Healthcare reform-Do we really want the government screwing this up too?

Haul me to Heaven · Oct 31, 2009

LondonFog: Health care is good. Being chaffered around is also good- unless the driver is blitzed. Health care is good unless it's going to be run by a bunch of scum in and around Washington Deceit.

You, and others like you, seem to believe that government is the answer. Well, it's not. Never has been.
Those of us the live in the states and keep an unbiased eye on things have learned that government can not be trusted dispite the color of the public servants trying to foist this bucket of BS upon us.

We are not that stupid. Many are but we are not.
And, by the way, the color reference means black, white, red, blue, green and brown. So don't get your panties in a twist.
Those that want government health care trust crooked accounting and beautifully spoken words. The numbers don't add up as well as all the lies do.

doc111 · Nov 1, 2009

Haul me to Heaven said:
LondonFog: Health care is good. Being chaffered around is also good- unless the driver is blitzed. Health care is good unless it's going to be run by a bunch of scum in and around Washington Deceit.

You, and others like you, seem to believe that government is the answer. Well, it's not. Never has been.
Those of us the live in the states and keep an unbiased eye on things have learned that government can not be trusted dispite the color of the public servants trying to foist this bucket of BS upon us.

We are not that stupid. Many are but we are not.
And, by the way, the color reference means black, white, red, blue, green and brown. So don't get your panties in a twist.
Those that want government health care trust crooked accounting and beautifully spoken words. The numbers don't add up as well as all the lies do.

I believe some people just want to start arguments for the sake of arguing. I don't think that anything you can possibly say will change certain minds no matter how intelligently presented. I have insurance and still can't afford my copays and deductibles. So yeah I want healthcare fixed but government intervention is a recipe for disaster here.

NoDrama · Nov 1, 2009

londonfog said:
Well I agree on the war issues, but how the hell you relate that to health care and the government screwing that up ????? The post office is ran by the government and I see that runs well...Hear a lot of people bitchn about the post office but really that runs pretty damn good considering all that its has to do....your example is somewhat weak to your argument but hey like most people I see just bitch just to bitch...I just don't understand your point really....are you against health care reform ???? Do you think it should stay like it is...and again I ask you if you like it then you like it, but if you don't what and how should we go about fixing it....or AGAIN did you just want to start another negative thread with no ideas of your own...I don't like the way health care is and it needs to be fix...the only way for it to get fix is for the government to get involved....Far as me getting hand out..son I receive health care from my spouse job that we pay for...I'm retired from USAF so I could also use VA... I just know that others may not be as fortunate as myself and feel that if we are to be the best ,richest,advance,etc...etc..then hell we should be able to heal and cure our sick that can't afford to because of the corruption in the health industry and other reasons.... but I guess you belong to the "phuck you its all about me " crowd that don't want to help others....because ???????

Funny how you use the post office as an example of wise government policy. Well Bub let me tell you the facts...http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/20892/
The government (GAO) itself has found that the post office has lost money by the BILLIONS for the last 4 years. The USPS is Bankrupt! They are thinking of Privatizing it because it runs so inefficiently. Japan and Germany have both privatized their mail systems with great success. Just another failed Government Program.

You think because we don't want government health care that we actually want people to suffer, couldn't be further from the truth. The healthCARE in this country is some of the best in the world, the cost however is the problem, THE COST, Not the care. Government cannot fix one without harming the other. Sure we can have low cost health care, you just have to stop the $250,000 insurance premium the doc has to pay every year because he might get sued. So if costs to the doctors are so high, therefore service rates must be high also. Those doctors pay for their education for many years after they graduate, medical school is not cheap. Its not like you take a single 2 hour course in healing and get to remove a spleen with expert finesse on your first try. If you let government reduce the costs they will start by reducing the CARE you receive.

What the hell did they teach you in the Air Force? Didn't you get discipline and responsibility for yourself taught to you? Government can't help you without harming someone else, its a zero sum game with them.

Haul me to Heaven · Nov 1, 2009

doc111 said:
I believe some people just want to start arguments for the sake of arguing. I don't think that anything you can possibly say will change certain minds no matter how intelligently presented. I have insurance and still can't afford my copays and deductibles. So yeah I want healthcare fixed but government intervention is a recipe for disaster here.

You are correct !

doc111 · Nov 1, 2009

NoDrama said:
Funny how you use the post office as an example of wise government policy. Well Bub let me tell you the facts...http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/20892/
The government (GAO) itself has found that the post office has lost money by the BILLIONS for the last 4 years. The USPS is Bankrupt! They are thinking of Privatizing it because it runs so inefficiently. Japan and Germany have both privatized their mail systems with great success. Just another failed Government Program.

