Injustice in Palestine

[BudmanTX]

Not trying to say it's the same and I'll agree up front that its a leading question and therefore a false argument. But I'll ask anyway.

Why is it that most people would agree a man should never hit a woman? No matter what she does, a man should never hit a woman. Why is that?

it's inherently wrong in the first place to hit a woman........

 

[Fogdog]

Which video are you talking about?

The one I am is what I responded to:




That is the troll that I am talking about, this is such a volatile subject that the content can create a false sense of what is being talked about.

Take out the actual horrible shit going on in Netanyahu's supression of these people, and rematch that video. It is the same discussion you see on Fox news about 'cancel culture'.

It bridges the gap and creates a conspiracy around the social media censorship vs the ability to use it to radicalize people into blowing up a building because of lizard people, and creates social landlines about issues that people would otherwise be able to agree about.

I saw that video and made no comment because social media companies have in fact ceded government control of their content to governments in many countries, not just Israel. I can't comment on whether or not it was unfair to take down messages from Palestinians reporting their own experience or forwarding messages from others because I never saw them.

It is not propaganda to report that your own messages have been deleted, nor is it propaganda to show statistics showing something fishy is going on. But that happens in many places. It is an issue with social media, not something specific to the Israeli military actions against Palestinians in Gaza.

 

[hanimmal]

I saw that video and made no comment because social media companies have in fact ceded government control of their content to governments in many countries, not just Israel. I can't comment on whether or not it was unfair to take down messages from Palestinians reporting their own experience or forwarding messages from others because I never saw them.

They were reporting about what could easily be just a bunch of sock puppet accounts getting purged when all of a sudden they coordinate the worst imagery into the feeds to brainwash people who are vulnerable to this very real violence occurring. And then when it gets taken down they troll it into thinking that it is actual censorship from the company and not just stopping what is essentially a weaponization of a particular post.

It is not propaganda to report that your own messages have been deleted, nor is it propaganda to show statistics showing something fishy is going on. But that happens in many places.

They were not reporting theirs were being deleted though that is the thing. Nor were they showing actual statistics, just 'this one dude on whatever website I watch them on' stories and a lot of 'what if' talk. Same shit as Fox News, just using this very powerful imagery to sell the snowflake.

It is an issue with social media, not something specific to the Israeli military actions against Palestinians in Gaza.

Im not sure what you mean here.

 

[Fogdog]

it's inherently wrong in the first place to hit a woman........

Why is that?

 

[BudmanTX]

Why is that?

where you going with these questions mate?? just curious.....

i will tell you what my great grandmother told me when i was little...."if i every hear that you hit a woman at all, i will personally come over and kick your ass, i don't care if i'm dead....i will still come out of my grave to hunt you down and still kick your ass"

 

[Fogdog]

They were reporting about what could easily be just a bunch of sock puppet accounts getting purged when all of a sudden they coordinate the worst imagery into the feeds to brainwash people who are vulnerable to this very real violence occurring. And then when it gets taken down they troll it into thinking that it is actual censorship from the company and not just stopping what is essentially a weaponization of a particular post.


They were not reporting theirs were being deleted though that is the thing. Nor were they showing actual statistics, just 'this one dude on whatever website I watch them on' stories and a lot of 'what if' talk. Same shit as Fox News, just using this very powerful imagery to sell the snowflake.

Im not sure what you mean here.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes there is another reason for oral fixation.

Sometimes a seemingly insidious deletion of Palestinian social media posts is just a glitch.


Instagram, Twitter blame glitches for deleting Palestinian posts


BEIRUT, May 10 (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - Instagram and Twitter have blamed technical errors for deleting posts mentioning the possible eviction of Palestinians from East Jerusalem, but data rights groups fear “discriminatory” algorithms are at work and want greater transparency.

Palestinians living in the Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood claimed by Jewish settlers have taken to social media to protest as they face eviction, but some found their posts, photos or videos removed or their accounts blocked starting last week.

It came as a long-running legal case over evictions from homes in Sheikh Jarrah has fuelled tensions in Jerusalem where hundreds of Palestinians clashed with Israeli police on Monday.

