HLG vs HGL Side By Side

Before we begin id like to thank Cammie from HGL & Stephen from HLG for giving me/ us this oppertunity. Takes balls fir sure. Those of you who don't know, HydroGrowLed is back. Cammi has been Making Waves with a shocking display of light give aways to growers whom will mostly provide side by side documented grows vs. the TopDawg of RIU, voted by the community. Whom of course is no other then our very own, well known QuantumBoard Creator himself, drumrole pls..... @Stephenj37826 & @robincnn. Proprietors of HLG.
So, there's so much to say about how like HGL is a founder of led grow lights over a decade ago breaking gpw's that we have a tough time with today. I remember believeing from memory that these are Not just Claims.
HLG, stepped up light distribution & electrical efficiency of their fixtures with the QB platform. Forcing many competitors to follow suit & creating a Monster QB trend. There are many who vouche for these boards & very nice grows to back them up. They have recently started to enhance their white spectrum using 630's & 660's as well as a higher K Temp., making a sweet full cycle grow light.
HLG uses a white phosphor based led as their Horticultural Lighting Solution, Whereas HGL uses Red/Green/Blue tech. Creating a spectrum specifically designed by the owner Cammi using a mathematical equation based on Nasa studies on tomatoes. Research Theory further backed up by A Plants absorption chart that appears pretty accurate & I think can be proven. Showing how much of each nm the plant uses & a ton of stuff she could explain better.
HGL'S lights are here & HLG'S new light will Premier here Thur or Fri I'm hoping. $5 admission! Lol!
Never had to say this but in this particular case i will: Pls Be respectful & keep the hate to a minimum.
So we'll start with a little HGL since they're up n running for almost 2 days now in veg.
Short on time for intro but they'll be plenty more to follow.
HGL recommended & provided x4 of their 84x models (150w) 1'x1' panels using their 3x special lenses to cover a 4x4.
Only RGB is used in these lights.
Here's what my 4x4 would approx look like based on HGL's many par Charts.
My spacing will prob be a lil further tho.

Not bad coverage at all but for them its more about spectrum. Being the key to heavy yields & plant health. Cammi says this light quality is far more important then quantity/spread, or electrical system efficiency.
Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere HGL?
Came shipped fast, like real fast & was well packed with protective Foam & extra corners built onto the box. (I tore off) This Package to cover a 4x4 is small & easy on shipping I'd imagine .
12"x12" Panels SideVeiw 105• Lens/Diode array Bigger bubble encapsulation/primary lens, Edison style build? Backside using screen to cover fans & Daisychainable. 33" height reviled exactly a 33" coverage area. Sooooo, ummm.
They'll be veg to follow. Then to flower!
Thanks to all for tuning in. I will do my very best to maintain even parameters in every way possible to me.
Oh,PS i got that LedDefficiency thing down now so now worries. Took me long enough tho. Damn!

Bout fuckin time

My old 357 Magnum has some Edison chips.

so how is this gonna get done?

2 4x4 tents? 4 clones in each from the same mother at same height?

same veg time?

same bloom time?

weigh the results?

i don't make predictions

..don't listen to dock talk

and only observe results

just don't mess round with new nutes bro

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:

just don't mess round with new nutes bro

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bet he does!

i think we all know whats going to happen.

Good luck hybrid

HGL vs HLG!

They sure are hard to tell apart when stoned and dyslexic lol.

Hey hgl got a vote! Good for them

Feels like we're back in 2012 with crappy epileds and pmma secondary lenses. No contest really, spd won't make up the large efficiency disparity

Good luck hybrid

Good luck, please try to really keep this as uniform and consistent as possible for the most accurate results.

I know it wasn't part of your plan, but in my opinion, for what it's worth, you should cut a fresh batch of clones and really run a true side by side. Full growth under the respective lights, In the same grow conditions, with the same nutrients.

Thundercat said:

Good luck, please try to really keep this as uniform and consistent as possible for the most accurate results.

I know it wasn't part of your plan, but in my opinion, for what it's worth, you should cut a fresh batch of clones and really run a true side by side. Full growth under the respective lights, In the same grow conditions, with the same nutrients.

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I would say same amount of nutrients is unfair the hlg outputs so much more light the plants will be able to handle more nutrients if you starve 1 side just to keep it the same the results won't be accurate.

Ryante55 said:

I would say same amount of nutrients is unfair the hlg outputs so much more light the plants will be able to handle more nutrients if you starve 1 side just to keep it the same the results won't be accurate.

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Dude I didn't say anything about the same amounts. Obviously you want to grow happy healthy plants, why would you starve one. That wouldn't accurately show the outcome of this test.

You are also assuming the HLG will outgrow the HGL because it outputs more light and you are ignoring the point of this test. The claim is the HGL will allow faster better photosynthesis with a plant-focused spectrum, which would actually lead to it needing more nutes than the QB plant.

Honestly I would be tempted to set up both lights so they were providing similar PPFD footprint on my canopy to really determine which spectrum grew better plants. Not just who can throw more light at the situation.

