DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

Heisenberg said:

See post #1

You will simply use great white to sub for the aquashield+ZHO. The ancient forest is recommended but optional especially if you're not fighting slime. Also, you can reduce the amount of tea to 1 cup per 10 gallon if you are simply wanting maintenance.

Currently, every 3-4 days, I add 1OZ to my flowering buckets and 2OZ to my veg/mothers/cuttings. I divide it into OZ now simply because that's what my turkey baster holds, and it's easier than pouring it into a cup. I could get away with even less but I like to use my tea rather than let it go bad. Remember to pour some tea over the root crown.

Click to expand...

Heisenberg, can we transfer some microbial solution to the next batch of dechlorinated water, saving on additives? It seems the colonies should breed on there own with given conditions.

My ph keeps rising from 5.6 to around 6.0 every day. Im having to add about 3 tblsps of ph down to a 45 gallon reservoir. i know 6.0 isnt bad but 5.6 is better. is this constant ph drift something to worry about? is this typical in a new system?

what do you use when you foliar feed?
i used the liquid light along with some calcarb they seemed to really enjoy it!

BY the time you are ready to make new tea, your old tea has turned to mostly protozoa. Adding a cup to jump start a new brew would work in a pinch, but you will get no new fungi spores or nematodes. Essentially you lose diversity, which is the key to fighting disease. Ideally, we want the tea to unfold the same way each time and adding in old tea throws off the balance.

PH rising from 5.6 to 6.0 in 24 hours sounds normal depending on your number of plants sharing the res and their stage of growth. There is no such thing as a perfect PH level. There is a perfect PH range. In a DWC, it is desirable to set the PH to around 5.5 and let it drift upwards to 6.3ish before adjusting again.

I use liquid light + saturator + snow storm every third day. When the cuttings are young they get several foliar sprays with tea.

Heisenberg said:

BY the time you are ready to make new tea, your old tea has turned to mostly protozoa. Adding a cup to jump start a new brew would work in a pinch, but you will get no new fungi spores or nematodes. Essentially you loose diversity, which is the key to fighting disease. Ideally, we want the tea to unfold the same way each time and adding in old tea throws off the balance.

PH rising from 5.6 to 6.0 in 24 hours sounds normal depending on your number of plants sharing the res and their stage of growth. There is no such thing as a perfect PH level. There is a perfect PH range. In a DWC, it is desirable to set the PH to around 5.5 and let it drift upwards to 6.3ish before adjusting again.

I use liquid light + saturator + snow storm every third day. When the cuttings are young they get several foliar sprays with tea.

Click to expand...

Yea i notice they respond real well to foliar sprays. Thanks for the ph info. Got any good resources for general hydro knowledge? I have lots goin on in the table....i feel ive gotten pretty good in soil. Ive also had success with hydro and decided to go full on hydro. One of my main concerns is flavor. I would prefer a better tasting weed over a more potent one. Any suggestions on how to improve taste? I went organic soil last grow and 14 of 16 strains tasted great... I am always disappointed with using synthetics, in both soil and hydro. possible i am not flushing correctly in either....i usually give a week flush for synthetics and have also tried 1 1/2 weeks....any suggestions? I appreciate your input. Let me know if this thread isnt open for any discussion other than breeding bennies.

So with this method, does it mean this is ALL your plants need? Or is it in addition to a nute feeding schedule

OneHit said:

So with this method, does it mean this is ALL your plants need? Or is it in addition to a nute feeding schedule

Click to expand...

This will not provide much nutrients to the plants, it is an addition to feeding schedule. This helps keep root zone healthy and fights off disease causing pathogens etc. We are adding a bunch of 'soldiers' to our root zone....they fight the bad guys...keeping the plant healthier and swaying from having to deal with a sterile reservoir. Much like what is constantly happening outdoors, the balance of nature.