Instagram, Twitter blame glitches for deleting Palestinian posts

Instagram and Twitter have blamed technical errors for deleting posts mentioning the possible eviction of Palestinians from East Jerusalem, but data rights groups fear "discriminatory" algorithms are at work and want greater transparency.

www.reuters.com

So, I don't really know. I don't think it's propaganda for a Palestinian person who lives as a second class citizen in their own land to jump to the conclusion that Israel had a hand in suppressing Gazan tweets. Israel is a right wing authoritarian government and has no principles when it comes to suppressing free speech. Maybe I'm wrong on this one instance, I'm not willing to dig for the information. I'm not wrong about the Israeli government's treatment and actions against Palestinian people. It would be like a Trumper angrily denying Trump lied on one count. As if the thousands of other lies didn't matter. So, I don't see this as propaganda. I don't.

Regarding censorship on social media. Yeah, it's happening and its not even a secret.

 

[Fogdog]

where you going with these questions mate?? just curious.....

i will tell you what my great grandmother told me when i was little...."if i every hear that you hit a woman at all, i will personally come over and kick your ass, i don't care if i'm dead....i will still come out of my grave to hunt you down and still kick your ass"

It's an unfair and leading question. Yes, I'm trying to make a point. But we aren't adversaries, I like and respect you. Why are you so cautious? Why is it such an awful thing for a man to hit a woman? Surely its not just because of your grandma's very righteous instruction to you.

 

[Alctrz8849]

Yeah it is a pretty sick game that you have to hope nobody wins.
I worry about the way those videos can be titled and the partial stories that they can tell to illicit real human responses to.

They only tell partial portions of what occurred and are highly weaponizeable.
I think it would actually be very much in the interest of America (politicians anyways) to ban every social media platform, but that genie is out of the bottle.

And currently we have a entire political party working hard to stop anything form being done to stop the attacks on our societies legislatively. And if social media sites end trolls, there would not be any content, so they have no incentive to change things.

The Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda is my best guess.

Your last sentence in this post is why one of my good friends and air have stopped speaking to eachother. The last time we met up, he said something to the tune of the Christian White man was being oppressed. I pretty much spent the rest of our time together trying to point out how that isn't true. Guess I did a terrible job, though I'm sure he felt like I was berating him the rest of the time. My passion is often misunderstood as anger or aggressiveness. That sentence he said really grossed me out.

 

[BudmanTX]

It's an unfair and leading question. Yes, I'm trying to make a point. But we aren't adversaries, I like and respect you. Why are you so cautious? Why is it such an awful thing for a man to hit a woman? Surely its not just because of your grandma's very righteous instruction to you.

i'm always caustious man...it's just me...been like that for a long time. Why is it so awful, in the simplest terms....it's all about respect imo.....i just think it's not right to raise a hand against a woman.....if things get that far.....walk away....there are better ways to solve things.....hitting a woman out of spite, angry, distrust....is not the way.........and yes my grandma had more of an impact on me than most think..

 

[hanimmal]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes there is another reason for oral fixation.

Sometimes a seemingly insidious deletion of Palestinian social media posts is just a glitch.


Instagram, Twitter blame glitches for deleting Palestinian posts


BEIRUT, May 10 (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - Instagram and Twitter have blamed technical errors for deleting posts mentioning the possible eviction of Palestinians from East Jerusalem, but data rights groups fear “discriminatory” algorithms are at work and want greater transparency.

Palestinians living in the Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood claimed by Jewish settlers have taken to social media to protest as they face eviction, but some found their posts, photos or videos removed or their accounts blocked starting last week.

It came as a long-running legal case over evictions from homes in Sheikh Jarrah has fuelled tensions in Jerusalem where hundreds of Palestinians clashed with Israeli police on Monday.

Instagram, Twitter blame glitches for deleting Palestinian posts

Instagram and Twitter have blamed technical errors for deleting posts mentioning the possible eviction of Palestinians from East Jerusalem, but data rights groups fear "discriminatory" algorithms are at work and want greater transparency.

www.reuters.com

So, I don't really know. I don't think it's propaganda for a Palestinian person who lives as a second class citizen in their own land to jump to the conclusion that Israel had a hand in suppressing Gazan tweets. Israel is a right wing authoritarian government and has no principles when it comes to suppressing free speech. Maybe I'm wrong on this one instance, I'm not willing to dig for the information. I'm not wrong about the Israeli government's treatment and actions against Palestinian people. It would be like a Trumper angrily denying Trump lied on one count. As if the thousands of other lies didn't matter. So, I don't see this as propaganda. I don't.

