Eyes In The Sky

Silencer said:

Thanks man. I kinda have noobish question too, but... how much bud do you think I could get outta 6 plants about 5ft. tall?

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I use this formula to find out my poundage of killer dank smoke.

A POUNDDANKAGE table



The PoundDankage Table (measuring 8 metres by 4m) with 4 'pockets' (measuring 0.5m and placed at diagonal slants in all 4 corners) contains 10 balls (each with a diameter of 0.25m) placed at the following coords:
2m,1m...(white ball)
...and red balls...
1m,5m... 2m,5m... 3m,5m
1m,6m... 2m,6m... 3m,6m
1m,7m... 2m,7m... 3m,7m

The white ball is then shot at a particular angle from 0 to 360 degrees (0 being north, and going clockwise).
Just to make it clear, a ball is 'potted' if at least half of the ball is in area of the 'pocket'

Assuming the balls travel indefinitely (i.e. no loss of energy via friction, air resistance or collisions), answer the following:

a: What exact angle/s should you choose to ensure that all the balls are potted the quickest?
b: What is the minimum amount of contacts the balls can make with each other before they are all knocked in?
c: Same as b, except that each ball - just before it is knocked in - must not have hit the white ball on its previous contact (must be a red instead of course).
d: What proportion of angles will leave the white ball the last on the table to be potted?

When you find the angle of the from the proportions you will have your POUNDDANKAGE!!

I have used this many time with great success.

Good luck

rambler420 said:

How much heat would be evident, though? Are we talking the big HPS lights or CFLs? How many lights would it take to be a big white blur on their radar? Hell, my cable box puts off more heat that one of my lights.

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Anyone? HPS? CFL? Any?

CFL's... Unless you are running hundreds or thousands of them... No problem at all.

HPS... There's a chance on those depending on the wattage and venting.

I watched the video that mattman posted and it's very informative. Looks like what caught the cops eye was that they had one vent on the roof of the house that was super hot while the rest of them were cold. The IR images were taken at 9:36pm on the night of May 1st, 2008 in Michigan. The low temperature that night was 36°. So, I can only assume that at that time of year, most houses are conserving heat inside and not venting it. It was a vent above a garage which, I guess, is why they didn't confuse it with the venting system from a hot water heater, wood-burning stove or fireplace.

I found some more information on the bust that's was caused by that video...

A Livingston County resident busted with more than 30 pounds of marijuana, thousands of dollars in cash and guns led a double life according to authorities. Dawn Hamell has worked as a civilian records clerk for the Ann Arbor Police Department since 1991. However on May 2nd, Hamburg Township Police, the Oakland County Sheriff’s Department and an undercover narcotics task force raided her Hamburg home. They discovered 30 pounds of packaged marijuana, 44 marijuana plants, drug paraphernalia, 400 pounds of potting soil, six marijuana grow lights, five handguns and a rifle. Police also seized $28,179 in cash at a Brighton bank and froze another $28,414 in a savings account. Authorities say an informant tipped them off to the grow operation which resulted in a one month investigation. Hamell has since been placed on leave without pay from the Ann Arbor Police Department.



So, there were at least six light being vented through that roof vent and judging by all of the other stuff that was listed... I'm sure they were at least 600w each. This was a commercial set up... Not one for personal use.

Here's another story about that bust where they were saying that the 30 pounds was for personal consumption and that she gave some out for medical purposes.

Police records clerk sentenced for growing pot in Putnam Township home | The Detroit News | detnews.com

Either way, it was large and was vented through the roof which is what the Pork-Choppers can see the best.

I did notice in that video that they couldn't see the ground very well where there were bushes. But, they have hand-held versions of those cameras that can be used from the ground.

I'm small enough that I don't have to vent, I just have to worry about hot spots on the walls which is why my stuff is on the very interior of my house and not in the attic.

Thanks for the response. I watched that video and it scares the crap out of me. We have choppers all the time. One or two have gone directly over my house, flying low. Most are military green, but one was black and flew over with the door open, perfectly centered over my house. Add that to an unmarked car driving down my street a few times the other day and you have one paranoid me.

They're also doing a large highway project near me and it could have been doing arial shots of the project.

On the flip side, I'm convinced my neighbor is growing, and possibly dealing, too. They had a window-unit AC in a single window last summer and the window's blocked out. All the houses in our neighborhood are new enough to have central air. I never see the curtains moved in that room, and never see a light on in the window. It's always dark. It's like there's plywood in the window or something. They always have people over, too. Maybe the coppers are looking at them instead.

/hopeful

If they turn out to be dealers, I'm gonna be pissed. All the time I spend out of green and hunting down dealers a half hour away and the people across the street from me are probably dealing. Ironic.

XReddiWipX said:

I'm small enough that I don't have to vent, I just have to worry about hot spots on the walls which is why my stuff is on the very interior of my house and not in the attic.

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Mines in an interior closet, no vents, on the ground (only) floor. I have an attic w/ an attic fan between the room and the roof. Lots of space between the closet and the roof. The closet stays about 85 degrees and the rest of the house stays about 73 degrees.

rambler420 said:

If they turn out to be dealers, I'm gonna be pissed. All the time I spend out of green and hunting down dealers a half hour away and the people across the street from me are probably dealing. Ironic.

