Can we defeat Prop 19? will it pass? Is it as bogus as it seems?

The more i read about prop 19 the more i worry it is another fraud and will hurt the people of california. Can anyone fill me in on the fine points of this law? I have read that it would limit you to possesion of 1OZ and your growing space to 25 square feet i'm not sure if thats container space or cubic space is it just your planters or space the plant takes up? I heard something about it making it illegal to smoke around minors. would that include parents smoking in the home where children live? Isn't it legal for people to smoke cigarettes and drink booze and take whatever meds they may be pescribed so are they going to make it a crime for someone to smoke or eat marijuana in their home with children.? I also heard it will still be illegal to sell marijuana would this include non profit reasonable compensation for costs? How do they intend to regulate and inspect gardens? will they be going door to door or contacting electric companies? Will they require building inspectors or someone to inspect grows and make sure their up to code?

Anyone with answers...? Links?...Opinions?

First let's beat it. It will help not hurt us. If you slang bud, then it will hurt your business surely, but it will also keep you out of jail, out of problems, & protect your life. I am watching "The First 48" right now & a dude was killed over $150.00 worth of weed. Sad, really. $150.00 of weed in my county (Stanislaus, Cali) is nothing. Not worth a life sentence. It will decrease the value of marijuana (Prop 19) but like I said, if your not a dealer it won't effect you it'll only help you. Because now you get higher yields & lower costs. I'm sure once it has passed you will get better details on it & for the first few months you will see a lot of controversy that will answer questions for you.

California is the risk-taking state, if we pass it now, imagine who will follow? Many other states. Trust me.

They just ran an article in our newspaper (Which is distributed in 4 cities) front page on how Prop 19 will kill our state. So, like I said, we have to beat it first, the media is already scared otherwise they wouldn't be running these articles that are one-minded, very bias, & the facts within the articles are twisted to make Marijuana look how it has looked for decades, the dumb drug. I'm just hoping that San Francisco, Santa Cruz, Oakland, (The Bay) is doing a better job with they're media-coverage on Prop 19. A week ago, Prop 19 wouldn't have even been mentioned in discussion, now that it is getting closer to vote time, the media has been backed into a corner & they're shooting as much BS as they can leading up to the final weeks to turn everyone before vote time. It's a sad strategy, unfair, & the advantage is def. in the conservatives hands.

Cross your fingers. Marijuana will lose value, but it will gain so much more by being legalizes, I can create a novel of reasons why for you...

PS: Not many times do I run into a fellow Dyslexic Speedreader fan. Talent wise, I'd say Mickey has the most, the gayest? Sure he is, but talent wise, Avalon can rap, he has a different style, he has punch lines that are meant for music not stand up (Like Dirt) but I still think Nasty is a fucking G. As well as Andre. Like Mickey said though... "I traded one Andre for a better..." speaking on the breakup & touring with Andre Nickatina. He's also the smartest, lol...

Nickatina > Legacy

But I love em all... even C. Adler.

It still amazes me that growers and smokers are against this.

tnrtinr said:

It still amazes me that growers and smokers are against this.

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It's a 50/50 thing. It doesn't amaze me, it's like religion, people believe people dont, politics, your going to vote for him or her, it's a personal choice & both choices have many pros/cons. You have to realize that Prop 19 isn't going to be the best thing for marijuana nor the worst. I am for the legalization, but many aren't & they have legitimate reasons. Some people make 100% of they're income from growing & have already saw decreases in prices. So imagine what happens when legal? The decreased prices will continue at a faster rate. If you relied on sales to pay the bills (LIke many commission jobs) then you wouldn't like the fact that a law can wipe your business out.

You see how this can hurt many smokers/growers? Then we have people like myself, who would love to be able to have my medicine, worry free, therefore it helps us in many ways. The consumer gets higher yields at lower prices (me) while the grower gets less cash for more yield. So it hurts him.

All we can do is wait & see. If it gets passed, then the growers & others will have to learn how to adapt they're business into a legitimate business, others will just fall, crumble. If it isn't passed, then we go back to the same old thing we been doing... only time can tell.

I'd love for it to pass, but I'll be damned if I bought it at the local gas station...with all the shit big tobacco puts all in their cigs, I couldn't imagine how tainted the regulated weed would be lol

Will it pass? Possibly. California isn't as liberal as you may thing. Think of their recent proposition regarding gay marriage.