I know you said early on, that a sock or a micron bag might be to tight for the spores to get out, so I thought about media bags for fish tank filters and ordered a few different styles and think that this one is perfect.

https://www.directpetsupplies.net/discountstore/pc/PURA-MEDIA-SOCK-7-75-DIA-36-L-232p11456.htm

7.75"x36", so you can cut it into two or three bags and even reuse them. It does not have a micron rating, but if I had to guess I would say 500-700. It keeps 95% of the humus in the bag so I don't have to filter it for use in my ebb and flow system.

I see plenty of thin flakes in my tea every time I brew it, is that the fungus? It also builds up a think layer in my rez and on my air stones. I think you said that was normal, but I just wanted confirm that.

aeviaanah said:

Yea i notice they respond real well to foliar sprays. Thanks for the ph info. Got any good resources for general hydro knowledge? I have lots goin on in the table....i feel ive gotten pretty good in soil. Ive also had success with hydro and decided to go full on hydro. One of my main concerns is flavor. I would prefer a better tasting weed over a more potent one. Any suggestions on how to improve taste? I went organic soil last grow and 14 of 16 strains tasted great... I am always disappointed with using synthetics, in both soil and hydro. possible i am not flushing correctly in either....i usually give a week flush for synthetics and have also tried 1 1/2 weeks....any suggestions? I appreciate your input. Let me know if this thread isnt open for any discussion other than breeding bennies.

Click to expand...

I really don't mind DWC discussion because it all pertains to getting the best product, and harmony is a worthy goal.

I don't really know of a one stop source for DWC info. I have read many many tutorials and still occasionally read one just in case I glean something I missed. Roseman's thread and site (bubbleponics) laid the foundation for what I have learned.

As for flavor, I believe taste is largely governed by genetics. As you said, growing different strains in the same way produces some that are tasty and some that are not. Even genetics which have a reputation for intense flavor can produce seeds where that trait is absent (or diminished) from the genetic expression. So is there anything we can do to bring out the natural flavor? First we ensure proper growing conditions, and try to avoid a see-saw pattern in our buckets. (meaning, as the water goes down the ppm goes up, as it's diluted the ppm goes down) Be vigilant about topping off and you'll be fine. Next we can try to supply energy to the plants in the form of a food which seems to help produce terpenes. Many people try to do this with sugar additives like molasses. For various reasons, that is a poor and inefficient way to supply extra carbs in a DWC. I find carbs are best supplied to the plant via a foliar spray where they can be absorbed and used right away without unnecessary conversion or transport. I find the best spray is liquid light.

I flush my plants simply for the sake of saving a weeks worth of nutes, because none of us have an ideal growing situation. I have flushed as much as 3 weeks and some buckets got no flush at all, I couldn't tell much difference. I don't put much stalk into flushing for the sake of taste. If my nutrients were causing a chem taste or a snap-n-crackle when I burn, I would switch to better nutes. Using Dutch Master synthetic nutes I get a good tasting bud that burns to a clean white ash. I personally think the thing that effects taste most, after genetics, is proper curing.

Many accomplished dutch breeders claim a certain strain tastes better in soil than hydro. I certainly am inclined to believe someone with their experience, but I don't find this to be the case. I have had one of my strains grown outdoors and it was inferior to my indoor product, but it was far from a controlled experiment. I suppose I am unqualified to say for sure unless I grow an indoor plant in soil. I simply do not see how my strains could get any more tasty. My cheese seems to coat your mouth, nose and throat with a fruity goodness that can still be detected several minutes after smoking. My nightshade has such an intense piney flavor you can almost taste it before the joint even gets to you simply by inhaling the second hand smoke in the air, and it can be smelled from it's baggie outside of a car several feet away.

Of course human smell and taste are closely connected. The more potent your bud smells, the more your brain will taste it.

Goldowitz said:

I know you said early on, that a sock or a micron bag might be to tight for the spores to get out, so I thought about media bags for fish tank filters and ordered a few different styles and think that this one is perfect.

I see plenty of thin flakes in my tea every time I brew it, is that the fungus? It also builds up a think layer in my rez and on my air stones. I think you said that was normal, but I just wanted confirm that.

Click to expand...

