AeroJunkie's High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS)

tree farmer · Jan 11, 2012

aj have you ever figured out your brown root problem you encountered from going from the cloner to the main rig? also have you ever been able to get thru a full round in the main rig with some healthy roots and plants. i havent been around the threads much lately because im just so busy running current projects but was wondering if anyone has saw or heard from ATOMizer on any thread or fourmn. SAd to see him disappear since he was such a help to so many and it seems so out of character for him to just fall away.

i hear alot of discussion about timing cycles which i feel is so irrelavant as no 2 systems are even remotely close. this 1ml per 100l figure is a theoretical number to get an idea of how many nozzles needed to fill an adequate space in a reseasonable amount of time but man ive had beatiful fuzz feather roots where i wasnt anywhere near this number. if a young root is brown it is generally because it has dried out at some point and usually doesnt recover. now a large root system that is brown is almost certainly overmisted. IMHO mist heavily on young root systems until the topside is looking good and the bottom has some mass to it then you can begin to try and dial it in. Mikes recent pics with the droplets at the tips of the roots IMO is perfect for those little root masses. as things progress then you can dial back without risking drying out the small roots.

Im glad you guys are continuing your push and i hope to get back to my AA rig soon but when your reaching 2.5 to3 per 1k its hard to change especially after a long expensive summer

DIYer · Jan 11, 2012

aerojunkie said:
Do you have an EC meter? These hanna meters are convenient because both the PH and Ec probes are in a single unit. Surely its debatable as to the longevity and worth of a PH meter by itself, but how do you go about measuring EC? I know I will eventually need to replace my unit but as far as I'm concerned, its just the nature of the game I'm in.

As it turns out i do not have an EC meter, found i stopped even worrying about EC a long time ago. Ironically i feel i would need to start a lengthy grow journal to fully explain how i got back to more simple ways of growing, all while be it in what most would deem a complicated HP aero setup, but bottom line i believe in worrying about EC about as much as PF believes in ph test strips :roll:

PPM's show me how much I'm feeding them, the indicator strips i linked show me pH within .1 accuracy IMO, and my ladies grow just fine.

DIYer · Jan 11, 2012

tree farmer said:
i hear alot of discussion about timing cycles which i feel is so irrelavant as no 2 systems are even remotely close. this 1ml per 100l figure is a theoretical number to get an idea of how many nozzles needed to fill an adequate space in a reseasonable amount of time but man ive had beatiful fuzz feather roots where i wasnt anywhere near this number.

I completely agree, i use to get bogged down with such math at one point too, you learn its pointless, get your head in the system and see whats going on a lot at first, listen to what the plants telling you simply more then anything, don't over think this growing a weed thing.

tree farmer said:
but when your reaching 2.5 to3 per 1k its hard to change especially after a long expensive summer

interesting,.. I've recently been figuring all that for my 14 plant grow. Is 2.5-3oz per plant under 1000 total watts what you meant there? Is that what you're pulling?

aerojunkie · Jan 11, 2012

tree farmer said:
aj have you ever figured out your brown root problem you encountered from going from the cloner to the main rig? also have you ever been able to get thru a full round in the main rig with some healthy roots and plants. i havent been around the threads much lately because im just so busy running current projects but was wondering if anyone has saw or heard from ATOMizer on any thread or fourmn. SAd to see him disappear since he was such a help to so many and it seems so out of character for him to just fall away.

i hear alot of discussion about timing cycles which i feel is so irrelavant as no 2 systems are even remotely close. this 1ml per 100l figure is a theoretical number to get an idea of how many nozzles needed to fill an adequate space in a reseasonable amount of time but man ive had beatiful fuzz feather roots where i wasnt anywhere near this number. if a young root is brown it is generally because it has dried out at some point and usually doesnt recover. now a large root system that is brown is almost certainly overmisted. IMHO mist heavily on young root systems until the topside is looking good and the bottom has some mass to it then you can begin to try and dial it in. Mikes recent pics with the droplets at the tips of the roots IMO is perfect for those little root masses. as things progress then you can dial back without risking drying out the small roots.

Im glad you guys are continuing your push and i hope to get back to my AA rig soon but when your reaching 2.5 to3 per 1k its hard to change especially after a long expensive summer

Haven't fully figured it out yet. When adding a new clone with great solid thick roots I completely overmisted to avoid browning. Even with this precaution and noticeable saturation on the root system the root tips immediately begin to brown. The most interesting part about it is that the root system immediately "thins" out. If I compare the thickness of my cloned roots to my larger chamber roots its like comparing thick spaghetti to angel hair pasta. I am in the process of cloning about 25 or so plants and shutting down my larger chamber for repairs. I am waiting until my clones take root before I completely shut it down.