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That would be my luck too. LoL

rambler420 said:

Mines in an interior closet, no vents, on the ground (only) floor. I have an attic w/ an attic fan between the room and the roof. Lots of space between the closet and the roof. The closet stays about 85 degrees and the rest of the house stays about 73 degrees.

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Yeah, I wouldn't worry about that. You're well insulated all the way around. They can't see (and I use the word see loosely) any deeper in to your place via thermal imaging than what's happening in the room they're pointing at. Unless you're venting to the exterior of the house.

Did you see in the video how when a tree or shrub blocked the view all definition was gone though. HeHe... Trees and shrubs helping us hide our plants.

The technology they are using is pretty sophisticated. But, I'll bet it's not as sophisticated as they would like for us to think it is. I'm trying to find out as much as I can about it in the hopes that I will be able to shield my self from it better than just picking in interior room to grow in.

Are you a CFL or an HPS kind of girl?

CFLs. This if my first attempt indoors so I'm going the easy way until I know what I'm doing. HPS lights scare me with the whole fire hazard thing. I'm not that advanced yet, nor can I afford them, either.

Oooooh, just thought of something. I have a huge, HUGE tree right outside "the room" it's in. That's gotta be a bonus. Granted I don't have any leaves on it right now 'cause they're all over my yard, but the branches and stuff have to help.

I tried to search for more videos of FLIR in action online and I couldn't find anything.

Lol, David Thompson? Is that you? David Thompson?

YouTube - Crazy Guy at Public Meeting

Don't get hung up on heat. While that is an indication of a LARGE grow op, it is the specific wavelength of weed which they can detect as well. If law enforcement targets ur house with the right equipment they can see just about everything. Of course you as a citizen can never know when or if they are targeting you. Another means of deterrent that is cost effective. I'm just playing devils advocate here, don't start throwing tomatoes at me!

Another quick sets of points to consider..... let's say you line ur attic with mylar or lead or something else very effective at keeping ur grow hidden. Well, that may be a tip off in itself. If the FLIR Heli flies over and sees a dead spot in ur house, guess what conclusion will be reached? Anybody?.....

Also be aware, the latest generation of night vision will now allow the feds to take high resolution facial shots in complete darkness. Identifiable images at telephoto distances. This is a first and not good news at all. Just be aware.....


out.

It's in the cops best interest to have everyone believing (or over believing) in the capabilities of FLIR, or other IR technology. How many folks have just not bothered to grow because they feared the almighty FLIR copter? I'd think that everyone who is growing would do the research on, and get a good understanding on what the cops can and cannot do or see. Anything less is folly. Forewarned is forearmed.

Like Bradlyallen says, thats a troop/cargo chopper, most probably military. The cops use smaller more maneuverable helicopters, like the Bell Ranger, the DEA uses Apaches for the most part.

How far from the airport or downtown are you? In every major city there is a shitload more helicopter traffic than you'd realize. Corporate transportation, safer money transportation, the list goes on.....

I understand completely the worry that can set in, tho. I was convinced that every cop in 3 states knew what was up and they were waiting for just before harvest to fuck me. Paranoia is insidious. It's a good thing, but don't let it gain control.

Hey CrackerJack, can you cite a source for that info? I aint arguing, 'cuz I know what they can or cannot do (as of the '80s, they could read a wrist watch from 50,000') If they can get facial features, they aint using FLIR. And there are alot more kinds of vision enhancing technology than IR.

thelastpirate said:

How far from the airport or downtown are you? In every major city there is a shitload more helicopter traffic than you'd realize. Corporate transportation, safer money transportation, the list goes on.....

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I'm about a 45 minute drive from any major airport. We do have a small corporate airport without about 7 miles away, though, where small planes come and go.

I know it's just paranoia, but cultivation of any amount is a felony in my state with a min 5 yr term. Paranoia is my friend right now

I don't mean to confuse anybody. When I say FLIR, I am talking about current tech.

When talking about high res photography, it is still emergent tech. This has just been developed and the web has very little info on it. I read a blurb about a company whose name escapes me which just developed this tech. The DEA and Feds are very interested in it. It uses NEAR INFRA RED tech. and can take a high resolution facial shot in complete darkness from a telephoto lens. One can only wonder what they will do with it. The small article appeared in the Wall Street Journal but the focus was on the companies profitability not the technology per se. I will see if I can slog through their archives and find it....

Good luck,


out.

mattman said:

Okay, an FLIR device detects differences in the surface temperature of targeted objects. The FLIR device highlights man-made heat as a white color and cooler temperatures in shades of gray. The device can detect a human form through a window when the person is leaning against a relatively thin barrier such as a curtain or a plywood door. The device is particularly useful not for detecting general heat loss, but for identifying distinguishable heat signatures inside a closed structure. This makes the device an effective search tool for police investigating marijuana growth operations, as it can detect the unique heat patterns emitted by these operations.