Wow, great find! Thanks for sharing. Certainly gives us more options for brewing tea. However, I have found that not filtering the tea what so ever doesn't cause any real problems except black speckled roots. Currently what I do is simply pour my tea through a cheap fish net from the pet store and it filters out all but the smallest chunks.

The flakes are probably biofilm that is becoming scaley and breaking apart. I do not see this in my tea. I do see it occasionally in my veg buckets if I go a long time between changes. It probably has something to do with your water, and is negligible.

Heisenberg said:

I really don't mind DWC discussion because it all pertains to getting the best product, and harmony is a worthy goal.

I don't really know of a one stop source for DWC info. I have read many many tutorials and still occasionally read one just in case I glean something I missed. Roseman's thread and site (bubbleponics) laid the foundation for what I have learned.

As for flavor, I believe taste is largely governed by genetics. As you said, growing different strains in the same way produces some that are tasty and some that are not. Even genetics which have a reputation for intense flavor can produce seeds where that trait is absent from the genetic expression. So is there anything we can do to bring out the natural flavor? First we ensure proper growing conditions, and try to avoid a see-saw pattern in our buckets. (meaning, as the water goes down the ppm goes up, as it's diluted the ppm goes down) Be vigilant about topping off and you'll be fine. Next we can try to supply energy to the plants in the form of a food which seems to help produce terpenes. Many people try to do this with sugar additives like molasses. For various reasons, that is a poor and inefficient way to supply extra carbs in a DWC. I find carbs are best supplied to the plant via a foliar spray where they can be absorbed and used right away without unnecessary conversion or transport. I find the best spray is liquid light.

I flush my plants simply for the sake of saving a weeks worth of nutes, because none of us have an ideal growing situation. I have flushed as much as 3 weeks and some buckets got no flush at all, I couldn't tell much difference. I don't put much stalk into flushing for the sake of taste. If my nutrients were causing a chem taste or a snap-n-crackle when I burn, I would switch to better nutes. Using Dutch Master synthetic nutes I get a good tasting bud that burns to a clean white ash. I personally think the thing that effects taste most, after genetics, is proper curing.

Many accomplished dutch breeders claim a certain strain tastes better in soil than hydro. I certainly am inclined to believe someone with their experience, but I don't find this to be the case. I have had one of my strains grown outdoors and it was inferior to my indoor product, but it was far from a controlled experiment. I suppose I am unqualified to say for sure unless I grow an indoor plant in soil. I simply do not see how my strains could get any more tasty. My cheese seems to coat your mouth, nose and throat with a fruity goodness that can still be detected 10 minutes after smoking. My nightshade has such an intense piney flavor you can sometimes taste it before the joint even gets to you simply by inhaling the second hand smoke in the air, and it can be smelled from it's baggie outside of a car several feet away.

Of course human smell and taste are closely connected. The more potent your bud smells, the more your brain will taste it.



Wow, great find! Thanks for sharing. Certainly gives us more options for brewing tea. However, I have found that not filtering the tea what so ever doesn't cause any real problems except black speckled roots. Currently what I do is simply pour my tea through a cheap fish net from the pet store and it filters out all but the smallest chunks.

The flakes are probably biofilm that is becoming scaley and breaking apart. I do not see this in my tea. I do see it occasionally in my veg buckets if I go a long time between changes. It probably has something to do with your water, and is negligible.

Click to expand...

Yea good point, it may not be the organics or synthetics that are determining the tastes of weed but rather the actual nutrient company and what they use in their lineups...

aeviaanah said:

Yea good point, it may not be the organics or synthetics that are determining the tastes of weed but rather the actual nutrient company and what they use in their lineups...

Click to expand...

And genetics + curing.

Sorry for a such a long reply. I have been very busy attacking this slime.And winning it seems! Slimer in ghostbusters, Bring it on bitch!

Basically made my 1st batch of tea using these products. An endo ecto myco product from symbio uk,it contains Endo Mycorrhizal . Glomus intraradices, G. mosseae, G. aggregatum, G. etunicatum G. clarum, G. monosporum,
G. deserticola, Gigaspora margarita, Paraglomus brasilianum

Ecto Mycorrhizal species - Pisolithus tinctorius, Rhizopogon sp.

