Do NOT vote against I-502... hear me out.

"If it ain't broken....." The only good thing that can come out of this Bill is forcing the gov't to address the topic on a national level. Unfortunately that can also be a bad thing. Our gov't has a history of silencing those who push them. What if, by forcing their hand, they take away medical too, and we are all fucked? This could potentially retard the movement by a decade or two.

"Give you an inch and you take a mile"

what are your concerns about the new law in washington allowing blood to be taken from any suspected DUI stops at officers discretion of course, we all know we can trust the police to not abuse there privilages . . .

SinisterBuds said:

I agree 100% Colonuggs. Its NOT legalization when they tell you, you CANT do something.

F**k I-502 when they tell me I cant grow a plant that helps my dad walk without pain, and F**k I-502 when they wanna charge $300-400/ounce to help him get out of bed.

There's an even better chance that the "store fronts" wont come to existance because Washington state wont put their state employees into a position that violates Federal Law.

coolkid.02...people will still be going to jail if they didnt buy their pot from the state run stores, because the likelyhood of them being open is slim. So that bag you got from your buddy...The one who is growing a plant illegally, is still gonna be illegal...Not because its pot, but because you didnt give your money to the state.

And soburntoutman...driving under the influence is irresponsible...no matter what the substance. If you're drozy because of a Benadryl, you can still kill somebody when you fall asleep at the wheel.

"Driving under the influence of any level of cannabis is illegal NOW, this makes it more legal." So you're alright with irresponsible behavior being more legal, even though its still dangerous and irresponsible? Like those ads for "Buzzed Driving" say...You can still kill somebody when you're buzzed. 5ng/l is a ridiculously low amount, and most heavy smokers will have that much THC in their system for a month after they last smoked. But focusing on the DUI aspect of I-502 because it'll give people a way to get out of a ticket for irresponsible behavior is just wrong.

I-502 is a way for the state to squeeze out money from its citizens, and its money they will never see...Because marijuana is still a Schedule 1 drug, and profiting from the sale of that substance is illegal on a federal level. I-502 is a lose lose for everybody...But especially the people who need medical marijuana the most.

Vote NO on I-502

Click to expand...

thats exactly right, vote No, I-502 is a crooked way to let the state have all the authority and power without any guarantee that they will allow us to buy "from the state" this Bill puts an end to DP and MMJ patients relationship, which is working avg price here in Washington for fire is around 200 or less, seems to be working for us ,

if the general public wants to smoke, they better get a real BILL together and allow the people that have been supplying them with MJ since they began smoking can continue to make a living as well as help the medical community,

my patients get it for free for the most part, they will not be able to afford my grade of fire if 502 passes they and there families are voting NO as well

So lets say I-502 gets passed in the state of Washington. What are the Feds going to do? Just let it be? California has not even legalized it and the Feds are cracking down hard. Washington state has been flying low on the radar because of our relatively low key laws. If it does pass we will have more federal attention brought to our state because of our flamboyancy. Not only that but most of the cannabis market will be driven underground because of the taxation. Read the bill. It has so many holes in it. I do agree with you to some degree about the DUI limit already existing. But what do you think will happen when the government refuses to acknowledge this issue and continues to fight it.

With alcohol prohibition there was a definite case against it. Death rates as well as crime rates exploded. With cannabis there are no reasons it should be illegal and the government knows this. The reason they continue to fight this unbeatable war on cannabis is so they don't appear weak. There are so many reasons why we need to legalize and there is no reason why it is still a schedule one drug.

So we pass I-502 and either get busted by the feds or drive cannabis underground again and have to start over. I'm cool with either outcome. I just wish people read the actual proposition to see how shadily it has been written. If it does get legalized I will be the first to get a state license.

Cannikid said:

So lets say I-502 gets passed in the state of Washington. ............. If it does get legalized I will be the first to get a state license.

