Does War Actually Make Money?

CrackerJax · Apr 12, 2010

Why does the USA spend so much on military equipment? Because her allies DON'T. If Japan s. Korea and the EU pulled their own weight defensively (they cannot because of their socialist systems) ... the USA could wind down a great deal of hardware.

We cast a large umbrella over our "friends", and it is expensive.

Don't worry though....Obama seems intent on leaving Europe to the Russians.

Handson · Apr 12, 2010

War makes money for the people who pull the strings of the puppets who make the wars.

CrackerJax said:
Why does the USA spend so much on military equipment? Because her allies DON'T. If Japan s. Korea and the EU pulled their own weight defensively (they cannot because of their socialist systems) ... the USA could wind down a great deal of hardware.

We cast a large umbrella over our "friends", and it is expensive.

Don't worry though....Obama seems intent on leaving Europe to the Russians.

Bigger isn't better.

Didn't bush sign your forces over to the UN?

"Here come the UN army & police: the Bush administration has helped build a fledgling UN military and police force, increasing the likelihood that the U.S. will eventually subordinate itself to UN authority".

From http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Here+come+the+UN+army+&+police:+the+Bush+administration+has+helped...-a0138141268

CrackerJax · Apr 12, 2010

Bigger IS better!! Always!!

And the point IS....we wouldn't have to be so big...if others could pull thier own weight...they cannot however.

History is connected...always also. When you look at the globe and all of the US bases and military it is left over from WW3 (the cold war).

Europe is socialist and anemic...and cannot AFFORD to defend itself AND pick up everyone's tab at the same time. The USA picks up ALL of the slack.

And still....they whine. Let the Russians and vodka roll across from the east...and watch them change their tune...instantly. If they fall...guess who will be blamed?

Dat's right!! :wink:

Handson · Apr 12, 2010

CrackerJax said:
Bigger IS better!! Always!!

And the point IS....we wouldn't have to be so big...if others could pull thier own weight...they cannot however.

History is connected...always also. When you look at the globe and all of the US bases and military it is left over from WW3 (the cold war).

Europe is socialist and anemic...and cannot AFFORD to defend itself AND pick up everyone's tab at the same time. The USA picks up ALL of the slack.

And still....they whine. Let the Russians and vodka roll across from the east...and watch them change their tune...instantly. If they fall...guess who will be blamed?

Dat's right!!

I think you're quite deluded.

There was no WWIII or we'd all be dead. Your might army couldn't beat Vietnam, your troops go through far less standard training before being classed as a soldier.

Every army has bases all over the world.

JN811 · Apr 12, 2010

CrackerJax said:
No...it does not. War is always a last resort, despite what some ppl say.

Like in the Godfather...when Sollozzo kidnaps Tom Hagen.... "blood is a big expense".

Lost lives mean lost productivity and societal fragmentation. No profit there...at all.

dude.. cj..

you are soooooo wrong... War boosts economies. makes new "wartime industries" promotes patriatism and domestic spending.. y do you think the great depression ended. Not just because of Roosevelt like ppl think.. it was WW2... that being said.. Iraq and Afganistan are not "wars"

JN811 · Apr 12, 2010

Handson said:
I think you're quite deluded.

There was no WWIII or we'd all be dead. Your might army couldn't beat Vietnam, your troops go through far less standard training before being classed as a soldier.

Every army has bases all over the world.

I agree.. this world is crazy with all the nukes out their.. a push of a button and we are all dead. :-?

JN811 · Apr 12, 2010

rocksteady6 said:
I am not from the US so have no issue with Obama but wasnt it Bush that started the war anyway? There seems to be a lot of bashing of Obama at present but i would be happy as a local that he is trying to install some kind of health reform. You certainly needed a dramatic change to your current format. With respect to the war sure a small minority become wealthy but as a nation you suffer a great deal. I would have thought this obvious but there seems to be so many out there thinking the opposite.

one of the best things obama is attempting to do is get rid of all the nukes. Granted, it prob. will never happen, but hopefully he will reduce the numbers greatly..

Handson · Apr 12, 2010

JN811 said:
I agree.. this world is crazy with all the nukes out their.. a push of a button and we are all dead.

If I researched correctly, Rothschild family funder Hitler, the USA and UK during the WWII?

And to the other guy, wasn't Kennedy assassinated because he spoke out about secret societies and wanted to eliminate the federal reserve.

JN811 · Apr 12, 2010

Pipe Dream said:
Germany was a nation in poverty after the first world war because they lost and were than charged massive amounts of money as penalties. This is why the the germans were manipulated into WW2 through propaganda but someone had to finance the war. Companies that are still around today financed the holocaust companies like Ford and others.

Completely right.. Im glad someone knows there history.. WW2 made Germany even more poor and unstable. I dont know how many know this.. but if you lose a War you are penalized BILLIONS of dollars. Luckily after WWII the world was watching Germany..