Also added are other non mycorrhizal fungi these are.
Phanerochaete chrysosporium, Geomyces pannorum, Aspergillus oryzae.

Also in this product are a blend of beneficial bacteria including.
Bacillus subtilis, Bacillus amyloliquefaciens, Bacillus licheniformis

Plus
Seaweed Powder
Bentonite
zeolite plus trace elements.
this is on ebay uk,type in mycorhizzal, the price is so cheap £20 a kilo or £3 per 100grams amazing, it has endo and ecto, bacillus plus others... barr the trichoderma, P.S i am in no way affiliated with this company...Next is where my tub of canna aktrivator comes in very handy as it is pure trichoderma nothing else. I also used the plagron worm castings along with bokashi oats for there pathogenic suppressing properties. I did not sock up my castings and oats, just let them loose !Tate and lyle black treacle (molasses) Just to note that i used aquatic dechlorinator which cancels out chlorine and a couple of other harmful chemicals, it states how it is good for benficials, so something to consider there for all who would rather add 5 ml per 10 litres with a bottle costing £10 $16 stretching over 500 litres or approx 100 gallons. Rather than going to buy filtered, dechlorinated or RO water. I inoculated 1 grow that was suffering quite bad with brown slime algae- a 300 litre 4 tray RDWC. Although res maintenance and pyth off and regen a root did start to bring everything back to life.tHEY WERE ALL CHEMICAL ALTERNATIVES TO NATURES HEARSED ANSWER WHICH HEISENBERG HAS POETLY CULMINATED FOR ALL TO SEE. Regen a root is a great product, I have just tested it by itself on a new grow with great results. I really recomend adding this to the res after the tea has taken hold , possibly with the tea as it doesnt give the plant any food source as such , but the combination of chemicals triggers the plants natural immune system to rid itself, as does the halo which contains the Harpin protein. This along side the tea has caused coral like rooting to form in the 4th week of flower. Simply stunning.Thankyou so much! I am so happy to see the plants growing nicely although look a week behind , and the roots forming strongly again so late into flower. It has been 3 days and the ph is quite high, 7.9. Although there is no signs of pathogens, plants look good and the roots are growing? I have been using citric acid as my ph down and also noticed bits of roots floating in my control bucket which draws water in to recirculate, so I am putting it down to that? I have read this thread, my natural intuition was pointing me to the beneficials, but the brewing recipe you have shared heisenberg is truly commendable.It is fellow people like yourself who pass there knowledge to others which cause the house of worldwide knowledge to steadily rise brick by brick!All the info I learn is passed around communities so we can all beat the slime and corporate giants that will mislead you within made to fail producs. Apparntly this is what makes the world go round. Has anyone explored farming energy via hemp farming to chang the whole concept of being controlled via a limited number of fuel source supplies?...That is another story! Did you know the 1st American flag was made of a hemp cotton?...Anyways dont get me started on that , I think there is a new threaed and even our late Jack Herer realised how hemp can literally save the world. RIP Brother. you did so much for the cause..... I will upload some photos of the roots as they are pushing through so late in. There is the ever presence of the humic after residue, It actually smells nice, like a rich earth smell- like the myco soluble, the residue is dark. What are your opinions on having the bokashi in there?...also There are 2 product in the uk called vitalink bio pac and bio plus. The biopac actually smells like the ewc tea but stronger. It has 37 microbe variety including 13 trichoderma ,some bacillus, endo and ecto myco- what it also states is that it also contains enzymes. Would it cause a problem do we thimk adding some of this to the brew to brew up?....do enzymes breed the same as bacteria or would they just facilitate the beneficials breeding in the brew, to just breed more?... I have also found that adding my beneficial brew straight to 300 litres of fresh water , not left to air, seems to have had no effect, only time will tell. After this one I am going bio ponic, weekly brews and a 3 tage bio filter are being plumbed in. All very exciting. This blog has oprened my eyes to the 'tree of life' theory where every living systems is linked sybiotically through bacteria, the true workhorse of our planet!

