Baking Soda and pH up

[Redoctober]

So I've been having the most violent pH swings, pretty much exclusively to the acidic side, so I've been using pH up like a madman. I find my pH drifts down a full point from 5.8 to 4.8 almost twice a day. I am running an areoponic system with GH nutrients and RO water. I do a rez change about every 7 or 8 days. I eventually ran out of pH up and decided to try baking soda because I couldn't make it down to the grow store. Interestingly I found that the baking soda really seemed to stabilize my rez solution. I stopped having those huge downward drifts and now actually have to use pH down because the solution is to alkaline. I do realize that over the course of a week or 10 days, as the plants consume certain nutrients the pH switches from drifting down in the beginning to drifting up as the week is ending and it's time for a rez change.

So I'm wondering if the stabilization I experienced with baking soda is a coincidence? And Are there reasons why baking soda might be bad, because I feel like incorporating it into my rez, maybe not replacing pH up entirely, but using the two in conjunction. I just want to make sure that it won't encourage harmful algae or cause lockout.

 

[tellno1]

the only problem with baking soda is that it puts a lot of sodium in the mix .. which could cause nute imbalances ... i only use it in a pinch .. maybe try a little h2o2 in your rez if your worried about algae


happy growin

 

[nick17gar]

one thing i do is mix a small amount of each nutrient at 100% strength in separate containers and test the pH of each. last time i did this i found 2 with pH between 6.5 and 7,and another with 4.3 pH! they vary a lot, its good to know whats making the changes.
i also added some dolomite lime ball things to my hydro reservoir, it helped keep the pH steady around 6

 

[Redoctober]

the only problem with baking soda is that it puts a lot of sodium in the mix .. which could cause nute imbalances ... i only use it in a pinch .. maybe try a little h2o2 in your rez if your worried about algae

I see...I guess that's reason enough not to use it. Extra sodium sounds like it would cause osmosis of nutrients out of the roots instead of into them which would be bad. Although the amount of baking soda being used is fairly small, 1/8 teaspoon in a 12 gallon rez. But still, I don't want to mess with anything like that. I'm not really concerned with algae as I do weekly rez changes and run a clean aero system with no sludgy organic nutes, just GH flora series and a pinch of home made clear rez (chlorine) to keep things tidy. Never had any problem with nasty elements in the rez, though H2O2 has other benefits like oxygenating the roots that I might like to partake in, it's just difficult to get the 35 percent food grade stuff.

one thing i do is mix a small amount of each nutrient at 100% strength in separate containers and test the pH of each. last time i did this i found 2 with pH between 6.5 and 7,and another with 4.3 pH! they vary a lot, its good to know whats making the changes. i also added some dolomite lime ball things to my hydro reservoir, it helped keep the pH steady around 6

That's a good idea, I never tested my nutes individually to see what has the strongest effect on pH. Those dolomite ball things sound very interesting, do you have any info on that? I've never heard anyone mention them before. I'm open to anything that keeps my pH stable.

 

[lordjin]

Funny, I just switched from GH to AN Sensi as a test comparison. AN does the exact opposite. Rises after res change, starts dropping as next res change approaches.

Hey, sometimes you just gotta fight the good fight and keep dosing. And yeah, agree with the other guy, don't use household substitutes.

 

[Redoctober]

Funny, I just switched from GH to AN Sensi as a test comparison. AN does the exact opposite. Rises after res change, starts dropping as next res change approaches.

Interesting lordjin...so it's actually the nutrients that cause the change in pH? All this time I was thinking that there was something that the roots were secreting into the water that was causing the pH drifts (metabolic waste or something). But it would actually make more sense that the nutes cause the change because this happens even in my cloner where the plants don't even have roots yet or a way to secrete anything (that I know of). I never actually tried running either my aero system or aero cloner without any plants to see what would happen.

Do you find that you have to add pH down twice a day? I switched from GH to Dutch Master just to try it out, but I have the same downward drift as I did with GH so I'm constantly adding pH up like every 6-10 hours I need to add like 2mL.

I also notice though that after about a week, the drift slows to a halt, then reverses itself and drifts the opposite way. Does this happen to anyone else?

 

[lordjin]

Interesting lordjin...so it's actually the nutrients that cause the change in pH? All this time I was thinking that there was something that the roots were secreting into the water that was causing the pH drifts (metabolic waste or something). But it would actually make more sense that the nutes cause the change because this happens even in my cloner where the plants don't even have roots yet or a way to secrete anything (that I know of). I never actually tried running either my aero system or aero cloner without any plants to see what would happen.