Atomizer is still around and chimes in every now and then. I understand his logic behind 1ml/100l formula however I agree with you. I can overmist in my clone chamber but still get hair roots depending on placement of plants. I am going to try a few techniques here shortly to see if I can determine the "root" of my root issues. I'll be sure to update the post.

aerojunkie · Jan 11, 2012

DIYer said:
As it turns out i do not have an EC meter, found i stopped even worrying about EC a long time ago. Ironically i feel i would need to start a lengthy grow journal to fully explain how i got back to more simple ways of growing, all while be it in what most would deem a complicated HP aero setup, but bottom line i believe in worrying about EC about as much as PF believes in ph test strips
PPM's show me how much I'm feeding them, the indicator strips i linked show me pH within .1 accuracy IMO, and my ladies grow just fine.

What do you use to measure PPM?

dickkhead · Jan 11, 2012

tree farmer said:
aj have you ever figured out your brown root problem you encountered from going from the cloner to the main rig? also have you ever been able to get thru a full round in the main rig with some healthy roots and plants. i havent been around the threads much lately because im just so busy running current projects but was wondering if anyone has saw or heard from ATOMizer on any thread or fourmn. SAd to see him disappear since he was such a help to so many and it seems so out of character for him to just fall away.

i hear alot of discussion about timing cycles which i feel is so irrelavant as no 2 systems are even remotely close. this 1ml per 100l figure is a theoretical number to get an idea of how many nozzles needed to fill an adequate space in a reseasonable amount of time but man ive had beatiful fuzz feather roots where i wasnt anywhere near this number. if a young root is brown it is generally because it has dried out at some point and usually doesnt recover. now a large root system that is brown is almost certainly overmisted. IMHO mist heavily on young root systems until the topside is looking good and the bottom has some mass to it then you can begin to try and dial it in. Mikes recent pics with the droplets at the tips of the roots IMO is perfect for those little root masses. as things progress then you can dial back without risking drying out the small roots.

Im glad you guys are continuing your push and i hope to get back to my AA rig soon but when your reaching 2.5 to3 per 1k its hard to change especially after a long expensive summer

are you going to post your build? would love to learn your nutrient regimen ( u still using GH) and setup to be able to pull the same weight! what size are your chambers and how long are you vegging for?

Mike Young · Jan 11, 2012

tree farmer said:
aj have you ever figured out your brown root problem you encountered from going from the cloner to the main rig? also have you ever been able to get thru a full round in the main rig with some healthy roots and plants. i havent been around the threads much lately because im just so busy running current projects but was wondering if anyone has saw or heard from ATOMizer on any thread or fourmn. SAd to see him disappear since he was such a help to so many and it seems so out of character for him to just fall away.

i hear alot of discussion about timing cycles which i feel is so irrelavant as no 2 systems are even remotely close. this 1ml per 100l figure is a theoretical number to get an idea of how many nozzles needed to fill an adequate space in a reseasonable amount of time but man ive had beatiful fuzz feather roots where i wasnt anywhere near this number. if a young root is brown it is generally because it has dried out at some point and usually doesnt recover. now a large root system that is brown is almost certainly overmisted. IMHO mist heavily on young root systems until the topside is looking good and the bottom has some mass to it then you can begin to try and dial it in. Mikes recent pics with the droplets at the tips of the roots IMO is perfect for those little root masses. as things progress then you can dial back without risking drying out the small roots.

Im glad you guys are continuing your push and i hope to get back to my AA rig soon but when your reaching 2.5 to3 per 1k its hard to change especially after a long expensive summer

Good to hear from one of the founding fathers, lol. I'll try not to let your comment go to my head, but it is nice to know I'm doing something right. I don't like to over-complicate things, and adjust my mist times according to what my roots tell me. Part of the reason I chose the retractable bags, for easy root/nozzle access.

AJ: When's the last time you heard from atomizer? It's been awhile since I have. TB said he's not received replies to his PM's...

aerojunkie · Jan 11, 2012

Mike Young said:
Good to hear from one of the founding fathers, lol. I'll try not to let your comment go to my head, but it is nice to know I'm doing something right. I don't like to over-complicate things, and adjust my mist times according to what my roots tell me. Part of the reason I chose the retractable bags, for easy root/nozzle access.

