UV light.

This is a post that TheBigBad made on 05-21-07
“ive read a bunch on how plants grown outside is stronger than the same strain grown indoors. and how UV rays are what cause this. UVB are mostly responsible as they are the stronger of the UVB rays. UVB is what you get sunburns/tans from. the plant makes resin to fight off the UV rays, so outside makes for stronger pot.
assumeing all that is right, if you added a UVB light source to a grow room where it would just come on for alil while each day of the flowering phase you might be able to get stronger buds indoors. and if that did work whos to say by makeing the light stay on alil longer each day than the day before the plant wouldnt just go crazy and turn into a huge pile of THC??? lol
anywhoo, what do ya’ll think? worth a shot or not?”

That thread stalled and was last posted on in August.

……possibly the most authoritative piece that I have found so far is Pate, D.W., 1994. Chemical ecology of Cannabis. Journal of the International Hemp Association 2: 29, 32-37. This paper is widely referenced in future documentation…so just as I do in my professional work….I like to stick with what the ganja research fraternity takes as somewhat of an authoritative piece.

As a little of an aside, this may be valuable in the discussion relating to the “purpose” of resin – in regards to this, it references anti-dessication (i.e., THC concentration higher in xeric conditions), antimicrobial, antifungal, antifeedant *i.e., chemical and physical deterrent) and UV-B pigmentation roles. But that’s another topic. I want to look at what factors might best guide us in further maximizing our resin production and thereby potentially, our potency.

In this regard, I take from this paper (and the unavoidable tangential research….), the following:

• cannabinoids are present in glands throughout the plant in two forms…stalked and not stalked;
• the density of glands increases as you move up the plant (uncertain whether or not this is a function of maturity or structural difference – more study needed)
• in one study, the THC generally increased as locations became less favorable for plant growth, suggesting increased plant stress enhanced delta-9-THC production
• cannabinoids also may function in the role of UVB protection (another biological stress-inducer), which may be functionally analogous to human skin pigmentation (again more study needed to understand and resolve current information).
• colour rendering Index (CRI) with a maximum value of 100 (i.e., that of outdoor daylight) – only comparable with lights on the same temperature (i.e., 2700K, or 6500K, etc.). For example it is un-instructive to compare identical wattage CRI (70 vs. 20) of MH (4500K) vs. HPS (2700K)
• recent developments in LPS (Low pressure sodium) might provide some better solutions
• Pate (1983) and Lydon et al (1987) both demonstrated that under conditions of high UV-B exposure, drug-type Cannabis produces significantly greater quantities of THC.

The following are a couple of excerpts from a post entitled UV and it’s effects (BC Growers Association)….from 1999….. http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/amphitheatre/5796/uv.htm

“Growers use two or more 20 minute UV light treatments during the day cycle.”

“Metal halide produce the best potent weed less lumens for the money but better smoke. After years of testing with some friends who did want to keep THEIR recipe (more hps) i foung there weed to be harsh, full of CBD, make me eat and sleep, only good to sell to someone else taht you dislike. The blue spectrum will give you a final product that have everything included :taste without curing, potency and yield, To be effective a ratio of 2 MH for 1 hps at the most.(hps) Hps alone can produce a cash crop but not a connaisseur crop.
Et Voila...”

Q1. if UV in ionisers is used for odour control, will high UV light conditions (high altitudes) also influence odour – which has been postulated to have important functionality in the life cycle of cannabis?

Q2. should/could we maybe consider the introduction of a “highly limited” level of exposure to UVB to enhance resin production while within the limited of phytological degradation?

Q3. do we need to take a closer look at the true comparison of the growth potential/potency of using HPS vs. MH vs. MV lights? Have we been incurring a limitation to potency by using HPS lighting for flowering?

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Yeah tahoes thread and experiments on UVB were great, he left I guess but was a great grower

This from Ed. Rosenthal too
Daniels
Light disagreement

By Ed Rosenthal - Friday, November 22 2002
Do metal halide lamps grow stonier buds?
I have to disagree with you about lights. I've been growing under metal halides (MH) lamps for more than 20 years. In CC issue #34 you stated that MH lamps are useful only when the amber light of a high-pressure sodium (HPS) lamp would cause a problem.
My associates and I would disagree. The consensus among us is that HPS lamps produce more weight, but the stoniest, longest-lasting high comes from metal halide lamps.
Ultra-violet (UV) light is the key. MH lamps produce more than HPS lamps and the more UV, the higher the potency climbs in normally high potency plants. I grow for buzz, not weight, or you could say for love, not money, so the MH lamps suit my purpose. I use a Sunmaster MH lamp. The plants produce a little more weight under them than the old 5500K (Color temperature) bulbs, but they've kept the UV light strong.
Anonymous Bud,
Clifton, Colorado
In CC#34, in the article Pot Potency it stated that UV rays and high light intensity caused cannabis plants to produce a greater amount of cannabinoids. Is this true? If so, would MH lamps be better to grow stronger pot than HPS lamps?
Skydog, Ontario
The article that you refer to, Pot Potency by DMT, discusses the environmental aspects of THC production. In the same issue, I recommended HPS rather than MH lamps.
One of the factors that DMT covered was ultraviolet light. There are three spectrums of UV light. UVA is the least harmful. This is the spectrum produced by black lights. UVC light is dangerous to all life. It is used in water purification systems to sterilize water.