JN811 · Apr 12, 2010

Handson said:
If I researched correctly, Rothschild family funder Hitler, the USA and UK during the WWII?

And to the other guy, wasn't Kennedy assassinated because he spoke out about secret societies and wanted to eliminate the federal reserve.

hmm ive never heard either of those before.. so i really cant say one way or another..

CrackerJax · Apr 12, 2010

first off... the cold war was a war. just ask the Vietnamese and the Koreans...they would be quite saddened to know you don't know that BASIC point.

JN811 said:
dude.. cj.. you are soooooo wrong... War boosts economies. makes new "wartime industries" promotes patriatism and domestic spending.. y do you think the great depression ended. Not just because of Roosevelt like ppl think.. it was WW2... that being said.. Iraq and Afganistan are not "wars"

really? tell me...what happened to the production of Europe during WW2? Germany? Vietnam...Korea? Pick a war. The ONLY reason why the USA went up was because we were not within range at that point in history. During our revolutionary war... production: Up or down? Never mind that all the production is into material that is quite useless AFTER the war. Nothing becomes obsolete faster than military hardware...it is highly inefficient....but at the time...it is demanded of society.

think it through.... the USA GOT LUCKY. WAR is NOT an economic answer. let me tell you another thing.... you had better PRAY to all that you hold holy...that Cracker is 100% correct on his one....because if not.... Obama is going to bring us all the MOTHER of all wars.

Handson said:
If I researched correctly, Rothschild family funder Hitler, the USA and UK during the WWII?

And to the other guy, wasn't Kennedy assassinated because he spoke out about secret societies and wanted to eliminate the federal reserve.

Kennedy was assassinated for crossing the mob...pure and simple. He made a deal (Cuba) and then broke it wide open...thinking he was immune from their wrath... wrong.

JN811 · Apr 12, 2010

CrackerJax said:
first off... the cold war was a war. just ask the Vietnamese and the Koreans...they would be quite saddened to know you don't know that BASIC point.

really? tell me...what happened to the production of Europe during WW2? Germany? Vietnam...Korea? Pick a war. The ONLY reason why the USA went up was because we were not within range at that point in history. During our revolutionary war... production: Up or down? Never mind that all the production is into material that is quite useless AFTER the war. Nothing becomes obsolete faster than military hardware...it is highly inefficient....but at the time...it is demanded of society.

think it through.... the USA GOT LUCKY. WAR is NOT an economic answer. let me tell you another thing.... you had better PRAY to all that you hold holy...that Cracker is 100% correct on his one....because if not.... Obama is going to bring us all the MOTHER of all wars.

Kennedy was assassinated for crossing the mob...pure and simple. He made a deal (Cuba) and then broke it wide open...thinking he was immune from their wrath... wrong.

To start, Obama will do no such thing.. I love it how hes been in office for a year and EVERYONE is already talking tons of shit... I go to a very expensive school and last week there were TONS of protesters standing outside of the entrance with signs and petitions to impeach Obama.. Some of the dumbest shit ive ever seen. Ignorance is bliss... People who make ridiculous claims like this are just plain nieve.. not smart or knowledgable.. just ignorant. I mean seriously wtf do you think obama did thats SOOOO bad thats worth impeaching him.. Bottom line is MANY Americans are ignorant...(not talking about you here cj)

Now to your other point.. How can you even bring the revolutionary war into this debate..?? Its ridiculous... The revolutionary was was back when the US HAD NO ECONOMY to boost... And yes, like I said if you read my previous statements, if you lose the war, you get penalized by all the victors... thus its bad for the losers economies but good for the victors.. Heres some reading material for you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_war_economy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_economy

IAm5toned · Apr 12, 2010

rocksteady6 said:
I have read numerous threads claiming that war drives the economy and is actually a money making scenario for the nation involved. In money making i dont mean that they do it on purpose, as this would be condemmed for obvious reasons, but i find it hard to believe that a nations government can spend so much money on the entire process and anyone can feel that its profitable. Sure certain business with thrive but in the scheme of things surely it is detrimental in the long term. Am i wrong?

the profit in war comes from the side of the victor, after the conflict.
during the conflict the nation state's manufacturing sector is geared up into wartime production. plants that typically produced 40-60 hours a week now work around the clock. sounds pretty simple but its very complicated. new technologies developed for battle are developed, later, after the war those same tech's can be geared for non military use. and also, the largest factor is the dismissal of a large portion of the military that is no longer needed after the war is over.
so in a nutshell, what happens is this:
An armies worth of highly trained and disciplined men and women suddenly find themselves in need of a job... and a geared up manufacturing sector provides those jobs. because it is such a well trained and disciplined workforce, productivity greatly increases, allowing manufacturers to reduce prices and overhead costs. this drives profits, which sooner or later will find its way into the workforce by ways of pay raises, benefits, etc etc. those same workers in turn spend more, which causes higher demand for production, which usually means overtime for the workers... which gives them more money to spend, and the cycle starts again.

