Baking Soda and pH up

Redoctober said:

So I've been having the most violent pH swings, pretty much exclusively to the acidic side, so I've been using pH up like a madman. I find my pH drifts down a full point from 5.8 to 4.8 almost twice a day. I am running an areoponic system with GH nutrients and RO water. I do a rez change about every 7 or 8 days. I eventually ran out of pH up and decided to try baking soda because I couldn't make it down to the grow store. Interestingly I found that the baking soda really seemed to stabilize my rez solution. I stopped having those huge downward drifts and now actually have to use pH down because the solution is to alkaline. I do realize that over the course of a week or 10 days, as the plants consume certain nutrients the pH switches from drifting down in the beginning to drifting up as the week is ending and it's time for a rez change.

So I'm wondering if the stabilization I experienced with baking soda is a coincidence? And Are there reasons why baking soda might be bad, because I feel like incorporating it into my rez, maybe not replacing pH up entirely, but using the two in conjunction. I just want to make sure that it won't encourage harmful algae or cause lockout.

Click to expand...

Lol! If you think this is a nutrient problem i reckon 100% of hydro growers would tell you to avoid these crazy ferts like the plague, violent pH swings!!! Used whole bottle of pH up!!! Baking soda stabalization!!!

What logic is there to your advice? Drop the ferts or look for what else swings pH wildly in Hydro!!! Getting bored now!

Kingrow1 said:

He even quotes this himself, he problem shoots by checking every variable and making it right! That is the way, the dude uses one grow, one bloom fert, H2O2, the right temps and big ass lights and out grows every one. I think id rather read his threads and focus my problem solving on exactly how he dose it, dose not every grow he comments on show vast improvement in a very short time? He even questions the needs for enzymes and other additives in hydro.

He wrote these threads exactly for people like the OP and his situation, infact maybe the OP can get a verdict from him, he still answers questions and problems?? Peace

Click to expand...

I know all about Al B. Fuct, the RIU maven. And I have no doubt that I could learn something from his threads.

And I actually DO agree with his idea that simpler is better for hydro. I already came to the conculsion that Hygrozyme is not reacting well to the base nute I've been using. So you see? I've already eliminated all the variables. And root rot was the first thing I eliminated. I'll replace hygrozyme with AN's Sensizyme. If the ph doesn't stabilize, i'll eliminate enzymes altogether.

Now unless you or anyone else has used this exact base/additive combination I'm using with the exact kind of system I'm using, then you won't know how to advise me, and it's something I'm just going to have to figure out on my own. And I have.

lordjin said:

I know all about Al B. Fuct, the RIU maven. And I have no doubt that I could learn something from his threads.

And I actually DO agree with his idea that simpler is better for hydro. I already came to the conculsion that Hygrozyme is not reacting well to the base nute I've been using. So you see? I've already eliminated all the variables. And root rot was the first thing I eliminated. I'll replace hygrozyme with AN's Sensizyme. If the ph doesn't stabilize, i'll eliminate enzymes altogether.

Click to expand...

If you deem it worth the effort then rock on totally but there are easier and better ways for others and i generally would not recomend a troublesome product unless it really is gona push them yeilds over what would be a simple two part fert with H2O2.

Now unless you or anyone else has used this exact base/additive combination I'm using with the exact kind of system I'm using, then you won't know how to advise me, and it's something I'm just going to have to figure out on my own. And I have

Click to expand...

My advice was to the OP and to drop these variables for some that are more condusive to him and will give a speedier and easier grow. If i ran a hydro op id definatly not be intrested in the hassle ,unfortunatly, of these products for the OP's original problems. I didnt want to comment more question the logic of the reasoning here and why other variables that give wild pH swings in hydro are not considered.

I have not quite yet got my 'AL B' Hounary Diploma but neither do i want to act like a 'Stoney Mc Doper'. Peace

Kingrow1 said:

Lol! If you think this is a nutrient problem i reckon 100% of hydro growers would tell you to avoid these crazy ferts like the plague, violent pH swings!!! Used whole bottle of pH up!!! Baking soda stabalization!!!

What logic is there to your advice? Drop the ferts or look for what else swings pH wildly in Hydro!!! Getting bored now!

Click to expand...

He wasn't giving advice, but just stating the experience he had with the baking soda.

I don't find anything constructive about this post. You're just trying to make him look bad now.

You're not even a hydro grower.

