Does War Actually Make Money?

JN811 · Apr 12, 2010

CrackerJax said:
Actually the colonies were QUITE willing to remain colonies... it was the $$$ that tipped the scale.

The only time any economy has been helped is during WW2. But don't forget that for every tank built 10 cars were NOT. Ppl were on rationing througout the entire war... it isn't efficient....only in the killing area is that true enough.

War is EXPENSIVE!!! Hasn't that been the big charge placed against BUSH??

If your interpretation were valid...we have two wars going on right now .... we should be going like gangbusters with productivity.... but wait... it is the opposite right now.... isn't it?

ONLY if you are immune from the physical war can you come out on top... but always the price is BLOOD. WW2 cost us 500k men & women....worth it? Yes...but not for the $$$... for survival.

i also enjoy an intelligent debate on the issues. It's not often on the political threads I'm afraid...but then again.... I make sure I am correct BEFORE I post.

LOL im not incorrect.. we just have opposing ideas and thats fine. I agree.. War is terrible and Id never wish for it regardless of it effect on the economy..

Just because you believe in your opinion doesnt mean mine is wrong. Do a google seach and Im sure you find plenty of ppl agreeing with both of our stances. Really, Im POSITIVE no one on this thread knows all the factors that effect wartime economy... which is why this is a debate... :roll:

lol anyways i gtg nice debating with you cj :mrgreen:

CrackerJax · Apr 12, 2010

medicineman said:
Intelligen debate my ass. Refute the facts I posted above. Some people make a boatload of money off of war. Why don't you discuss that? Maybe because you are invested in war and are making bank from people dying. Could this be the real reason you refuse to aknowledge that fact?

That's because my very simple friend...it takes businesses to produce during a war. Not going to pay them?

During WW2... The big 3 auto makers made out like BANDITS in contracts....so did big STEEL..

Are they evil med man? I know your position already so don't bother answering.

Want to get in on the productivity? Get urself a business buddy.

In almost every case.... nations DO NOT go to war to MAKE money....there are FAR FAR FAR.... I can't stress that enough... FAR better ways to make money...and safer too.

Why did Halliburton get those contracts in Iraq?.... because they were about the only company QUALIFIED to rebuild in a WAR ZONE....

Why was Dick Cheney part of the top tier structure there before the war? Because he is/was an ACE businessman with a keen intelligence.

The axiom that "progressives" cannot stand...is that "cream rises to the top". it also happens to be quite true.

So if you are sour.... YOU are doing something wrong. wrecking the country financially is NOT a solution. Unless you just hate ur own country.

JN811 · Apr 12, 2010

ohhhh medicineman feels left out

we could always talk about those damn TEABAGGERS!!! :lol:

Anjinsan · Apr 12, 2010

War is not ultimately profitable. Unless of course you are acquiring land. Then it is wildly profitable. It is true that America became wealthy after WW2...but we are discussing war being profitable. Was it profitable for England? France? Australia? China? Korea? They were all on the winning team too in different degrees...but they did not profit. We profited because we boosted employment in production and our goods were needed to help rebuild the world. Nobody could produce as much as us or as fast as us. Workers benefited because there was more work than workers so their efforts were to be highly rewarded.

TODAY? We are out-produced, there are more workers than work...and nobody wants us to rebuild them unless we foot the bill to do so. So war for us is just pure expenditure. A bleeding of money if you will. Sure small segments such as the military complex benefits...but ultimately they are fed by American tax payer money. So we aren't really getting "ahead" even then.

Our economy is fux0r3d...far moreso than can be described easily here.

CrackerJax · Apr 12, 2010

JN811 said:
ohhhh medicineman feels left out we could always talk about those damn TEABAGGERS!!!

Notice how he hasn't come back? :wink:

His arguments are always specious and flawed.

Padawanbater2 · Apr 12, 2010

CrackerJax said:
That's because my very simple friend...it takes businesses to produce during a war. Not going to pay them?

During WW2... The big 3 auto makers made out like BANDITS in contracts....so did big STEEL..

Are they evil med man? I know your position already so don't bother answering.

Want to get in on the productivity? Get urself a business buddy.

