1000 hps vs. 2x 400 hps?

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Sun Food is the Best Food

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]by Dr. Richard DeAndrea[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]




[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Is that your source???? The title?? You do realize the only place in that whole page where it says the sun is food is the TITLE..
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Ha Ha oh gawd now Im scared of apples
I wish I had a car with a great big swiveling projector
on top. And it would flash random images like holograms
in different random places. It would be like a moving
glitch in reality. Cars and people appearing then disappearing.
Fragments of memories and emotions projected on walls.
Just enough to make people stop and question what they just saw.
I'm done.

put simply animals procure there weight by consuming other organisms. plants produce there weight or biomass through photosynthesis and the suns energy to separate co2 into carbon for the plants structure and releasing oxygen as a byproduct of this conversion.

BCtrippin said:

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Sun Food is the Best Food

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]by Dr. Richard DeAndrea[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]




[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Is that your source???? The title?? You do realize the only place in that whole page where it says the sun is food is the TITLE..
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]


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what i was getting at is the sun is life without it plants would not live no would we, again if you dont eat you die if a plant does not have light it will die

Sunlight is a key factor in the process of photosynthesis.< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_radiation

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]The fruit trees represent any vegetation giving rise to food we can eat. The tree, in this case, gives us apples. All fruits, nuts, and vegetables come from plants or trees. Trees are sun nets and act like a sunbrella. When the sun shines on them they trap the light and produce little packages we can eat. Fruits and vegetables are nothing more than edibles forms of light energy (SOEF's).[/FONT]

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growing starts 1st with energy from the light, light energy is food for the plant look at light as the calories that you give a plant the more calories the faster bigger it grows in the same way if we eat to many calories we put on weight
Photosynthesis - The Light Reactions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY1ReqiYwYs&feature=related

The Sun produces light and this is vital to life on Earth. Apart from providing the light for us to see by, it provides energy for nearly all organisms on Earth. Many food chains begin with a green plant that makes high-energy food by photosynthesis using the energy of absorbed sunlight. This process occurs mainly in the leaves of a plant – through the action of chloroplasts in the cells of the leaf. Herbivores eat the plants to obtain some of this food and carnivores eat the herbivores for the same reason. Other food chains may start with the dead remains of plants or animals. However, in all cases high-energy food is passed along these food chains and the energy has all been obtained from the Sun.

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Don't humans also "eat" light in some ways, through our eyes and skin?

hell even fossil fuels (oil) are mainly phytoplankton single celled algaes that died long ago but the biomass they made from the suns energy is still available to us people to run machines etc.. any calorie you eat originally came from plants and the suns energy very simple no other source.

humans use sunlight like reptiles to produce vitamin-d and some other things very important but plants take the cake on efficiency.

9inch bigbud said:

what i was getting at is the sun is life without it plants would not live no would we, again if you dont eat you die if a plant does not have light it will die

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So your definition of food is anything that is necessary to maintain life? then oxygen is food for animals, is that what you are saying?

mindphuk said:

So your definition of food is anything that is necessary to maintain life? then oxygen is food for animals, is that what you are saying?

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no it only helps it to live oxygen is the waste product from Photosynthesis in other words plants shit and piss oxygen just the same as we shit and piss food once we get most of the calories from it.

in other words we need air to live but you can breath all the air you like it will not make you grow you need energy from food to do that. just the same as plants use energy from light= energy is food

mindphuk said:

So your definition of food is anything that is necessary to maintain life? then oxygen is food for animals, is that what you are saying?

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wow...you are pretty thick. He's saying that food is the SOURCE OF ENERGY that is used to sustain/maintain life. Oxygen is not the source of energy for animals. The sun is the original source of energy for all living things. All living animals eat plants to survive because the plants are a reserve of the sun's energy. Your artificial light is really just another way to use stored energy from the sun to grow your plants.

I have to admit, that this is a very compelling argument for the light really being the "food" for the plants. Although it's not really the definition of "food".

laserbrn said:

wow...you are pretty thick. He's saying that food is the SOURCE OF ENERGY that is used to sustain/maintain life. Oxygen is not the source of energy for animals. The sun is the original source of energy for all living things. All living animals eat plants to survive because the plants are a reserve of the sun's energy. Your artificial light is really just another way to use stored energy from the sun to grow your plants.

I have to admit, that this is a very compelling argument for the light really being the "food" for the plants. Although it's not really the definition of "food".