If it does pass, expect appeals left and right. Whether it be from the DEA, local conservative individuals, who ever it be. Similar to what happened after Prop 8, you can expect a fury of legal involvement.

Growers/distributors are against this because they understand that the current prices of marijuana are fixated on its access only within the black market or due to the fact that economies of scale haven't been achieved yet as it might be under a larger business or corporation. Alcohol companies are against it as well as they expect their product to be hit. For both, boo fucking hoo.

The article above seems to have a lot to do with 1) personal growing of the plant and 2) medical marijuana patients. The two make up a small number of the actual weed smokers. And I believe MM patients should be a lot more focused on actually getting their diseases/conditions actually cured instead of being able to alleviate their symptoms (which they have the right to do so).

Marijuana is a crop. If you've come across an economics text book, you'll understand that crops are so easy to produce at such a large quantity that the government has to come in and put a price-floor on what the crop should be sold at. That is through economies of scale and such large cultivation by a private industry, you would end up in a situation where grams could possibly go for less than a dollar. No lie.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want something like this passed. It will literally get the point where there will be very little reason for you to grow your weed because the opportunity cost would be far more higher if you were to buy it from a corporation that supplies it a ridiculously large level. The fact that there is some kind of legislation that will allow marijuana to become "legal" is better than there not being anything at all. A step, even if it is a baby step, towards marijuana legalization is better than no test at all. And I believe all eyes will be put on California if this does successfully pass and it will become a model for others. Similar occurrences regarding health care, education, and other legislation that have occurred within states do become mimicked if they are deemed successful. This will take time, and we do have time.

tnrtinr said:

It still amazes me that growers and smokers are against this.

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Im not into the idea of people going to jail or prison for a plant. I dont like the idea of people being fined for a plant. I dont like the idea of the govt telling you what you can do in your home in the presence of your family. I dont like the idea of only being able to purchase marijuana from a few major suppliers. If prop 19 was for legalization it would say " marijuana is not illegal" that would be the whole bill. that is not what it is it is putting more restrictions on marijuana to raise the number of fines and arrests and incarcerations and taxes and govt involvement. That is why I am voting no and hope it will not pass. READ THE WHOLE PROP VOTE

beardo said:

Im not into the idea of people going to jail or prison for a plant. I dont like the idea of people being fined for a plant. I dont like the idea of the govt telling you what you can do in your home in the presence of your family. I dont like the idea of only being able to purchase marijuana from a few major suppliers. If prop 19 was for legalization it would say " marijuana is not illegal" that would be the whole bill. that is not what it is it is putting more restrictions on marijuana to raise the number of fines and arrests and incarcerations and taxes and govt involvement. That is why I am voting no and hope it will not pass. READ THE WHOLE PROP VOTE

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Horseshit. Horseshit. Horseshit. You actually have the ability to have a stepping block towards full legalization of marijuana. IT WILL HAVE TO OCCUR IN INCREMENTAL STEPS. I'd love for it to be completely legalized, but that will not happen. The only reason this bill is being pushed forward is because of the affects that medical marijuana has had on California over the past decade and more. The only reason we can even be at this stage is because the step was taken towards medical marijuana. Now we'll be divulging towards lesser restrictions on marijuana and the likelyhood it will be a revenue generating crop. And if prop 19 passes, this will be another accomplishment. And its success (which I am sure will occur) will inevitably lead to full marijuana legalization and distribution.

Not only that, but it will catch the attention of other states. If I recall correctly, 14 states have some kind of medical marijuana laws, no? Do you think that would be possible if it wasn't for California taking the first step?

Grow the fuck up and vote yes.

Some of you guys slay me. This is a historic vote to bring weed more mainstream. The law can always be modified later, just get the damn thing on the books. It'll be a lot harder for other states to throw someone in jail for 20 years for growing 20 plants when they are doing it legally in california. We have been fighting for this recognition from day one. No it isn't perfect, what the fuck is? Pay the damn $50 oz tax and produce legal bud. If you are walking around with more than a oz and are not a medical provider, your are dealing and breaking known laws anyways. No you can't smoke with minors, so fucking what? You can't drink with them either, nor can you give them cigarettes. Wake up!