Click to expand...

oh ya like they re gonna just give em out, governor already said no state employees will be allowed to work for anything to do with MJ or MMJ so how is it the state is gonna "sell pot" or hand out license that will eventually allow you to buy pot

and with the new DUI law that allows LEO to take blood samples, 5ng is a guaranteed charge to any, driver who appears to be under the influenced of anything if you smoke get suspected of drinking then be forced to blood sample to prove not drunk and bam POT DUI

, i have 3 DUI's so i know how they role, and ya im a idiot too(in my own defense all were under .10 and i weight 250 not 180 . . . ), but they will bust anyone and everyone, if they can they will

I 502 is a trap, and no one should be settleing for this, CA, Colorado will pave the way for the right or wrong kind of legalization and then we can make our laws but until then, its the best we got mentality, while screwing over real patients is disgusting, screw the guy with intractable pain or seizures becuase some kids are abusing the system and other kids dont wnat to and just want to smoke whatever the state decides to "not sell" as they will not go against federal laws and have already proved it with the horrible bill last year, screwing everyone

as of Aug. 1, 2012....Washington State hwy patrol officers can make you give up your blood for DUI testing.......Forcably if nessary.....you have no choice in the matter.

Now this will also transfer over to MJ DUI testing.....They will be sittiting waiting for all you people who want to go to the State stactioned marijuana outlets.....

The DUI section of I-502 is non sceintific and proves nothing about a persons ablity to drive......

You should not be able to get a DUI 2-3 days after you injest marijuana...but a heavy user will

if you smoke a bong hit in the morning.... later that evening... you would still get a DUI if tested...BULLSHIT

colonuggs said:

as of Aug. 1, 2012....Washington State hwy patrol officers can make you give up your blood for DUI testing.......Forcably if nessary.....you have no choice in the matter.

Now this will also transfer over to MJ DUI testing.....They will be sittiting waiting for all you people who want to go to the State stactioned marijuana outlets.....

The DUI section of I-502 is non sceintific and proves nothing about a persons ablity to drive......

You should not be able to get a DUI 2-3 days after you injest marijuana...but a heavy user will

if you smoke a bong hit in the morning.... later that evening... you would still get a DUI if tested...BULLSHIT

Click to expand...

yup, pretty much BS

spread the word folks, I 502 has to go down or it just gives the cops another reason to book you for DUI, my last DUI cost 25K total, to many different services including the courts and state licensed treatment facilities

"An interesting piece from Toke of the Town. Something to think about while at Hempfest this year...

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2012/08/heres_a_look_at_hempfest_2013_if_i-502_passes_in_w.php

Here's A Look At Hempfest 2013 If I-502 Passes In Washington
By Steve Elliott ~alapoet~ in Culture, Products
Monday, August 13, 2012 at 8:49 pm









A Hempfest marred by dozens of busts for people just passing the joint at 4:20? Say it ain't so!

It could happen if I-502 passes and is enforced as written.


But you'd think Seattle Hempfest would be heaven on Earth after the passage of "legalization" Initiative 502 in Washington state, if all the information you had to go by was a Marc Emery quote -- posted by trophy wife Jodie -- on Facebook today.

"Next year at Seattle Hempfest, if I-502 passes, everyone will be able to carry an ounce of marijuana around on their person and not be concerned with arrest!" Emery wrote from prison. "Or losing their job! Or losing custody of their children. Or violating probation. Or getting a criminal record.



"Tourists and residents of Washington state would be afforded the greatest legal protection available to any marijuana user in the whole world," Emery claimed. "After I-502, visitors and residents in Washington State will have more legal right to possess and smoke marijuana than any American or Dutch resident has in Holland!"


Quite a rosy picture, that.


Too bad it has -- like most of what either Emery has to say these days -- vanishingly little to do with reality.


Let's take a look.


What if I-502 passes and is enforced -- AS WRITTEN -- at Hempfest 2013?


Well, as far as carrying around an ounce of marijuana and not being concerned with arrest? Unless you bought that ounce at a state-licensed store, you'd still get busted.


If you took Emery at his word and happily passed what you believed to be that gloriously legal joint to your buddy -- after all, Marc Emery said it was OK! -- then you'd get your ass busted for "distribution."


If that bag in your pocket contained a crumb over 40 grams -- not that unusual for some of us -- you could be busted for felony possession.


Doesn't sound very, er, legal anymore, now does it?


Oh, if you somehow avoid being thrown in the slammer for any of the other new crimes 502 will put on the books -- God help you if you accidentally pass the joint to a minor, by the way -- you'd better hope some redneck cop with an attitude about stoners doesn't pull you over on the way home.


Or worse yet, sit there waiting to shoot hippie fish in a barrel as they leave Hempfest, just pulling 'em over as they leave, and ordering blood tests. Easy as pie!