Kingrow1 said:

If you deem it worth the effort then rock on totally but there are easier and better ways for others and i generally would not recomend a troublesome product unless it really is gona push them yeilds over what would be a simple two part fert with H2O2.



My advice was to the OP and to drop these variables for some that are more condusive to him and will give a speedier and easier grow. If i ran a hydro op id definatly not be intrested in the hassle ,unfortunatly, of these products for the OP's original problems. I didnt want to comment more question the logic of the reasoning here and why other variables that give wild pH swings in hydro are not considered.

I have not quite yet got my 'AL B' Hounary Diploma but neither do i want to act like a 'Stoney Mc Doper'. Peace

Click to expand...

Stick to giving advice to soil growers. Advice should be given based on personal experience, not what Al said.

Kingrow1 said:

Yep and the reason for the low pH swings too most likely/definatly. Anything that gets hold and grows in the res system will be fusrium and verticulum based and their byproducts are acidic.

Please use H2O2 in the future at the right grade and dosage, is not 50%H2O2 meant to be dosed at 7ml a litre as per the AL-B-Fuct threads where he pretty much say in full on plain english/australian that pH going low is always the case of bacterial and fungal growth in the res system??

Is this simply whats happening here please??? Dose not the baking soda kill the growth of nasties just like H2O2???
Peace

Click to expand...

Um this is not constructive no???

And to which you basically reply...

lordjin said:

Plus all the other posters, God bless 'em, are visualizing other peoples' grows based on photos and often questionable descriptions. there's no way any of these guys posting advice on this thread can know every detail about your grow system or mine or your techniques or mine. For example, these guys didn't know I was using an enzymatic root enhancer before advising me to flush with hydrogen peroxide.

Click to expand...

Before unjustly making unsubstantiated comments like

lordjin said:

But What I've been learning the more I grow is that specific situations can arise involving strain / environment interaction that don't fall neatly into any of the established explanations of cause and effect.

Click to expand...

To which the science of growing explains all cause and effect and there you are of again about 'VARIABLES' plus for good measure you threw in the classic strain problem before saying

I could put a up a post that says my ph is dropping and I'll just get all the same responses telling me to flush with hyrogen peroxide or something. What's the point in that since I already know it isn't root rot caused by bad bacteria?

Click to expand...

Then either explain the original pH shifting problem or maybe hit on some more strain or variable issues?!

Or maybe just skip that and insult me by saying...

lordjin said:

I don't find anything constructive about this post. You're just trying to make him look bad now.

Click to expand...

And even worse

You're not even a hydro grower.

Click to expand...

To which i replied that and stated that their are no formal hydro qualifications and that he wasnt even a chemist so how can he get involved in a baking soda question! Seriously how?

And then

lordjin said:

Stick to giving advice to soil growers.

Click to expand...

Or what?

Advice should be given based on personal experience, not what Al said.

Click to expand...

Um i was suggesting the OP follow exactly what AL dose and not screw around with things that give you wild pH swings and cause you some lost profit in pH up company shares!!

And without a second comeback Kingrow had left the thread and quietly closed the door behind him safe in the knowledge that most of what you said here dosent really corerate to constructiveness more heresay and assumptions, i mean

lordjin said:

But What I've been learning the more I grow is that specific situations can arise involving strain / environment interaction that don't fall neatly into any of the established explanations of cause and effect.

Click to expand...

again this is your answer? Crazy stuff!

Kingrow1 said:

Um this is not constructive no???

And to which you basically reply...



Before unjustly making unsubstantiated comments like




To which the science of growing explains all cause and effect and there you are of again about 'VARIABLES' plus for good measure you threw in the classic strain problem before saying



Then either explain the original pH shifting problem or maybe hit on some more strain or variable issues?!

Or maybe just skip that and insult me by saying...



And even worse



To which i replied that and stated that their are no formal hydro qualifications and that he wasnt even a chemist so how can he get involved in a baking soda question! Seriously how?

And then



Or what?



Um i was suggesting the OP follow exactly what AL dose and not screw around with things that give you wild pH swings and cause you some lost profit in pH up company shares!!

And without a second comeback Kingrow had left the thread and quietly closed the door behind him safe in the knowledge that most of what you said here dosent really corerate to constructiveness more heresay and assumptions, i mean



again this is your answer? Crazy stuff!

Click to expand...

Dude, are you for fucking real? Look at all this shit. Why don't you stop jerking off with your keyboard fantasizing that you're a hydro expert? You go around giving advice based on someone else's knowledge and then you criticize me for not having a definite answer? And I suppose you have the definite answer based upon all the reading you've done of Al's posts?