Any smokers or private growers that vote no to this are buying into the BS that is secretly being manipulated by the big church and other anti-19 peeps. NORML is for the passing of this prop. They lead the nation in bringing such proposals to voters.

END PROHIBITION and vote YES on 19! It is a step in the right direction. Only those that profit by growing and selling marijuana at inflated prices should be against this, not casual smokers and hobbyists.

Serapis said:

This is a historic vote to bring weed more mainstream. -The law can always be modified later, just get the damn thing on the books. We have been fighting for this recognition from day one. No it isn't perfect, what the fuck is?- No you can't smoke with minors, so fucking what? You can't drink with them either, nor can you give them cigarettes. Wake up!

Any smokers or private growers that vote no to this are buying into the BS that is secretly being manipulated .

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Jack Herer was against this law. Once it is on the books and their is profit being made the law will not change. Actually you can drink around your kids and smoke cigarettes in your house to but the law not only says you cant give marijuana to minors but states that you can not use it in a place where their are minors present= In your house where your family lives? thats how it is written sounds like it could lead to problems. It also limits the size of your grow space who is going to be inspecting grows? Everyone seems to think their will be a big price reduction but do you really think these big companies want to give you a good deal? Their touting this as good for the economy but when you think of how many people make a living on the states number one cash crop either directly or indirectly this could lead to even more poverty and unemployment. It also makes it illegal to buy and sell marijuana so you have to buy it from a dispensery ...Doesn't sound like legalization to me

beardo said:

Jack Herer was against this law. Once it is on the books and their is profit being made the law will not change. Actually you can drink around your kids and smoke cigarettes in your house to but the law not only says you cant give marijuana to minors but states that you can not use it in a place where their are minors present= In your house where your family lives? thats how it is written sounds like it could lead to problems. It also limits the size of your grow space who is going to be inspecting grows? Everyone seems to think their will be a big price reduction but do you really think these big companies want to give you a good deal? Their touting this as good for the economy but when you think of how many people make a living on the states number one cash crop either directly or indirectly this could lead to even more poverty and unemployment. It also makes it illegal to buy and sell marijuana so you have to buy it from a dispensery ...Doesn't sound like legalization to me

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And how exactly will the law regarding whether or not it is in the presence of minors be enforced? That is very difficult to do, and I doubt the police will come knocking on your door making an attempt to do so. You're being far too paranoid.

It limits the size of your grow space, but who is going to be inspecting grow spaces? My point exactly with the argument above. Enforcement will be difficult, and it does occur, just stick to the limits. And as I said before, it will get to the point where it is against your best interest (from an economically standpoint regarding opportunity cost) for you to grow your own shit vs. buying it from others.

Yeah, there will be a price reduction. Illegality and black markets affect the current price. And companies have a great incentive to place the cost of marijuana to consumer at a reasonable price: they want you to come back and buy some more later on! Do you not understand what I have been arguing regarding the ease of production of marijuana when it comes to large amounts of capital and economies of scale associate with it? Are you unaware that as competition occurs when it is legal that prices will drop. And have you not thought about the fact that costs will be cut in pursuing and prosecuting marijuana users? And you make it sound as if the number of growers is somewhere in the half-millions or so, which I highly doubt. The loss of the income for growers and distributors is another horse-shit argument doesn't do shit to me in the first place. Why do you care for such a small quantity of individuals that force you to pay an absurdly high premium for marijuana? Your argument is faltered beyond disbelief. And the attempt to sell as a dispensary is to be able to collect the revenue from the sale of marijuana, which is the point of the fucking proposition in the first place. What the hell is the matter with you? Are you a grower yourself that is incapable of picking up another trade or skill if you get displaced? Boo-fucking-hoo.

Drug Cartels have such a strong grip on marijuana. It accounts, according to some sources, as much as 60% of their revenue. Billions are being forced outside of out country and into Mexico where the slaying of tens of thousands of individuals occurs as a direct result of us granting them the revenue.

Grow the fuck up.

The Mastermind said:

And how exactly will the law regarding whether or not it is in the presence of minors be enforced? That is very difficult to do, and I doubt the police will come knocking on your door making an attempt to do so. You're being far too paranoid.