AJ: When's the last time you heard from atomizer? It's been awhile since I have. TB said he's not received replies to his PM's...

I haven't, I just figured TF was asking about atomizers involvement within the last couple months. I wasn't aware he was currently AWOL.

tree farmer · Jan 12, 2012

DIYer said:
I completely agree, i use to get bogged down with such math at one point too, you learn its pointless, get your head in the system and see whats going on a lot at first, listen to what the plants telling you simply more then anything, don't over think this growing a weed thing.

interesting,.. I've recently been figuring all that for my 14 plant grow. Is 2.5-3oz per plant under 1000 total watts what you meant there? Is that what you're pulling?

i meant 2.5-3 lb. im not running a aero system right now because i spent all summer working on getting off the grid and it turned out to be very expensive but best move i ever made.

tree farmer · Jan 12, 2012

aerojunkie said:
Haven't fully figured it out yet. When adding a new clone with great solid thick roots I completely overmisted to avoid browning. Even with this precaution and noticeable saturation on the root system the root tips immediately begin to brown. The most interesting part about it is that the root system immediately "thins" out. If I compare the thickness of my cloned roots to my larger chamber roots its like comparing thick spaghetti to angel hair pasta. I am in the process of cloning about 25 or so plants and shutting down my larger chamber for repairs. I am waiting until my clones take root before I completely shut it down.

Atomizer is still around and chimes in every now and then. I understand his logic behind 1ml/100l formula however I agree with you. I can overmist in my clone chamber but still get hair roots depending on placement of plants. I am going to try a few techniques here shortly to see if I can determine the "root" of my root issues. I'll be sure to update the post.

the only thing i can think of is that the droplet size might not be in the correct range. this could explain the thinning of the roots as if you have ever seen fogponics roots they are thin. are the solution and air pressures the same from the cloner to the main rig(you said you use the same nozzles) as different settings will produce different droplet sizes. the droplet size and coverage could be adequate for the cloner as im assumming its a much smaller container but then not be adequate in the bigger chamber. it could possibly also be a coverage issue where in the cloner you have adequate coverage and not in the main rig. im just guessing at some possibilities but i know from experience just running the test AA rig that when my droplet size was to small i could have total saturation in the chamber where all you saw was mist and nothing grew worth a shit until i increaseed the droplet sizes by varying the air and pressure feeds. the browning of just the root tips is very puzzling and i cant think of what would cause this except undersaturation but you said youve oversaturated and had the same results although its still possible the droplet size wasnt correct.

no. Atomizer seems to have dissappeared all together from at least 4 different websites that i know he posted regularly to and he doesnt answer PMs either so something must have went amiss. he'll be missed he always had an answer you could work with.

Trichy Bastard · Jan 12, 2012

DIYer said:
As it turns out i do not have an EC meter, found i stopped even worrying about EC a long time ago. Ironically i feel i would need to start a lengthy grow journal to fully explain how i got back to more simple ways of growing, all while be it in what most would deem a complicated HP aero setup, but bottom line i believe in worrying about EC about as much as PF believes in ph test strips
PPM's show me how much I'm feeding them, the indicator strips i linked show me pH within .1 accuracy IMO, and my ladies grow just fine.

PPM is just a derivitive of EC in the way a meter works. It conveniently calculates PPM based on EC. If you're using some sort of strips for aquariums to figure TDS, then I think they are not accurate enough for our purposes. Since we don't recirculate in DTW, you could theoretically use precise measurements according to the manufacturer's instructions- but even so, I prefer to check my own measurements. Once I have defined the exact amount of nutes per gallons of water, I feel I don't need the ec meter either, but that amount is always changing with different phases of growth, and for me the meter is an indespensible part of it. I am not doing awesome financially right now, but a meter for $75 bucks didn't feel like a horrible purchase for me.

AJ- when has Atomizer chimed in- did he perhaps PM you? Otherwise he has not posted here or on any other site since October. I too am concerned he is okay. Last he told me he was working on some homemade fireworks, I really hope nothing bad happened!

tree farmer - it's good to hear from you, glad to hear things are doing at least okay with yourself. I am in part to blame for the worry of exact misting because I tried to take every bit of Atomizer's advice to heart, and with his mathmatecal background he was very precise. Anyway, it's good to be reminded again that this is not as demanding as I would have thought. I still think the bio nozzles I got were bad- some of them shot a straight stream out 8 feet, and I know that couldn't be right- the others were lopsided patterns and would have a thick stream somewhere within them. With no other advice I am going to try some red cloudtops, but do you think their mist is too fine? They seem to offer adequate coverage in my chamber fortunately.