Do you find that you have to add pH down twice a day? I switched from GH to Dutch Master just to try it out, but I have the same downward drift as I did with GH so I'm constantly adding pH up like every 6-10 hours I need to add like 2mL.

I also notice though that after about a week, the drift slows to a halt, then reverses itself and drifts the opposite way. Does this happen to anyone else?

It's not always easy to zero in on the cause of ph drift. There's so much going on in a grow, that it could be any factor or combination of factors. But I always like looking at the direct source, the nutrient in the res water. Different nutes react to my oxygen bubble exploding, dual mag-drive pump res in differend ways as I'm discovering.

Right now I have to constantly adjust up as my ph tends to fall with the AN. But again, I have to be careful about attributing it all to the AN. I'm gonna swap out the filter elements in my RO filter to see if that stabilizes things a bit.

 

[dp sux]

Guys its been my experience any type of Ph drifts down were always bad bacteria taken hold(instead of adding ph up) try fixing your problem with some type of compost tea. when you seen the swing down halt then go up sounds like bacteria died and your plant started using nutes causing drift up.

What it sounds like

 

[lordjin]

Guys its been my experience any type of Ph drifts down were always bad bacteria taken hold(instead of adding ph up) try fixing your problem with some type of compost tea. when you seen the swing down halt then go up sounds like bacteria died and your plant started using nutes causing drift up.

What it sounds like

The compost tea destablilized my res even further.

 

[dp sux]

Then clean everything with bleach and run DM zone or H202 one of the 2 has to work(dont just leave it the way it is)................


Meaning either go the steril route with Dutch Master Zone or Give it a min for the tea to come to life w/ out disenfectent in water.
One of the two will eventualy work(it aint gonna be gone overnight with tea though steril prolly will)

Guy name Hiesenberg has good open thread that mite be of use to you go check it out.......title DWC SLIME CURE AKA HOW TO BREW COMPOST TEA............

 

[Kingrow1]

The compost tea destablilized my res even further.

Yep and the reason for the low pH swings too most likely/definatly. Anything that gets hold and grows in the res system will be fusrium and verticulum based and their byproducts are acidic.

Please use H2O2 in the future at the right grade and dosage, is not 50%H2O2 meant to be dosed at 7ml a litre as per the AL-B-Fuct threads where he pretty much say in full on plain english/australian that pH going low is always the case of bacterial and fungal growth in the res system??

Is this simply whats happening here please??? Dose not the baking soda kill the growth of nasties just like H2O2???
Peace

 

[Redoctober]

Well now you guys are scaring me into thinking that I have an infection but I can't see how because I clean my rez and entire system thoroughly after each cycle. It certainly is possible that the pH drifts are due to some kind of bacteria or fungus but how could I confirm this? I was thinking about incorporating H2O2 but I believe Dutch Master says not to use it with their nutrients so I don't know if I can test it out.

 

[lordjin]

Then clean everything with bleach and run DM zone or H202 one of the 2 has to work(dont just leave it the way it is)................


Meaning either go the steril route with Dutch Master Zone or Give it a min for the tea to come to life w/ out disenfectent in water.
One of the two will eventualy work(it aint gonna be gone overnight with tea though steril prolly will)

Guy name Hiesenberg has good open thread that mite be of use to you go check it out.......title DWC SLIME CURE AKA HOW TO BREW COMPOST TEA............

My plants look great and I see no sign of problems, so there is nothing wrong imo. I'll do my usual weekly flush routine and let the system purge itself. I assure you, nothing nasty can grow in my res. I don't know what root slime looks like, feels like, or smells like because I've never had it.

I'm gonna pin my ph drift on something else. I'm using enzymatics too, that could be playing a part in the drift.

 

[Redoctober]

lordjin, I feel the same way...I see no overt signs of infection anywhere. My roots and plants both look very healthy. So do my clones which are in a completely separate system. Both have the same pH drift problem, so I am going to say for now, that it is the nutrients. I don't even have any organics. I'm running as clean a system as you could ever want. Just RO water with GH flora series micro, grow, and bloom which are super clean nutes. Has anyone else heard about those dolomite lime balls that nick17gar referenced in his post on the first page of this thread? Or any other product that helps keep pH stable?

 

[lordjin]

lordjin, I feel the same way...I see no overt signs of infection anywhere. My roots and plants both look very healthy. So do my clones which are in a completely separate system. Both have the same pH drift problem, so I am going to say for now, that it is the nutrients. I don't even have any organics. I'm running as clean a system as you could ever want. Just RO water with GH flora series micro, grow, and bloom which are super clean nutes. Has anyone else heard about those dolomite lime balls that nick17gar referenced in his post on the first page of this thread? Or any other product that helps keep pH stable?