prime example- the US economy after WWII for a period of 30 years or so. your still reaping the benefits of that economic boom, and most dont realize it.

yet for every winner, there is a loser. sometimes the loser can suffer so severly that it drives another conflict.
prime example-
Germany's econimc depression after WWI provided the correct political atmosphere for hitler to be able to seize power. and we all know what happened with that.

in war, there is no profit, only suffering. some suffer more than others, but the end result is always loss, in one form or the other.
war is probably mankinds biggest failure.

JN811 · Apr 12, 2010

IAm5toned said:
the profit in war comes from the side of the victor, after the conflict.
during the conflict the nation state's manufacturing sector is geared up into wartime production. plants that typically produced 40-60 hours a week now work around the clock. sounds pretty simple but its very complicated. new technologies developed for battle are developed, later, after the war those same tech's can be geared for non military use. and also, the largest factor is the dismissal of a large portion of the military that is no longer needed after the war is over.
so in a nutshell, what happens is this:
An armies worth of highly trained and disciplined men and women suddenly find themselves in need of a job... and a geared up manufacturing sector provides those jobs. because it is such a well trained and disciplined workforce, productivity greatly increases, allowing manufacturers to reduce prices and overhead costs. this drives profits, which sooner or later will find its way into the workforce by ways of pay raises, benefits, etc etc. those same workers in turn spend more, which causes higher demand for production, which usually means overtime for the workers... which gives them more money to spend, and the cycle starts again.

prime example- the US economy after WWII for a period of 30 years or so. your still reaping the benefits of that economic boom, and most dont realize it.

just as i said

CrackerJax · Apr 12, 2010

JN811 said:
To start, Obama will do no such thing.. I love it how hes been in office for a year and EVERYONE is already talking tons of shit... I go to a very expensive school and last week there were TONS of protesters standing outside of the entrance with signs and petitions to impeach Obama.. Some of the dumbest shit ive ever seen. Ignorance is bliss... People who make ridiculous claims like this are just plain nieve.. not smart or knowledgable.. just ignorant. I mean seriously wtf do you think obama did thats SOOOO bad thats worth impeaching him.. Bottom line is MANY Americans are ignorant...(not talking about you here cj)

Now to your other point.. How can you even bring the revolutionary war into this debate..?? Its ridiculous... The revolutionary was was back when the US HAD NO ECONOMY to boost... And yes, like I said if you read my previous statements, if you lose the war, you get penalized by all the victors... thus its bad for the losers economies but good for the victors.. Heres some reading material for you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_war_economy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_economy

But I am using YOUR logic.... you say war is an economic powerhouse. Correct?

Well, Obama is MESSING up the economy SO BADLY...that according to your logic.... tjhe best and most efficient way out of this dead end we are driving down...and it IS a dead end economically...just run the numbers.....so again...using your logic...Obama is going to HAVE to get us into a HUGE war to pull us out,....or the following president will.

No economy during the Rev war? you aren't serious? Why do you think we were fighting? Over $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..... so...not ridiculous.

You let me know how the economy is doing when the USA gets wrecked AT HOME. What was the productivity of NYC after 9/11..... that is STILL being felt by that state to his day.

War is only profitable in terms of stopping a genocide or world domination of others...not in $$$$

The USA was just LUCKY because of geography...and that menas NOTHING today...absolutely NOTHING.

JN811 · Apr 12, 2010

CrackerJax said:
But I am using YOUR logic.... you say war is an economic powerhouse. Correct?

Well, Obama is MESSING up the economy SO BADLY...that according to your logic.... tjhe best and most efficient way out of this dead end we are driving down...and it IS a dead end economically...just run the numbers.....so again...using your logic...Obama is going to HAVE to get us into a HUGE war to pull us out,....or the following president will.

No economy during the Rev war? you aren't serious? Why do you think we were fighting? Over $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..... so...not ridiculous.

You let me know how the economy is doing when the USA gets wrecked AT HOME. What was the productivity of NYC after 9/11..... that is STILL being felt by that state to his day.

War is only profitable in terms of stopping a genocide or world domination of others...not in $$$$

The USA was just LUCKY because of geography...and that menas NOTHING today...absolutely NOTHING.

lol not my logic ur using... The revolutionary war was about freedom... Yes, we were fighting over "no taxation without representation" but the main thing we wanted was freedom from the tyranny of British rule... The Us was JUST STARTING.. and no we didnt have an established economy. All states were individual and we were not an united country... The revolutionary war helped to unify the US.. And YES we were lucky because of our geography.. and YES the Brits could of probably won if they pushed the issue instead of dropping it.. LMFAO.. how can you bring 9/11 into this. That was terrorism.. not a war.. even so.. once again it helped unify our county (minus brown ppl).. My entire point is a WAR, not a fight, is benifitial to the victors..