Regarding censorship on social media. Yeah, it's happening and its not even a secret.

That is exactly it, thank you for the Reuters link to it.

The person in this did the right thing by taking SS of them as proof of it.

I don't think it's propaganda for a Palestinian person who lives as a second class citizen in their own land to jump to the conclusion that Israel had a hand in suppressing Gazan tweets.

I agree.

I am not saying the person is the propaganda.

I am saying that the producers of that video are making content that is selling the same line that Fox news does when they troll 'cancel culture'.

Israel is a right wing authoritarian government and has no principles when it comes to suppressing free speech.

Netenyahu is virtually indistinguishable to me from Putin/MBS/Trump (in his dreams). I am not standing up for them at all in this.

Maybe I'm wrong on this one instance, I'm not willing to dig for the information.

I am not even sure at this point what you would be wrong about. So all good.

I'm not wrong about the Israeli government's treatment and actions against Palestinian people.

I am for sure not saying you are.

It would be like a Trumper angrily denying Trump lied on one count.

Im more worried about the people who trolled for Trump using things like this to further their attack on our democracies. Im more concerned that this is all Netanyahu trying to secure his next delay of court by getting his citizens to murder one another. It is so infuriating that people are being manipulated to me regardless of who the incitement(?) of violence is being targeted.

As if the thousands of other lies didn't matter. So, I don't see this as propaganda. I don't.

I understand, and am not saying that they don't matter.

Regarding censorship on social media. Yeah, it's happening and its not even a secret.

As it should be.

Have you seen the crazy shit people are pushing?

 

[hanimmal]

Your last sentence in this post is why one of my good friends and air have stopped speaking to eachother. The last time we met up, he said something to the tune of the Christian White man was being oppressed. I pretty much spent the rest of our time together trying to point out how that isn't true. Guess I did a terrible job, though I'm sure he felt like I was berating him the rest of the time. My passion is often misunderstood as anger or aggressiveness. That sentence he said really grossed me out.

I really think it is by design that it has that impact on conversations.

By the end of them you stumble over so many hours of hateful things being pounded into the other persons head that by the end of it everyone leaves the conversation just drained. Drained seems like so little of a word to describe it, devastated/beaten up maybe.

Im sorry about your friend. It sucks that people have been so sold this con.

 

[Fogdog]

i'm always caustious man...it's just me...been like that for a long time. Why is it so awful, in the simplest terms....it's all about respect imo.....i just think it's not right to raise a hand against a woman.....if things get that far.....walk away....there are better ways to solve things.....hitting a woman out of spite, angry, distrust....is not the way.........and yes my grandma had more of an impact on me than most think..

It's not right to raise a hand against a man either. But I think both of us would agree that in self defense, one might need to bring it if a man is the aggressor but it would have to be a very special situation before doing so against a woman. So, what's the difference?

I'll just cut to the chase. The difference is the unequal position of strength. 99 times out of a hundred, the woman has no chance against a man. Even in self defense, the man can and should do all they can to avoid throwing their hands. Because they can.

Not only women. Same with kids. Small dogs. You can't beat them. The difference in power is so unequal that to do so would be an injustice.

So, back to this thread. Israel has so much strength and the Gazans so little that when I see buildings toppling in Gaza due to Israel's bombs, I place the blame on the one holding all the power.

 

[Alctrz8849]

It's not right to raise a hand against a man either. But I think both of us would agree that in self defense, one might need to bring it if a man is the aggressor but it would have to be a very special situation before doing so against a woman. So, what's the difference?

I'll just cut to the chase. The difference is the unequal position of strength. 99 times out of a hundred, the woman has no chance against a man. Even in self defense, the man can and should do all they can to avoid throwing their hands. Because they can.

Not only women. Same with kids. Small dogs. You can't beat them. The difference in power is so unequal that to do so would be an injustice.

So, back to this thread. Israel has so much strength and the Gazans so little that when I see buildings toppling in Gaza due to Israel's bombs, I place the blame on the one holding all the power.

