Grandmaster Level - HLG Quantum Boards vs 1000w HPS side by side (youtube)

[Johnnycannaseed1]

I would agree that all should be fed Optimal, which further discredits all of the "Side by Sides.

How so?

Have yet to see one done with leaf tissue analysis. How do you know for sure your not short changing the led plants by stuffing them with cal-mag when maybe they only need mag?
How do you know the hps plants are not on the verge of a "cal-mag" deficiency just because it is not showing in the leaf just yet?

How many hobbyists, or even low-end commercial growers bother with tissue analysis, is it even viable for them to do so at this level?

A good majority of us have grown for many years without the need for tissue analysis and for the most part, we can get by without it

It seems to me like you are clutching at a straws with a straw man fallacy?

So answer me this, are the people religiously clinging to led tying to state that led drives photosynthesis or "increases metabolic rate" to a rate higher than the sun??
Last time I checked most nutrients that work under the sun will also grow plants under hid lighting without deficiency issues popping up all over the place.

It looks like you are the one who is being religious lol. Clearly, you are ignoring the evidence and you are "fanatically" sticking to your position. The GML grow clearly shows a significant result, yet you are still faithfully/religiously clinging to your paradigm. Why?

Maybe you should try running the tests for yourself instead of wasting time presenting unfounded hypothetical arguments.

As far as I am concerned, and in light of the "evidence" HLG's claim that the 550 can replace a single-ended 1000 watter looks pretty solid from where I am sitting!

 

[ANC]

You grow donkey dicks on 300W before?

 

[Humple]

How so?



How many hobbyists, or even low-end commercial growers bother with tissue analysis, is it even viable for them to do so at this level?

A good majority of us have grown for many years without the need for tissue analysis and for the most part, we can get by without it

It seems to me like you are clutching at a straws with a straw man fallacy?



It looks like you are the one who is being religious lol. Clearly, you are ignoring the evidence and you are "fanatically" sticking to your position. The GML grow clearly shows a significant result, yet you are still faithfully/religiously clinging to your paradigm. Why?

Maybe you should try running the tests for yourself instead of wasting time presenting unfounded hypothetical arguments.

As far as I am concerned, and in light of the "evidence" HLG's claim that the 550 can replace a single-ended 1000 watter looks pretty solid from where I am sitting!

His arms should be tired from all the reaching he does.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

LOL I'm organic I don't use calmag

I use Roots Organics Elemental and Uprising Foundation for CalMag. You definitely still supplement Ca and Mg in organics. Are you referring to synthetic, chelated CalMag?

 

[Humple]

I use Roots Organics Elemental and Uprising Foundation for CalMag. You definitely still supplement Ca and Mg in organics. Are you referring to synthetic, chelated CalMag?

Depends on the style of organic growing, wouldn't you say? Many water-only growers don't supplement at all, choosing to rely on a living soil.

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

His arms should be tired from all the reaching he does.

Sure does seem like a lot of reaching, and into thin air from what I can see

 

[Humple]

Sure does seem like a lot of reaching, and into thin air from what I can see

Some people cling to their paradigms against all reason or evidence. It isn't just that they don't want to believe - they want to NOT believe. Seems like his mind was made up a long time ago. Or maybe he's just trolling. Either way, I've come to the conclusion that it's a waste of time and energy to even discuss it with him.

 

[OneHitDone]

Some people cling to their paradigms against all reason or evidence. It isn't just that they don't want to believe - they want to NOT believe. Seems like his mind was made up a long time ago. Or maybe he's just trolling. Either way, I've come to the conclusion that it's a waste of time and energy to even discuss it with him.

It's clear that several of you are oblivious to the larger spectrum picture and have a one track mind that cannabis is the be all end all deciding factor for determining the "best" lighting. Well think again... Many plants don't like the lighting you preach about and your too ignorant to expand your lighting knowledge to cover a broader base of plants on this planet.
Yes bro, I LED too and don't hate them

 

[ANC]

Blurple is just fine for growing lettuce, other than having to look at it.

 

[OneHitDone]

Blurple is just fine for growing lettuce, other than having to look at it.

Care to demonstrate and elaborate on what you define as "blurple". There are so many blue:red ratio's and quality of products on the market.

 

[ANC]

That's an easy one.... anything blue purple pinkish.
But yes, I am aware there have been a few limited studies that show some plants like some spectrum better than others.
I bet that if they look further all plants will have a changing light demand that coincides with their natural growing season.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Depends on the style of organic growing, wouldn't you say? Many water-only growers don't supplement at all, choosing to rely on a living soil.

They still need Ca and Mg in the soil. A plant will not grow without complications and deficiencies without it. No matter what. It’s required to produce chlorophyll. Living soil still has to contain Ca and Mg, no matter the source.

