Extreme Flowering Under Pair of Timber 48SAMS

Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
Day 30 of ?84?: Blew thru that 50 pounder of CO2 (finished a partial one earlier), the cost of maintaining fresh air flow (2 vents open) in my high pm risk ambient growroom conditions.

Came in for lunch yesterday and co2 ppm was at ~350, temp down ~6F from 81-83, exhaust fan on constant suckmode trying to get rh down below 62.6% trigger setpoint. This w radiator heater at 81F outside one vent, large dehumidifier set at max dehumid’n outside other open one.

Pulled a 5 pounder off one of my corny kegs and was back in business, could have been out of co2 for 5-6 hrs.

Not having used co2 for a grow before, was surprised at big temp and rh change, especially since dehumidifier was almost empty on a high ambient humidity day. This morning plants only needed 1/2 water than runrate. My conclusion was that transpiration had dropoed by an amazing amount during co2 outage. The power of co2!

After about an hr, w/o any changes other than turning co2 back on, temp had risen ~3F, and exhaust fan wasn’t hyperventilating.

Btw, i love glitches, they usually teach me something.

Doesn’t look like it hurt the girls:

8628FD3F-CC3E-41BF-A536-9F69D2B66484.jpeg

All controlled variables in range.
 
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Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
Or_Gro said:
Day 30 of ?84?: Blew thru that 50 pounder of CO2 (finished a partial one earlier), the cost of maintaining fresh air flow (2 vents open) in my high pm risk ambient growroom conditions.

Came in for lunch yesterday and co2 ppm was at ~350, temp down ~6F from 81-83, exhaust fan on constant suckmode trying to get rh down below 62.6% trigger setpoint. This w radiator heater at 81F outside one vent, large dehumidifier set at max dehumid’n outside other open one.

Pulled a 5 pounder off one of my corny kegs and was back in business, could have been out of co2 for 5-6 hrs.

Not having used co2 for a grow before, was surprised at big temp and rh change, especially since dehumidifier was almost empty on a high ambient humidity day. My conclusion was that transpiration had dropoed by an amazing amount during co2 outage.

After about an hr, w/o any changes other than turning co2 back on, temp had risen ~3F, and exhaust fan wasn’t hyperventilating.

Doesn’t look like it hurt the girls:

View attachment 4201956

All controlled variables in range.
Click to expand...
Btw, looking at above pic, it just amazes me how well this intense, even light is maintaining relatively flat tops and well defined sides.

Manifold and daily rotation probably contributing.
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
mr. childs said:
uvb starting today? sorry if i missed your mentioning of an exact start day for using it previously in this thread.
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Not yet, plan to do so when trichs appear, normally around week 5-6, in shorter flowering period strains. I will be discussing this, hopefully, with @Randomblame.

Post today was really about leaves ready to make trichs when plants hit that point.

Btw, thanks for all your likes in the other threads, i appreciate your support.
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
SMT69 said:
Didn't miss a hitch, and I'm bettin all variables are at about max!
Both strains seemed to have really taken off now, impressive!!
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You know, i feel like the left ones are much farther ahead than right ones, but they look so much smaller than the much taller right ones in the pucs. I need a few more hands to try to get in there and get a good pic.

On left ones, each main has 4-6 laterals that, if they go 84 days, will have pinapples on them, the main colas have 8-10 PAIRS of nodes that are almost completely closed, although still only 3/4” diam each.

The hazes have many more budsites, spread at wider distances, and smaller diam, right now.

Randomblame left this message on another thread, “Pretty sure your SSH colas will look like fat child's legs at the end; at least 20-24" long and +12" circumference, lol!”

If i get 2-3”diam i’ll be satisfied, anything larger will be gravy, and perhaps a problem.

May end up being a run on yoyos and wire. Better order yours now. Lol
 
SMT69

SMT69

Well-Known Member
Or_Gro said:
You know, i feel like the left ones are much farther ahead than right ones, but they look so much smaller than the much taller right ones in the pucs. I need a few more hands to try to get in there and get a good pic.

On left ones, each main has 4-6 laterals that, if they go 84 days, will have pinapples on them, the main colas have 8-10 PAIRS of nodes that are almost completely closed, although still only 3/4” diam each.

The hazes have many more budsites, spread at wider distances, and smaller diam, right now.

Randomblame left this message on another thread, “Pretty sure your SSH colas will look like fat child's legs at the end; at least 20-24" long and +12" circumference, lol!”

If i get 2-3”diam i’ll be satisfied, anything larger will be gravy, and perhaps a problem.

May end up being a run on yoyos and wire. Better order yours now. Lol
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RB knows what he's talkin bout :blsmoke: but i believe you're efforts will be mostly appreciated with the glorious smok, it doesnt get much better...
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
INF Flux said:
So you spin the plants? I had an idea to use a lazy susan a while back but went with the soil trays instead. Would make pruning a breeze.
Really enjoying the grow, lurking mostly and learning.
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Welcome and thanks.

