DWC Issues - confusing. (Please help, read everywhere)

Just realised bloom is only adding extra salts and some magnesium. the other two have the same nutrients in - I think the idea was to switch from grow to bloom with micro during flower. Had read that these plants excrete salt through their leaves thus nute burn. Mixed just grow and micro now and its much easier to get a decent ppm balance.

Lots of folks think changing to bloom nutes & boosting with P/K in the transition from veg-flower is helping when it really doesn't. Your plants are going to need more N than P/K for the first 2 wks of flower since they will still technically be in "veg" and they will stretch...which uses up the N. If you switch to bloom feed too early, your plants are going to stall out and yellow prematurely since they were deprived of the N they needed early on. P/K boost etc are best in the last few wks of flower then taper off feed completely the final week of flower. When flipping from veg to flower run veg nutes the first week of flower, then 50/50 mix of bloom and veg the second week. After the stretch is done is when I go full bloom nutes.You should check out the Lucas Formula if you aren't familiar with it. I follow it (loosely) for my hydroponics and its tried and true.

So am I right in saying you dont supplement with bloom nutrients during veg? I've been doing that for a while and all the plants I've tried to grow have died apart from the one grow. Oldmeduser I just realised what I said previously is roughly what you're saying. Little misleading it states on the back of the nutrient bottles to add an equal part of bloom nutes to grow and micro for seedlings and starting plants. A lot of salt for a small plant, I shall check it out now hydrored, thanks

equal parts doesn't necessarily mean a lot of nutrients. if the ppm is high, then that is a lot of nutrients. if you put a small amount of all three in water, you can keep a small ppm. typically, these nutrients are separated to prevent them from binding together in the container and rendering each other useless. calcium binds to phosphorus, for example, and they form a white substance that will drift to the bottom of the container. if you use a one part fert, you need to use it all up rather quickly (which means grow many plants), before the material bind together. otherwise you have wasted your money. I've only been told one thing about the supplemental bloom ferts and this was from a grow shop owner: he said you only use them once early in the bloom cycle and that's all. I've never used them or done other research on the matter, so can't say if that is right. I do know however that it is corporate nature to sell as much as possible to the public, to make money. so take that bit for what it's worth. if the ferts by themselves should be good enough, that maybe that's all you need.

Darkenedangel said:

Just realised bloom is only adding extra salts and some magnesium. the other two have the same nutrients in - I think the idea was to switch from grow to bloom with micro during flower. Had read that these plants excrete salt through their leaves thus nute burn. Mixed just grow and micro now and its much easier to get a decent ppm balance.

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You need to use some Bloom nutes in veg too for a balanced profile with the P and K to maintain and encourage healthy root growth. Just use it 1/3 to 1/2 as much of the Grow and Micro which I use in equal parts during veg with the lower Bloom amount.

You can get nute burn but not from the addition of some bloom but from running your ppm too high.

Starting a tub with clones I'll put in some potassium silicate, pH that down to 6 - 7 then add 1ml/L of G and M and 1/3ml/L of the bloom. Dash of CalMag and she's ready to go at around 300 - 400 ppm.

Early on, like 2001 I used all 3 at the same level for a few years before changing and still grew healthy plants.

Something most people don't take into account is the effect of things like humidity, (RH), temperature and light levels and how it influences your choice of ppm levels.

Different strains will grow best with different levels too and it can take a few runs of the same strain to really dial it in. About the best way to determine that is to push them until they burn then back off about 10% or more. Note the conditions in the above paragraph as you grow them. Hopefully you take notes.

I have kush that will go into flower around 1500ppm happily but that would burn the crap out of my Northern Mist which is sativa dominant. 1000 or less is best for her.

HydroRed said:

Lots of folks think changing to bloom nutes & boosting with P/K in the transition from veg-flower is helping when it really doesn't. Your plants are going to need more N than P/K for the first 2 wks of flower since they will still technically be in "veg" and they will stretch...which uses up the N. If you switch to bloom feed too early, your plants are going to stall out and yellow prematurely since they were deprived of the N they needed early on. P/K boost etc are best in the last few wks of flower then taper off feed completely the final week of flower. When flipping from veg to flower run veg nutes the first week of flower, then 50/50 mix of bloom and veg the second week. After the stretch is done is when I go full bloom nutes.You should check out the Lucas Formula if you aren't familiar with it. I follow it (loosely) for my hydroponics and its tried and true.