Most people are pretty cool around here and realize that they shouldn't get too big for their britches just from having read someone else's posts. Not you. You're the resident hydro expert with a journal that shows a few cruddy potted plants in dirt.

How many successful hydro grows have you completed? Where are the photos?

No? Don't have any? Then quietly leave once again and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

And why don't you stop giving advice from someone eles's experience and start an Al B. Fuct fanclub or something?

Edit:

And hearsay and assupmtions? Hey, at least I grow hydro and am trying to help this guy the best I can based upon what I have personally experienced. You're the one giving "advice" based on something you heard... and you're the one assuming that what you heard is all correct without ever having done it yourself.

If Al has the midas touch and fixes all problem grows with a stroke of his finger, then let this guy go directly to him... or let Al come here and set us all straight. That would be fine. But you're not Al, are you?

Here's the correct spelling and meaning of hearsay since you're so clearly clueless:

Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience.

See? That's YOU. Not me.

Oh, and one more.

In answer to your question: or what? I'll just outline how full of shit you are. Already did it. Wasn't hard to do, either.

Kingrow1 said:

Yep and the reason for the low pH swings too most likely/definatly. Anything that gets hold and grows in the res system will be fusrium and verticulum based and their byproducts are acidic.

Please use H2O2 in the future at the right grade and dosage, is not 50%H2O2 meant to be dosed at 7ml a litre as per the AL-B-Fuct threads where he pretty much say in full on plain english/australian that pH going low is always the case of bacterial and fungal growth in the res system??

Is this simply whats happening here please??? Dose not the baking soda kill the growth of nasties just like H2O2???
Peace

Click to expand...

How the fuck do you know, dirt farmer?

He wasn't giving advice, but just stating the experience he had with the baking soda. I don't find anything constructive about this post. You're just trying to make him look bad now. You're not even a hydro grower.

Click to expand...

Exactly, thanks lordjin. I was not advocating or advising anyone to use baking soda in my original post. I was simply stating that I had used it experimentally, it seemed to help, and wanted to know if there were any reasons why it shouldn't be used. It turns out that people responded with some very valid reasons why it should NOT be used regularly, thus I shall be taking their advice. The discussion then evolved to one of pH swings, what causes them and how to deal with it. Yes there are lots of threads like this but every discussion is different so I see no reason why this one should not take place.

I just read a very interesting thread here:

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/446482-crazy-ph-swings-read.html

Redoctober said:

Exactly, thanks lordjin. I was not advocating or advising anyone to use baking soda in my original post. I was simply stating that I had used it experimentally, it seemed to help, and wanted to know if there were any reasons why it shouldn't be used. It turns out that people responded with some very valid reasons why it should NOT be used regularly, thus I shall be taking their advice. The discussion then evolved to one of pH swings, what causes them and how to deal with it. Yes there are lots of threads like this but every discussion is different so I see no reason why this one should not take place.

I just read a very interesting thread here:

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/446482-crazy-ph-swings-read.html

Click to expand...

Hobgoblit said:

Crazy pH Swings – How Media and Bacteria Affect pH in Hydroponics

May 21st, 2010 | Author: admin

The answer to these wild pH swings comes from an understanding of the chemistry behind everything within your hydroponic system.

Click to expand...

Also my point (one that seems lacking) but i care not to discuss futher, i feel you will find the info you want, its certainly out there if you look. Peace and good luck

lordjin said:

But What I've been learning the more I grow is that specific situations can arise involving strain / environment interaction that don't fall neatly into any of the established explanations of cause and effect.?

Click to expand...

lordjin said:

How the fuck do you know, dirt farmer?

Click to expand...

Kingrow1 said:

Is this simply whats happening here please??? Dose not the baking soda kill the growth of nasties just like H2O2???
Peace

Click to expand...

Did i say or sate i knew, it was formed into a question if you cant read, unfortunatly i no longer care! Seriously its the thick that get arsey in the face of knowledge! We all know that here!

lordjin said:

Edit:
Oh my god, shut the fuck up with your tard shit. I just might have to check with Al myself to see if he endorses your illiterate ass. Somehow I doubt it.

Click to expand...

Al endorses no-one, have you actually read his threads and i have no affiliation with him either apart from the fact he knows his stuff and probably better than you or me. I doubt neither Al nor i care to be honest. Please hit him up by all means, is of very little importance to me if he veiws my references to his threads badly, i also quoted the other thread pasted here, maybe hit him up to and say kingrow just pasted right out of your thread!lolololol¬!