Yeah, wheels were almost as large an obsession of mine as light. Some good ones:

256F98BA-A1F4-488E-8E98-92B0112882CC.jpeg

F6F62AEF-CA62-4795-9C05-C795D8E574A2.jpeg

I used to grow dwc in a 2x3x6.5 cab (constrained by 3 solid walls, and about 27” of available ht between res lid and burn point from lights) which forced me to learn a bunch of tricks in order to grow a lb per cycle.

Wheels offer lots of time/effort benefits, one of which is ability to easily expose all sides of plant to a similar amount of photons. Wheels are also great for defol, training, dealing with plant problems, etc.

I thought about lazy susan, too, individual plant and entire cab. Due to rectangular space, it then led me to think about the equip they use at airport to load luggage containers on to airplanes (roller bearings that roll in any direction). I drew some diagrams for using 1” stainless roller bearings, and quickly realized it would be cheaper to make a 1/2” plywood disk the size of my bucket bottoms w roller bearings on their bottom surface - the shortest, best solution i’ve seen/designed for a tight space is

D3C152AD-7325-4A02-B43A-409E0EBE9DBA.jpeg

I had some res water high temp issues earlier in the grow, so i took the taller plants off their wheels to take advantage of the 65F floor vs the 81-83 air temp. On those buckets, i just turn them (carefully) on the tent floor.
 
INF Flux

INF Flux

Well-Known Member
Very cool, exactly what I was thinking. I have a bummer back and knees so ease of maintenance is premium. Brilliant stuff being done with wheels. Compost tumblers with casters and 50 gal drums and such. Simple is often the way.
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
INF Flux said:
Very cool, exactly what I was thinking. I have a bummer back and knees so ease of maintenance is premium. Brilliant stuff being done with wheels. Compost tumblers with casters and 50 gal drums and such. Simple is often the way.
Click to expand...
Wheels are frickin great, just gotta find the best ones for your own setup.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Or_Gro said:
Nlimits , plan to do so when trichs appear, normally around week 5-6, in shorter flowering period strains. I will be discussing this, hopefully, with @Randomblame.

Post today was really about leaves ready to make trichs when plants hit that point.

Btw, thanks for all your likes in the other threads, i appreciate your support.
Click to expand...
Yeah, gladly! Let's talk about UV...
If you include UVB so late it will increase the active ingredients. No question! But not as strong as if you used it from the beginning because an essential effect is less used. If you expose C. to UVB light the UVR8 protein will recognize it and switch the plant in a kind of defense mode. It will stretch less and invest less vigor in growth but in the same time they are earlier focussed on flower formation and flower protection. So you not only get more thc you even get more bud when used from the beginning.
Since I've used my current bulb and find out the limits I use it permanently. In the beginning when the cuttings were repotted I start with 6h from 18 and when I go to 12/12h I reduce the distance and increase to 4+4h. From the beginning of the outing it runs practically all day long with the mainlight. But it's only a reptile bulb with FP or PureUV I would start with a 3rd of this just to be safe.
There is a good description on the Flower Power website.

The most efficient way (highest increase) is when the plants get used to UVB-light from the beginning. Many use their old tubes in the veg corner because the output is still high enough. T12 tubes deliver more than 50% after +5000h, T5 bulbs age even more slowly. They still have more UVB like a brand new reptile tube. I saw a test, as an 12% Arcadia T5HO had 49% of the initial output after +9000h and UVA was practically as intense as at the first day. I don't see a reason to change my bulbs at 80% initial output. UV works with dosage princip one can use it just a bit longer to get the same dosage. I've no UVB meter and use the test data from arcadia. At 12" my plants should get at least between 100 and 180μW/cm² with 12,5h and calculated with 140μW this would be -when my math is correct- a daily dose of ~63kJ/m²
I've calculated the dose this way:
140μW/cm² x 12,5h =1750μWh/cm² or 1,75mW/cm² x 3600(to get Joule) = 6300J/cm² : 1000 (to get kJ//cm²) x 10(to get kJ/m²) = 63kJ/m². I still HOPE it make sense .. lol! .. my math skills are not the best!

The "smaller" SSH on the right reminds me at the most impressive SSH pheno. Not that stretchy but covered with buds from top to the bottom. Lollipopped cuttings with no veg usually ends up with 32- 36" height and looks like one biiiiig single cola with a few leafes here and there. That's why I voted for baby legs..

I overwatered my soil plants btw completely the 1st week I've used CO². At least ⅓ less I would say. At night when CO² is off they seem to transpire normal but over all it's around ⅓ less in soil.