Because if you show up over 5 ng/ml -- which, by the way, is an arbitrary and totally unscientific cutoff point for DUI, with no meaningful studies backing it up -- you're gonna pull a DUI charge that will make you homesick for the good ol' days of simple possession. It's gonna be a lot more expensive than that possession charge woulda been, too.


Does that sound like a fun Hempfest to you?


Vote for I-502, and if they actually enforce the damned thing, that's what you'll have to look forward to, next year!




Side Note To Marc and Jodie


Marc Emery, you are a deeply clueless tool. You either have NO IDEA what you are talking about, or you have sold out to law enforcement (not surprising, since they have you in a cage).


Actual patients and activists here in Washington OPPOSE I-502, because it is an execrably bad piece of legislation.


Unscientific DUI limits -- pandering to public fears rather than educating the public? REALLY?


No home cultivation... REALLY?


Only one ounce -- with 40 grams and above still a felony ... REALLY???


CONGRATS, Marc Emery -- you just became irrelevant to the cannabis movement in Washington State!


Anybody who wants to know what's going on in Washington, speak with people in Washington, NOT some clueless, arrogant Canadian prisoner in Mississippi.


I-502 sets a horrible precedent. If its execrable DUI provisions and ban on home growing become law here, future states will model their legislation upon it!


It's important to support credible legalization efforts wherever they're occurring -- for example, this November, both Oregon and Colorado will have measures on the ballot which don't include a dumb-ass DUI provision. By all means, vote for them.


But don't be fooled by this piece of garbage."

id link but another site, not competing

Thanks for the great post Samwell... very informative...

coolkid.02 said:

We all know how easy it is to get a Authorization however not everyone has the time, energy, money, space, and love to devote to maintaining a garden...

Click to expand...

It allows for possession of up to 24 ounces as well. Medical authorizations aren't only for growers.

coolkid.02 said:

also, Provision Part III establishes a license system for marijuana producers, processors and retailers. Initial licenses shall be $250 with an annual renewal fee of $1000. So pretty sure there will be an avenue for those farmers to sell to a much larger customer base....

Click to expand...

you see the part about the 25% tax from producer to processor .....then the 25 % tax from processor to retailer...then the 25% tax to us plus the current 10%sales tax??

so whats the cost of a oz to the customer.... when the producer wants $150 a oz

150 + 37.50= 187.50 to the processor

187 + 46.88= 234.38 to the retailer

234 + 82.03= 316.41 to consumer

now add on a little profit for each....shit ozs will have to cost $50-100 from the producer.

I dont know too many growers getting or willing to sell Topshelf for $400 QP

I just cannot think of one good thing to say about I-502. Things are pretty good the way they are now.

Initiative 502 in no way changes our state’s current medical cannabis policy.

However, unlike even Arizona and Rhode Island (who both have legal exclusions to their per se DUID policy for medical cannabis patients), Initiative 502 makes Washington State one of the only states in the country that have a per se DUID policy for cannabis without an exception for patients.

Nevada is one of these other states, and the year after they instituted a per se limit for cannabis, there was a 76% increase in cannabis DUIs.

I would like to say that through this thread, and speaking with others I will be now voting against 502...

However, I still think that it 502 is a good step.... but I am willing to wait for something better...

coolkid.02 said:

I would like to say that through this thread, and speaking with others I will be now voting against 502...

However, I still think that it 502 is a good step.... but I am willing to wait for something better...

Click to expand...

Already in the works ...Bill I-514

coolkid.02 said:

I would like to say that through this thread, and speaking with others I will be now voting against 502...

However, I still think that it 502 is a good step.... but I am willing to wait for something better...

Click to expand...

Glad you were able to see the light, coolkid.02....As colonuggs said, I-514 is better for WA State than I-502...Now we just gotta get all of the other voters in the state to realize this.

I am happy to see a legalization initiative on the ballot, despite the fact I personally will not be voting for it as is. But I feel no personal grow rights: no deal. I am not saying mass growing and especially no sales, but to legislate the growth of a plant is difficult, tedious and expensive. For example I can grow my own tobacco, dry and cure it then roll it up in a cigarette without paying a dollar to the "man". Because our forefather's set precedent that as a consumer plant the consumer can grow it but to make money off growing it without paying taxes is a whole different matter entirely. Another cousin precedent in example is I believe the 13th amendment (not sure on the number) that allows within federal law (some states do not allow this but federally it is legal check local state law if ya get curious for non washington viewers.) for one to make beer and wine for your own consumption, provided you are not selling it.