The light spectrum of interest to us is UVB. It affects life in many ways. In humans it causes tanning, skin aging, eye damage and cancers. Other animals are affected by it in all sorts of ways.
The Earth's atmosphere filters UVB light. There is more UVB light at high altitudes than at sea level. Also, sunlight at the equator takes the shortest route through the atmosphere. As the latitude increases, sunlight reaches Earth after going through more atmosphere because of its slanted path. Therefore UVB at the equator is much more intense than in temperate zones. That's one reason people tan or burn so fast in the tropics, and why skin cancer rates are higher in southern than northern states.
A researcher conducted a controlled experiment in a greenhouse. He lit a group of high potency plants similarly except with the addition of UVB light to some groups. He found that the percentage of THC increased in a direct ratio with the increase in UVB light. This research confirms the adage that high altitude plants are more potent than those grown at low altitudes.
If you look at old-world land races of cannabis, plants that have become adapted to the climate and latitude, the ratio of THC to CBD starts at 100 : 1 at the equator. At the 30th parallel (The Hindu-Kush Valley) the plants have a ratio of 50 : 50. At the 45th parallel the ratio is near 1 : 100. This corresponds roughly with the amount of UVB light received at these latitudes. There is much more UVB at the equator than the 45th parallel.
How can you get more UVB light to your plants? Certainly it's true that MH lamps emit more UVB light than HPS lamps. Still the amount that MH lamps emit is small. In fact, many manufacturers use UVB shielding glass to filter out most of the UVB that's produced. The UVB light the plant receives from an MH lamp does increase the plant's potency slightly at the cost of yield, but there are better ways to introduce UVB light into the grow room. They include reptile lights, which emit about 10% UVB, and tanning lamps.
The problem with using these lamps is that they are associated with increased number of cancers and many other problems. They should not be on when you are in the grow room. Not much research has been conducted on using them to produce higher THC values. I will do a full report in a future issue.

This one looks good too.
Daniels
tom flowers has a bit to say re uv from his flower forcing book:
Marijuana is thought to be indigenous to foothill areas with elevations of
1500-2500 feet [where there's high uv levels]. Many experienced growers will
tell you pot grown at these elevations will be the most potent - up to 20%
more potent than the same variety grown at sea level.
Growers use two or more 20 minute UV light treatments during the day cycle.
Most [tanning] UV lights have timing units. [small face-tanning lights for
400w, full body tanning systems for 1000w areas. used tanning lights
supposedly available cheap]
If you have to be in the growing area wear sunglasses that filter out UV light
and a hat. The small amount of UV-b radiation these lights produce can do
heady things to your marijuana. Don't get carried away though, the object is
not to get the plants to glow in the dark.

riddleme said:

Yeah tahoes thread and experiments on UVB were great, he left I guess but was a great grower

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I'm still just getting into his. I keep finding more. This UV-B might be something to get into. I'm at 12 1/2 hrs. of Daylight, and temps are holding good. 1 hr. UV w/ half of it alone.

Danielsgb said:

I'm still just getting into his. I keep finding more. This UV-B might be something to get into. I'm at 12 1/2 hrs. of Daylight, and temps are holding good. 1 hr. UV w/ half of it alone.

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Why I went CMH my friend, good to see ya researchin though, I have read everything you have found so far

riddleme said:

Why I went CMH my friend, good to see ya researchin though, I have read everything you have found so far

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I'll be amazed if I find something You Haven't read. I mentioned in the beginning re-creating 'sunrise' & 'sunset', and I follow your view of copying Mother Nature. The more I read of UV-B I'm wondering if I'm elevating this FrigiDare a solid 1K ft or 2K ft. up between the CMH and Heat Lamp.
I found something from 12 years ago about UV and Dutch seed banks from an Uncle Ben with seed quality degrading from a lack of UV. That read like UB. I'm still in the middle of that one.
Daniels

you can also use UVB 15 reptile bulbs. they emit 15% of there energy in UVB radiation. or the have 10 and 5. i used a UVB 5 bulb, i already had for my python, and i could tell a difference, after a few days of treatments, about 48 hours after the treatments, i could see much more trichomes popped up, than when i would skip a week from treatments. im going to try a few UVB 15 next run. they are about 30 bucks each for a big CFL looking bulb. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3577443

Most tanning bulbs emit between 5%- 6.5%. tanning bulbs also will run hotter than the reptile bulb.

also some good info on UV bulbs http://www.uvguide.co.uk/fluorescenttuberesults.htm

if you go for a UVB light get one that has individual testing in the review, while researching UVB I found that a few years ago one of the mass market reptile compnaies() don't remember which one,recognized the name though,think Ive seen their stuff in walmart,places like that) produced a uvb light with a plastic cover that stopped all uvb light! seems the manufacturer switched the type pf plastic used in the cover at the last minute.... seriously

Here's the one I use 100W

If going with UVB lizard lights you want to stick with the #5's anything higher can seriously harm the plants, you want them more than 30 inches away and turn them on for no more than 2 30 minute cycles per day

riddleme said:

If going with UVB lizard lights you want to stick with the #5's anything higher can seriously harm the plants, you want them more than 30 inches away and turn them on for no more than 2 30 minute cycles per day

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#5's? I looked on the box it came in and I don't see any #'s. I have about 24" and I've been looking for any signs of heat or light stress. None yet. I could get the lower Watt bulb if you think it would be better. Pre-flowers all over so far.
Daniels

Danielsgb said:

#5's? I looked on the box it came in and I don't see any #'s. I have about 24" and I've been looking for any signs of heat or light stress. None yet. I could get the lower Watt bulb if you think it would be better. Pre-flowers all over so far.
Daniels

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no yours is a heat lamp not a UVB lamp they are different

ya, they will say like UVB 5.0 or 8.0 or 10.0. that stands for the percentage of UVB emitted. i used a 5.0 last run. and it worked really well. id give each plant about 5 minutes each per treatment.

They're doing good. Bit of a growth spurt, more so on the Ff, but I always get some from up-canning. Got the Ballasts Labeled too and some wooden dowels for later. Not the final touch I'm planning yet Gumball.
Daniels