Although he is catching flack for it, I like the way Trevor Noah put it. He doesn't try to determine who is right and who is wrong, who started it etc, but rather the difference in strength between the two countries. Israeli forces would CRUSH Palestine if they went in full force, so he ask how hard should you hit back equating the situation to the power difference between a parent and a child. That was taken out of context and he is not saying Palestinian people are children, but rather bring the physical strength of a child versus the parent. Parents don't beat their child if the child attacks them, they are far too powerful and would CRUSH the child; so he poses the question of what should the response be.

Trevor Noah to Israel: ‘When you have this much power, what is your responsibility?’ | Late-night TV roundup | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Fogdog]

Although he is catching flack for it, I like the way Trevor Noah put it. He doesn't try to determine who is right and who is wrong, who started it etc, but rather the difference in strength between the two countries. Israeli forces would CRUSH Palestine if they went in full force, so he ask how hard should you hit back equating the situation to the power difference between a parent and a child. That was taken out of context and he is not saying Palestinian people are children, but rather bring the physical strength of a child versus the parent. Parents don't beat their child if the child attacks them, they are far too powerful and would CRUSH the child; so he poses the question of what should the response be.

Trevor Noah to Israel: ‘When you have this much power, what is your responsibility?’ | Late-night TV roundup | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Noah nailed it.

Thanks for the post. I hadn't seen it but it matches my belief system perfectly.

 

[TacoMac]

I'm sure he wanted to use the ' if a woman slaps you, you don't beat her half to death with a baseball bat ' analogy.

But then that would offend the Palestinians because they wouldn't like being compared to a woman.

 

[Fogdog]

I'm sure he wanted to use the ' if a woman slaps you, you don't beat her half to death with a baseball bat ' analogy.

But then that would offend the Palestinians because they wouldn't like being compared to a woman.

I don't understand. How about explaining?

 

[Alctrz8849]

Noah nailed it.

Thanks for the post. I hadn't seen it but it matches my belief system perfectly.

Me too! There is far too much history there for anyone outside of the fight to point fingers. What we can do is let them know that we want them to live and think 1 dead Palestinian or 1 dead Israeli is 1 too many on either side. Netanyahu is playing right to the religious fascist just like tRump did over here. Fuel hate, blame someone else and release. Palestinian forces have launched over 3300 rockets and killed somewhere around 10 people. Israeli forces have killed over 200, including at least 61 children, leveled 132 buildings and left 2500+ homeless.

 

[k0rps]

I don't think Ive seen anyone here are disagreeing with Israel/Netanyahu acting like dicks.

Im not drawing any conclusions about you so no worries on my end. I wish everyone the best and like to try to keep myself from just assuming everyone is a troll, while simultaneously understanding that it is just as likely that they are one.

View attachment 4903659

This guy is talking about how they are mostly seeing mostly a 'large decrease in engagement/reach'.

This is the same scam that right wing trolls use to say they are being silenced.

I am of the opinion that almost all accounts you don't personally know are people are just as likely to be a sock puppet troll account.

So if Twitter for example sees a person who posted a very real and very powerful video, and it gets picked up by these sock puppet trolls and spammed around the internet in a way to amplify that particular video in a way to entice more violence. By say sending it to very vulnerable people who the trolls know are on the verge of being willing to go do violence against very real injustices.

Doesn't it make sense that Twitter would then stop this propaganda (which just so happens turns out to be reality) from being inorganically spread?

Okay, i get your point. Thank you for explaining in a way that can be understood. Is another spamming bot stopped if say, the next new cat video was spammed? I wouldn't think so because it's playful and non-violent.
The real events happening in Gaza need to be shared, observed and CHANGED.

Social media is a very tangible way for people w phones to share their day-to-day living situations in Gaza. But they keep getting deleted.. continually. I get that social media doesn't like violence on their platforms but that's day-to-day life in Gaza.

Imho, Palestinians deserve a platform to be able to share their experiences and not shut down as propaganda or spam. What cost is it for social media companies to share Palestinians footage? If enough people saw the atrocities, I would think something would have to change..

 

[BudmanTX]

He's gotta point......

 

[k0rps]

Although he is catching flack for it, I like the way Trevor Noah put it.

That trev noah video was on post 3. Probably didnt do a good job selling the videos. Thank you for sharing again!