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I totally agree with almost everything above including the part about the Lucas Formula which I just bought 3-part nutes so I can start doing that. Can't lower the N after stretch very well without depriving the plants of other things they need with the 2-part stuff like Sensi and Connie.

A week before I plan to start flowering I add some more N and M but give a heavier dose of Bloom and a half dose of Big Bud to prime the pump. In the DWC they already are at fairly high levels of veg nutes so they are going into stretch with lots of N and all the rest to help get those bud sites going fast. I noticed quite a difference over waiting until the flip to introduce bloom and bloom enhancers. They'll go on the Lucas feed after the stretch but will also get regular Big Bud with the last dose in week 5 of an 8 week plant.

You're totally right about not going to bloom mix only when flipping as the plants are putting on a lot off new growth and need a lot of N for that. I also keep running my veg light for most of the stretch to help hold that back and that seems to work pretty good. I'll add some flowering light with either a 150W hps to go with the 400W MH light or if it's a bit larger area to cover put a 400 hps together with the MH.

I've met a few grow shop owners who don't know much about what they are selling so unless I know them I take it with a grain of salt. After all they are hoping to sell you something as they should.

Even if that grow store owner has been growing for years, chances are good they won't be much help. People need to learn and get their own experience. I used to be friends with a grow store owner and one day he said "You don't need 90% of the things I sell in here." But when I showed up and didn't buy anything, it was obvious he wasn't so happy. If you walk in that door, they want you to buy stuff. There's way too many choices, like cereal boxes. The makers know that when people are given many choices, they tend to buy more because you can't help yourself. Walmart makes millions on selling you stuff you don't need. It's human nature. You have to guard yourself against reckless spending.

That's for sure Polishpollack

When I was in BC for the month of August I was shopping around all the hydro stores to be able to get a better deal on stuff I needed to expand operations here for the winter. At one shop the guy was wearing a General Hydro t-shirt and when I asked for AN nutes he tried to foist GH on me then some other brand that I'd never heard of and he was bad-mouthing AN the whole time. You don't shoot down a customer's choice when they've already said that's what they want. Didn't buy a damn thing tho he did have a 1000W MH/HPS magnetic ballast for $125 I now kick my own ass for not buying. I have the MH only version of that and ended up having to buy a conversion bulb for mine so I can use it for flowering that cost a lot more than the HPS version of the same bulb. Damn good bulb tho being an EYE Hortilux.

Both of the other stores that I did buy goods at messed up on bulbs. One sold me the wrong kind of bulb and some 10 yo Big Bud. Took that back and swapped both for the 1000W conversion bulb. The other store where I bought the bulk of things I brought back up north with me sold me a 400W Gavita bulb that was supposed to be a MH veg bulb but turned out to be for flowering with an HPS ballast. Still usable for that but not what I wanted. They had my AN nutes and the price was excellent compared to up here. $40/gal for the 3 part nutes so all stocked up for a while. Friendly folks with great selection so I dropped $600 there. Got a cool grinder/storage container tossed in that cost $10 online. Medtainer.com

Walmart. lol I just don't go there.

OldMedUser said:

I totally agree with almost everything above including the part about the Lucas Formula which I just bought 3-part nutes so I can start doing that. Can't lower the N after stretch very well without depriving the plants of other things they need with the 2-part stuff like Sensi and Connie.

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I had to go back to the GH 3 part after using FloraNova Bloom 1 part for this exact reason. Some plants just require more of a tailored feeding you just cant do with 1 & 2 part nutes. FN bloom is absolutely awesome stuff, just cant tailor it.

HydroRed said:

I had to go back to the GH 3 part after using FloraNova Bloom 1 part for this exact reason. Some plants just require more of a tailored feeding you just cant do with 1 & 2 part nutes. FN bloom is absolutely awesome stuff, just cant tailor it.

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i get shit for this all the time.

and plants don't need calcium or magnesium, because those are micros, and the plant can get it from water that has none in it.

n00bs are cool sometimes, calling your multi-pound plants 'shitty' while growing an eighth under 100w of cfls...

HydroRed said:

I had to go back to the GH 3 part after using FloraNova Bloom 1 part for this exact reason. Some plants just require more of a tailored feeding you just cant do with 1 & 2 part nutes. FN bloom is absolutely awesome stuff, just cant tailor it.

