A funny conversation.

Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Well said Hep, love every word, hit the spot bro. Man, i am so impressed with you, you've changed so much in the two years ive been on here. I am proud of you in more ways than one bro.

Pad, it means a lot that you took the time to read it, and try to interpret it the best way you could. Very nice touch, i enjoyed reading the response a lot.

CN, i wouldn't consider myself a divider, we are all "brothers and sisters" I would consider myself a seeker of truth, with the understanding that it will never be attained... the closer i get to it, the further it moves away.

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who claim to find it."
"Keep the company of those who seek the truth- run from those who claim to have found it."

-Voltair and Havel i believe.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Zaehet Strife said:
Well said Hep, love every word, hit the spot bro. Man, i am so impressed with you, you've changed so much in the two years ive been on here. I am proud of you in more ways than one bro.

Pad, it means a lot that you took the time to read it, and try to interpret it the best way you could. Very nice touch, i enjoyed reading the response a lot.

CN, i wouldn't consider myself a divider, we are all "brothers and sisters" I would consider myself a seeker of truth, with the understanding that it will never be attained... the closer i get to it, the further it moves away.

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who claim to find it."
"Keep the company of those who seek the truth- run from those who claim to have found it."

-Voltair and Havel i believe.
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By "divider" I wasn't implying anything sociopolitical. However one of the features of our age and place is the analytical mind. It divides and disassembles what it can into components. It's deeply ingrained into our engineering culture: "take it apart; see what makes it tick."

It is an article of my odd individual faith that while we can get a hold of fact, truth is an asymptote, and the exponent gets steep. The harder we try, the more it eludes. Fwiw. cn
 
kpmarine

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
Zahet, it's not you; nor is it the other person you are conversing with. Some people will cling to an ideal and then get offended when you ask them to justify it. It's not an unusual occurrence, it does become more challenging to deal with if you have some degree of attachment to the person you are discussing with it though. You did what you could to validate your position. At that point, it's really on them. If I may be so bold, I must ask: What is your relationship to this person? That effects alot of my response.
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
kpmarine said:
Zahet, it's not you; nor is it the other person you are conversing with. Some people will cling to an ideal and then get offended when you ask them to justify it. It's not an unusual occurrence, it does become more challenging to deal with if you have some degree of attachment to the person you are discussing with it though. You did what you could to validate your position. At that point, it's really on them. If I may be so bold, I must ask: What is your relationship to this person? That effects a lot of my response.
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Great reply Kp.

She is one of my good friends, we tend to argue a lot about beliefs on the internet, but when we hang out we concentrate more on having fun, than philosophical inquiry.

If someone in real life instigates an argument with me, im going to tell them my opinion... usually this doesn't happen in real life because i don't think she (and others who know me) want's to discuss these ideas in person, because it's easier to walk away from a computer than it is to walk away from a friend when she finds herself contradicting herself, making a fallible statement, or me looking her in the eyes and smiling saying "katie... you don't really know that."

I'm all for discussion and debate, but i'm not going to instigate it in real life activities, mainly because i am concentrating on enjoying life, the moment, and having a good time rather than analytical thinking.
 
kpmarine

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
Zaehet Strife said:
Great reply Kp.

She is one of my good friends, we tend to argue a lot about beliefs on the internet, but when we hang out we concentrate more on having fun, than philosophical inquiry.

If someone in real life instigates an argument with me, im going to tell them my opinion... usually this doesn't happen in real life because i don't think she (and others who know me) want's to discuss these ideas in person, because it's easier to walk away from a computer than it is to walk away from a friend when she finds herself contradicting herself, making a fallible statement, or me looking her in the eyes and smiling saying "katie... you don't really know that."

I'm all for discussion and debate, but i'm not going to instigate it in real life activities, mainly because i am concentrating on enjoying life, the moment, and having a good time rather than analytical thinking.
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That's good, sounds like you folks have a good system going. It would be nice if I could have all my discussions online. That would probably lower the butt-hurt quotient a bit.
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Update:


Katie:
you do not understand my believes, and it SEVERELY offends me who you think you KNOW me or my beliefs or my ideas AT ALL. All you have done is shown me how terrible blind you are, you cannot see me at all. Your disgusting JUDGMENTS of me make me sick, because they are so inaccurate, I've tried to remedy this for far too long. Clearly you show me you have made no progress in understanding me, and there is no longer any use at all talking with you. I cannot talk with someone who only speaks in lies- I'm not a child, I see through your blind assumptions, and you see no light, you see nothing but darkness, and your darke=ness makes me want to cry, because i wish i could show you the LIGHT OF REASON, but you have to open your own eyes.

