friend hardcore defoliated couple plants... need some input

I wanna say first that I'm not in favor of defoliating just in case I was unclear earlier.

I'm gonna guess they aren't done growing, but by cutting as much off as he did at once it may have stunned the growth for a few days. Obviously it probably also decreased the overall potential of the plants.

Your see to be done before any buds though an then you let them grow througout flower without touching them?

Ill be putting pictures up every day or every other day. Then at end of post an cutdown time i will be sure to go back and put one picture per day in order to see difference.

ricky6991 said:

Your see to be done before any buds though an then you let them grow througout flower without touching them?

Ill be putting pictures up every day or every other day. Then at end of post an cutdown time i will be sure to go back and put one picture per day in order to see difference.

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i defoliated all thru veg... then on day 21 of flower and let them grow after that.....

And your yeilds were always bigger before defoliating and after you stopped doing so?

ricky6991 said:

And your yeilds were always bigger before defoliating and after you stopped doing so?

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no actually the yield was larger by a half an O .. not enough to justify the work. imo

keebo3000 said:

no actually the yield was larger by a half an O .. not enough to justify the work. imo

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[video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/6Zy297Xgr8Q[/video]

@ricky6991 --First let me say you got one clean & professional looking room

..read most of the thread, and i'm assuming you are around week5 of flower? And you stated you see some nute burn on the remaining small leaves? Well like UB advised, just lower the nutrient ppms Since the large fan leaves were removed (the plant's processing sites / factories), your roots are just sucking up "nutes" sending it upwards towards any remaining leaf site on the plant (so those remaining leaf(s) are over burdened with concentrated levels) --hence the nute burns..

About the defoliation thing your friend applied on those plants, it's never been proven to be a working method, the science behind its application doesn't make sense since you need leaves to process the "energy" needed for the plant to flourish..

The growers who insist that it works may have something that probably wasn't thoroughly examined; like maybe it was the strain(phenotype) used during those grows, which actually thrives under those conditions? Some environmental unknowns that led to certain outcomes? Too many blanks, too many what ifs.. Until someone can actually put some real science behind "defoliation" for cannabis, then for now its just another pseudo method which actually does more harm than good~

This is the advanced cultivation section, ---plucking fan leaves, saying "shits gonna yield more" because buds (floral bouquets) are exposed to the light ---just don't make botanical sense

So ricky6991, just finish out your current run, from the the pictures you posted, they look like they will yield okay (probably better) if you had just left them alone... Honestly, nature knows best, so why mess with that system that took millions of years to evolve

.2s

cannawizard said:

@ricky6991 --First let me say you got one clean & professional looking room

..read most of the thread, and i'm assuming you are around week5 of flower? And you stated you see some nute burn on the remaining small leaves? Well like UB advised, just lower the nutrient ppms Since the large fan leaves were removed (the plant's processing sites / factories), your roots are just sucking up "nutes" sending it upwards towards any remaining leaf site on the plant (so those remaining leaf(s) are over burdened with concentrated levels) --hence the nute burns..

About the defoliation thing your friend applied on those plants, it's never been proven to be a working method, the science behind its application doesn't make sense since you need leaves to process the "energy" needed for the plant to flourish..

The growers who insist that it works may have something that probably wasn't thoroughly examined; like maybe it was the strain(phenotype) used during those grows, which actually thrives under those conditions? Some environmental unknowns that led to certain outcomes? Too many blanks, too many what ifs.. Until someone can actually put some real science behind "defoliation" for cannabis, then for now its just another pseudo method which actually does more harm than good~

This is the advanced cultivation section, ---plucking fan leaves, saying "shits gonna yield more" because buds (floral bouquets) are exposed to the light ---just don't make botanical sense

So ricky6991, just finish out your current run, from the the pictures you posted, they look like they will yield okay (probably better) if you had just left them alone... Honestly, nature knows best, so why mess with that system that took millions of years to evolve

.2s

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What he said, emphasis mine. How quickly folks jump to some conclusion when in fact the results was induced by some other factor (s).

UB

Monday is start of week 5. As for lowering nute ppm, i cant do that cause my other plants eat crazy amount and im not sacrificing the other 10. If that means these 2 stay where they are then it is what it is...

