diyled
Well-Known Member
What you want? im doing them this weekend.
5 x 5 light set up
- Thread starter Frank Cannon
- Start date
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
The qbs sol skins and other 4 board fixtures give spreads with PAR numbers varying no more than 5% from middle to the outside edges.
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Humple
Well-Known Member
Any chance you're planning on throwing up a thread here, to report your findings?
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Mate, a lot depends on how you grow. If you're scrogging, and you have the time and patience to keep your canopy a nice even height, then lots of lower-powered LEDs spread over an even distance will be a more efficient use of light.
But if you're growing trees with buds at all levels, the inverse-square law dictates a more powerful point of light hung a bit higher will have better penetration and reach to those lower buds.
Also, a COB on each corner (which the QB96s are pretty similar to) can provide a pretty even spread of light at the correct height.
To answer your other question, boards are simpler to wire and less work to mount - that's the main reason they are popular. They also come in kits, so people don't have to think about matching components.
So I guess the next question is, how many plants do you grow, how do you spread them, and what medium do you use? What strains, if you don't mind my asking (that's just me being curious!).
Frank Cannon
Well-Known Member
Well I gotta say you guys are incredibly helpful, so thanks a heap. I see no real issue with a strip build or panel build
4 plants scrogged in Coco RTW
So the way I see it if I compare on a cost basis to get them up here, ignoring drivers for the mo:
4 x QB96 @$750 for about 750w with a canopy height of 24"?
2 x V2 288 doubles @$725 for about 560w with a canopy height of 18"?
2 x V2 288 triples @$1050 for about 800w with a canopy height of 24"?
So the QB I could put at around 750mm ctrs and would be a piece of piss to build, I really wonder about the V2 light spread when mounted on their slates, maybe better to run 4 x singles which I guess is then getting close to your previous 324 build. Is the QB96 spectrum more beneficial than the V2?
I haven't priced a strip build yet as I am struggling to find 4ft strips Hinflux series?? or did you mean making them 4ft long with 2 x 560mm strips end for end? I would like to look at 2 off 1200 x 600 from from a cost perspective, how close to the canopy do these run?
FC
4 plants scrogged in Coco RTW
So the way I see it if I compare on a cost basis to get them up here, ignoring drivers for the mo:
4 x QB96 @$750 for about 750w with a canopy height of 24"?
2 x V2 288 doubles @$725 for about 560w with a canopy height of 18"?
2 x V2 288 triples @$1050 for about 800w with a canopy height of 24"?
So the QB I could put at around 750mm ctrs and would be a piece of piss to build, I really wonder about the V2 light spread when mounted on their slates, maybe better to run 4 x singles which I guess is then getting close to your previous 324 build. Is the QB96 spectrum more beneficial than the V2?
I haven't priced a strip build yet as I am struggling to find 4ft strips Hinflux series?? or did you mean making them 4ft long with 2 x 560mm strips end for end? I would like to look at 2 off 1200 x 600 from from a cost perspective, how close to the canopy do these run?
FC
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Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
My apologies. The H_inFlux L09 is a double-row, 128-LED, 560mm strip that is the longest in the series, and also has the most diodes. You would either need to mount two, end-to-end, and preferably wire them in parallel (to maintain 48V) for a 4' frame, or you could mount them width-ways to create a 4'x2' using the above strips across the frame (have a look at the photo below).
3000K L09 - https://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/samsung-semiconductor-inc/SL-B8V4N90LAWW/1510-2452-ND/8536581?utm_campaign=buynow&utm_medium=aggregator&WT.z_cid=ref_findchips_standard&utm_source=findchips
The F Series (like in my previous photo), do come in 4' lengths (1120mm), and are cheaper by the diode, but have slightly less efficient LM561C chips instead of the LM301B in the H_inFlux series.
3000K 4' double-row F Series here: https://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/samsung-semiconductor-inc/SI-B8VZ91B20WW/1510-2229-ND/6676693
Saying that, there's really not that much difference in the two chips, and the F Series are excellent value.
If you used 560mm H-inFlux strips, you could mount them like this (even though these are two separate frames, together they form 4'x2' - you'd just build one frame instead of two).
These ^ frames I actually built using H Series strips. They have the same LEDs as the F Series, but they are spaced further apart. That means fewer LEDs on each strip - which is good for light and heat diffusion - but you need to buy more strips for the same power. I also needed to wire two strips in series, and then six of those in parallel, to get 48V.
12 of these 2' strips is equal to 4x F Series double row 2' strips. So each of the above frames is equal to the frame below. Exactly the same number of diodes, same voltage, total power and everything (colour is different - the one below is a 5000K veg frame). They each mount to the same HLG-240H-48A drivers.
So now you're getting the idea that you can be as creative as you like using strips, and can mount any combination in whichever way you can think of.
These frames all use standard 25mm (high) x 40mm (wide) x 3mm (thick) U-channel - you can get it cut to whatever length you need.
The other trick is to have a look at the price breaks for each series of strips: I needed to buy triple the number of H Series compared to double-row F Series to build the top frames, but got a price break at 25 strips - which made them cheaper than buying 8 F Series double rows. I used 24 strips, and they were more labour-intensive to mount.