In almost every case.... nations DO NOT go to war to MAKE money....there are FAR FAR FAR.... I can't stress that enough... FAR better ways to make money...and safer too.

Why did Halliburton get those contracts in Iraq?.... because they were about the only company QUALIFIED to rebuild in a WAR ZONE....

Why was Dick Cheney part of the top tier structure there before the war? Because he is/was an ACE businessman with a keen intelligence.

The axiom that "progressives" cannot stand...is that "cream rises to the top". it also happens to be quite true.

So if you are sour.... YOU are doing something wrong. wrecking the country financially is NOT a solution. Unless you just hate ur own country.

Wow man, so many things allude you it's pretty remarkable being the age you are...

Of course it takes business to produce the equipment we need to fight a war, that is not where the problem lies.

Are they, or is that evil? No, absolutely not, that's Capitalism, at it's finest.

The problem arises when those individuals making profits off being in a business that necessitates a perpetual state of war to keep the profits flowing influence American politicians. Influence can come in countless forms. Money, campaign donations, vacations, cars, boats, anything material. We see the scandals on the nightly news monthly.

These businessmen choose whatever form of influence suits these respective politicians vote, the politicians go on to vote according to big businesses interests (which would obviously be to keep the conflict going so the profits keep coming in) and the American peoples interests take second priority.

Watch Lord of War with Nicolas Cage to understand how this works.

Arms dealers interests are their profits, their profits are produced by selling weapons, weapons are not needed in places with no conflict, so their interest becomes creating conflict via American politicians.

And that is how big business has taken over American politics.

Class excused.

Dick Cheney is a prime example of this type of businessman.

CrackerJax · Apr 12, 2010

It's elude ... dude... not allude.

Paddy as usual in this area you are blind.

What perpetual state of war are you referring to?? :lol:

Like I stated earlier...history is connected.... we are still in the wake of the cold war.

That's why the USA is all over the globe son... get it?

The USA has always tried to be isolationist...and we got pearl harbor for that.

Now... the USA most certainly COULD defang itself militarily,..... and Obama is trying his best to do just that. You will RUE the day.... and it will come.

How about the EU and Japan take care of themselves? Hmmm? is that OUR fault they spend all their $$$ on welfare programs? Is that OUR fault they have inefficient means of production?

If "other" nations simply pulled their OWN weight.... your POINT would be MOOT.

Go ahead...tell me I'm wrong....

Padawanbater2 · Apr 12, 2010

CrackerJax said:
Paddy as usual in this area you are blind.

What perpetual state of war are you referring to??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_war

:-|

Like I stated earlier...history is connected.... we are still in the wake of the cold war.

That's why the USA is all over the globe son... get it?

It's unnecessary.

The USA has always tried to be isolationist...and we got pearl harbor for that.

I'm not advocating isolationism.

Now... the USA most certainly COULD defang itself militarily,..... and Obama is trying his best to do just that. You will RUE the day.... and it will come.

Be afraid! Very AFRAID!

These kinds of statements just make you look foolish.

How about the EU and Japan take care of themselves? Hmmm? is that OUR fault they spend all their $$$ on welfare programs? Is that OUR fault they have inefficient means of production?

Allied nations support other allied nations despite any social or economic philosophies they might subscribe to. Japan and the EU could take care of themselves just fine.

If "other" nations simply pulled their OWN weight.... your POINT would be MOOT.

Go ahead...tell me I'm wrong....

Not just wrong, dead wrong. Who asked you to be world police? Does the majority of citizens of other countries opinion about this issue mean nothing to you? The VAST MAJORITY of Iraqi citizens want us the fuck gone, ASAP. The majority of foreigners dislike the current American imperial policy that places nuclear aircraft carriers on their beaches. Do I need to start a poll to prove that to you?

It seems like you're saying "well I know what's best for other countries better than they do" - which uhh... coincidentally isn't that far off from every administration going back 80 years' stance... :wall:

medicineman · Apr 12, 2010

CrackerJax said:
Notice how he hasn't come back?

His arguments are always specious and flawed.