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look at the food chain whats at the top of it?? the sun or light is the food giver to most living things if not them all?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Mysterious Everything [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] flows in bite sized chunks (literally) through life, from one living thing to another living thing to another

living thing, and so on and so on, but not forever. ("Energy's One Way Trip"). Matter also flows through life, but in this section we are only talking about energy.
This flow of energy is transported through the animals by a system biologists call the food chain. A food chain in a given ecosystem is usually very complicated but it is useful to think of the food chain in the four simple steps or levels described below.

The drawing below only shows three steps. Which one is missing?
Scroll down to read about the 4 food chain steps...
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 1) Primary Producers -- Green plants and certain types of bacteria and

algae are the primary producers [/FONT]






[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 1) Primary Producers -- Green plants and certain types of bacteria and

algae are the primary producers because they are the ones that produce usable energy for the rest of the living organisms on earth. They use energy from the sun to make sucrose, glucose, and other compounds that other life forms can eat and "burn" for energy. In each one of those sugar molecules a little bit of the sun's energy is stored in a form that we can call chemical energy. But it might better be called "potential energy" since it is a sort of "doing-nothing-for-now-waiting-to-happen" kind of energy (for more on this visit Energy Changes).

2) Herbivores - Herbivores are the plant eaters. They have the ability to digest the plants they eat and release the energy stored in the plant cells for their own use. Some examples of animals in this group are deer, cows, elephants, rabbits, elks, zebras, most insects, and birds that eat fruit and seeds. Sometimes scientists call this level of the food chain the Primary Consumers (sounds like Economics class).

3) [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Carnivores[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - These guys are the meat eaters. Predators and scavengers are in this group. Sometimes this level in the food chain is

refered to as the Secondary Consumers. They eat the guys that eat the plants and sometimes they eat each other. Most of these animals can't eat plants at all. They would starve to death if it weren't for the Herbivores digesting the plants first. They've got the glamour job but they're really pretty helpless without all the boring plants and herbivores. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Cats and dogs, killer whales, sharks, spiders, snakes, wolves, vultures, hawks, eagles, crocodiles, and many other fierce predators that for some reason we are especially fascinated with, are in this group. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 4) Decomposers - These are not the guys that sit around unwriting songs

and symphonies (get it? The opposite of composers?). They are the guys that eat up dead bodies - both plant and animal. And aren't we glad they do. This group of useful critters are mostly bacteria and fungus, but also, according to our sources, includes maggots, dung beetles, earth worms, sow bugs (shown below), and many other eaters of dead organic matter. Without them there would be a lot of dead bodies lying around.

They're like carnivores and herbivores, because they also have to get their energy from the cells of animals or plants. The difference is they prefer their food dead - very dead.
What do you think? Are maggots decomposers or carnivores (or just yucky little things we'd rather not think about)?

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Flow of Energy Through Plants and Animals
The energy flow through living organisms starts with sunlight and photosynthesis, then travels through the food chain in bite sized chunks. Primary producers, primary consumers, secondary consumers, and decomposers are all part of the food chain.
It's great to be an Omnivore. [/FONT]

laserbrn said:

wow...you are pretty thick. He's saying that food is the SOURCE OF ENERGY that is used to sustain/maintain life. Oxygen is not the source of energy for animals. The sun is the original source of energy for all living things. All living animals eat plants to survive because the plants are a reserve of the sun's energy. Your artificial light is really just another way to use stored energy from the sun to grow your plants.

I have to admit, that this is a very compelling argument for the light really being the "food" for the plants. Although it's not really the definition of "food".

Click to expand...

I'm pretty thick huh? I'm not the one that said that light is food because the plant would die without it. That was the only point my comment refuted and if you can't see why it wasn't valid, you are pretty thick.

Sure, the sun provides energy that plants and animals utilize. The sun's energy is stored in plants, but it is also stored in animals since as you point out, that energy moves down a chain. So far all you have shown is that sunlight is the primary energy source for most life to exist on earth (excepting the extremophiles that use other energy sources). You have not made a valid argument why it should be considered food based on any definition. Can you supply a definition that supports you? If all you have is that it sustains life, then it stands to follow that oxygen also fits your definition.

9inch bigbud said:

no it only helps it to live oxygen is the waste product from Photosynthesis in other words plants shit and piss oxygen just the same as we shit and piss food once we get most of the calories from it.

in other words we need air to live but you can breath all the air you like it will not make you grow you need energy from food to do that. just the same as plants use energy from light= energy is food

Click to expand...