So that's strips.
After all that, I still think you might be better off buying 4x QB96s with heatsinks and hooking them to a HLG-600. You have four scrogged plants - perfect! Hang one QB96 over each plant and you will get a nice flowering spectrum with all that red, as well as good penetration down the main stem, and good light spread between the four QBs when hung at 18-24". Just play around with the height until you can see a good, even spread of light.
Here's a tip: if you want to measure light, use an SLR camera (if you've got one) and leave it on the same shutter speed. Use centre-spot light measuring and adjust your F Stop until the point is correctly exposed. Then move it around the canopy to see which spots are brighter and which are darker. Adjust your light height until you have the most even spread. If you have a light meter, even better!
3000K L09 - https://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/samsung-semiconductor-inc/SL-B8V4N90LAWW/1510-2452-ND/8536581?utm_campaign=buynow&utm_medium=aggregator&WT.z_cid=ref_findchips_standard&utm_source=findchips
The F Series (like in my previous photo), do come in 4' lengths (1120mm), and are cheaper by the diode, but have slightly less efficient LM561C chips instead of the LM301B in the H_inFlux series.
3000K 4' double-row F Series here: https://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/samsung-semiconductor-inc/SI-B8VZ91B20WW/1510-2229-ND/6676693
Saying that, there's really not that much difference in the two chips, and the F Series are excellent value.
If you used 560mm H-inFlux strips, you could mount them like this (even though these are two separate frames, together they form 4'x2' - you'd just build one frame instead of two).
These ^ frames I actually built using H Series strips. They have the same LEDs as the F Series, but they are spaced further apart. That means fewer LEDs on each strip - which is good for light and heat diffusion - but you need to buy more strips for the same power. I also needed to wire two strips in series, and then six of those in parallel, to get 48V.
12 of these 2' strips is equal to 4x F Series double row 2' strips. So each of the above frames is equal to the frame below. Exactly the same number of diodes, same voltage, total power and everything (colour is different - the one below is a 5000K veg frame). They each mount to the same HLG-240H-48A drivers.
So now you're getting the idea that you can be as creative as you like using strips, and can mount any combination in whichever way you can think of.
These frames all use standard 25mm (high) x 40mm (wide) x 3mm (thick) U-channel - you can get it cut to whatever length you need.
The other trick is to have a look at the price breaks for each series of strips: I needed to buy triple the number of H Series compared to double-row F Series to build the top frames, but got a price break at 25 strips - which made them cheaper than buying 8 F Series double rows. I used 24 strips, and they were more labour-intensive to mount.
So that's strips.
After all that, I still think you might be better off buying 4x QB96s with heatsinks and hooking them to a HLG-600. You have four scrogged plants - perfect! Hang one QB96 over each plant and you will get a nice flowering spectrum with all that red, as well as good penetration down the main stem, and good light spread between the four QBs when hung at 18-24". Just play around with the height until you can see a good, even spread of light.
Here's a tip: if you want to measure light, use an SLR camera (if you've got one) and leave it on the same shutter speed. Use centre-spot light measuring and adjust your F Stop until the point is correctly exposed. Then move it around the canopy to see which spots are brighter and which are darker. Adjust your light height until you have the most even spread. If you have a light meter, even better!
Frank Cannon
Well-Known Member
Mr PC
Rightio then you have pretty much sold me on the QB96, as much as I would like to piss around with strips, my knowledge and time dictates otherwise a little bit also.
If I run the HLG-600 am I limited to 600 watts? - if so, I would think this is on the bottom end of my requirements (after all I have read and been told) so would I be better off running 2 pairs on 2 separate drivers as this would potentiality suit me better anyway.
Is it possible to run 4 boards at a max 800w off one driver?
If I ran 2 pairs off 2 drivers at 400w each is it preferable to run series or parallel - do I need to run upto 800w?
Strewth, from liking your 324 build to here has been bloody interesting to say the least!
Frank Cannon
Rightio then you have pretty much sold me on the QB96, as much as I would like to piss around with strips, my knowledge and time dictates otherwise a little bit also.
If I run the HLG-600 am I limited to 600 watts? - if so, I would think this is on the bottom end of my requirements (after all I have read and been told) so would I be better off running 2 pairs on 2 separate drivers as this would potentiality suit me better anyway.
Is it possible to run 4 boards at a max 800w off one driver?
If I ran 2 pairs off 2 drivers at 400w each is it preferable to run series or parallel - do I need to run upto 800w?
Strewth, from liking your 324 build to here has been bloody interesting to say the least!
Frank Cannon
Frank Cannon
Well-Known Member
Quite often her in doors has to look after things while I am away for work hence why I like the remote pot idea a lille bit more than her having to try and adjust the internal pot.
Humple
Well-Known Member
The B-type drivers with external pots won't provide as much current as the A-types. So you have to decide if remote dimming is worth having less power to the boards.
Frank Cannon
Well-Known Member
But I could run slightly bigger drivers to make up tho yeah?
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
2x HLG-320H-54 drivers cost the same or less than a 600. Together they should drive two QB96s at about 350W each.