It limits the size of your grow space, but who is going to be inspecting grow spaces? My point exactly with the argument above. Enforcement will be difficult, and it does occur, just stick to the limits. And as I said before, it will get to the point where it is against your best interest (from an economically standpoint regarding opportunity cost) for you to grow your own shit vs. buying it from others.

Yeah, there will be a price reduction. Illegality and black markets affect the current price. And companies have a great incentive to place the cost of marijuana to consumer at a reasonable price: they want you to come back and buy some more later on! Do you not understand what I have been arguing regarding the ease of production of marijuana when it comes to large amounts of capital and economies of scale associate with it? Are you unaware that as competition occurs when it is legal that prices will drop. And have you not thought about the fact that costs will be cut in pursuing and prosecuting marijuana users? And you make it sound as if the number of growers is somewhere in the half-millions or so, which I highly doubt. The loss of the income for growers and distributors is another horse-shit argument doesn't do shit to me in the first place. Why do you care for such a small quantity of individuals that force you to pay an absurdly high premium for marijuana? Your argument is faltered beyond disbelief. And the attempt to sell as a dispensary is to be able to collect the revenue from the sale of marijuana, which is the point of the fucking proposition in the first place. What the hell is the matter with you? Are you a grower yourself that is incapable of picking up another trade or skill if you get displaced? Boo-fucking-hoo.

Drug Cartels have such a strong grip on marijuana. It accounts, according to some sources, as much as 60% of their revenue. Billions are being forced outside of out country and into Mexico where the slaying of tens of thousands of individuals occurs as a direct result of us granting them the revenue.

Grow the fuck up.

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Ha Ha your a joke. !! is marijuana sending billions to mexican drug cartels and slaying tens of thousands...??????????? or is that the u.s. govt and the u.s. companies that manufacture guns or the u.s. laws that allow us to sell them weapons? Your hole post is so uninformed it is laughable.

Well both sides have great points (although I don't see too much rebuttle for Masterminds argument) but what of the effects of legalization on bigger scales other than recreational/medical purposes...such as the fuel/oil industry, timber, textiles, etc.?

beardo said:

Ha Ha your a joke. !! is marijuana sending billions to mexican drug cartels and slaying tens of thousands...??????????? or is that the u.s. govt and the u.s. companies that manufacture guns or the u.s. laws that allow us to sell them weapons? Your hole post is so uninformed it is laughable.

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Let me break it down for your dumbass.

Where exactly do the cartels get the money to buy these weapons? What is their main revenue source? They don't control any legitimate businesses that I know of, but I'm sure they have their hands in some. That's right; they get their money from ... drum roll please ... DRUGS! They enter the black market, use physical and endangering methods of securing their revenue at the expense of innocent individuals, and they profit madly. A recent drug cartel lord just became a billionaire. Are you fucking kidding me?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-johnson/legalize-marijuana-to-sto_b_696430.html

Instead of sitting there and trying to connect the dots in your feeble head, at least make an attempt to research the topic and then make an argument. Whether it be the revenue sources of cartels or what Prop 19 may do for marijuana efforts in general.

The only reason marijuana isn't legal is cause of morons like you.

The Mastermind said:

Will it pass? Possibly. California isn't as liberal as you may thing. Think of their recent proposition regarding gay marriage.

If it does pass, expect appeals left and right. Whether it be from the DEA, local conservative individuals, who ever it be. Similar to what happened after Prop 8, you can expect a fury of legal involvement.

Growers/distributors are against this because they understand that the current prices of marijuana are fixated on its access only within the black market or due to the fact that economies of scale haven't been achieved yet as it might be under a larger business or corporation. Alcohol companies are against it as well as they expect their product to be hit. For both, boo fucking hoo.

The article above seems to have a lot to do with 1) personal growing of the plant and 2) medical marijuana patients. The two make up a small number of the actual weed smokers. And I believe MM patients should be a lot more focused on actually getting their diseases/conditions actually cured instead of being able to alleviate their symptoms (which they have the right to do so).

