Do NOT vote against I-502... hear me out.

To all who have read the initiative, and been disappointed with DUI provisions, know that law enforcement still must bide by probable cause. A LEO can not force a marijuana test upon you without probable cause (NOT reasonable suspicion). To have probable cause that you are committing DUI; your vehicle must reek of weed (however that alone could not convict you), you must be visually impaired, or you must be noticeably driving recklessly or poorly. Be aware, the provisions explicitly exclude testing for the presence of marijuana metabolites, in pursuit of gathering evidence for a DUI charge. Furthermore, I am confident it would be very hard to convict a marijuana user of a DUI, even if you were guilty and high as a kite, there is little evidence marijuana impairs driving ability. A DUI charge should be able to be easily defeated, by a competent attorney, if you invest in your legal defense. If you are a legitimate serious chronic medical patient, you could easily mount a defense that you will ALWAYS have more than 5ng/l in your system. For you to actually get charged with a DUI the arresting officer would have to be corrupt and intentionally trying to cause you harm, and a corrupt police officer doesn't need this DUI provision to harass you, he has many tools in his belt.

This initiative is an important first step, even if it is badly structured. Many people are blowing the DUI provision out of proportion, claiming this was intentionally placed in the bill as way to harass marijuana users. If a LEO wanted to harass you, he would regardless. I hope no one on this forum votes No, as I fear public outrage is waning with the constant onslaught of bad press the medical community seems to be getting.

Let me hear what you think, do I have too much faith in the legislature? I just don't see this provision as being all that bad, I see it as being unenforceable.
Be realistic, it is unlikely we are going to get a perfect piece of legislature, this one ain't that bad, I say we take it.

This provision doesn't change anything, you can get charged with DUI tomorrow if an officer notices you're visibly high. This provision introduces no new law, driving under the influence of cannabis is already illegal, but it does shed more spotlight on the issue and therefore increase police awareness.
http://www.washingtondui.com/seattle-marijuana-dui-lawyer/wa-drug-dui-attorney

by the way, the latest poll (June 19) shows 50% support, 37% oppose.. every vote counts guys.

Please read: NORML's Official Reply to 'Patients Against I-502'
http://blog.norml.org/2012/02/24/normls-official-reply-to-patients-against-i-502/

We would urge those who support marijuana legalization, but oppose specific provision of I-502, to nonetheless support this initiative because of the importance of 1.) having one state actually approve legalization and confront the federal government on this issue, and 2.) stopping thousands of expensive and damaging arrests, prosecutions and incarcerations annually in WA for cannabis-related offenses, notably for simple possession.

For those who feel they cannot support the current initiative, because it is not perfect, we would hope they would step aside and take no public position, in order not to undermine what is an historic opportunity to end marijuana prohibition, by popular vote, under state law.

Why would you think that this is a good thing? The lesser of two evils???? Bullshi*!!!!! We all know that when a bill comes to pass, it is loaded with "earmarks" that have NOTHING to do with the bill in the first place. It's just layers and layers of crap. It up to interpretation as to who is going to benefit, how it's going to be implemented, if they are going to enforce it etc etc....I am not confident of how this would be handled by our states and local government, how can YOU be confident in it? I live in a country that doesn't approve of it, I live in a state that did approved medical marijuana but I live in a city that has a ban on any new medical marijuana businesses. Go figure! The law needs to be clear and simple and NOT open to interpretation by some ego maniac attorney general or mayor.

When did I say this way a good thing? I think it's absolutely idiotic. The initiative is NOT full of earmarks, how about you read it? I am saying it would be nearly impossible for any court to convict you of a DUI, and furthermore for you to be so stoned you actually get pulled over for your shit driving, you shouldn't be on the road.

Even if I'm wrong, this changes nothing. Driving under the influence of any level of cannabis is illegal NOW, this makes it more legal.