Regulation is necessary but bottom line over regulation is unproductive, and furthermore being allowed to possess and purchase but not grow is rather unfair and done in the spirit of greed and economic desperation. Especially something that is anything like a food bearing plant is the right of all mankind to propagate for ones one well being. One of the principles of agriculture nature gave it to me it use useful I or anybody else can grow more of it. (In my opinion.) And furthermore Cannabis is a food bearing plant, hemp seeds make gruel. Horrible bitter stuff but has everything ya need to live.

id take a fair DUI clause if those imprisoned by the previous laws were exonerated

I-502 is the biggest crock of shit ever!!! I like the idea of the pricing. 12/g is not bad, but the 25% mark up for cannabis tax, plus the additional 10% sales tax is ridiculous. So for that $12 gram, you are now paying $16.20. Thats what I call bullshit! I'm sure all the people who can't qualify for a card will vote yes, out of pure ignorance. Smh. No on 502, bitches!!!

heres is apoint of view from another washington patient
"
I-502 calls for the state to regulate the production, processing and sale of pot...

I-502 calls for the state to regulate the production, processing and sale of marijuana – and collect taxes on it – through the state Liquor Control Board...


Suppose voters decided that they’ve had it with federal drug rules that make marijuana an illegal substance akin to heroin or cocaine, and they change Washington state law to make marijuana legal.

Not in all instances, not for everyone, not at any time. But for adults, in regulated quantities, for limited uses.
While that might be a fair shorthand description of what Initiative 502 proposes this November, this isn’t just a hypothetical scenario about the future. It’s also a description of the past. In 1998, Washington voters “legalized” marijuana for medical uses, even though the federal government said at the time, and still does, the drug belongs on the list of controlled substances that have no legal medical use.

Fourteen years later, state officials still struggle with developing a system to regulate medical marijuana production and sale, while the U.S. Justice Department continues to prosecute “dispensaries” under federal drug trafficking statutes for selling pot to state-approved medicinal smokers unwilling or unable to grow it for themselves.

Supporters of I-502 – which would allow for the possession and consumption of small amounts of marijuana by adults but keep it illegal for minors and anyone operating a vehicle – say it will free local law enforcement and state courts from the cost of marijuana enforcement. The prosecution, defense, court and jail costs of those cases cost Washington governments more than $200 million between 2000 and 2010, the American Civil Liberties Union of Washington recently estimated.
Spokane City Council President Ben Stuckart said the chance to lighten the load on local police and avoid filling local courts and jails makes I-502 a good choice. While there’s no guarantee what federal drug agents and prosecutors will do, the chance to begin discussions also would be a plus, he said.

“If nobody acts, nothing’s going to happen,” he said.
I-502 won’t stop federal officials from enforcing the law, most concede. But it will spark discussions on how to shift from individual users to large criminal organizations bringing drugs across state and national borders, said Pete Holmes, the Seattle city attorney and a supporter of the initiative.

“It would take a great deal of hubris to just brush it aside,” Holmes said.
The state’s federal prosecutors won’t even talk about what they would do if voters approve I-502.
“We’re not making plans right now,” said Mike Ormsby, U.S. attorney for Eastern Washington, adding he’s had no discussions with supporters of the initiative and “I don’t intend to have any.”
Jenny Durkan, U.S. attorney for Western Washington, hasn’t had any official discussions on what actions federal law enforcement would take if the ballot measure passes, a spokeswoman said. “We are prohibited from commenting on Initiative 502,” Emily Langlie said. “It’s possible, between now and the election, the Department of Justice will provide further instructions.”

Last year, Ormsby warned dispensaries in Spokane that they faced federal prosecution if they didn’t shut down. A letter from Ormsby and Durkan to Gov. Chris Gregoire prompted the governor to essentially gut a bill that legislators had hammered out to regulate the production and sale of medical marijuana, which was called for in the 1998 ballot measure.

“Growing, distributing and possessing marijuana in any capacity, other than as part of a federally authorized research program, is a violation of federal law regardless of state laws permitting such activities,” they wrote in April 2011.

I-502 calls for the state to regulate the production, processing and sale of marijuana – and collect taxes on it – through the state Liquor Control Board.