You think because we don't want government health care that we actually want people to suffer, couldn't be further from the truth. The healthCARE in this country is some of the best in the world, the cost however is the problem, THE COST, Not the care. Government cannot fix one without harming the other. Sure we can have low cost health care, you just have to stop the $250,000 insurance premium the doc has to pay every year because he might get sued. So if costs to the doctors are so high, therefore service rates must be high also. Those doctors pay for their education for many years after they graduate, medical school is not cheap. Its not like you take a single 2 hour course in healing and get to remove a spleen with expert finesse on your first try. If you let government reduce the costs they will start by reducing the CARE you receive.

What the hell did they teach you in the Air Force? Didn't you get discipline and responsibility for yourself taught to you? Government can't help you without harming someone else, its a zero sum game with them.

The post office has been used as and example of government inefficency. I too find it interesting that he would throw that up as an example of how well the government runs it's businesses.....and that only involves moving a package or envelope from A to B. Think how complex healthcare is when compared to a delivery service! I forsee it being even worse than the USPS. Good job NoDrama.

Haul me to Heaven · Nov 1, 2009

Doc111 scores the point.
NoDrama- make your point in a better way.
I see where you are trying to go but Doc111 is on top of you at this point.

btw- doc.... is that Department of corrections 111 ???

My number comes much further down the line.
(not even close to '111'.)
You have to be in your 90's to hold a '111' number in montana.
justine
lol!!!

doc111 · Nov 1, 2009

Haul me to Heaven said:
Doc111 scores the point.
NoDrama- make your point in a better way.
I see where you are trying to go but Doc111 is on top of you at this point.

btw- doc.... is that Department of corrections 111 ???

My number comes much further down the line.
(not even close to '111'.)
You have to be in your 90's to hold a '111' number in montana.
justine
lol!!!

lol! No I was a medic in the military and was a firefighter paramedic until I was injured on the job and had to retire early. My nickname for many years has been doc.

doc111 · Nov 2, 2009

When I got up and turned the news on this a.m. one of the headlines was "Sen. Lieberman slams public option. Says Americans would be better off with no healthcare bill". Interesting how the Independent and former democrat thinks the public option would be bad for America too. What could his motivation be? I mean he's an Independent now so he doesn't have a party affiliation. I'm an Independent and we share the same outlook on healthcare. Interesting. ;-)

Rob Roy · Nov 2, 2009

londonfog said:
ok so we drop con or lib .....You say in the title of this thread do you want the government screwing this up TOO... so what else has the government screwed up for you......... just tell me what else has the big bad government screwed up for you..you don't want government ?????? you like the way health care is now.???? Do you have any ideas how to change it if you do not like it????.. or you just starting a negative thread just to start a negative thread...

Even if the government were perfect, which of course we know it isn't... Where does one person or a group of people calling themselves government derive the right to make others buy something they may not want?

If they do not have my consent or need my consent, then how is this consistent with freedom?

Sizzlack · Nov 2, 2009

Come on man! WE HAVE ALLWAYS BEEN PAYING FOR THE UNINSURED. Allways. Just think about that. Drop your political agenda and consider that. Its the truth.

Rob Roy · Nov 2, 2009

Sizzlack said:
Come on man! WE HAVE ALLWAYS BEEN PAYING FOR THE UNINSURED. Allways. Just think about that. Drop your political agenda and consider that. Its the truth.

My agenda isn't political. I think both major parties are all about controlling people through coercion and extortion. My AGENDA is freedom for me and you, nothing else. I don't want to impose my "agenda" on anybody. I simply don't want anybody imposing their agenda on me and insisting that I'm being given a choice when I'm not.

The truth is when one person or a group of people insist through the force of government that you WILL do something
or pay for something you wouldn't ordinarily do or purchase, you have what ?
It's not freedom is it?

doc111 · Nov 2, 2009

Rob Roy said:
My agenda isn't political. I think both major parties are all about controlling people through coercion and extortion. My AGENDA is freedom for me and you, nothing else. I don't want to impose my "agenda" on anybody. I simply don't want anybody imposing their agenda on me and insisting that I'm being given a choice when I'm not.

The truth is when one person or a group of people insist through the force of government that you WILL do something
or pay for something you wouldn't ordinarily do or purchase, you have what ?
It's not freedom is it?