My body may not testify against me without my permission. I'm pretty sure the Founding Fathers would consider per se DUI laws as outlandish and illegal as making their hemp crops a felony. Its bad enough when the politicians give us bad laws, inexcusable when we initiative in our own for the purposes of corporate special interests.

All 502 gives you is the "freedom" to buy an ounce of cannabis from the State. This is not liberty, but it IS idiotic.

Only in 2012 do people think their freedom looks like a law that lets you acquire something from, or with the permission of, the State.

The benefits of this Initiative far out-weigh the negatives in my opinion. Vote Yes!

This is clearly a personal decision everyone must make.

However, I wish to see less people going to jail for marijuana...this will certainly drastically decrease that number.

No it wont...Why would anyone vote YES for something that only monoplizes weed sales and distribution... only the State will profit from this

If you can NOT grow marijuana in the privacy of your own home LEGALLY without penalty...then its NOT legalization...PERIOD

VOTE YES ON I - 514.

So to recap I-502 ....WE are legalizing marijuana...you can buy only it from us .... dont you grow it yourself and try to cut us out.... thats illegal

If I relied on others for my marijuana I would have spent $100s of 1000s over the past 25 yrs....... insted I have saved that

I agree 100% Colonuggs. Its NOT legalization when they tell you, you CANT do something.

F**k I-502 when they tell me I cant grow a plant that helps my dad walk without pain, and F**k I-502 when they wanna charge $300-400/ounce to help him get out of bed.

There's an even better chance that the "store fronts" wont come to existance because Washington state wont put their state employees into a position that violates Federal Law.

coolkid.02...people will still be going to jail if they didnt buy their pot from the state run stores, because the likelyhood of them being open is slim. So that bag you got from your buddy...The one who is growing a plant illegally, is still gonna be illegal...Not because its pot, but because you didnt give your money to the state.

And soburntoutman...driving under the influence is irresponsible...no matter what the substance. If you're drozy because of a Benadryl, you can still kill somebody when you fall asleep at the wheel.

"Driving under the influence of any level of cannabis is illegal NOW, this makes it more legal." So you're alright with irresponsible behavior being more legal, even though its still dangerous and irresponsible? Like those ads for "Buzzed Driving" say...You can still kill somebody when you're buzzed. 5ng/l is a ridiculously low amount, and most heavy smokers will have that much THC in their system for a month after they last smoked. But focusing on the DUI aspect of I-502 because it'll give people a way to get out of a ticket for irresponsible behavior is just wrong.

I-502 is a way for the state to squeeze out money from its citizens, and its money they will never see...Because marijuana is still a Schedule 1 drug, and profiting from the sale of that substance is illegal on a federal level. I-502 is a lose lose for everybody...But especially the people who need medical marijuana the most.

Vote NO on I-502

coolkid.02 said:

The benefits of this Initiative far out-weigh the negatives in my opinion. Vote Yes!

This is clearly a personal decision everyone must make.

However, I wish to see less people going to jail for marijuana...this will certainly drastically decrease that number.

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Its people like you who are gonna get this passed, don't be stupid, tell everyone you know NO on 502, you are wrong in your position if you care about your "freedom"

WaxxyNuggets said:

Its people like you who are gonna get this passed, don't be stupid, tell everyone you know NO on 502, you are wrong in your position if you care about your "freedom"

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It's a difference of opinion.

Keep it classy

There is no such thing as true "freedom"

I will admit this is not a very good bill for those of us with Authorizations

However, if you are not Authorized in this state I see no pitfall...

coolkid.02 said:

It's a difference of opinion.

Keep it classy

There is no such thing as true "freedom"

I will admit this is not a very good bill for those of us with Authorizations

However, if you are not Authorized in this state I see no pitfall...

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True "freedom" is anarchy...
The state of Washington cant even get the laws straight for medical marijuana users and growers. Making it available to everybody over the age of 21 is only asking for a pitfall for everyone involved, and the people who will suffer most will be the people who need it the most...Not the recreational user, or the person who just loves to get high and veg on the couch every day. Its the person who cant get out of bed because their Rheumatoid Arthritis makes it too painful to walk or the person who cant get out of the house due to their Crohns. I'm all for decriminalization and legalization, but we need to step carefully through this mine field, and avoid running through it...or it'll take our legs out from under us, and I-502 is a step in the wrong direction that will leave us surrounded by issues which will blow up in our faces.

