AeroJunkie's High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS)

Trichy Bastard · Jan 15, 2012

PetFlora said:
When you begin with RO, YOU control all the elements. Who knows how much Ca is in tap, and in what form? Even worse, many municipalities recycle their water, so you wind up with all kinds of residues from pharmaceuticals that were flushed. You simply buy a nute that has CaMg in it (DM) or buy a CaMg+ supplement.

Max veg ~ 600 flwr ~800

I don't believe any recycled water is ever used for potable water, just for watering public landscaping and stuff. But the pharmaceuicals get into the water table as it leeches from the dumps, etc- getting a r.o. filter is awesome for removing any worrisome chemicals...

Trichy Bastard · Jan 15, 2012

dickkhead said:
I did start in RO water n have been using sensi cal mag. but sense I used tap I cut it in half. And when I went to charge my acc it took 5 gall to charge it then I put another 5 in the res. my RO system only has a 2gallin storage tank so as pet flora said in tb thread I think I'm going to add a booster pump to get a Constant supply of RO water. That's the only reason I used tap cause the RO ran out

My tank only hold 2 gallons as well, but what I do is use 5 gallon water bottles, and connect some clear tubing that snugly fits on the r.o. spout, and leads into the 5 gallon bottles. it takes draining the tank a couple times to refill a bottle, but I just start the process the same day I empty the bottles, and it's always there when I need it for next time as it only takes a few hours to produce 10 gallons of r.o. water (but my tap is 79 degrees and 90psi luckily- about optimum for making r.o.).

DIYer · Jan 15, 2012

dickkhead said:
here ya go folks u tell me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x_eicSEEj8

IMO, your roots don't look so good. But then again i don't know what your growing. Those ladies are pretty small, (no offense) and I've found a lot of variance in root mass from strain to strain. That being said though i still question your misters in there. Id just think if they were really misting, and not spritzing bigger droplets of water, you would have a lot more root mass below, and that's always going to mean more above. If you're going to post videos to youtube i hope you know they logged your ip when you uploaded it. Are you legal? I am,.. was thinking about doing a video journal of my hpa setup to get input. Just some advice,.. next time turn the camera sideways since you got 1080i capability, and show everyone how your misters look when they go off. I like to get my head in the bucket and see whats happening. There is so much more to talk about in just an average HPA setup, makes me really think video is the better way to go, you learn so much more about a growers setup in just 30 seconds then you do in a few forum posts sometimes, just wish it was safer for all to upload.

dickkhead · Jan 15, 2012

DIYer said:
IMO, your roots don't look so good. But then again i don't know what your growing. Those ladies are pretty small, (no offense) and I've found a lot of variance in root mass from strain to strain. That being said though i still question your misters in there. Id just think if they were really misting, and not spritzing bigger droplets of water, you would have a lot more root mass below, and that's always going to mean more above. If you're going to post videos to youtube i hope you know they logged your ip when you uploaded it. Are you legal? I am,.. was thinking about doing a video journal of my hpa setup to get input. Just some advice,.. next time turn the camera sideways since you got 1080i capability, and show everyone how your misters look when they go off. I like to get my head in the bucket and see whats happening. There is so much more to talk about in just an average HPA setup, makes me really think video is the better way to go, you learn so much more about a growers setup in just 30 seconds then you do in a few forum posts sometimes, just wish it was safer for all to upload.

yea i know im still working on dialing my setup! but it was a bitch to get them going so im happy there still alive. yea im legal but I dont have a web Ip anyways I run off linksys anyways

Trichy Bastard · Jan 15, 2012

dickkhead said:
yea i know im still working on dialing my setup! but it was a bitch to get them going so im happy there still alive. yea im legal but I dont have a web Ip anyways I run off linksys anyways

Well, knowing your background a little more than DIYer might, I think you're doing pretty good for a newer system to yourself. He is correct that there are even better days to come however. I too wish there were safer ways to upload stuff, and really enjoy watching others pictures and videos. Umm, if you're on the web, you have an ipaddress, the linksys (router I assume) is handed one from the internet provider you use. If you are using the neighbor's wireless signal, they still know you're within a few houses of that residence. Not trying to make you paranoid or anything. There is probably the best solution I know of called the TOR browser project, google about it and it will explain how safe and confidential it is-free too, the government probably uses it themselves for secure and anonymous connections. It is slower however, because it anonymously forwards pieces of your transmissions from many different places in the world, and pieces them back together again, but none of the pieces know where the others came from, it's pretty ingenious.