Lazy breeders often use a batch of original seeds, select a pheno they like and use this pheno to create their feminized copies(codeword: collodial silver). If they used the indika pheno yeah, it's likely that all of them look the same. Since I have my own little CS generator I do the same with outstanding phenos.
My Colodial Silver Generator.png ready to use CS looks like this.jpg
 

Attachments

Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Yeah, gladly! Let's talk about UV...
If you include UVB so late it will increase the active ingredients. No question! But not as strong as if you used it from the beginning because an essential effect is less used. If you expose C. to UVB light the UVR8 protein will recognize it and switch the plant in a kind of defense mode. It will stretch less and invest less vigor in growth but in the same time they are earlier focussed on flower formation and flower protection. So you not only get more thc you even get more bud when used from the beginning.
Since I've used my current bulb and find out the limits I use it permanently. In the beginning when the cuttings were repotted I start with 6h from 18 and when I go to 12/12h I reduce the distance and increase to 4+4h. From the beginning of the outing it runs practically all day long with the mainlight. But it's only a reptile bulb with FP or PureUV I would start with a 3rd of this just to be safe.
There is a good description on the Flower Power website.

The most efficient way (highest increase) is when the plants get used to UVB-light from the beginning. Many use their old tubes in the veg corner because the output is still high enough. T12 tubes deliver more than 50% after +5000h, T5 bulbs age even more slowly. They still have more UVB like a brand new reptile tube. I saw a test, as an 12% Arcadia T5HO had 49% of the initial output after +9000h and UVA was practically as intense as at the first day. I don't see a reason to change my bulbs at 80% initial output. UV works with dosage princip one can use it just a bit longer to get the same dosage. I've no UVB meter and use the test data from arcadia. At 12" my plants should get at least between 100 and 180μW/cm² with 12,5h and calculated with 140μW this would be -when my math is correct- a daily dose of ~63kJ/m²
I've calculated the dose this way:
140μW/cm² x 12,5h =1750μWh/cm² or 1,75mW/cm² x 3600(to get Joule) = 6300J/cm² : 1000 (to get kJ//cm²) x 10(to get kJ/m²) = 63kJ/m². I still HOPE it make sense .. lol! .. my math skills are not the best!

The "smaller" SSH on the right reminds me at the most impressive SSH pheno. Not that stretchy but covered with buds from top to the bottom. Lollipopped cuttings with no veg usually ends up with 32- 36" height and looks like one biiiiig single cola with a few leafes here and there. That's why I voted for baby legs..

I overwatered my soil plants btw completely the 1st week I've used CO². At least ⅓ less I would say. At night when CO² is off they seem to transpire normal but over all it's around ⅓ less in soil.

Lazy breeders often use a batch of original seeds, select a pheno they like and use this pheno to create their feminized copies(codeword: collodial silver). If they used the indika pheno yeah, it's likely that all of them look the same. Since I have my own little CS generator I do the same with outstanding phenos.
View attachment 4202593 View attachment 4202594
Click to expand...
Wow! Thanks RB. I just woke up and read this great post; i’ll need a few more cups of coffee to extract all the goodness!

I’v used uva-b before, in the last few weeks of flower (24” agromax t-5s, -12-24” above plants up to 15 minutes/day), for increasing trichome count.

Uva-b seems to have least available useful info of all light for cannabis, and is the most damaging light (other than uvc) to plants at at even short durations (minutes/day).

I have no way of measuring intensity; control is basically time, distance, and age of tube. I am worse than a novice at light energy calculations, so i have a lot to learn.

I have two 24” agromax uva-b t-5 tubes and a 48” t-5 tube. Given that plants are 31 days into flower, what would you suggest i do with uva-b for remainder of this grow?
Thanks.

[I’ve also used uvc (“cleanlight hobby unit”, and weaker “happiness of life light wand”:10-15 second passes over each part of plant) for pm control.

Uvc is very effective and dangerous stuff, better (with appropriate skin and eye protection), imo, than using chems on any parts of plant intended for consumption or smoke. Plants, like humans are sensitive to it, so too much damages leaves and flowers, irreversibly drying them out, at a minimum.]

I have a similar colloidal silver setup, i used it once, and generated solution of similar golden color. I sprayed test plants lightly for several weeks with no effect. I gave up on it, partly due to first failure, partly due to wanting to use available time for growing techniques rather than breeding. At some point in future i may get into breeding. Silver technique seems especially useful for making pollen if you use feminized seeds.
 
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Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
Day 31 of ?84?: Trich development becoming apparent, “diesels” a few days ahead of hazes. Dropped humidity trigger pt on exhaust fan contoller to 60 percent rh. All other controlled variables in range.

0032470E-D080-4372-8ACF-56B6E3A2BF1D.jpeg


“Diesels”:
F4C7754D-8586-40D7-B13C-939605B4A2D1.jpeg
Left (back) one is 34” ht from res lid, 20” from lollipop top; right one is 26” from res lid, 17” from lollipop top.