PetFlora · Jan 12, 2012

delete delete delete

PetFlora · Jan 12, 2012

DIYer said:
Sure, waste some more money why don't you! lol. You think $20+ solution in a cute bottle is going to keep a device that all manufacturers know is shit, from shitting the bed? For $20 you could buy enough never wrong pH strips for a life time. Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. Or get ready to go down a long ass road of buying products you do not need to grow a freaking weed. You ever stop to think how much pH changes in the wild when it rains? Sorry, but your plants don't give a poop you test pH multiple times a day.

DIYer as far as I am concerned you are becoming obnoxious, sounding oh so superior, and making me out to be oh so stupid. Get over yourself.

Trichy Bastard · Jan 12, 2012

Don't make it into a big deal PF out of respect to AJ if nothing else. DIYer is entitled to his opinions, as long as he doen't try to push them off on everyone else as being superior. The one thing that comes to mind, is if price is the only important aspect, then why not just pop some seeds in the soil and be done with it. I for one didn't put all this energy and money into hpa just to use paper strips lol... I'm sure there is a reason big agricultural companies and labs use electronic meters. They do need to be properly maintained and calibrated to be worth a shit though.

Trichy Bastard · Jan 12, 2012

tree farmer said:
the only thing i can think of is that the droplet size might not be in the correct range. this could explain the thinning of the roots as if you have ever seen fogponics roots they are thin. are the solution and air pressures the same from the cloner to the main rig(you said you use the same nozzles) as different settings will produce different droplet sizes. the droplet size and coverage could be adequate for the cloner as im assumming its a much smaller container but then not be adequate in the bigger chamber. it could possibly also be a coverage issue where in the cloner you have adequate coverage and not in the main rig. im just guessing at some possibilities but i know from experience just running the test AA rig that when my droplet size was to small i could have total saturation in the chamber where all you saw was mist and nothing grew worth a shit until i increaseed the droplet sizes by varying the air and pressure feeds. the browning of just the root tips is very puzzling and i cant think of what would cause this except undersaturation but you said youve oversaturated and had the same results although its still possible the droplet size wasnt correct.

no. Atomizer seems to have dissappeared all together from at least 4 different websites that i know he posted regularly to and he doesnt answer PMs either so something must have went amiss. he'll be missed he always had an answer you could work with.

Hey TF- I'd like your opinion on if it's worth trying to veg my plants in a fogponic setup for a couple weeks, then put into the HPA outside for flower? Reason being is the light here is 12/12 year round outside. I figure the fog would get close to the hp rootstructure and make for an easy transition, and I already have a Dominaero fog setup. Bringing in the aero chamber is not really something I'd want to contend with, my other option would be to make a sort of light enclosed hood I could lower at night and keep them lit for another 6 hours, that way they get real sunlight and are supplemented for only a few hours of artificial to make up the difference and keep them in veg.

DIYer · Jan 12, 2012

PetFlora said:
DIYer as far as I am concerned you are becoming obnoxious, sounding oh so superior, and making me out to be oh so stupid. Get over yourself.

We see it differently dude, i agree to disagree. But the facts are obvious to anyone not already bought in and trying to justify throwing good money after bad, that they wear out too fast to be worth the initial buy. If you took a second to look at the strips i posted a link to, not just claim you don't believe in them, you'd see they test pH from 4-7 only. It's pretty easy for a nickel to be sure within .1 what your pH is, (less you're color blind, lol) what the hell more can anyone want.

DIYer · Jan 12, 2012

tree farmer said:
i meant 2.5-3 lb. im not running a aero system right now because i spent all summer working on getting off the grid and it turned out to be very expensive but best move i ever made.

say again?...
you get 2.5-3lbs from one plant under 1000w total?......

dickkhead · Jan 12, 2012

yes he gets 2.5 - 3 lbs under the 1000. wish youd teach us how you do this TF. if your not doing aero what are you doing to pull that kinda weight? are you going to build another hp aero rig?

DIYer · Jan 12, 2012

umm, if you don't know how he does it, how do you know he does in fact do it dickherad? id need to see one hell of a grow thread proving that kind of yield from just 1000w

dickkhead · Jan 12, 2012

DIYer said:
umm, if you don't know how he does it, how do you know he does in fact do it dickherad? id need to see one hell of a grow thread proving that kind of yield from just 1000w

i doubt hed lie about it the dude has some serious skills! look at his thread in thc farmer the proof is in the puding

AeroJunkie's High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member