I am starting my second brew, i have added cavemans bat guano as I canno get hold of the ancient humus in the uk,( doing my head in a little!), I though the next oldest thing inline with biodiversity in microlife would be that of cave aged, dead insects and animal and faeces rotted down over hundreds of years.

Also I have added a small bit of the bio pac, I will let you know how it goes! Thanks for your reply Mr Bond, I like bond, he is cool! and Jack Bauer is another agent favourite of mine!

Hey Doc does this tea tent your roots any? I added 4 gallons to my system. Its like a brown tint and darker with the black specks you spoke of. I did smell the roots and they smelled good and earthy. Now I use distilled water to brew the tea but tap water for my flush. My tap water is comes out at 65ppm. So im sure I will have to inocculate the roots like I did before.

drekoushranada said:

Hey Doc does this tea tent your roots any? I added 4 gallons to my system. Its like a brown tint and darker with the black specks you spoke of. I did smell the roots and they smelled good and earthy. Now I use distilled water to brew the tea but tap water for my flush. My tap water is comes out at 65ppm. So im sure I will have to inocculate the roots like I did before.

Click to expand...

The browning is probably from your nutes micro formula or else your plants are just getting old. As long as you have a good smell, and the last couple inches of your roots are white and seem to be stimulated, your fine. Often the very tips will get a sort of gel looking blob hanging from them, this is normal and comes from a fungus that only lives on the root tips.

Heisenberg said:

The browning is probably from your nutes micro formula or else your plants are just getting old. As long as you have a good smell, and the last couple inches of your roots are white and seem to be stimulated, your fine. Often the very tips will get a sort of gel looking blob hanging from them, this is normal and comes from a fungus that only lives on the root tips.

Click to expand...

Ok thanks a ton.

heisenberg, I am currently using Aquashield and Roots Excel in RDWC bubble buckets. What are your thoughts on GH Subculture B and Subculture M? Are they a worthy addition? Straight to rez or as a tea crown feed?

Edit: Would adding Botanicare ZHO to my Aquashield instead of Subculture M/B be a better option?

medicine21 said:

heisenberg, I am currently using Aquashield and Roots Excel in RDWC bubble buckets. What are your thoughts on GH Subculture B and Subculture M? Are they a worthy addition? Straight to rez or as a tea crown feed?

Edit: Would adding Botanicare ZHO to my Aquashield instead of Subculture M/B be a better option?

Click to expand...

ZHO is a great product and cheaper than Sub M, so go with that. All your products can be brewed tea style to make them last longer. If I were you, since you don't currently have a slime problem, I would get a bag of ancient forest and just make the tea from that. You will get all the fungi and bacteria you need for maintenance and at 1 handful per gallon, it'll last a long time.

Heisenberg said:

ZHO is a great product and cheaper than Sub M, so go with that. All your products can be brewed tea style to make them last longer. If I were you, since you don't currently have a slime problem, I would get a bag of ancient forest and just make the tea from that. You will get all the fungi and bacteria you need for maintenance and at 1 handful per gallon, it'll last a long time.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I change my rez once a week. My preference would be to add the products to the rez instead of brewing teas separately. I have about 400L of solution to take care of.

Do you think ZHO + Aquashield each once a week with fresh rez give me enough protection? My water temps typically run 73-75*.

I guess I can't add GO Ancient Forest or ZHO directly to rez???

Wow this thread is awesome. I started reading on page one a week ago, got caught up yesterday, and it's still current so I can chime in with my results.

I got the slime when I first tried bubbleponics in a bubble cloner. I got it every time. H202 merely slowed it down. Strangely I did two DWC grows in totes after that as tests and they worked great without issues. But then I went all out and built two 8 site RDWC systems. I got the slime right away, and probably because I used the same meters for both, they were both infected.