I think once you find the sweet spot, you probably won't adjust the voltage/current too much. I haven't touched mine since I reduced my total wattage from over 500 to 400.
I was a LED skeptic when I first built mine, and figured I'd need at least 500W to replace 600W of HPS, but I ate my words. Both my room and my mate's room are running 400W of LED over an 8-9 square foot area. 650w of LED in a 5x5 would be the equivalent of a horizontal 1000 HPS with much better light and heat diffusion.
Two 320s would drive em higher, but a 600 would obviously be a little more convenient. I say that, but I run two HLG-240s instead of one 480 because I like the convenience and control.
I think once you find the sweet spot, you probably won't adjust the voltage/current too much. I haven't touched mine since I reduced my total wattage from over 500 to 400.
I was a LED skeptic when I first built mine, and figured I'd need at least 500W to replace 600W of HPS, but I ate my words. Both my room and my mate's room are running 400W of LED over an 8-9 square foot area. 650w of LED in a 5x5 would be the equivalent of a horizontal 1000 HPS with much better light and heat diffusion.
Two 320s would drive em higher, but a 600 would obviously be a little more convenient. I say that, but I run two HLG-240s instead of one 480 because I like the convenience and control.
wingerdinger
Well-Known Member
Hey frank
Could you do a post on the QB96 with the HLG-600 driver build
If you go that route.
Could you do a post on the QB96 with the HLG-600 driver build
If you go that route.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Running 3-4 elite boards?
Frank Cannon
Well-Known Member
Yeah I will mate as I'll list all the additional parts and stuff you need as well as I work through it.
QB96s ordered, decide to run 2 pairs so I have little bit more grunt available.
Is it best to run in parallel or series, I am guessing parallel since you guys have recommended the HLG-320h-54 as the driver?
If so is it best to split the drives outputs into 2 feeds for positive and 2 for negative and then run each dedicated feed to the appropriate terminal on each QB96 or just daisy chain the 2nd board off the first board? The reason I ask is so I can order the WAGO connectors.
Also since I want to run remote pot, I need a 100k ohm 1-10V pot correct? I am going to try and source one with a 0-10 scale on it and also plan to run a cheap power meter for each driver so i can see how many watts I am driving each pair at
FC
QB96s ordered, decide to run 2 pairs so I have little bit more grunt available.
Is it best to run in parallel or series, I am guessing parallel since you guys have recommended the HLG-320h-54 as the driver?
If so is it best to split the drives outputs into 2 feeds for positive and 2 for negative and then run each dedicated feed to the appropriate terminal on each QB96 or just daisy chain the 2nd board off the first board? The reason I ask is so I can order the WAGO connectors.
Also since I want to run remote pot, I need a 100k ohm 1-10V pot correct? I am going to try and source one with a 0-10 scale on it and also plan to run a cheap power meter for each driver so i can see how many watts I am driving each pair at
FC
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Hi mate, I could be wrong, but it looks like the QB96s come with double wire connectors (wire in, wire out), so you'd probably be able to wire into one and then link it in parallel to the other (positive wire in, positive wire out to the positive terminal on the other QB, then negative back to negative). HLG's website gives driver suggestions for parallel wiring, so we're just going off their recommendation: https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/quantum-boards/products/qb96-v2-quantum-board
Perhaps ask HLG what they suggest, but I don't see a problem with either. The 54 might drive them a little bit harder from what I can see, but I don't know what the exact voltage will be at higher currents as the website just says "54+".
I've never run a pot, so maybe others have a particular recommendation for the HLG "B" drivers.
Perhaps ask HLG what they suggest, but I don't see a problem with either. The 54 might drive them a little bit harder from what I can see, but I don't know what the exact voltage will be at higher currents as the website just says "54+".
I've never run a pot, so maybe others have a particular recommendation for the HLG "B" drivers.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
If you go this route its important to be aware of the connectors max amps, as the first boards connectors take the full amp of the whole string.
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Too right. If they are Molnex type they should be good for 9A (boards are rated at 4.2), but I'd definitely ask first.
Frank Cannon
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I did wonder about the first board having to transfer all the load, I am just gonna go with what I thought was better and split the driver outputs into 2 pairs using WAGO connectors, easy to do and piece of mind.
Why do they recomend using solid core?
Drivers, Power meters, WAGOs and QB96s ordered! Just gotta find a pot I like and then its a waiting game till everything arrives
Why do they recomend using solid core?
Drivers, Power meters, WAGOs and QB96s ordered! Just gotta find a pot I like and then its a waiting game till everything arrives
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Solid wire is easier to use with push-in connectors. Otherwise you have to tin the wire ends and even then it's a PIA. Ask me how I know! 
Down side is solid wire can suffer metal fatigue and break if you twist and bend it repeatedly. But I use it without issues.
These pots are popular for HLG drivers and get a good rap on RIU (though I've never used them): https://www.rapidled.com/cased-potentiometer-with-knob/
Down side is solid wire can suffer metal fatigue and break if you twist and bend it repeatedly. But I use it without issues.These pots are popular for HLG drivers and get a good rap on RIU (though I've never used them): https://www.rapidled.com/cased-potentiometer-with-knob/