dickkhead · Jan 15, 2012

Trichy Bastard said:
Well, knowing your background a little more than DIYer might, I think you're doing pretty good for a newer system to yourself. He is correct that there are even better days to come however. I too wish there were safer ways to upload stuff, and really enjoy watching others pictures and videos. Umm, if you're on the web, you have an ipaddress, the linksys (router I assume) is handed one from the internet provider you use. If you are using the neighbor's wireless signal, they still know you're within a few houses of that residence. Not trying to make you paranoid or anything. There is probably the best solution I know of called the TOR browser project, google about it and it will explain how safe and confidential it is-free too, the government probably uses it themselves for secure and anonymous connections. It is slower however, because it anonymously forwards pieces of your transmissions from many different places in the world, and pieces them back together again, but none of the pieces know where the others came from, it's pretty ingenious.

so if i upload pics on here theyll have a ip address?

Mike Young · Jan 15, 2012

Everything you do on the internet can be traced back to you. I would delete any vids on youtube that include shots of your girls. System/room shots I don't worry about too much about. Root pics, etc... I think posting plants is risky. People disappear from this site. I know of 5 or so that I can think of. I would love to be able to keep a video journal of everything, but it doesn't seem worth it.

aerojunkie · Jan 16, 2012

So here are some pics of my root problems. I'm posting the average looking roots as some are better and some are worse depending on placement within the chambers.

These are the roots in my clone chamber prior to placing them in the veg chamber. They are decent I suppose, I'll try not to make any excuses for their condition.

These next shots are after they have been placed in the new chamber for approximately 1-3 days. The short one on the end is a fresh clone placed into the chamber, its condition immediately went south within 2 days.

I hope you can see the difference in the root diameter and condition from before and after. Its as if they had to adapt to a new environment immediately. The canopy didn't suffer too much but their roots obviously did.

aerojunkie · Jan 16, 2012

So here are my recent clones. They have been in the chamber for 8 days now with 100% success. Quite a few sprouted roots within about 4-5 days but the last few just sprouted within the last 24-48 hours.

Here is a pic of my humidome. I removed a few net pots to allow mist to travel into the humidome area and maintain 100% RH without allowing the plants to transpire much, if at all. My method for cutting was the same as described in TB's HP Aero 2011 thread. I'll copy and paste it in this thread.

Here are a couple of shots of roots actually growing above the chamber on the stalks of my clones.

aerojunkie · Jan 16, 2012

Here is my rooting technique. I did not use a heating element in this recent batch

Now This is my method, there is always someone out there who will disagree or expand. To cut clones I use a combination of sterilized pharmaceutical scissors and a new sterilized razor blade. Before you cut anything make sure you have a min of three nodes on the cutting and have a cup of RO water on hand along with a new paper towel to place your tools on. Using scissors I cut right above the 4th or 5th node making sure to have as much stem as possible below the 3rd or 4th node then immediately place them in my cup of RO water to avoid an air embolism. Depending on the amount of cuttings you take you can use multiple cups or bowels of RO water to place the cuttings in prior to dipping them in hormone solution. Try not to get the leaves too wet. When you are ready to place cuttings in your cloner, individually slice the base of each cutting @ a 45-65 degree angle and immediately dip the cutting into your hormone solution. I prefer gel as it remains on the cutting longer. Now at this point I trim approximately 3/8ths of the the total length of the leaves off the cutting on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th nodes using my scissors (if the 2nd node looks too small, don't worry about trimming the leaves). Be sure to leave 5/8ths of the total length in tact. This will prevent too much transpiration during the cloning stage and still keep the cutting alive. Immediately place your cutting in the cloner. I recycle RO water and add a low amount of rooting solution. I also place an Aquarium heater inside a secondary water basin within my 2x4 botanicare tray/chamber and try to maintain an 80 degree temp. I use a 4' 6 bulb T5 with a combo of warm and cool bulbs staggered. I highly recommend a humidome. Otherwise, simply take transparent plastic cups from the grocery store, and place them over your cutting making sure you have a good seal. Lather rinse and repeat.