Here are my observations:
-My hydro store guy (who admitted to not knowing anything about DWC) recommended Hygrozyme. Huge, huge mistake. I checked my reservoirs the next day and the slime indeed had exploded. I had handfuls of white goo free-floating around and the pumps were both clogged with the stuff. I should have taken pics but I was freaking out.
-Plants with smaller, less developed root systems are the hardest hit. My flowering room had plants with huge roots that filled up 4 gallon buckets and even though the res was full of slime those large (4 ft) plants were still healthy.
-As most people have commented, it begins as a clear film on roots, the develops into a white semen-like gel, and finally into a brown drippy slime.
-My hydro store had a compost tea but it contained kelp. I tried it anyways with no real results. I created tea from Ancient Forest, Great White, and Aquashield and after a flush and initial treatment the results are astounding. I have never seen roots so glistening and healthy.
-I had one small flowering plant that was hit really hard by the slime. It's roots are far from white and glistening, but they are slime free after being sprayed with H202 and then given the tea treatment. Hopefully it will get better with new root growth.

I am so glad I found this recipe. Thanks a lot to Heisenberg and all other posters. However, this algae has made me rethink RDWC. The tea making isn't a huge expense or chore, but it is a chore and it's yet one more thing I have to make room and time for. Depending on how the rest of this cycle goes I might convert my systems to aero or flood and drain.

medicine21 said:

I guess I can't add GO Ancient Forest or ZHO directly to rez???

Click to expand...

You don't want to do that. That's basically throwing dirt into your hydro system. The key is the tea. You can add Great White, Aquashield, or ZHO directly to the res but why not do it the right way?

Olympus Mons said:

I am so glad I found this recipe. Thanks a lot to Heisenberg and all other posters. However, this algae has made me rethink RDWC. The tea making isn't a huge expense or chore, but it is a chore and it's yet one more thing I have to make room and time for. Depending on how the rest of this cycle goes I might convert my systems to aero or flood and drain.

Click to expand...

I hear where you are coming from. After dealing with the Slime on my first RDWC run I too questioned if I wanted to go through this process on every run.

Getting my system inoculated right off the bat on my second go round made a world of difference and I have had ZERO evidence of slime and have not bothered with on going Tea Treatment just the Aquashield. It's made life a lot easier. Heisenberg helped me kick the slime's ass!

Sooo..... like many many before me I have had issues with the slime. I just got done cleaning everything in my veg system (4, 3gal buckets) because I had some problems with slimy roots. I'm kinda on a budget right now and one of my fellow gardeners had a few things I think I might be able to make work effectively but just wanted to make sure. So my list of ingredients are : Great white, Mighty Crobes, Molasses. Now I am hoping that this Mighty Crobes stuff will take the place of the EWC in the tea since I'm pretty sure that it's concentrated EWC tea itself. So my question is if I'm right about this Might Crobes stuff can I effectively use it to brew MORE beneficial microbes starting with that stuff and does it seem worth it or even a good idea? Mighty Crobes info/website

I just want to say thanks a ton in advance. I will eventually get the proper ingredients and know that this should help with my issues judging by the endless counts of cases where these has fixed my EXACT problem. Awesome info, this is life saving shit, you deserve an RIU award or something, making this a sticky isn't enough IMO.

Hi TCM,

Although the Great White should help you out with it's varying mycorrhizae, bacteria, and trichoderma, I question the use of the Mighty Crobes instead of the Ancient Forest EWC. Although it is a diverse ingredient containing thousands of bennies (according to their website), the Mighty Crobes doesn't say anything about including any beneficial fungi. It also states that... "Mighty Crobes adds not only organic material to the soil but it adds macro, micro and trace nutrients as well." Adding nutrients might mess with your grow a bit. If I recall correctly, organic material can cause the slime problem to escalate quickly. It says it works with hydro, but I feel this is really more of a soil additive. You could always try to make a tea with these ingredients and give it a run, the worst that could happen is you'll get some nute burn, a slime explosion, and be mixing up a fresh rez again right? How valuable is your time? If you want to save yourself some potential hassle... just get some Ancient Forest. It's only like $12... (and get some Aquashield while you're at it too, another $12! thats it!)

Cheers!

Mr. Bond