Very good point Rob. Unfortunately the previous poster is correct about the fact that we have been paying for the uninsured all along. I'm not sure what the point is beyond that....We keep drifting further away from personal liberty and responsibility. I'm no conspiracy buff but I do believe this is just another way for the government to grab more power. I don't want the government to control yet another aspect of my life. What happens when a people or society as a whole lose the ability to make their own choices? And how big are we going to allow our government to get? The way it appears to me is that there is no end in sight. If this continues kiss what little freedom we have left goodbye. This is how totalitarianism starts. A society doesn't wake up one morning to a totalitarian state. It happens gradually over years or even decades.

medicineman · Nov 2, 2009

doc111 said:
Very good point Rob. Unfortunately the previous poster is correct about the fact that we have been paying for the uninsured all along. I'm not sure what the point is beyond that....We keep drifting further away from personal liberty and responsibility. I'm no conspiracy buff but I do believe this is just another way for the government to grab more power. I don't want the government to control yet another aspect of my life. What happens when a people or society as a whole lose the ability to make their own choices? And how big are we going to allow our government to get? The way it appears to me is that there is no end in sight. If this continues kiss what little freedom we have left goodbye. This is how totalitarianism starts. A society doesn't wake up one morning to a totalitarian state. It happens gradually over years or even decades.

Paranoia, aint it grand. When one equates single payer health care to totalitarianism, they've gone one toke over the line. I wonder why 30-35 countries worldwide seem to have a version of single payer healthcare and yet, no totalitarianism. Is it just the US that would enforce such a system? I see the right and a huge paranoid delusion, but hey, what would one expect, The commies are coming, the commies are coming.

doc111 · Nov 2, 2009

medicineman said:
Paranoia, aint it grand. When one equates single payer health care to totalatarianism, they've gone one toke over the line. I wonder why 30-35 countries worldwide seem to have a version of single payer healthcare and yet, no totalatarianism. Is it just the US that would enforce such a system? I see the right and a huge paranoid delusion, but hey, what would one expect, The commies are coming, the commies are coming.

The U.S. is not the rest of the world. Many other countries don't have the freedoms that we do. Maybe I am paranoid. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't like the direction the country is headed and I'm not alone. I never said healthcare reform=totalitarianism. Never said it. I think it is a small piece of the pie which will put us closer to totalitarianism. I sincerely hope I am wrong because I think some form of government control over healthcare is coming. It doesn't take a genius to look at the history of some other countries which went down a similar path as the U.S. and ended up regretting it. I hope those in power understand the lessons history has taught us and will avoid a catastrophe but bottom line....I do not trust the suits in Washington, period!

londonfog · Nov 2, 2009

doc111 said:
You are right, I am wrong. I hate everybody and want everyone to suffer. I want nobody to be able to afford healthcare or have healthcare at all for that matter. I am antigovernment and can't stand what America stands for. Oh that's right, America stands for freedom. Something I fought for on foreign soil not once, not twice, but three times. Pay attention to history. The more power governments get the more dangerous they become. This is not the role of the U.S. government as was intended by our founding fathers or the constitution. It's an attempt for the government to grab more power in my humble opinion. I will say it once again. I realize healthcare is messed up and I want it fixed. I don't think this will fix it and I don't have the all the answers. Now walk on and jack someone elses thread.

Don't start a thread if you don't want people to post, but as i said If you don't have any idea how to fix health care how can you knock someone who is...You still have not answered as to what the goverment has screwed for you ?????? Sounds like you just a negative person with no ideas, who just wants to knock the next man for trying.... I'm glad Obama took this challange on to fix health care... You said yourself that healthcare is messed up and that you want it fixed, but you don't have any idea how you would fix it and yet you complain when someone trys..jeeezzzzz....WTF.... Again a wise man once told me " If you know that there is a problem and the only thing you do is complain about the problem, but yet you have no ideas how to fix the problem then you yourself become part of the problem"... And if you think some one is jacking your thread just because they have a different thought then your own then maybe you should not post in the political forum......JMHO

doc111 · Nov 2, 2009

londonfog said:
Don't start a thread if you don't want people to post, but as i said If you don't have any idea how to fix health care how can you knock someone who is...You still have not answered as to what the goverment has screwed for you ?????? Sounds like you just a negative person with no ideas, who just wants to knock the next man for trying.... I'm glad Obama took this challange on to fix health care... You said yourself that healthcare is messed up and that you want it fixed, but you don't have any idea how you would fix it and yet you complain when someone trys..jeeezzzzz....WTF.... Again a wise man once told me " If you know that there is a problem and the only thing you do is complain about the problem, but yet you have no ideas how to fix the problem then you yourself become part of the problem"... And if you think some one is jacking your thread just because they have a different thought then your own then maybe you should not post in the political forum......JMHO