Again, please Vote No on I-502

SinisterBuds said:

True "freedom" is anarchy...
The state of Washington cant even get the laws straight for medical marijuana users and growers. Making it available to everybody over the age of 21 is only asking for a pitfall for everyone involved, and the people who will suffer most will be the people who need it the most...Not the recreational user, or the person who just loves to get high and veg on the couch every day. Its the person who cant get out of bed because their Rheumatoid Arthritis makes it too painful to walk or the person who cant get out of the house due to their Crohns. I'm all for decriminalization and legalization, but we need to step carefully through this mine field, and avoid running through it...or it'll take our legs out from under us, and I-502 is the first step in the wrong direction that will leave us surrounded by issues which will blow up in our faces.

Again, please Vote No on I-502

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These seem like two conflicting views on the subject.

coolkid.02 said:

These seem like two conflicting views on the subject.

Click to expand...

If you take them out of context, yes, they are conflicting...

I understand that 502 will harm the medical community... They are somewhat set-up but not very organized or standardized, and they have a good thing going...

However, if I was average Washington stoner why should I vote against this initiative?
- I already can't grow (but maybye feel better knowing my smoke has some form of standards)
- I never get pulled over (but wouldn't need to worry about being over the limit...unlike like most of us),
- I now can purchase this good legally.

Almost feels like the medical community has a "I've got mine" attitude...which is quite Disheartening

coolkid.02 said:

I understand that 502 will harm the medical community... They are somewhat set-up but not very organized or standardized, and they have a good thing going...

However, if I was average Washington stoner why should I vote against this initiative?
- I already can't grow (but maybye feel better knowing my smoke has some form of standards)
- I never get pulled over (but wouldn't need to worry about being over the limit...unlike like most of us),
- I now can purchase this good legally.

Almost feels like the medical community has a "I've got mine" attitude...which is quite Disheartening

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Can't grow? Did they make it more difficult to get medical authorizations since 6 months ago when I last renewed mine? You can already purchase legally, but perhaps you haven't visited a Seattle dispensary or called up a delivery service, except they won't charge you 25% tax. Also, something tells me the state's prices wont be your standard $30-$40/eighth. So you're looking at spending more, being forced to buy and not, under any circumstance, cultivate, while it seems to me the only benefit is the updated DUI standard. And how do you enforce a THC-blood concentration level? Going to do full lab work-up on every suspicious stoner-looking driver? That could get expensive. No worries, they'll use the money you gave them buy buying their marijuana to fund it. That will be another new earmark. Oh how the state of Washington can't wait to decide how they will spend this extra capital.

Let's sum up.
Cons -
-Spending more
-Under any circumstances (financial, lack of transportation, debilitating health, doesn't matter), cultivation is not allowed.
-Taking business away from business owners and farm owners and putting that revenue into the state's hands.
-The state-funded dispensaries would be run by the Liquor board.... The liquor board. This is who you want in charge?
Pros -
-When you get pulled over, and have your blood taken and sent off to a lab, you MIGHT hear back in 3-5 days that you were possibly not as intoxicated as the officer first suspected. For your troubles you get a pat on the back and get to avoid a DUI. (I assume refusing to consent to this ridiculous testing will result in an automatic DUI similar to declining a Breathalyzer.)