Now check Kyllo vs United States, this is the supreme court ruling

KYLLO V. UNITED STATES

Here is some shots of IR in action

Stock Video Footage: infrared - War Helicopter lift off

Police raid home of Blunkett Bobby after infrared helicopter mistook bad insulation for cannabis factory | Mail Online

Police Infrared Video suvellience: Cannabis Bust - Cannabis Culture Forums

With all of this information it is clear that FLIR searches are unconstitutional and can not be used against you in court. The only problem with this is that cops still do FLIR around cities and if they do happen to "spot" your home they can do what they hell they want, your still getting busted with your home and your own name and it usually gets into the media. Whether you win or lose in court your life is pretty much at a standstill after this. It seems that large scale operations ( imo 20+ plants 1k+ lights ), should take the proper precautions.

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Great find on the Kyllo descision. + rep for that. I am trying to find out if it's been applied as a test in any other cases, or have other courts ruled different on the same precedent.
More people should at least know the law as it applies to thier activities.

Can planes carry FLIR equipment? I'm not talking military jets or anything, but your average 2-4 seat airplane.

CrackerJax said:

I don't mean to confuse anybody. When I say FLIR, I am talking about current tech.

When talking about high res photography, it is still emergent tech. This has just been developed and the web has very little info on it. I read a blurb about a company whose name escapes me which just developed this tech. The DEA and Feds are very interested in it. It uses NEAR INFRA RED tech. and can take a high resolution facial shot in complete darkness from a telephoto lens. One can only wonder what they will do with it. The small article appeared in the Wall Street Journal but the focus was on the companies profitability not the technology per se. I will see if I can slog through their archives and find it....

Good luck,


out.

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Rambler420, Yes. Anything a person can get into can also carry FLIR. FLIR devices are actually quite small, and hand held devices, like everything else, are becoming less expensive.
But as of today, they WILL need a warrant to use any information or evidence they get thru the use of FLIR. If they know enough about you to get a warrant, you're pretty well fucked anyway.

CJ, FLIR utilizes the far end of the IR spectrum. Yes, it can take a hi res facial shot in complete darkness, but not thru walls. FLIR is the least of our worries. Hell, the cops know that there is so much misinformation about FLIR floating around that the very possibility of FLIR detection is a deterrent in itself.
What I am REALLY worried about is what technologies they have developed that DO have the ability to "see through" walls. FLIR has it's uses, but there are far better vision enhancing technologies out there. Light doesn't travel thru walls very well, however radio waves will. Anyone ever heard of the Hubble telescope or radio telemetry? That jewel has the capability of being aimed on us. They "claim" that they can't see thru walls, but I am here to tell you, that radio waves will pass unhindered thru walls, and you can "focus" radio waves, much like an ultra-sound. If that fucker can photograph another solar system in high res, do we REALLY believe they can't see us?
Your Hard Drive emits "RF" that can be picked up and read via satellite, or a hand held microwave device. There are SO many ways they can spy on us.
The technology is there for them to observe us completely, nowhere to hide. But thankfully, they have promised not to use that technology on us. WHEW!!
But the reality is that you're not gonna get busted by FLIR, or any other technology. It's still too expensive, and is inconclusive in court. You gotta pop up on their radar for them to start looking at you. That is almost invariably caused by you pissing someone off (Like your girlfriend) and getting snitched out, or absolute blind stupid luck that they stumbled on to your grow. The electric company ain't gonna turn you in for spending money with them (unless you're stupid enough to try and steal power)
If they DO get a warrant to use FLIR, or they DO get your power usage, someone has already snitched you out, and they are just getting more evidence.

Just keep quiet, stay low, and stay off the radar and you'll be fine!!!

I was thinking more along the lines of plane maneuverability over a chopper. If I see a chopper doing circles over my house, I'll know I'm fucked. I see a lot of planes, but they just go in a straight line from one side of the horizon to the other. I wouldn't think they have the maneuverability choppers do.

I'm just overly paranoid. I know. I'm not worried about being snitched out for an indoor grow. I'm more worried about the 5-6 foot outdoor plants I had in the summer (now harvested and gone). They were pretty well hidden, but if someone ratted me out to the popo, they might be watching me anyway.

That....and I've had a few unmarked cop cars, and a few marked cop cars drive down my street just this week. I've only seen one actually even glance in my house's direction when they drove by, but it was enough to get the heart racing. I keep telling myself they could be looking at any of the other 25-30 houses on my street, patrolling or serving someone with papers or something, but still.....it's enough to freak you out. I lead a pretty straight and narrow life with no other reason for the coppers to pay attention to me....except this.

i'm ex military and that appears to be a marine corps chopper like the post stated prolly either a sea king or a modified blackhack heli either way that is not going to be used that chopper is to big,loud, and has a huge rotor wash so flying that heli low into civillian areas is not recommended

Then those effers need to stop flying over my 'hood. They fly by about once a week. They are uber loud and make my house shake and my cats run under the bed. A few weeks ago a 'convoy' of them went by. They were low, too. Probably about 5 of 'em. They weren't so low I could read the numbers on the side, but low enough that me, and everyone in my town, noticed 'em.

You aint gonna find FLIR in a fixed wing plane.