Sorry, photosynthesis has more in common chemically with respiration than digestion. Plants don't 'shit and piss' their metabolic waste any more than we 'shit and piss' carbon dioxide from our lungs.


Oh looky, a real authority on the subject:

Autotrophic plants use light energy to make all the organic compounds they
require from carbon dioxide, water, and about 14 mineral nutrients they absorb
from their environment. Therefore, they don't really produce metabolic wastes
to the extent that heterotrophs do. Heterotrophs digest food. Plants do not
need to digest with the exception of a few species of carnivorous plants that
obtain mineral nutrients by digesting insects and small animals.

The term food is not even a term that should be applied to autotrophic plants.
Food is something that is digested and provides energy. Plants are food for
animals and other heterotrophs but they do not produce food for themselves.
Heterotrophs get energy and organic nutrients (amino acids, fatty acids,
carbohydrates, vitamins) from other organisms (food). Autotrophic plants get
energy from light and synthesize their organic nutrients from carbon dioxide
and water.

Probably the only metabolic waste product of autotrophic plants is oxygen,
which readily diffuses out of the stomata on leaves or lenticels on
photosynthetic stems with secondary growth.

Nonphotosynthetic plant parts and photosynthetic plant parts at night produce
excess carbon dioxide which might be considered a waste product. However,
carbon dioxide is essential to plants for photosynthesis. Overall plants absorb
much more carbon dioxide than they excrete.

Plants do sometimes accumulate mineral nutrients or salts that they put in
their cell's central vacuole. Certain salt-tolerant plants (called halophytes)
sometimes excrete salt onto their leaves.

Plant cytoplasm maintains a low calcium level by transporting calcium into the
central vacuole. The calcium often forms calcium oxalate crystals in the
central vacuole. However, those sharp crystals may function in protecting the
plant from herbivores so they probably aren't waste products.

Plants produce thousands of secondary compounds such as caffeine, latex, and
nicotine, that were once thought to be waste products. However, the current
view is that secondary compounds have functions in the plant. Many secondary
compounds deter herbivores.

David Hershey, Faculty, Botany, NA
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2002-02/1013824497.Bt.r.html

mindphuk said:

Sorry, photosynthesis has more in common chemically with respiration than digestion. Plants don't 'shit and piss' their metabolic waste any more than we 'shit and piss' carbon dioxide from our lungs.


Oh looky, a real authority on the subject:

Autotrophic plants use light energy to make all the organic compounds they
require from carbon dioxide, water, and about 14 mineral nutrients they absorb
from their environment. Therefore, they don't really produce metabolic wastes
to the extent that heterotrophs do. Heterotrophs digest food. Plants do not
need to digest with the exception of a few species of carnivorous plants that
obtain mineral nutrients by digesting insects and small animals.

The term food is not even a term that should be applied to autotrophic plants.
Food is something that is digested and provides energy. Plants are food for
animals and other heterotrophs but they do not produce food for themselves.
Heterotrophs get energy and organic nutrients (amino acids, fatty acids,
carbohydrates, vitamins) from other organisms (food). Autotrophic plants get
energy from light and synthesize their organic nutrients from carbon dioxide
and water.

Probably the only metabolic waste product of autotrophic plants is oxygen,
which readily diffuses out of the stomata on leaves or lenticels on
photosynthetic stems with secondary growth.

Nonphotosynthetic plant parts and photosynthetic plant parts at night produce
excess carbon dioxide which might be considered a waste product. However,
carbon dioxide is essential to plants for photosynthesis. Overall plants absorb
much more carbon dioxide than they excrete.

Plants do sometimes accumulate mineral nutrients or salts that they put in
their cell's central vacuole. Certain salt-tolerant plants (called halophytes)
sometimes excrete salt onto their leaves.

Plant cytoplasm maintains a low calcium level by transporting calcium into the
central vacuole. The calcium often forms calcium oxalate crystals in the
central vacuole. However, those sharp crystals may function in protecting the
plant from herbivores so they probably aren't waste products.

Plants produce thousands of secondary compounds such as caffeine, latex, and
nicotine, that were once thought to be waste products. However, the current
view is that secondary compounds have functions in the plant. Many secondary
compounds deter herbivores.

David Hershey, Faculty, Botany, NA
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2002-02/1013824497.Bt.r.html

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..

