DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

Does anyone think that it would harm the microorganisms to use a small inline pump to circulate and aerate the tea when brewing instead of using air stones?

The water would be pumped out of the bottom of the bucket, then allowed to cascade back in through the top, aerating the water and breaking the surface like a waterfall effect.
This way the water will be constantly circulated and agitated instead of having to be manually stirred ever few hours. Also it will probably oxygenate slightly more than stones.

From what I've heard, you don't have to actually be breaking the surface...some people just use a submersible pump in bucket so that the surface is turning over..guy used outdoor water treatment ponds as his example...wish I could remember the thread? Search DO ,dissolved oxygen maybe?

I don't think it would harm them, but I think pumping air is more cost efective.

Spanky84 said:

I don't think it would harm them, but I think pumping air is more cost efective.

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It's probably comparable, maybe a little less costly to get a cheap air pump and a stone or two.
It just happens that I have no extra air pumps or stones at the moment, but I do have a rather nice 350gph external mag drive water pump,
some uniseals and pvc pipe, and vinyl tubing handy, so I thought I might construct a single bucket recirculating DWC with faucet like flow to aerate the water,
provided that the pump wouldn't harm the tea creatures during the brewing process.

Ultimately they will end up in my main RDWC system anyway which also has a more powerful mag drive pump,
so hopefully that won't harm them either.

Scroga said:

From what I've heard, you don't have to actually be breaking the surface...some people just use a submersible pump in bucket so that the surface is turning over..guy used outdoor water treatment ponds as his example...wish I could remember the thread? Search DO ,dissolved oxygen maybe?

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There's actually a guy over on another forum who did an aeration experiment with a dissolved oxygen meter and several different methods. They were all fairly comparable but breaking the surface e.g. waterfall or faucet, was a bit better than all the rest. Water temperature turns out to be a much more deterministic factor in how much DO can be held by the water.

Personally I am not a huge fan of air stones and air pumps. I think they introduce as much heat if not more than an external water pump, and in my experience, they fail at a rather disappointing rate, needing regular replacement.
Also I frequently experience uneven flow from the nozzles (I use 4 outlet pumps). I am in the process of switching over to pump waterfall style DWC buckets and am eliminating air stones.

Do you have a journal I can follow?
I know what you mean about the four outlets being unreliable..i use em too..i was thinking of looking into the pond type pumps and using a manifold to create multiple outlets...

Where does your pump sit with the water fall configuration?

Redoctober said:

It's probably comparable, maybe a little less costly to get a cheap air pump and a stone or two.
It just happens that I have no extra air pumps or stones at the moment, but I do have a rather nice 350gph external mag drive water pump,
some uniseals and pvc pipe, and vinyl tubing handy, so I thought I might construct a single bucket recirculating DWC with faucet like flow to aerate the water,
provided that the pump wouldn't harm the tea creatures during the brewing process.

Ultimately they will end up in my main RDWC system anyway which also has a more powerful mag drive pump,
so hopefully that won't harm them either.

Click to expand...

Well the setup I am planning to use bennies in has 2 pumps and pours into one the res on return (EBB n GRO), so it would be the same for me then.
So, I am also interested in the answer.

Ok I found the guys post in the how too rdwc thread...
This is a quote from that thread....


Well, no. Almost, but no.

For you are about to be introduced to Flooming...I don't use air stones. You are just lifting the water to the surface. The O2 doesn't go in via the bubbles....a myth. It just lifts the water where the air, does what is called a mass transfer of O2, across a wide surface, using the atmospheric pressure of the day.

I've run my tests, used a DO kit, and I don't use hot pressurized air when I NEED to keep the water cool against rot root. I use a tiny water pump, pointing straight up, 60 size. We are the only ones using these stones against ourselves and I lost a LOT to Rot.

Others, fish keepers and water treatment have all gone to flooming with water, not flooming (lifting and spreading) with hot air.













https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/353494/blog29880-next.html

All his pics didn't post...their on page 14 of the how to uc/rdwc thread

Not trying to discredit the waterfall setup, in sure it works awesome..

Scroga said:

Do you have a journal I can follow?
I know what you mean about the four outlets being unreliable..i use em too..i was thinking of looking into the pond type pumps and using a manifold to create multiple outlets...

Where does your pump sit with the water fall configuration?

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Unfortunately I don't have a journal because I live in an area where this hobby is frowned upon, but maybe I can take a picture of my setup. Basically the configuration is that the buckets are all connected in-line like a normal RDWC, but instead of air stones, the pump pulls the water from the control bucket then gets split 4 or 6 ways and gets top fed into each bucket, as though a faucet were constantly running. THis creates high oxygenation and a great water and nutrient circuation. Also you only have to deal with a control bucket as opposed to each individual DWC bucket which is nice.

It's very similar to this, maybe with slight variation: https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/497270-how-rdwc-ucdwc-diy-advanced.html

Not trying to discredit the waterfall setup, in sure it works awesome..