Dude, don't worry about drifts in readings if your plants look good. Rule number one: We only worry and think about doing something different when our plants start looking bad! After eight successfull grows with various strains, I'm not about to start running around like a chicken with its head cut off because my ph is shifting. My plants look awesome and smell even better... so why should I worry?

Plus all the other posters, God bless 'em, are visualizing other peoples' grows based on photos and often questionable descriptions. there's no way any of these guys posting advice on this thread can know every detail about your grow system or mine or your techniques or mine. For example, these guys didn't know I was using an enzymatic root enhancer before advising me to flush with hydrogen peroxide.

My system is incredibly robust and active. I have 45L per minute of oxy pumping into my 10 gallon res. I have a dedicated external chiller line that keeps my water frosty. I have an external float switch activated auto-topper tank that refreshes my main res if the water level drops even slightly. I use RO water that's under 10ppm. In addition, I change my water every week without fail, giving my res a 30 minute flush with ph'd ro in between. My roots are light in color, robost, and have no slime whatsoever when I touch them.

I'm thinking it's my use of enzymes that might be contributing to it. I'm going to replace the carbon and sediment elements on my RO filter, and switch to the AN brand of enzymatic root enhancer. I'll be starting my flower cycle this weekend.

Don't sweat it if your grow looks great.

 

[dp sux]

I only got envolved cause I know wild ph swings are detremental I didnt visualize anything
dnt just take my word throw up a post about wild ph swings especialy down..

Enzyme can cause but I never seen it not stabalize fairly quick...........

 

[Kingrow1]

Plus all the other posters, God bless 'em, are visualizing other peoples' grows based on photos and often questionable descriptions. there's no way any of these guys posting advice on this thread can know every detail about your grow system or mine or your techniques or mine. For example, these guys didn't know I was using an enzymatic root enhancer before advising me to flush with hydrogen peroxide.

No i dont, just use canna and H2O2 and do it like the pros and as for visualizations of grows i dont need to visualize nothing! Its all written out in Als threads, take a look and read if your a little short sighted of the fact that Rollitup is the greatest resource site on the web, get real guys i learnt what i know from the master -

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/399206-its-fuct-world-65.html

Absolutly no consideration of what i said and no more the knowledgeable! Post 650 might start you of then read the rest of his thread and all his other threads. As always good luck and i hope you eventually get the actual info your looking for. Peace

 

[lordjin]

I only got envolved cause I know wild ph swings are detremental I didnt visualize anything
dnt just take my word throw up a post about wild ph swings especialy down..

Enzyme can cause but I never seen it not stabalize fairly quick...........

Dude, don't you think I know wild ph swings are to be taken as a negative rather than a positive?

But What I've been learning the more I grow is that specific situations can arise involving strain / environment interaction that don't fall neatly into any of the established explanations of cause and effect.

I could put a up a post that says my ph is dropping and I'll just get all the same responses telling me to flush with hyrogen peroxide or something. What's the point in that since I already know it isn't root rot caused by bad bacteria?

 

[lordjin]

No i dont, just use canna and H2O2 and do it like the pros and as for visualizations of grows i dont need to visualize nothing! Its all written out in Als threads, take a look and read if your a little short sighted of the fact that Rollitup is the greatest resource site on the web, get real guys i learnt what i know from the master -

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/399206-its-fuct-world-65.html

Absolutly no consideration of what i said and no more the knowledgeable! Post 650 might start you of then read the rest of his thread and all his other threads. As always good luck and i hope you eventually get the actual info your looking for. Peace

No disrespect to Al, but not every situation can be covered by a blanket explanation. Even if it is Al's.

I learned what I know from doing.

 

[Kingrow1]

No disrespect to Al, but not every situation can be covered by a blanket explanation. Even if it is Al's.

I learned what I know from doing.

He even quotes this himself, he problem shoots by checking every variable and making it right! That is the way, the dude uses one grow, one bloom fert, H2O2, the right temps and big ass lights and out grows every one. I think id rather read his threads and focus my problem solving on exactly how he dose it, dose not every grow he comments on show vast improvement in a very short time? He even questions the needs for enzymes and other additives in hydro.

He wrote these threads exactly for people like the OP and his situation, infact maybe the OP can get a verdict from him, he still answers questions and problems?? Peace