I think you have my point wrong. Im not saying war is intended to help economies.. Im saying as a side effect it often does.. You are right. War should only be used when needed to stop power hungry, dangerous countries.. and the US has made plenty of mistakes, as has the rest of the world..

nice to have an intelligent debate on RIU every once in a while.. :mrgreen:

medicineman · Apr 12, 2010

War is profitable to a few, the investors in war machinery, Investors (Capitalists) always make money on war if they are on the winning side. We now have a very profitable new notion, privatized warriors and their investors. Blackwater (ZY) or whatever name they're calling themselves are making a boatload of money on our two wars, and stirring shit in other places accross the globe.. Believe this, General Electric, Boeing, Northrop, and any other war machine manufacturers live for war. That is when they rape and pillage on our tax money, (Sorry your tax money, LOL)
No bid contracts, like Halliburton, Money gone wild. Remember when we, (The USA) sent C-17s loaded with pallets of hundred dollar bills to Iraq, Billions in cash to the provincial authority. Do you suppose that money wasn't ripped on? There were crooks inventing new companies that actually did nothing but take hundreds of thousands in cash and fade into the woodwork.
Yeah, for a few, war is very profitable, I'll bet a few of the righties on here, the ones saying war is not profitable, made some cash on the current wars.

CrackerJax · Apr 12, 2010

Actually the colonies were QUITE willing to remain colonies... it was the $$$ that tipped the scale.

The only time any economy has been helped is during WW2. But don't forget that for every tank built 10 cars were NOT. Ppl were on rationing througout the entire war... it isn't efficient....only in the killing area is that true enough.

War is EXPENSIVE!!! Hasn't that been the big charge placed against BUSH?? :lol:

If your interpretation were valid...we have two wars going on right now .... we should be going like gangbusters with productivity.... but wait... it is the opposite right now.... isn't it? :wink:

ONLY if you are immune from the physical war can you come out on top... but always the price is BLOOD. WW2 cost us 500k men & women....worth it? Yes...but not for the $$$... for survival.

i also enjoy an intelligent debate on the issues. It's not often on the political threads I'm afraid...but then again.... I make sure I am correct BEFORE I post. :peace:

Handson · Apr 12, 2010

medicineman said:
War is profitable to a few, the investors in war machinery, Investors (Capitalists) always make money on war if they are on the winning side. We now have a very profitable new notion, privatized warriors and their investors. Blackwater (ZY) or whatever name they're calling themselves are making a boatload of money on our two wars, and stirring shit in other places accross the globe.. Believe this, General Electric, Boeing, Northrop, and any other war machine manufacturers live for war. That is when they rape and pillage on our tax money, (Sorry your tax money, LOL)
No bid contracts, like Halliburton, Money gone wild. Remember when we, (The USA) sent C-17s loaded with pallets of hundred dollar bills to Iraq, Billions in cash to the provincial authority. Do you suppose that money wasn't ripped on? There were crooks inventing new companies that actually did nothing but take hundreds of thousands in cash and fade into the woodwork.
Yeah, for a few, war is very profitable, I'll bet a few of the righties on here, the ones saying war is not profitable, made some cash on the current wars.

It's all set up, it's like were living in a real life movie. The rich get richer off our money, America and UK are engaged in this "war" and we are in massive debt. The capitalists dream. Their all linked. But as long as people have a nice car on their drive and a lovely plasma TV to watch the 10 clock news and pop idol on, they aren't arsed.

medicineman · Apr 12, 2010

CrackerJax said:
Actually the colonies were QUITE willing to remain colonies... it was the $$$ that tipped the scale.

The only time any economy has been helped is during WW2. But don't forget that for every tank built 10 cars were NOT. Ppl were on rationing througout the entire war... it isn't efficient....only in the killing area is that true enough.

War is EXPENSIVE!!! Hasn't that been the big charge placed against BUSH??

If your interpretation were valid...we have two wars going on right now .... we should be going like gangbusters with productivity.... but wait... it is the opposite right now.... isn't it?

ONLY if you are immune from the physical war can you come out on top... but always the price is BLOOD. WW2 cost us 500k men & women....worth it? Yes...but not for the $$$... for survival.

i also enjoy an intelligent debate on the issues. It's not often on the political threads I'm afraid...but then again.... I make sure I am correct BEFORE I post.

Intelligen debate my ass. Refute the facts I posted above. Some people make a boatload of money off of war. Why don't you discuss that? Maybe because you are invested in war and are making bank from people dying. Could this be the real reason you refuse to aknowledge that fact?

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