PetFlora · Jan 16, 2012

Trichy Bastard said:
I don't believe any recycled water is ever used for potable water, just for watering public landscaping and stuff. But the pharmaceuicals get into the water table as it leeches from the dumps, etc- getting a r.o. filter is awesome for removing any worrisome chemicals...

Unfortunately, you are wrong. You are thinking of grey water, which is semi-cleaned and used for watering lawns. One of my friends owns Aquathin (international mfg of water treatment systems) He alerted me to this ~ a year ago. Prepare to be totally disgusted:

" Further, the Orange County Water District, located in in Orange County, and in other locations throughout the world such as Singapore, water is given more advanced treatments and is used indirectly for drinking.[SUP]"[/SUP]

Report: Treated Wastewater Just as Safe to Drink as Existing Water Supplies

By Rachel Bogart | Yahoo! Contributor Network – Thu, Jan 12, 2012

A report by the National Resource Council has concluded that treated wastewater is no more detrimental to human health than water from existing supplies, according to USA Today. The report also details that in some cases, treated wastewater might be safer to drink in addition to being a more viable solution as the U.S. population continues to increase.
Similarly, the reuse of wastewater will become more and more crucial, especially in areas marked by water scarcity like Texas and Southern California. With the release of this report, here are some facts about water use in the U.S. and projects that are adopting the practice of turning wastewater into potable water:"

Trichy Bastard · Jan 16, 2012

aerojunkie said:
So here are some pics of my root problems. I'm posting the average looking roots as some are better and some are worse depending on placement within the chambers.

These are the roots in my clone chamber prior to placing them in the veg chamber. They are decent I suppose, I'll try not to make any excuses for their condition.

View attachment 2000505 View attachment 2000505 View attachment 2000506 View attachment 2000507 View attachment 2000508 View attachment 2000510

These next shots are after they have been placed in the new chamber for approximately 1-3 days. The short one on the end is a fresh clone placed into the chamber, its condition immediately went south within 2 days.

View attachment 2000511 View attachment 2000512 View attachment 2000513 View attachment 2000514 View attachment 2000515

I hope you can see the difference in the root diameter and condition from before and after. Its as if they had to adapt to a new environment immediately. The canopy didn't suffer too much but their roots obviously did.

Strange, they look as if withering from dehydration, but one one of them I clearly see the droplets of water. Do you think they are fluctuating between dry and soaked somehow? Thanks for sharing bro, we'll get to the bottom of this with you hopefully soon!

Trichy Bastard · Jan 16, 2012

aerojunkie said:
So here are my recent clones. They have been in the chamber for 8 days now with 100% success. Quite a few sprouted roots within about 4-5 days but the last few just sprouted within the last 24-48 hours.

Here is a pic of my humidome. I removed a few net pots to allow mist to travel into the humidome area and maintain 100% RH without allowing the plants to transpire much, if at all. My method for cutting was the same as described in TB's HP Aero 2011 thread. I'll copy and paste it in this thread.

View attachment 2000516 View attachment 2000517 View attachment 2000518 View attachment 2000519

Here are a couple of shots of roots actually growing above the chamber on the stalks of my clones.

View attachment 2000520 View attachment 2000521

Weird how the roots are growing way up there, perhaps from the humidome? What kinda rooting solution you using, it's potent man! lol
Another question, how drastically different is your nute solution between cloner and chamber?

Trichy Bastard · Jan 16, 2012

PetFlora said:
Unfortunately, you are wrong. You are thinking of grey water, which is semi-cleaned and used for watering lawns. One of my friends owns Aquathin (international mfg of water treatment systems) He alerted me to this ~ a year ago. Prepare to be totally disgusted:

" Further, the Orange County Water District, located in in Orange County, and in other locations throughout the world such as Singapore, water is given more advanced treatments and is used indirectly for drinking.[SUP]"[/SUP]