 

[wietefras]

Who cares that plants grown under led need a slightly higher ratio of calcium? How on earth is that a bad thing? Current nutrients have been formulated for use with HPS light mostly. So you just add a bit of calcium or you get nutrients which already have a higher calcium ratio. Big deal.

Never seen an issue with magnesium uptake myself (under fluorescent bulbs I did though), but if needed then add some of that too.

Stop pretending that it's somehow a sign of "bad lighting". Claims like that are merely a sign of ignorance.

 

[Humple]

They still need Ca and Mg in the soil. A plant will not grow without complications and deficiencies without it. No matter what. It’s required to produce chlorophyll. Living soil still has to contain Ca and Mg, no matter the source.

Agreed. I guess it's the semantics of "supplement" that is key here. I think of supplementing as adding inputs during growth, rather than pre-amending the soil. But I understand what you're saying.

 

[Humple]

Who cares that plants grown under led need a slightly higher ratio of calcium? How on earth is that a bad thing? Current nutrients have been formulated for use with HPS light mostly. So you just add a bit of calcium or you get nutrients which already have a higher calcium ratio. Big deal.

Never seen an issue with magnesium uptake myself (under fluorescent bulbs I did though), but if needed then add some of that too.

Stop pretending that it's somehow a sign of "bad lighting". Claims like that are merely a sign of ignorance.

There's a certain breed of HPS fanboy that will caterwaul the most tenuous of complaints, insisting against all reason that LED simply cannot beat HID. And they're just as frustrating as the LED fanboys who act like their lights are magic, and that anyone running HPS is a fool. Invariably, neither demographic owns up to their very obvious bias, instead just side-stepping evidence and arguments to the contrary.

 

[InTheValley]

They still need Ca and Mg in the soil. A plant will not grow without complications and deficiencies without it. No matter what. It’s required to produce chlorophyll. Living soil still has to contain Ca and Mg, no matter the source.

Ive learned recently, calmag is over emphasized with the use of LEDs. If you run your grow area over 83F, then it MIGHT be needed, if your under 80F (84leaf temp), there is a good chance you wont need it.

The higher the Leaf/ambient temp, the more transpiration, the more cal they go thru.

GrowMau5 discussed this on the roundtable.

Heat-metabolizism-transpiration-=more use of nutriants,=goes thru more calmag because the leafs are pulling it at a higher rate with higher transpiration. If your light uses IR, which heats the leaf more then the rest of the spectrum, will again, eat more calmag. This is why its necessary to use calmag with Perfect Sun, because he has IR diodes.

Ive actually noticed this first hand with my current grow. I havent used calmag under my PS mini, and u can see it. Where as when i didnt use the Mini, and used my COBS, seen no sign of difficancy.

Perfect Sun mutates the plants to be honest.

So, if ur running High temps, ( 81F+ ambient = 85F leaf interior) and low humidity, more then 1.8 jpw, IR, definitly use it. If you run your area cooler, or using blurple, ( some have IR) you MIGHT need it.

Just relaying my take on what Ive learned. If im wrong, right me.

 

[ANC]

If you use chelated calcium you won't have to push anything, otherwise, calcium is just a passively transported ion that goes where the water goes.

 

[InTheValley]

Im MegaCrop, so I guess its chelated, at 17ppm per gram,

 

[wietefras]

@InTheValley I think you got that backwards. Calcium uptake is passive. So the higher the transpiration, the higher the uptake of calcium. ie more heat = less chance of calcium def.

Not all nutrients are taken up passively. Which means the ones taken up passively will need to be present in a higher ratio when the heat on the leaves is less.

That's why plants under heat radiating HPS bulbs don't usually show Calcium def and plants under Leds more often do.

Of course it also depends on the nutrients used and it's calcium ratio's. Some nutrients are relatively lower in calcium than others. I switched to a nutrient with higher calcium content (Yara) and I don't need to add anything anymore.

 

[zypheruk]

Im currently adding calcium nitrate at about 2 grams per 20 litres along with canna base nutrients, growing in coco under white led and not having any problems from seed to harvest. Does what it does and that's perfect for my grows.
No calmag from a bottle. I used to use calmag all the time as im in soft water area tap 0.2 ec, and the plants where never what I call at their best.
I currently have plants in veg using an off the shelf easy to find here in the uk all purpose plant food called Phostrogen and all I can say is so far so good and a lot cheaper to use than Canna A+B. Nice healthy plants. Im not saying this is perfect in any way, it's just something I wanted to try. Plenty of ways to skin a cat, just takes some balls to get off the hype rails we get fed about cannabis.