Holmes believes the passage of I-502 could actually ease the federal pressure on medical marijuana dispensaries. It was the proliferation of those facilities and readily available “prescriptions” that helped spur the federal crackdown, he said.
“There are a lot of sham users of medical marijuana,” he said. “The number of dispensaries you see is quite a bit beyond what’s needed for medical marijuana.”

I-502 would likely preclude the need for dispensaries because medical patients could find the drug relatively easily, he added.

State Attorney General Rob McKenna, who is running for governor this fall on the same ballot as I-502, said passage of the measure will create “a serious conflict between state law and federal law.” If state and local officials don’t prosecute marijuana cases, federal prosecutors likely will, he said.
“It’s not a state’s rights issue,” McKenna said: It’s an issue where federal law rules under the Constitution’s supremacy clause.

Like his Democratic opponent for governor, Jay Inslee, Republican McKenna opposes I-502. If the measure passes, one or the other would be faced with dealing with the fallout, although neither has specific plans.
Inslee’s campaign said simply that he would “work with legislators and stakeholders to implement the new law.”

McKenna said he believes the initiative will fail, so he won’t deal with a hypothetical like how he would deal with the U.S. Justice Department. “I don’t want to comment on what could happen on a law that won’t pass.”

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...umps-state-on/

posters comments I noted in bold the parts that need to be seriously considered.

Again I ask, where is all this marijuana going to come from?

I think there is a plan for commercial controlled RJ Reynolds type growhouses...


NO on 502

---------------------------------------------

Of course some of our members think that setting the bar for LEO won't affect arrest levels, because "Your already held accountable if caught driving impaired, how would that change"?

Well.......

Medical marijuana, prescriptions boost number of drug DUIs in Mesa


Mesa police are arresting more drivers for drug impairment, saying prescription drug abuse and Arizona’s medical marijuana law are contributing to the problem.

Drug DUIs now make up a majority of impaired driving arrests in Mesa for the first time. The number of drug-impaired drivers has grown for years but it has spiked more recently, said Mesa Sgt. David Miecke. Fifty-two percent of DUIs issued last year in the city were for drugs, he said.

“For us to think that there’s more people out there driving on drugs than alcohol is startling,” Miecke said. “It’s harder to detect a drug-impaired person than an alcohol-impaired person.”

Marijuana impairment has grown over time, he said. But it accelerated as Arizona was debating the 2010 ballot measure that legalized medical marijuana, and boomed after its success, he said.

Police saw a big increase in drug impairment during a DUI task force that spanned December, he said. Fifty-six percent of DUIs during the holidays were for drugs in 2011, compared with just 16 percent in 2002.

Arizona’s medical marijuana law doesn’t exempt users from DUIs, and police can arrest drivers for the slightest degree of impairment for alcohol, prescription drugs and illegal substances. An increasing number of drivers flaunt the law, Miecke said.
“They’re pretty confident that just because they have that card, that they can be smoking at will and through their daily lives,” he said. “They seem to think that’s OK, they can do whatever they want.”

Marijuana can impair driving for a day or more after use, he said.

The drug-impaired drivers have ranged from teenagers to people in their 70s. Miecke said the death of Whitney Houston, whose substance abuse problem may have contributed to her passing, shows how widespread prescription drug abuse has become.
“It touches everybody, across all ages, all economic statuses and races,” he said. “People are using more prescription medications and it’s very easy to abuse them and easy to obtain them, even if you don’t have a prescription.”
Miecke expects marijuana-impaired drivers will become even more common as dispensaries open, which is expected over the summer.

Drug-impaired drivers exhibit the same behaviors on the road as drunk drivers, including delayed response time. Detecting alcohol use is easy and inexpensive with a breath test, but there’s no equivalent for drugs.
Portable machines cost thousands of dollars, and each test is expensive. Most police take a suspect’s blood and have it tested in a lab, but Miecke said a backlog in Arizona can make police wait up to a year for results. Mesa recently started its own lab to get results within a month or two.

Police have responded to the increase in drug use with improved training so they are better at detecting impairment and documenting it for prosecution.

“To think that we’re not doing something about it or to think you might be able to get away with it, that’s a fallacy,” Miecke said. “Seventeen hundred went away to jail last year here in Mesa for DUI drugs.”


http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/loc...871e3ce6c.html

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time to show your vote people "