8EFD6D0B-E6F9-498E-92C3-983725B1CB0F.jpeg

E48C250C-83E9-4048-B195-5C88B2D6FB5B.jpeg


Hazes:

4FE9D224-9FD9-4206-BB73-870A7DD748FE.jpeg
1BE1964F-CD3F-45E9-81F7-3B50AAA0DC1B.jpeg
Left (front) is 34”ht from res lid, 20” above lollipop top; right is total 48” ht from res lid w/ top 8” bent to horizontal, 32” (24”) from lollipop top.

TallestEC849953-8F2F-430B-995D-BB09A888CB11.jpeg

ABB108D1-C6CA-4E6E-A9ED-AC418DFF139B.jpeg

739E0DF3-D4FB-4451-9140-3EE8E4F5A155.jpeg
 
M

mr. childs

Well-Known Member
Or_Gro said:
Not yet, plan to do so when trichs appear, normally around week 5-6, in shorter flowering period strains. I will be discussing this, hopefully, with @Randomblame.

Post today was really about leaves ready to make trichs when plants hit that point.

Btw, thanks for all your likes in the other threads, i appreciate your support.
Click to expand...
although i dont own qb's or do mainling anymore, i enjoy your set up & ultimately want to see you prevail. my only gripe is you dont have any bodhi gear...:bigjoint:
 
M

mr. childs

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Yeah, gladly! Let's talk about UV...
If you include UVB so late it will increase the active ingredients. No question! But not as strong as if you used it from the beginning because an essential effect is less used. ]
Click to expand...
yes, i also wish they had been used from day one. i still use the agro pure uv 2ft (75%uvb, 25%uva). i have yet to place a meter under it after 3 years to see how the output has waned. what i noticed after using it was that it gave a gold tint on the black pin heatsinks for the cobs, and to think htg/agro made a 100% uv bulb years ago. i am not brave enough for the 4ft bulb in my 4x4 tent, on 12/12.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Lol! I've made my own UVC sanitizer a few years ago for my greenhouse plants. Used grandma's bread pan (~4x4x12inch) and put a 2 pin socket in and the ballast on the backside as I saw the hobby unit the first time back in the 90s. My treatments looked like when the airport staff is searching for wappons with the handheld metal detector, lol!
I hear my mother laughin', what the hell are you doing? Do you dance with them?
But it worked wonder! Almost no mildew or boitritis anymore sometime until november and no need for a stinking sulfur burner. And to avoid spider mites, thrips and other little critters I'm still using Neem bran mixed into the soil. Works wonder too!

11w UVC CFL for DIY sanitizer2.jpg 11w UVC CFL for DIY sanitizer1.jpg


With the Agromax PureUV I would start with 24" and 1+1h per day and increase every other day by another 15mins. If you see wilting leaves or burnings turn it back by an half hour and fix it as maximum. The distance on the haze side seems already lower than 24". If so start with 2x 30 minutes on this side. These Agromax beasts are f.... strong. 440μW/cm² at 1' and 170 at 2' is ~3 times more like my reptile bulb can do at the same distance. Theoretically you would have the same dose with only 4h per day at 1' as I get with 12h. But they are not used to it and for this reason I would start with less.

I found out the selfmade collodial silver has only 15-17ppm no matter if I use the generator for 12, 24 or 48h. But the most strains need 50-100ppm strength. You need only to apply it more often(3-6x the day) and it should work like expected. I've tried it with 3 strains and with 3 treatments the day it worked okay. Not a hell lot of male flower and most show their nanners from the beginning but I was able to get a bit pollen. I picked the closed ones out, dried them and rub it through a sieve and collected pollen on a white paper.
Gibberellic acid can be used in the same way but I've not tried it yet. But @klx has used it with success..
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
mr. childs said:
yes, i also wish they had been used from day one. i still use the agro pure uv 2ft (75%uvb, 25%uva). i have yet to place a meter under it after 3 years to see how the output has waned. what i noticed after using it was that it gave a gold tint on the black pin heatsinks for the cobs, and to think htg/agro made a 100% uv bulb years ago. i am not brave enough for the 4ft bulb in my 4x4 tent, on 12/12.
Click to expand...

Yeah, 12/12 with the Agromax is probably much too much. I should have ∅ around 150μW/cm at 1' distance for sure and the Agromax at 1' has 3 times as much(440μW/cm². I've already a six pureuv 2ft. bulbs and need to change sockets and ballast because I'm using a 3ft/39w arcadia D3 desert currently. An US buddy send me a few across the pond...
It:s another winter break job to change it against twi 24w bulbs and when its done I will try it at first with 1+1h and increase every other day by 15 minutes to find out the sweet spot. Theoretically up 4h (a ⅓) with 1' distance should work in late flowering.
 
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