Marijuana is a crop. If you've come across an economics text book, you'll understand that crops are so easy to produce at such a large quantity that the government has to come in and put a price-floor on what the crop should be sold at. That is through economies of scale and such large cultivation by a private industry, you would end up in a situation where grams could possibly go for less than a dollar. No lie.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want something like this passed. It will literally get the point where there will be very little reason for you to grow your weed because the opportunity cost would be far more higher if you were to buy it from a corporation that supplies it a ridiculously large level. The fact that there is some kind of legislation that will allow marijuana to become "legal" is better than there not being anything at all. A step, even if it is a baby step, towards marijuana legalization is better than no test at all. And I believe all eyes will be put on California if this does successfully pass and it will become a model for others. Similar occurrences regarding health care, education, and other legislation that have occurred within states do become mimicked if they are deemed successful. This will take time, and we do have time.

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What he said ^

After doing some research and analysis about prop 19, I don't see how it puts more restrictions on anyone.
The 1 oz limit... that's in public. If you're not a dealer, what are you doing with more than one ounce on you in highly populated areas/schools whipping out for everyone to see? (Only places I can think of that someone would get caught by police)
If you're driving in your car to transport bud I could understand having more than an ounce, but you don't have to worry about dogs anymore because weed will be legal, so cops CANNOT use a search dog to find your bud. Just keep it in your glove compartment, or a backpack, and the cops can't search it, easy as that. (If you keep your registration in your glove box, don't put it there). Furthermore, if you are in the business of transporting around a good amount of bud, GET YOUR FUCKING CARD, prop 19 doesn't stop anything that 215 lets you do, so with a card you will be able to carry around at least a half pound, which you already can do.
If you happen to be a dealer, and are worrying about the prices dropping drastically, guess what... that means bulk will cost WAY less too, so your profits will remain unchanged. A massive amount of weed is not going to be available in super stores or gas stations for a long time. If you have a family business and you want your grand-kids to deal, then make your own weed corporation, it will be legal.

The allotted grow spot dilemma... Are you concerned that a 25 sqft area is too small? Well what's the current area that you can grow in... 0 sqft. How does this limit anything? Prop 19 doesn't do shit to prop 215 rights, so if you have a card you can grow up to 99 plants in certain counties.

What about the growers that are worried about business? Remember your first time growing... the bud may have been good, but you probably only got an ounce - two ounces per plant. That runs out, as you already know, very quickly. Not only that, but the bud you grow will still be way better than the bud your customer grew. And who do you think your customer is going to buy clones/seeds from? You'll basically become a mini dispensary.

In my opinion, prop 19 will lower the overall cost of bud, not too significantly, and people will definitely still buy from their dealers. Especially college/high school kids who can't buy it legally anyway. It will also put around a bunch of b buds for a few years, but then lots of people will get good at growing, and bud overall will be much much much much better. More good growers sharing tricks with each other + more technology for legal growing = Really dank buds that are easily accessible. If you consider yourself a stoner, and you want better bud in the future, then vote yes on prop 19.

Dragonfly De La Luz is an idiot. As far as the whole one ounce thing, it's one ounce on person. That means if you are walking around town with up to one ounce of weed on you, you're fine. You can have an unlimited amount of pot in your home. Your harvest is your harvest, You can have all the pot you harvest at home, you can only take out 1 ounce at a time on your person.

25 square feet is a start. Since there is no distinction between a "square layout" or just straight up 25 square feet (taken up in your grow area) such as, in a row (as in a straight line), then you can be protected by a lawyer in court. Better yet, if you start talking about circular flower pots you have even more "space" because it only takes up so much square footage, due to the way you would measure in circular diameter rather than square inches. Really who is going to come in every house in California to check if you have your shit set up right?

Please don't be greedy, even if this prop has some flaws, it's a good start. We can always fix it after it has been passed. In the end what we are doing first is protecting ourselves from prosecution that's the whole point of making it legal! Remember even though sometimes we forget... we still are criminals for enjoying a safer alternative to alcohol. After Prop 19 has passed, then we can worry about how much weed we can carry on our us. As far as the whole getting arrested for smoking in an area that has kids in the same space, That's vague on purpose. "Space" can be defined as an area, as in the universe if you wanted. No one is going to win a case in court if they say you smoke pot in an apartment building that houses a day care two stories down... In the end it's up to your landlord to make rules and regulations concerning smoking... which you can always get around by vaporizing and all. we are so close... we are winning, let's keep moving forward.

walk through of prop19 and debunking Dragonfly De La Luz. Source: http://stash.norml.org/tossed-salad-dragonfly-de-la-luz-supports-misdemeanors-for-80-of-californias-cannabis-consumers