Food is something that is digested and provides energy

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just the same as energy stored in plants from the light .the plants use that energy i.e food to make photothynsesis happen. just like we eat food energy our bodies brake it down = our own ATP or growth. light is the real plant food every thing else just helps it to grow, you can give it very little of anything else and it will still grow, but give it NO LIGHT IT WILL NOT GROW

9inch bigbud said:

..
just the same as energy stored in plants from the light .the plants use that energy i.e food to make photothynsesis happen. just like we eat food energy our bodies brake it down = our own ATP or growth. light is the real plant food every thing else just helps it to grow, you can give it very little of anything else and it will still grow, but give it NO LIGHT IT WILL NOT GROW

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That's right, don't listen to the botanist.
You sound like a creationist when confronted with the mounds of scientific evidence in support of evolution, still sticking to their story because their mind is already made up.

mindphuk said:

That's right, don't listen to the botanist.
You sound like a creationist when confronted with the mounds of scientific evidence in support of evolution, still sticking to their story because their mind is already made up.

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im not disagreeing with him? im explaining to you what energy is and what it does. plants get there energy from light, light energy is needed to make Photosynthesis happen. what part of energy do you not get?

take a rubber band wind it up with a match in it and let it go energy from the rubber bans make the match spin. boil a kettle you use energy to boil the water in other words energy is needed to drive somthing energy is also called food that we use to make our body grow and work.
energy from light drive the plant to Photosynthesis< its the energy food

9inch bigbud said:

im not disagreeing with him? im explaining to you what energy is and what it does. plants get there energy from light, light energy is needed to make Photosynthesis happen. what part of energy do you not get?

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You're not disagreeing with him except for the bolded comment:
The term food is not even a term that should be applied to autotrophic plants.

You then highlight:
Food is something that is digested and provides energy.
Yes. and then,
Autotrophic plants get energy from light
Hmm, no mention of digestion though and also disregarded the rest of the sentence: and synthesize their organic nutrients from carbon dioxide
and water.

As stated previously, IF you want to apply the incorrect term food to an autotrophic plant, then food is synthesized by the plant itself and is not light, is not CO2, and is not the macronutrients but a combination of them. Continuing your line of reasoning without anything to back it up except your own belief does not make you correct.

mindphuk said:

You're not disagreeing with him except for the bolded comment:
The term food is not even a term that should be applied to autotrophic plants.

You then highlight:
Food is something that is digested and provides energy.
Yes. and then,
Autotrophic plants get energy from light
Hmm, no mention of digestion though and also disregarded the rest of the sentence: and synthesize their organic nutrients from carbon dioxide
and water.

As stated previously, IF you want to apply the incorrect term food to an autotrophic plant, then food is synthesized by the plant itself and is not light, is not CO2, and is not the macronutrients but a combination of them. Continuing your line of reasoning without anything to back it up except your own belief does not make you correct.

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what is Synthesis??

usually to mean a process which combines together two or more pre-existing elements resulting in the formation of something new.

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Light is the energy that makes that happen without it it can not happen again what part of energy dont you get? plants dont need to make food for them self the light is its food and with the light making the plant work it gets the rest of what it needs from its surrounding environment water/ nutes/ co2. light is the building block the energy.

Photosynthesis, the process of making new chemicals bonds utilizing light energy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis

Photosynthesis[&#945;] is a metabolic pathway that converts carbon dioxide into organic compounds, especially sugars, using the energy from sunlight
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis

Right now my six plants are under a 400watt MH.. its a a long and narrow closet... im plannin on adding a 400 watt hps once i transplant them into their final 5 gallon containers... hope this will gimmie NICE POUNDS

Pot said:

Right now my six plants are under a 400watt MH.. its a a long and narrow closet... im plannin on adding a 400 watt hps once i transplant them into their final 5 gallon containers... hope this will gimmie NICE POUNDS

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to me personally ... if the question is 1 - 1000 watt setup or 2 - 400's i got for the 1000 everytime ... just make sure you got the right equipment to keep your room cooled ... they tend to get really hot ... i rigged the cooltube reflector to my airconditioning system in my house ... direct cold air over my 1000 watt HPS light ... and i have the whole system in a wardrobe converted into a grow cabinet .... if your trying to cover more space ... dont waste time with the smaller lights ,,, get another 1000 watt light... more light ... better results ... just make sure your heat is vented well ...