Report: Treated Wastewater Just as Safe to Drink as Existing Water Supplies

By Rachel Bogart | Yahoo! Contributor Network – Thu, Jan 12, 2012

A report by the National Resource Council has concluded that treated wastewater is no more detrimental to human health than water from existing supplies, according to USA Today. The report also details that in some cases, treated wastewater might be safer to drink in addition to being a more viable solution as the U.S. population continues to increase.
Similarly, the reuse of wastewater will become more and more crucial, especially in areas marked by water scarcity like Texas and Southern California. With the release of this report, here are some facts about water use in the U.S. and projects that are adopting the practice of turning wastewater into potable water:"

That is gross, but scientifically, it should be no biggie. I mean all water on the planet has been recycled by mother nature's distillation, I am sure I've drank dinosaur and Einstein's pee... I don't trust the possibility of some sort of malfunction where the untreated water might accidentally seep into the treated water, at least oceans, clouds, thousands of feet of atmosphere and sunlight really renew the water in an infallible way. What's really incredible to me is how many people on the planet must be having so many kids still. I mean for the population to keep growing people have to have more than 2 kids. If everyone had only 2 kids the population would shrink, as the 2 offspring would only be replacements for their parents, and some will die due to accidents and disease, actually causing the population to shrink. In this day and age it makes more sense to only have a couple kids that you can raise with quality, rather than trying to spread your time and money amongst so many other kids. haha, just my opinion, sorry for being so off topic AJ...

mrflamboynt · Jan 16, 2012

Trichy Bastard said:
That is gross, but scientifically, it should be no biggie. I mean all water on the planet has been recycled by mother nature's distillation, I am sure I've drank dinosaur and Einstein's pee... I don't trust the possibility of some sort of malfunction where the untreated water might accidentally seep into the treated water, at least oceans, clouds, thousands of feet of atmosphere and sunlight really renew the water in an infallible way. What's really incredible to me is how many people on the planet must be having so many kids still. I mean for the population to keep growing people have to have more than 2 kids. If everyone had only 2 kids the population would shrink, as the 2 offspring would only be replacements for their parents, and some will die due to accidents and disease, actually causing the population to shrink. In this day and age it makes more sense to only have a couple kids that you can raise with quality, rather than trying to spread your time and money amongst so many other kids. haha, just my opinion, sorry for being so off topic AJ...

apologies for off topic, but-

i have tried this "2 kid" method...... and as i made plans, god was laughing in my face! i got 4 blessed kids now (from 3 pregnancies). also if we were to try to limit how many kids we could have, there would be a lot more dead babies in the rivers, mostly girls cuz everyone would want boys to carry on their seed..... it took surgery to end the possibility of procreation, for my wife and i.... also, water that comes directly from mother nature, is still just as likely to be contaminated by man....

DIYer · Jan 16, 2012

Hey aerojunkie,.. if you're just moving a plant from place A to place B, and its roots don't fair near as well in place B, i can't think of any other possible problem then it is not getting the same amount of water in its new home, or like TB said the cycle is different and their drying out tween mists. I had problems like this back when i was using more sprinkler type 'misting' heads. Not sure of your setup but coverage needs to be even steven for all root masses in multi plant homes.

aerojunkie · Jan 16, 2012

I agree that it is probably a combination of incorrect droplet size along with uneven distribution of mist. However, the only reason to second guess this hypothesis is the fact that I can over saturate the chamber to the extent that I have plenty of water coalescing into droplets on the roots themselves every 3 minutes essentially creating an NFT hybrid system. This leads me to believe that there is a possibility of air pruning going on in the chamber.

I started my EC out at 5-600 microSiemens as that is what I was running in my cloner for more mature plants. After noticing the issue I raised the EC to 750-800 us/cm in both chambers in an effort to resolve the problem. The plants did fine in the cloner @ these levels but obviously the problem remained in the veg chamber.

dickkhead · Jan 16, 2012

aerojunkie said:
Here is my rooting technique. I did not use a heating element in this recent batch