Zaehet:
I love you Katie, and know that yes... we tend to argue a lot about beliefs on the internet, but when we hang out in real life i concentrate more on having fun, enjoying life, and the moment, rather than philosophical inquiry.

The only thing i am ever trying to help you understand Katie, is the fact that no matter our beliefs about existence, reality, and death... that there is always a possibility of our ideas being wrong. Mine and yours, and every human animal in existence.

Like i've said, for all we know this could all just be a dream of a god, with infinite amount of gods all dreaming a different dream. Or this could just be a computer simulation and reality could be far from what we perceive right now.

When we die we could transfer our "soul" into another form and continue to exist in a separate yet similar reality, we could cease to exist...

This could be... whatever you think it is, among an infinite span of possible outcomes of existence, reality, and death... or we may be completely and utterly wrong.

I am trying to tell you, that to attempt to be certain on any one of these ideas, to rule out the possibility that our beliefs could be wrong is absurd, because no one can know for sure, for certain, of what all this really is, and what happens to us when we die.

To say we are certain, in my opinion, is as good as lying to ourselves... because no one can be certain unless we pretend to be.
 
Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
Zaehet, you're not gonna show the truth to this one. And since you love her, I suggest you just let her be. Sometimes you just gotta bite your tongue. Not saying you said anything wrong (because you didn't... at ALL), but she obviously misinterprets your views into something evil.

I hate when people do that man. I seriously do. I've tried expressing my views to my spiritual friend and he SNAPPED on me. Started calling me a robot and a science experiment gone wrong lol.
Another example is my sister. We were high and I started talking about how amazing our brain is. How different chemicals react and create different emotions. And she started saying our brain is more than chemicals. She made it sound like it was truly sick of me to call emotions chemicals. A good example of how you can show the truth to someone and they'll get pissed about it. Like why the hell get mad at me (like katie got mad at you) for saying the truth. It's not like I don't want to believe emotions are some mystical magical thing.

Fuck them, point is, spiritual people see reality as evil so they MUST interpret reality into something more comfortable. And when you're the one that shows them reality, you're the bearer of bad news.. They shoot the messenger.
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
You are getting better and better Hep, man, can't tell you how impressed i am with you. Keep thinking, and keep learning as much as you can about everything. You the man, great reply.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I've dealt with this issue, too..

It's really difficult to express to someone your own viewpoint if it conflicts with their own, which has led me to be more lenient with my own. Most people haven't learned how to do that, most people are content with only their own, and disregard yours as... only yours. Your viewpoint has as much merit as theirs, so why should they believe you?.. I've lived my whole life with my own viewpoint and understanding of reality, so why would I buy someone else's if it's completely opposite? It's understandable, and I can see why it would be difficult to believe it. It would be for me, too. If someone came up and told me evolution is a lie, I'd disagree, and in my mind, think they either don't understand it or some bias is preventing them from believing it. Same goes with most philosophical opinions.. That's why proof, and the scientific method is so important. Is Katie familiar with it? Does she understand it? If not, well, that's your answer..

I've never met a person who holds the scientific method, or understands as much, in high regard who still believes in things like the soul, the afterlife, angels/demons.. Those that don't understand the implications of belief generally do not consider it. I suppose there are exceptions, but I've yet to meet any...

I'm not sure how you can rationalize these things while utilizing the scientific method.

Over 400 years of scientific progress is reduced to basic primal instincts in a moments notice... This is possibly the single greatest thing as my experience as a human being that is heartbreaking. No other way to describe it.. It literally tears me up inside to know that there are people who've dedicated their entire existence to answering these kinds of questions and there are others that dismiss them in less time than it takes to turn a channel because of their preconceived notions and biased interpretations of religious texts..

400 years, wasted.

It also makes me sad to even be alive sometimes.. To have to go through this shit as a normal person who feels like they're living on an alien planet filled with other organisms who couldn't care less.. What they want is to be entertained, momentarily satisfied, lied to and manipulated.. Sure, the diamond in the rough is there (Z, Hep, MP, Heis, CB..), but is it even worth it? Is it even worth living? A handful of people in the entirety of existence among the billions that survive and perpetuate the problem.. Why even care at all?

Katie is just one of them.. and mild at that, there are millions, if not billions more who are far worse, who will never understand the true meaning of existence, or even really care that they don't, as long as their needs are met...


Sorry for the tangent... Maybe there's hope for her, I think there is.. But.. it's a 2 way street, and you can't force anything on anyone..

Keep us updated, son!
 