I ask you not to post in my thread anymore because you are insulting and condescending. I am trying to conduct a grownup discussion here and all I see you doing is going around and insulting people who don't share your views. I gave you a few examples of what the government has screwed up but apparently you don't read all the posts in a given thread. You come back with the same B.S. You say I'm part of the problem because I don't agree with the government getting involved in healthcare. It isn't the role of our government! Go back to high school government class and you will learn this. We are not a socialist society. I am not a socialist. If you are that's great. You just come into my thread and start bashing me and not even giving any examples of why I might be wrong. The title, my friend, doesn't say "How do we fix healthcare". Those ideas are welcome but that's not what I am focusing on here. You are more than welcome to post an opposing view but I don't care for you thinking you know what kind of person I am. We will have to agree to disagree because I am done having this pointless back and forth with you.

medicineman · Nov 2, 2009

NoDrama said:
Funny how you use the post office as an example of wise government policy. Well Bub let me tell you the facts...http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/20892/
The government (GAO) itself has found that the post office has lost money by the BILLIONS for the last 4 years. The USPS is Bankrupt! They are thinking of Privatizing it because it runs so inefficiently. Japan and Germany have both privatized their mail systems with great success. Just another failed Government Program.

You think because we don't want government health care that we actually want people to suffer, couldn't be further from the truth. The healthCARE in this country is some of the best in the world, the cost however is the problem, THE COST, Not the care. Government cannot fix one without harming the other. Sure we can have low cost health care, you just have to stop the $250,000 insurance premium the doc has to pay every year because he might get sued. So if costs to the doctors are so high, therefore service rates must be high also. Those doctors pay for their education for many years after they graduate, medical school is not cheap. Its not like you take a single 2 hour course in healing and get to remove a spleen with expert finesse on your first try. If you let government reduce the costs they will start by reducing the CARE you receive.

The reduction in costs will be gained by eliminating profit, 300 Billion, that's Billion with a B, or three hundred thousand million. Thats a thousand bucks for every man woman and child in America. That my friend, would buy a lot of government healthcare.

What the hell did they teach you in the Air Force? Didn't you get discipline and responsibility for yourself taught to you? Government can't help you without harming someone else, its a zero sum game with them.

Again with the twisted facts:
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=4968&type=0
2% of health care costs are related to malpractice. A pretty insignificant amount in the big picture. Maybe we should be more interested in the 30% profit margin the insurance companies siphon off the top.

londonfog · Nov 2, 2009

I can post wherever I damn well please so save your fonts (breath).... Just to point out how wrong you are ...you say goverment has no place in health care ....hmmmmm I guess you don't want medicare so, now you don't want seniors to receive healthcare ...what about medicaid don't want that either I guess..both are managed by who ??? your government ..hope that slap didn't hurt ... It would be best for you not to comment back to me as you can see you getting pwned in this conversation...

doc111 · Nov 2, 2009

londonfog said:
i can post wherever i damn well please so save your fonts (breath).... Just to point out how wrong you are ...you say goverment has no place in health care ....hmmmmm i guess you don't want medicare so, now you don't want seniors to receive healthcare ...what about medicaid don't want that either i guess..both are managed by who ??? Your government ..hope that slap didn't hurt ... It would be best for you not to comment back to me as you can see you getting pwned in this conversation...

lmao!!!!!!

londonfog · Nov 2, 2009

Haul me to Heaven said:
LondonFog: Health care is good. Being chaffered around is also good- unless the driver is blitzed. Health care is good unless it's going to be run by a bunch of scum in and around Washington Deceit.

You, and others like you, seem to believe that government is the answer. Well, it's not. Never has been.
Those of us the live in the states and keep an unbiased eye on things have learned that government can not be trusted dispite the color of the public servants trying to foist this bucket of BS upon us.

We are not that stupid. Many are but we are not.
And, by the way, the color reference means black, white, red, blue, green and brown. So don't get your panties in a twist.
Those that want government health care trust crooked accounting and beautifully spoken words. The numbers don't add up as well as all the lies do.

Do you have any ideas how to fix it???? I don't wear panties maybe that's something that the man does in your family but not mine...Again people keep saying government has no place in heath care..two words ..MEDICAID AND MEDICARE...hell my VA is ran by the government ... I do agree that Washington does have a lot of scum and the funny thing about it is that's the ones who don't want the health care bill to past...and its not that government can't be trusted..its PEOPLE that cannot be trusted

Healthcare reform-Do we really want the government screwing this up too?

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