I like Als attitude, even if he calls me a moronic diseculant i would feel honoured to the max and find it quite the honour, i only like him seek to get this stuff right. You dont like my questioning everything! you have serious problems with my grammer which incedentally being stoned in the dark typing is quite the exscuse round here mr straight head english teacher!lololol

lordjin said:

Edit:
And now you're saying you don't know? Then don't fucking give advice on it, you fucking retard.

Click to expand...

And all along, i didnt give advice, i made a statement and asked if this was correct and especially the correlation between baking soda and death of organic life! Lets not dispute written word a page or two back!

And then we come to the fact that hydro is childs play dude, the real men grow indoors in soil, thats where there are real variables and real enzymes and stuff like things you have obviously not conqured yet.

Seriously this is like the seventh or eigth serious insult, its a computer dude, im not really offended!lolol

lordjin said:

Why the fuck do you keep quoting me, dirt farmer? What the fuck do you know about hydro or even growing for that matter? Go to the dirt farmer section where people don't know what the fuck they're doing. You should be right at home there.

Click to expand...

Says the Noob In the Newbie section!lololol Quote Quote Quote!!!!

lordjin said:

to flush with hydrogen peroxide because our ph is drifting

Click to expand...

Again did i actually say the word flush please even though its written in plain english or American!lol!

And i simply made a correlation against organic life in the hydro system and baking sodas action at maybe accomplishing the same effect as H2O2, what part of this do you not understand.

Another thread got dropped here as well, big deal mr name caller!

tellno1 said:

the only problem with baking soda is that it puts a lot of sodium in the mix .. which could cause nute imbalances ... i only use it in a pinch .. maybe try a little h2o2 in your rez if your worried about algae


happy growin

Click to expand...

And this guy wanted to discuss the same issues but you just slated us a few posts later!

lordjin said:

What part of shut your stupid face don't you understand,noob?

Click to expand...

None of it!

lordjin said:

Let's keep this going by all means. Let's see who they ban first... you or me.

Click to expand...

Um that would be you for being offensive, you know this is generally not accepted here but i'll overlook it just this once.

lordjin said:

And I assure you, you're the only idiot offended.

Click to expand...

Quite the opposite, i found this wicked resource thread, this guy is unreal for info, like it drools from his mouth, wow!

Um i dont grow in dirt, um kinda wana dont have yo point out at this stage that my soil is dirt free and more peat and stuff like but i feel like this might futher offend your fragile nature.

Very much thanks for this thread, great stuff - https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/446482-crazy-ph-swings-read.html[/QUOTE]

Kingrow1 said:

Quite the opposite, i found this wicked resource thread, this guy is unreal for info, like it drools from his mouth, wow!

Um i dont grow in dirt, um kinda wana dont have yo point out at this stage that my soil is dirt free and more peat and stuff like but i feel like this might futher offend your fragile nature.

Very much thanks for this thread, great stuff - https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/446482-crazy-ph-swings-read.html

Click to expand...

Don't try to play all nice now after you obnoxiously ridiculed this thread starter.

News flash: if it ain't hydro, it's dirt.

lordjin said:

Don't try to play all nice now after you obnoxiously ridiculed this thread starter.

Click to expand...

Im a funny man, i wrote a few comidies when i was a little youger, it happens big deal, obnoxious no, ridiculed you, ahh probably, it was easy to do i suppose.
Seriously though you might wana tone down that swearing.

And page 5 and you have yet to come to any direct correlation between baking soda and pH but rather step on a statement of question (in the truest grammatical sense of the written word) and avoid the relevant questions?

You, i stated way back i had nothing futher i wanted to add to this thread just before the OP pasted a thread and said lets talk about this, i feel you were at a crossroads back then and possibly/definatly took the wrong route.

Maybe just go back, click his pasted thread and start posting on that.

Why am i the one pointing out the obvious here, puff puff!

Kingrow1 said:

You, i stated way back i had nothing futher i wanted to add to this thread just before the OP pasted a thread and said lets talk about this, i feel you were at a crossroads back then and possibly/definatly took the wrong route.

Maybe just go back, click his pasted thread and start posting on that.

Why am i the one pointing out the obvious here, puff puff!

Click to expand...

I only see that he thanked me for correcting you and noted the discussion shift to ph drift. And that link is by a good friend of mine Hobgoblit with great info. So what's that got to do with you?