My buddy who did the 'defoliating' i talked to an told him i wasnt comftable doing it anymore and as to why and he completely understood an actually said he would take the loss himself for those 2. Not that i would have him do that cause one day ill mess up im sure. Accidents happen. Think he read up on it some more after that day an now knows... ill have a pic up today

The correct canopy management will benefit the overall crop, when plants are grown tightly in a given space
i would consider canopy management to be removal , or bending, of any growth including leaves
a crop consists of the number of plants grown, or another way to look at is, the total amount of branches produced by all plants in the crop in the grow space
each branch will compete for light and has the potential to become a cola
nature does not know best, cultivation is the art of helping plants to know what is best
indoor plants grown under a central light do not grow in the shape nature intended, they can grow top heavy and shade themselves , this is not desirable
training/ canopy management can help to organize the plants into the best shape to produce the maximum amount of cola

it is just as extreme to pick all the leaves off your plant as it is to think that picking off any leaves at all will always harm the crop
finding the correct balance for your grow is something that you will find with time and experience the plants will show you what they like and what
they do not like
it is unfortunate that some growers have a bad experience with their plants and are too frighted to get back on the horse so to speak and experiment more

there would be nothing worse for this industry collectively than all growers growing their plants using the exact same methods
this would cause a stagnation of ideas and new discoveries with completely average uncle ben style plants for everyone
it is far better to experiment make some mistakes along the way and learn from those mistakes

better luck next time

peace

@skunkdoc--- I acknowledge what you said, true.. there is a distinguishable line between (unplanned extreme defoliation & systematic canopy management) , I'm just here to point out that; at least, know what you are doing before hand.. so you get the desired results you wanted~

--I won't argue the sentiment I mentioned about "Nature knowing best" --each person is entitled their own opinion
But I think cultivation is more in line of procuring results from applying the correct sciences, to achieve results that supersede current norms~
"Helping plants know what is best"... is like stating that nature's design wasn't adequate enough after so many years of evolution.. hhmm, just seems like human ego right there..

I was thinking that your statements were based purely on cannabis progression, but then you go flaming UB... Oh well~

cannawizard said:

@skunkdoc--- I acknowledge what you said, true.. there is a distinguishable line between (unplanned extreme defoliation & systematic canopy management) , I'm just here to point out that; at least, know what you are doing before hand.. so you get the desired results you wanted~

--I won't argue the sentiment I mentioned about "Nature knowing best" --each person is entitled their own opinion
But I think cultivation is more in line of procuring results from applying the correct sciences, to achieve results that supersede current norms~
"Helping plants know what is best"... is like stating that nature's design wasn't adequate enough after so many years of evolution.. hhmm, just seems like human ego right there..

I was thinking that your statements were based purely on cannabis progression, but then you go flaming UB... Oh well~

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If it is your belief that all cannabis plants grow perfectly without any kind of intervention from the grower, then perhaps you should live in Jamaica and just throw seeds in the ground
don't worry about any kind of fertilizer any kind of training, or any phenotype selection pray to jah Rastafari to grow them for you .. good luck

It is my opinion that the pictures of the plants uncle Ben has posted are average. This is not flaming, it is me stating my opinion
uncle Ben is obsessed with this topic a simple search will testify to that fact, rather than offering constructive criticism, uncle Ben uses insults and copies nonsense from grow books and re-posts it, something similar to what Brick Top would do

You are free to agree or disagree with my opinions but labeling my comments as flaming would indicate to me that you are defending your friend uncle Ben, this is an admirable action but unnecessary since he was not under attack he knows very well how obsessed he is with this topic, and i am sure he can speak for himself

It is a pity, i would hope that your loyalties to your friend can be put aside so that you have an open mind to the opinions of everyone and not just a select few
nothing worse than a close minded cheerleader < That is just me thinking out-loud, i would not want to be accused of flaming anyone, especially elite members of the RIU grow hierarchy LOL

happy seed chucking

peace

skunkd0c said:

there would be nothing worse for this industry collectively than all growers growing their plants using the exact same methods

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That's absurd. It's not about methods pinhead, it's about science. How you deliver salts and water is immaterial as long as it gets done and done right - aquaponics, DWC, soil-less, organics, ebb-flo....doesn't really matter. You tell a group of my professional growers that you pluck leaves claiming it makes them yield more and you'll get laughed out of the room.

this would cause a stagnation of ideas and new discoveries

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"NEW" discoveries? Oh bullshit. Don't play that juvenile elitism game with me. With every new crop of noobs comes the same old, re-hashed, Joe Cool drills thinking they've re-discovered the wheel when in reality I and other seasoned growers end up unfucking the mess you make because of your "new discoveries".

with completely average uncle ben style plants for everyone

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That's an insult and nothing more than a cheap politically skewed shot on your part and one of the reasons why I'm giving you a good spanking. Folks know a well grown plant when they see one. Let's see yours.

it is far better to experiment make some mistakes along the way and learn from those mistakes

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Yep, and like I've said a million times, guys like you have to learn the hard way.

So, go pluck yourself......