I didn't say America makes money on war, It costs big bucks to make war, your tax dollars at work. I said, some businessmen make a boatload on war, better known as war profiteers. You exult Cheney? He is the worst of the worst. First as secretary of defense, he privatizes military support, then goes to work for Haliburton, wow any collusion there? Then as Vice president, he allows no bid contracts to, Guess who, Halliburton. Yeah, that Dick was a hell of a guy, Corrupt Capitalism at it's finest. BTW, I have a life outside of RIU, amazing I know. Soooooooo, Maybe I'm not available to confront your stupid theories, I'd hope there would be more like me to carry the liberal banner, but alas, RIU is a right wing Bastion of phony losers, yeah I said it, phony losers, so belly up to the bar gents, and spew your evil crap, Cheney as the exalted one. I've heard it all now, pshawwwww.

RickWhite · Apr 12, 2010

Years ago, when war required a massive effort it did create enough demand to stimulate the economy. This isn't the case today.

What we see now are people who want to be on the PC side and are too intellectually lazy to learn the facts so they come up with childish conspiracy theories about how people are secretly becoming wealthy from war and that is why it occurs.

For instance, if we were interested in cheap oil, we would have stood behind Saddam and bought his oil like we do with the Saudis. We would have paid far less than the war cost. But people who make such claims have little use for facts. It is easier to make up some conspiracy about Cheny and Haliburton than to seek any actual knowledge. And talking that crap sounds cool and rebellious to young kids. The reality is boring.

SativaSam13365 · Apr 12, 2010

Absolutely........................

medicineman · Apr 12, 2010

RickWhite said:
Years ago, when war required a massive effort it did create enough demand to stimulate the economy. This isn't the case today.

What we see now are people who want to be on the PC side and are too intellectually lazy to learn the facts so they come up with childish conspiracy theories about how people are secretly becoming wealthy from war and that is why it occurs.

For instance, if we were interested in cheap oil, we would have stood behind Saddam and bought his oil like we do with the Saudis. We would have paid far less than the war cost. But people who make such claims have little use for facts. It is easier to make up some conspiracy about Cheny and Haliburton than to seek any actual knowledge. And talking that crap sounds cool and rebellious to young kids. The reality is boring.

So you are actually so ignorant of facts to assume there was no collusion between Cheney and Halliburton, My oh My, And you run a company. what do you make, happy faces for McDonalds? Conspiracy proved I'd say.

RickWhite · Apr 12, 2010

medicineman said:
So you are actually so ignorant of facts to assume there was no collusion between Cheney and Halliburton, My oh My, And you run a company. what do you make, happy faces for McDonalds? Conspiracy proved I'd say.

Actually, Cheney cut all ties with Halliburton before the war. Do you have any actual evidence that shows this collusion? Of course you don't.

Be honest, we all know you are just a bitter demagogue who hates our country because you want to blame others for your own misery.

Halliburton is the only company that can do what they do, that is why they are over there. All this conspiracy nonsense is just fodder for the stupid.

Padawanbater2 · Apr 12, 2010

What we see now are people who want to be on the PC side and are too intellectually lazy to learn the facts so they come up with childish conspiracy theories about how people are secretly becoming wealthy from war and that is why it occurs.

When did I say it was a secret? It's quite obviously not a secret. Just because you refuse to believe this is how it works and think that every buck made is honest doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Take a guess where the diamond from that diamond ring you're probably wearing right now came from... That's the Capitalism you praise and the problems within the Capitalist system I oppose. What's wrong with pointing out the problems?

For instance, if we were interested in cheap oil, we would have stood behind Saddam and bought his oil like we do with the Saudis. We would have paid far less than the war cost. But people who make such claims have little use for facts. It is easier to make up some conspiracy about Cheny and Haliburton than to seek any actual knowledge. And talking that crap sounds cool and rebellious to young kids. The reality is boring.

Big business didn't pay a cent in profits to finance the war. The taxpayers did. Buy the oil the legit way and you buy it yourself, make the American people think the boogie man is out to get them and they'll finance the war for you.

Seems pretty simple to me...

Padawanbater2 · Apr 12, 2010

RickWhite said:
Actually, Cheney cut all ties with Halliburton before the war. Do you have any actual evidence that shows this collusion? Of course you don't.