Chief Walkin Eagle

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Hepheastus420 said:
Zaehet, you're not gonna show the truth to this one. And since you love her, I suggest you just let her be. Sometimes you just gotta bite your tongue. Not saying you said anything wrong (because you didn't... at ALL), but she obviously misinterprets your views into something evil.

I hate when people do that man. I seriously do. I've tried expressing my views to my spiritual friend and he SNAPPED on me. Started calling me a robot and a science experiment gone wrong lol.
Another example is my sister. We were high and I started talking about how amazing our brain is. How different chemicals react and create different emotions. And she started saying our brain is more than chemicals. She made it sound like it was truly sick of me to call emotions chemicals. A good example of how you can show the truth to someone and they'll get pissed about it. Like why the hell get mad at me (like katie got mad at you) for saying the truth. It's not like I don't want to believe emotions are some mystical magical thing.

Fuck them, point is, spiritual people see reality as evil so they MUST interpret reality into something more comfortable. And when you're the one that shows them reality, you're the bearer of bad news.. They shoot the messenger.
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Haha, a discussion with you in real life would be a hoot and a half.
 
Chief Walkin Eagle

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Hepheastus420 said:
And the troll comes back for seconds. A discussion with you would send you to the psychiatric ward.

SMoke on dude.. discussion over.
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My intuitive spirit is picking up some bad vibes, why the negativity man? =p I dont know how a discussion in real life would be like, but it would be a hoot. About your psych ward comment, are you saying you would be able to break me mentally? After the crazy shit I've been through, thats impossible lol.
 
Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
Chief Walkin Eagle said:
My intuitive spirit is picking up some bad vibes, why the negativity man? =p I dont know how a discussion in real life would be like, but it would be a hoot. About your psych ward comment, are you saying you would be able to break me mentally? After the crazy shit I've been through, thats impossible lol.
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Alright, maybe I jumped the gun. I figured you were just gonna start showing negativity. But yeah, a talk with any of you guys would be crazy.
 
lahadaextranjera

lahadaextranjera

Well-Known Member
Zaehet Strife said:
You are getting better and better Hep, man, can't tell you how impressed i am with you. Keep thinking, and keep learning as much as you can about everything. You the man, great reply.
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He's great. I real-E love him!!


Very interesting views- wonder what Diana Cooper would write?
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
I've dealt with this issue, too..

It's really difficult to express to someone your own viewpoint if it conflicts with their own, which has led me to be more lenient with my own. Most people haven't learned how to do that, most people are content with only their own, and disregard yours as... only yours. Your viewpoint has as much merit as theirs, so why should they believe you?.. I've lived my whole life with my own viewpoint and understanding of reality, so why would I buy someone else's if it's completely opposite? It's understandable, and I can see why it would be difficult to believe it. It would be for me, too. If someone came up and told me evolution is a lie, I'd disagree, and in my mind, think they either don't understand it or some bias is preventing them from believing it. Same goes with most philosophical opinions.. That's why proof, and the scientific method is so important. Is Katie familiar with it? Does she understand it? If not, well, that's your answer..

I've never met a person who holds the scientific method, or understands as much, in high regard who still believes in things like the soul, the afterlife, angels/demons.. Those that don't understand the implications of belief generally do not consider it. I suppose there are exceptions, but I've yet to meet any...

I'm not sure how you can rationalize these things while utilizing the scientific method.

Over 400 years of scientific progress is reduced to basic primal instincts in a moments notice... This is possibly the single greatest thing as my experience as a human being that is heartbreaking. No other way to describe it.. It literally tears me up inside to know that there are people who've dedicated their entire existence to answering these kinds of questions and there are others that dismiss them in less time than it takes to turn a channel because of their preconceived notions and biased interpretations of religious texts..

400 years, wasted.

It also makes me sad to even be alive sometimes.. To have to go through this shit as a normal person who feels like they're living on an alien planet filled with other organisms who couldn't care less.. What they want is to be entertained, momentarily satisfied, lied to and manipulated.. Sure, the diamond in the rough is there (Z, Hep, MP, Heis, CB..), but is it even worth it? Is it even worth living? A handful of people in the entirety of existence among the billions that survive and perpetuate the problem.. Why even care at all?

Katie is just one of them.. and mild at that, there are millions, if not billions more who are far worse, who will never understand the true meaning of existence, or even really care that they don't, as long as their needs are met...


Sorry for the tangent... Maybe there's hope for her, I think there is.. But.. it's a 2 way street, and you can't force anything on anyone..

Keep us updated, son!
Click to expand...
Awesome thinking man, appreciate the insight, well thought out. Madd props.
 
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