Another nonsense thread these are not fruit tree's or even fruit these are flowers every pod is like a flower leaf that does get energy from the light directly even thru the thc trichs they act as a magnifying glass a lot goes on in the bud.

There are lots of high demand strains that have very little leaf yet grow big fat bud naturaly with no leaf.

Bud doesn't develop well or at all in low light situations I have posted many pics showing that.

I have big three foot bushes left after harvesting at least two pounds from two plants it's still drying.

I'm going to reflower with many two week old looking tops I cut the couple of oz's of good popcorn after a few days of light to finish the bud, now I should go thru another cycle with no veg time and still get a huge harvest.

Rick your plants will be fine you should get more out of the two and not lose anything, stripping everything off a big plant at once will shock them it should be done over a couple of days still better than topping my clones are way behind the defoliated and natural ones.

You have noticed lower bud Is more developed that will continue they will grow more leaves anyway they just got some shock from doing to much at once.

I think you will be pleasently surprised in the end no need to worry.

I defoliated many times in veg heavily did a half defoliation at 21 days and again a couple of weeks before chop.

I'd post pics but they are a pain from my phone they are in outdoor came indoor in my sig.

I'm with skunkd0c on this one. if we all followed uncleben's methods we would all have very average plants. experiment for yourself. I have, and I like the results I get which are achieved with methods contrary to uncleben's. simple as that

dopeboi69 said:

I'm with skunkd0c on this one. if we all followed uncleben's methods we would all have very average plants. experiment for yourself. I have, and I like the results I get which are achieved with methods contrary to uncleben's. simple as that

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I know right. Who cares about years botany when we got stoners with science exploration level: toddler? I mean botany standards are really holding us back.

Would we have Rollitup members advancing techniques like using Oxyclean to enhance their cannabis if they had looked into the science and botany behind it?
HELL NO!

Would we have Rollitup memebers advancing techniques like using Centrum Silver Vitamins if they had bothered with science or botany?
HELL NO!

How about mixing Zoloft in their own piss??? I know you know the answer, would we have these awesome discoveries if they had bothered with the science???
HELL NO!!

So come on, who need science?? Not us, we gotz results and a brain.

So I am going to try and sprinkle some mercury on my leaves and show some results!!! Fuck science, that's fer nerds! Whos with me????

I agree that UB is definitely obsessed with defoliation. I just don't understand why. I'm not obsessed with "his" four cola topping method.

Uncle Ben said:

That's absurd. It's not about methods pinhead, it's about science. How you deliver salts and water is immaterial as long as it gets done and done right - aquaponics, DWC, soil-less, organics, ebb-flo....doesn't really matter. You tell a group of my professional growers that you pluck leaves claiming it makes them yield more and you'll get laughed out of the room.



"NEW" discoveries? Oh bullshit. Don't play that juvenile elitism game with me. With every new crop of noobs comes the same old, re-hashed, Joe Cool drills thinking they've re-discovered the wheel when in reality I and other seasoned growers end up unfucking the mess you make because of your "new discoveries".



That's an insult and nothing more than a cheap politically skewed shot on your part and one of the reasons why I'm giving you a good spanking. Folks know a well grown plant when they see one. Let's see yours.



Yep, and like I've said a million times, guys like you have to learn the hard way.

So, go pluck yourself......

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as i have said before your plants are average at best, please do not try to give me advice
it is embarrassing that you persist with your pretend copy and paste knowledge
when you have something to show that is a bit more impressive get back @ me

top tip > you should just post links to where you get your opinions from then i can see them first hand from whatever book or website you quote from
would save you some time

peace

yeah leaves fucking rawk
leaves them alone right

akula said:

I know right. Who cares about years botany when we got stoners with science exploration level: toddler? I mean botany standards are really holding us back.

Would we have Rollitup members advancing techniques like using Oxyclean to enhance their cannabis if they had looked into the science and botany behind it?
HELL NO!

Would we have Rollitup memebers advancing techniques like using Centrum Silver Vitamins if they had bothered with science or botany?
HELL NO!

How about mixing Zoloft in their own piss??? I know you know the answer, would we have these awesome discoveries if they had bothered with the science???
HELL NO!!

So come on, who need science?? Not us, we gotz results and a brain.

So I am going to try and sprinkle some mercury on my leaves and show some results!!! Fuck science, that's fer nerds! Whos with me????

Click to expand...

i hope all the growers hiding behind internet science degrees , are growing using LEDS in Aeroponics
some pics would be nice
it just would seem hypocritical if you were using HID'S and soil and claiming to be an elite scientist just my opinion

unless its a scientist that got hit on the head in the 1970's and never recovered ?

peace