So, you ask, why should the average Washington stoner vote against this initiative? Why in the world would you vote FOR it? So you can pay for the right (by overpaying/taxation) to implement an edited DUI policy? Is it worth it? Do you really feel like if you vote for this initiative you're walking away with a win?

virulient said:

Can't grow? Did they make it more difficult to get medical authorizations since 6 months ago when I last renewed mine? You can already purchase legally, but perhaps you haven't visited a Seattle dispensary or called up a delivery service, except they won't charge you 25% tax. Also, something tells me the state's prices wont be your standard $30-$40/eighth. So you're looking at spending more, being forced to buy and not, under any circumstance, cultivate, while it seems to me the only benefit is the updated DUI standard. And how do you enforce a THC-blood concentration level? Going to do full lab work-up on every suspicious stoner-looking driver? That could get expensive. No worries, they'll use the money you gave them buy buying their marijuana to fund it. That will be another new earmark. Oh how the state of Washington can't wait to decide how they will spend this extra capital.

Let's sum up.
Cons -
-Spending more
-Under any circumstances (financial, lack of transportation, debilitating health, doesn't matter), cultivation is not allowed.
-Taking business away from business owners and farm owners and putting that revenue into the state's hands.
-The state-funded dispensaries would be run by the Liquor board.... The liquor board. This is who you want in charge?
Pros -
-When you get pulled over, and have your blood taken and sent off to a lab, you MIGHT hear back in 3-5 days that you were possibly not as intoxicated as the officer first suspected. For your troubles you get a pat on the back and get to avoid a DUI. (I assume refusing to consent to this ridiculous testing will result in an automatic DUI similar to declining a Breathalyzer.)

So, you ask, why should the average Washington stoner vote against this initiative? Why in the world would you vote FOR it? So you can pay for the right (by overpaying/taxation) to implement an edited DUI policy? Is it worth it? Do you really feel like if you vote for this initiative you're walking away with a win?

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We all know how easy it is to get a Authorization however not everyone has the time, energy, money, space, and love to devote to maintaining a garden...

"Unlicensed cannabis will still be illegal, including personal "grows" in one's own home, except for medical cannabis as regulated under RCW 69.51A (wiki I-502)"....

Yes, you are wrong...

patients can still grow

I see this as patients against pragmatism

Here is the deal if any state were to legalize, the federal government would stop all funding to that state. This has happened less than 10 years ago Denver. The damn state and county's need to figure out the medical rights first. Like all the moratoriums these counties are placing to figure out zoning. Thats fine to take 6 months to figure out some sort of safety. But not 18 months.

cavorkybuds420 said:

Here is the deal if any state were to legalize, the federal government would stop all funding to that state. This has happened less than 10 years ago Denver. The damn state and county's need to figure out the medical rights first. Like all the moratoriums these counties are placing to figure out zoning. Thats fine to take 6 months to figure out some sort of safety. But not 18 months.

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Very Interesting points Cavorky... Do you have a link about the story you are referencing about the federal government stopping all funds to Denver, I did a quick search but couldn't find anything...thx

Does anyone know if Authorizations will still be re-newed under RCW 69.51A?

Will Co-Ops and Dispensary's be closed under 502 or will they remain open to those with authorizations under RCW 69.51A?

coolkid.02 said:

Very Interesting points Cavorky... Do you have a link about the story you are referencing about the federal government stopping all funds to Denver, I did a quick search but couldn't find anything...thx

Does anyone know if Authorizations will still be re-newed under RCW 69.51A?

Will Co-Ops and Dispensary's be closed under 502 or will they remain open to those with authorizations under RCW 69.51A?

Click to expand...

I-502 will not effect medical patients or dispensaries at first.....I can see the 25% state tax on mj in addition to the 10% already in place being a requirement of medical stores.

the legaliztion of Marijuana should mean people having a choices.....Buy it if you want to...grow it if you want to.....not you are forced to buy it from us cause we collect the tax revenue

we have lifetime MMJ cards for washington state

No proof of the government stopping funds. But Denver Colorado used to have legal pot back in 2004 or so. Why would the state all of a sudden criminalize it again I believe within less that 2 years. I was just talking about this with my coworker, who lived in colarado when all this happend.
P.S. Your not going to find any news on the government cutting all federal funding to that state. Its called censorship aand man i hope my kids and yours do to!