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I would never use GH nutes for a couple of reasons like they refuse to talk to people if you mention that you grow pot and they sold their soul to Monsanto!

As you like the KISS principle, (Keep It Simple Stoner ) you should think about pH Perfect nutes and forget about pHing your stuff ever again. I'm loving it!

OldMedUser said:

I would never use GH nutes for a couple of reasons like they refuse to talk to people if you mention that you grow pot and they sold their soul to Monsanto!

As you like the KISS principle, (Keep It Simple Stoner ) you should think about pH Perfect nutes and forget about pHing your stuff ever again. I'm loving it!

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The FloraNova works perfect for buffering the pH of my tap water right to or just above my target number. Dont hardly need to use pH down when I use it. The 3 part...not so much haha

The FloraNova is a bloom booster you like? If so you could use AN base nutes and the Nova. The base nutes aren't hardly much more if any more than the demonic GH stuff.

Now I'm starting to sound like a paid shill for AN but I'm not. I've helped a lot of nOObs get started at other forums ,(cough420magcough), and those that started with AN seemed to have the best luck at pulling decent weight on their first go if they didn't screw up something else badly.

The 8x4 tent has become available so hopefully I can have that up and running ASAP but in the meantime I'll have my flower ballasts back and can get my 4 girls budding up in my grow room like they so want to. My damn RH/Heat controller and 6" inline fan was over there too and I didn't want to use my new 1000W for a 6 square foot space. Will be starting a grow journal soon to give the history with pics of these 6 plants that sprouted June 14 from seed.

The FloraNova is a 1 part nutrient that comes in grow & Bloom. I use Humboldt Ginormous 0/18/16 for my boost.

Great. Hard to know what every type of nute is or does like knowing what each of the 3000 or more strains of pot is or does.

But Humbolt I can understand without worries because if you don't know that name and history then go grow tomatoes!

I'm wanting to do some plants in decent organics from the bottle in ProMix and if I could get Humbolt here I'd jump on it. Tried Earth Juice and didn't have decent results and my efforts with the GoBox from General Organics/GH/Mon$atan were pretty crappy too. Not ready to give up on some organic growing just because it has been less than productive for me as it does seem to be a little tastier and the feel good aura about consuming organics doesn't hurt either.

What really pisses me off is organic fundamentalists that equate hydroponic nutes to the world of really nasty chemicals like Glyphosate. The main weed killer in Roundup.

Nutrient salts are what our plants feed on whether they come from pure salts in the water, hydro, or the salts that the bacteria, fungi and other beneficial organisms in the soil toil to make to produce what your plants need for food. Salts.

We also need many salts to live as does everything that can be called life on the planet. Get low on potassium and you'll have a heart attack. Too much sodium and your blood pressure will go through the roof and you'll stroke out.

Low levels of many salts cause us and every living thing on this earth to suffer and die. High levels of the salts does the same thing. Luckily living organisms have evolved methods of maintaining the right levels to keep them healthy.

I'm liking the pot I grow using a blend of ProMix HP and their organically enhanced potting soils and vegetable and herb blends. All with Myco added to to keep the bennies going. Doesn't hurt them to use good hydro nutes to give my plants the boost they need to grow faster and better. The more growing I do like that the better I understand the big picture. The few friends I have that I share my produce with always clamor for more as they are disappointed with street pot and/or what they can get from the legal producers our government has set up.

What works for one is disaster for another. Just like the strains of pot that heals my ills may do squat for the next guy even tho he may have the same problems as me. It's a real crap shoot and the main reason so many doctors are reluctant to sign off for pot here in Canada. They don't get trained for anything other that what comes from Big Pharma and just a few have the curiosity and balls to go against the tide.

What they don't seem to understand that most of what they are willing to prescribe may kill you whereas pot has never killed anyone.

OldMedUser said:

What really pisses me off is organic fundamentalists that equate hydroponic nutes to the world of really nasty chemicals like Glyphosate. The main weed killer in Roundup.

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well.. up to date many of them think the first mycorrizhae entered into the states of lemmingstonia thru Penn Station, NY

OldMedUser said:

All with Myco added to to keep the bennies going. Doesn't hurt them to use good hydro nutes to give my plants the boost they need to grow faster and better

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wrong taste tried a light (P) dose below 90ppm with the bloom part of the developers of the dutch formula (AHH). 1 year cured bud