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It works well. Actually all the methods worked fairly comparably, I think the waterfall i.e. breaking the surface just edged out the others, but I'm sure any of them would produce fine results (flume, air stones etc.). Chilling the water is the best way to increase dissolved oxygen, but if you're employing beneficial tea, you don't want it too low because it starts to inhibit microbial activity as you get down into the 60's.

bassman999 said:

Well the setup I am planning to use bennies in has 2 pumps and pours into one the res on return (EBB n GRO), so it would be the same for me then.
So, I am also interested in the answer.

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Cool! We'll do the experiment together!
I just had a plant with bad root rot that had stopped uptaking any water at all for several weeks and was dying, be completely rehabilitated by compost tea. It is my own custom tea recipe but utilizes most of Heisenberg's original ingredients.
Tea is pure magic! I even see "fuzzy" root that you read about! I am definitely using it on my vegetable garden this summer.

"Just relax and give in to the power of the tea."
-Hansel to Derek Zoolander

Redoctober, there is another thing I have remembered. When I brew tea, I always get a mass of slime and EWC particles at the botom of my brewer. I'm not sure, but I think that would end up inside your pump and do really nasty things to it.

Spanky84 said:

Very nice. What nutes did you add?

How old is your girl?

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she is now 8 weeks old but the first 6 were spent fighting slime until I followed your advice so im gonna say she's just over 2 weeks old I ordered ionic HYDRO grow, bloom and pk boost and they seem to be working fine if not slightly staining the upper roots. I so grateful for your advice m8, I was ready to knock it on the head and stick to soil

A waterfall or flume effect works very well to add oxygen to the res. Pumps will not harm your bennies and most of them live in the root mass and stay there anyway. I have never tried using a pump in the concentrated brew but I would expect clogging to be an issue. Stones may be best for that.

Great info here guys, and glad to hear the pump(s) will have lil or no effect!

how much of a problem ARE red stems as even though my girl has recovered well and is thriving, the stems still appear red although I have noticed some improvement recently?

Spanky84 said:

Redoctober, there is another thing I have remembered. When I brew tea, I always get a mass of slime and EWC particles at the botom of my brewer. I'm not sure, but I think that would end up inside your pump and do really nasty things to it.

Click to expand...

Heisenberg said:

A waterfall or flume effect works very well to add oxygen to the res. Pumps will not harm your bennies and most of them live in the root mass and stay there anyway. I have never tried using a pump in the concentrated brew but I would expect clogging to be an issue. Stones may be best for that.

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Yeah I was contemplating this. I have a few 200 micron filter bags that I could put over the intake of the pump to prevent any large particulants from being sucked in, but getting the concentrated brew in there would be problematic. As it is, I pack my humisoil inside a 200 micron filter bag before putting it into the tea to brew - this probably isn't necessary with air stones.

Maybe air stones are the way to go. I wish there was a way to constantly agitate the brew, other than just stirring it around once or twice a day.

I just got a cheap venturi which I'm very anxious to use as well. It honestly probably isn't any more effective than top feeding the water for oxygenation, but it's a new toy that I want to play with!

DrOfWelshMagic said:

how much of a problem ARE red stems as even though my girl has recovered well and is thriving, the stems still appear red although I have noticed some improvement recently?

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Looks fine to me. Sometimes they can release pigment that makes them red, usually the stems of the fan leaves exhibit this. This is perfectly natural. The stems themselves can turn brown and lignify as a stress response. Lignin is a precursor to bark, which forms anyway when the stem gets thick enough - it has to in order to support its own weight. In hydro, I've had times where the pH is off for a few days and I begin to get brown stripes on the stems. It's not ideal because lignin restricts growth potential, but when you correct the issues, be they pH, mites, nutrient deficiency, root rot etc. the stems will turn back to a nice healthy green. Just happened to me as a matter of fact.

I had a plant with bad root rot, but I mixed in the tea and two weeks later the upper part of the plant is now flourishing. It's sometimes not possible to convert back the part of a plant if it is badly damaged, but you can get new nice upper growth.

Your plant looks fine though. She'll grow up nice and healthy. You have nothing to worry about

Redoctober said:

Yeah I was contemplating this. I have a few 200 micron filter bags that I could put over the intake of the pump to prevent any large particulants from being sucked in, but getting the concentrated brew in there would be problematic. As it is, I pack my humisoil inside a 200 micron filter bag before putting it into the tea to brew - this probably isn't necessary with air stones.

Maybe air stones are the way to go. I wish there was a way to constantly agitate the brew, other than just stirring it around once or twice a day.

I just got a cheap venturi which I'm very anxious to use as well. It honestly probably isn't any more effective than top feeding the water for oxygenation, but it's a new toy that I want to play with!

Click to expand...

That might again be a problem because filter at the intake would probably get clogged very quickly and stop the pump from working (or even damage it).