Now This is my method, there is always someone out there who will disagree or expand. To cut clones I use a combination of sterilized pharmaceutical scissors and a new sterilized razor blade. Before you cut anything make sure you have a min of three nodes on the cutting and have a cup of RO water on hand along with a new paper towel to place your tools on. Using scissors I cut right above the 4th or 5th node making sure to have as much stem as possible below the 3rd or 4th node then immediately place them in my cup of RO water to avoid an air embolism. Depending on the amount of cuttings you take you can use multiple cups or bowels of RO water to place the cuttings in prior to dipping them in hormone solution. Try not to get the leaves too wet. When you are ready to place cuttings in your cloner, individually slice the base of each cutting @ a 45-65 degree angle and immediately dip the cutting into your hormone solution. I prefer gel as it remains on the cutting longer. Now at this point I trim approximately 3/8ths of the the total length of the leaves off the cutting on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th nodes using my scissors (if the 2nd node looks too small, don't worry about trimming the leaves). Be sure to leave 5/8ths of the total length in tact. This will prevent too much transpiration during the cloning stage and still keep the cutting alive. Immediately place your cutting in the cloner. I recycle RO water and add a low amount of rooting solution. I also place an Aquarium heater inside a secondary water basin within my 2x4 botanicare tray/chamber and try to maintain an 80 degree temp. I use a 4' 6 bulb T5 with a combo of warm and cool bulbs staggered. I highly recommend a humidome. Otherwise, simply take transparent plastic cups from the grocery store, and place them over your cutting making sure you have a good seal. Lather rinse and repeat.

what kinda root solution do you use?

Trichy Bastard said:
That is gross, but scientifically, it should be no biggie. I mean all water on the planet has been recycled by mother nature's distillation, I am sure I've drank dinosaur and Einstein's pee... I don't trust the possibility of some sort of malfunction where the untreated water might accidentally seep into the treated water, at least oceans, clouds, thousands of feet of atmosphere and sunlight really renew the water in an infallible way. What's really incredible to me is how many people on the planet must be having so many kids still. I mean for the population to keep growing people have to have more than 2 kids. If everyone had only 2 kids the population would shrink, as the 2 offspring would only be replacements for their parents, and some will die due to accidents and disease, actually causing the population to shrink. In this day and age it makes more sense to only have a couple kids that you can raise with quality, rather than trying to spread your time and money amongst so many other kids. haha, just my opinion, sorry for being so off topic AJ...

its the 3rd world countries who have multiple kids in american its more common to have 2 kids where as africa or islam theres no bc and they have 12 kids!!

aerojunkie · Jan 16, 2012

Trichy Bastard said:
Weird how the roots are growing way up there, perhaps from the humidome? What kinda rooting solution you using, it's potent man! lol
Another question, how drastically different is your nute solution between cloner and chamber?

The roots growing up top are definitely from the humidome. The rooting hormone is 2 year old Clonex that has changed colors from purple to dark grey. I normally leave my Clonex and H2O2 in the refrigerator but this bottle I found in an old misc hydro box last month and I figured I'd see if it was still good. Worked fine imo.

BTW, I don't think its the quantity of children that's an issue, as much as the quality of parents raising them. In the great debate of Nature vs Nurture I tend to veer toward Nurturing or lack thereof being the more detrimental aspect of a child's development. The more self-absorbed a parent is imo the less ability they have to nurture others, including their own children. I don't think its always a lack of desire or motivation on the parents part, I personally think is a psychological inability to do so. Good parents are difficult to find in this age and society will benefit more from the decent ones raising numerous good willed, intelligent, charitable children than it would limiting all people to 2 kids.

PetFlora · Jan 17, 2012

Brain Fart or Brain dead?

I have tried this before as a back up to my HPA (to keep pod damp and oxygenated), but now taking it to another level. It may replace the need for air assist, which seems to have it's own set of issues.

I am experimenting with larger diaphragm pump (15L/min, which is too small, probably need ~4Xs that) with 4 air stones in a water bath/tray inside the pod that is slightly smaller than the perimeter of the pod. This to provide maximum surface area to create oxygenated bubbles.

So how do you think it would work to have a water tray inside the pod running 24/7. Above it (but below the mist heads) would be a large semi-flat surface to catch the falling nutes. I think it should be V shaped to allow the oxygenated air to rise above it. It would be slightly smaller than the inside perimeter of the pod, allowing the oxygenated air to reach the root area keeping the area/roots humid, but not wet. I would expect the flat surface to catch >90% of the nutes, and be tilted towards the drain hole to carry the falling nutes to waste, and not be captured in the tray.

By itself, it could also be a 21st Century simple aero system, potentially vastly superior to DWC

Anybody?

AeroJunkie's High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS)

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