Be honest, we all know you are just a bitter demagogue who hates our country because you want to blame others for your own misery.

Halliburton is the only company that can do what they do, that is why they are over there. All this conspiracy nonsense is just fodder for the stupid.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Cheneys_stock_options_rose_3281_last_1011.html

Cheney told "Meet the Press" in 2003 that he didn't have any financial ties to the firm.

Since I left Halliburton to become George Bush's vice president, I've severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interest," the Vice President said. "I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had, now, for over three years.

Cheney continues to received a deferred salary from the company. According to financial disclosure forms, he was paid $205,298 in 2001; $262,392 in 2002; $278,437 in 2003; and $294,852 in 2004.

http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/about_hal/chronology.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton#Involvement_in_the_Iraq_war

As of 2004, he had received $398,548 in deferred compensation from Halliburton while Vice President.

And all that took was a 10 second google search... For someone claiming to be so smart... you're not so smart Rick. :eyesmoke:

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 · Apr 12, 2010

Arthink it through.... the USA GOT LUCKY. WAR is NOT an economic answer. let me tell you another thing.... you had better PRAY to all that you hold holy...that Cracker is 100% correct on his one....because if not.... Obama is going to bring us all the MOTHER of all wars.

you the Atheist of all Atheist's??? or just trying to make people feel small if they don't agreee? The Bush Family was and is still a huge problem in the USA!! Change is here love it or Leave it! Your backward way's will no longer be tolerated!!!

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 · Apr 12, 2010

To The OP...Yes,,, War Makes money for the unfortunate families that pay's the ultimate cost,,, LIFE,,in the name of freedom.....come on Repukes how much of a Budget??? and who is in charge,,,becacuse we have domestic issues in need of dire Solutions,,,much more important now than your greed, hate and phrofits :fire:

artwallis · Apr 12, 2010

Ok... Here it is:

When I was in Iraq, KBR Haliburton was everywhere. Best of all, they were doing jobs that soldiers used to do. The Army no longer has any Cooks or Barbers (did you know that?) All independent contractors like Haliburton. Strangely, all of our electronic work, our bus driving, our laundry, and many other menial tasks were done by independent contractors. KBR even had their own medics! Another job outsourced!

Here's the rub:

Army Electrical Technician: 30,000-40,000 a year.

Haliburton Electrical Technician: 100,000-120,000 a year.

Army Bus driver (MOS 88M): 30,000-40,000 a year.

Haliburton Bus Driver: 80,000-100,000 a year.

You see? Get the picture? Army Occupations in the Bush administration were slowly (or quickly in some cases) replaced all together. Why? To save money? No! It cost MORE money to hire the Civilian contractors. Fucked up, huh? Really fucked up thing was this: Those Blackwater guys were doing Army Special forces work. I never would have thought that COMBAT would have been privately contracted, support roles maybe, but COMBAT?!

So, what does it all mean? It means that yes, WAR is good for the economy. It puts taxpayer money right back into the hands of private business, thus spurring economic development. Of course, we could just GIVE that money to schools and health care, which would actually be better for the economy than spending on defense, but there you go. So is it a conspiracy? No, it's pretty out in the open actually. I saw it every day with those KBR guys and their kushy jobs.

Mr.blazed · Apr 12, 2010

well it depends on "who" it profits. It doesnt profit everyone as a whole or "us", but it does profit certain individuals and ironically most of them are the ones calling the shots and controlling the conflict. Weird.

CrackerJax · Apr 12, 2010

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 said:
Arthink it through.... the USA GOT LUCKY. WAR is NOT an economic answer. let me tell you another thing.... you had better PRAY to all that you hold holy...that Cracker is 100% correct on his one....because if not.... Obama is going to bring us all the MOTHER of all wars.

you the Atheist of all Atheist's??? or just trying to make people feel small if they don't agreee? The Bush Family was and is still a huge problem in the USA!! Change is here love it or Leave it! Your backward way's will no longer be tolerated!!!

hahah... you know what I mean.... I just talk statistically... most ppl pray...don't ask me why...but they do.

Does War Actually Make Money?

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