The whole point of this is comparative accuracy. Not just who's got the bigger light.

Thundercat said:

Dude I didn't say anything about the same amounts. Obviously you want to grow happy healthy plants, why would you starve one. That wouldn't accurately show the outcome of this test.

You are also assuming the HLG will outgrow the HGL because it outputs more light and you are ignoring the point of this test. The claim is the HGL will allow faster better photosynthesis with a plant-focused spectrum, which would actually lead to it needing more nutes than the QB plant.

Honestly I would be tempted to set up both lights so they were providing similar PPFD footprint on my canopy to really determine which spectrum grew better plants. Not just who can throw more light at the situation.

The whole point of this is comparative accuracy. Not just who's got the bigger light.

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Some one that get's it!

I’m along for the ride! Good luck with the grows.

Sphere is ready for testing.....

hybridway2 said:

Before we begin id like to thank Cammie from HGL & Stephen from HLG for giving me/ us this oppertunity.

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You're very welcome, although I recall things a little differently. We offered the opportunity to test our lights against whatever HLG light you wanted to choose from your own arsenal (as you have more than one). Then when Stephen found out he decided he would send you a new light, rather than allowing you to compare an "off-the-shelf" model you already own, that anyone can purchase from him (and many other growers already have). The new light from HLG is undisclosed - we don't know how he's modified it, how many mono LEDs he's trying to beef it up with, why he's making the changes, or why he didn't have confidence in the lights you've already been growing with (which you seem quite pleased with) to test them against our products. All we know is he's doing the same things others said I would do (but didn't) - sending out a modified panel for testing that's not an off-the-shelf model already being sold.

hybridway2 said:

So, there's so much to say about how like HGL is a founder of led grow lights over a decade ago breaking gpw's that we have a tough time with today. I remember believeing from memory that these are Not just Claims.

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Your memory serves you correct. Our lights were achieving 1.3 - 1.7 grams per watt in the hands of novice growers back in 2009/2010. Likewise there wasn't a single HID side-by-side where we did less than double the GPW of HID. There are many peer-reviewed, independent grow journals that demonstrate this from forum members on ICMag, 420Mag, RIU, Grasscity and several other smaller forums (some of which are linked in my signature). Now I won't claim that everyone can achieve these GPW numbers, because we all know that every strain of cannabis has a different yield/thc profile (and every grower is of a different skill set), but it's easier to do high GPW with heavy-yielding strains than connoisseur strains if GPW is what you're going for.

hybridway2 said:

HLG, stepped up light distribution & electrical efficiency of their fixtures with the QB platform. Forcing many competitors to follow suit & creating a Monster QB trend. There are many who vouche for these boards & very nice grows to back them up. They have recently started to enhance their white spectrum using 630's & 660's as well as a higher K Temp., making a sweet full cycle grow light.
HLG uses a white phosphor based led as their Horticultural Lighting Solution, Whereas HGL uses Red/Green/Blue tech. Creating a spectrum specifically designed by the owner Cammi using a mathematical equation based on Nasa studies on tomatoes. Research Theory further backed up by A Plants absorption chart that appears pretty accurate & I think can be proven. Showing how much of each nm the plant uses & a ton of stuff she could explain better.

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I'd be more than happy to dive into the science after the test is complete, rather than starting a debate on it now that would detract from your journal. The premise behind our spectrum is pretty straight-forward.

1) Use wavelengths with the highest absorption rate by Chlorophyll A, B and Carotenoids, and green with the highest quantum efficiency.
2) Use LEDs with the highest relative umol output (per watt - not a umol/joule calculation) in their specific wavelength.
3) Balance the ratios of Red, Green and Blue for the highest yield in the shortest cycle length (based on NASA research).
4) Balance the ratios of Red to Far Red to Stimulate the Emerson Enhancement Effect among other plant benefits.

Our competitors who have been preaching the "church of white" have come to realize the error in their ways, and are now trying to re-build our science by slowly replacing white LEDs with other wavelengths to boost production, rather than building their entire light with these wavelengths (as doing so would greatly increase their cost to manufacture significantly).

hybridway2 said:

HGL recommended & provided x4 of their 84x models (150w) 1'x1' panels using their 3x special lenses to cover a 4x4.
Only RGB is used in these lights.
Here's what my 4x4 would approx look like based on HGL's many par Charts. My spacing will prob be a lil further tho.
Not bad coverage at all but for them its more about spectrum. Being the key to heavy yields & plant health. Cammi says this light quality is far more important then quantity/spread, or electrical system efficiency.
Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere HGL?

Click to expand...

The PAR graphs provided are an estimate based on readings taken every 6" under the fixtures on a 4x4 grid. The outermost readings are the edges of the 4x4. The light map you showed is demonstrating a 3.5' x 3.5' core lighting area with the lights spaced 6" edge to edge. I have stated I would allow up to a 9" x 9" spacing which will help you achieve a full 4x4 core area using 560W (each panel draws about 140W), or 35W per square foot. The lights can be used as high as 18" during veg, but should remain at 12" above the canopy during bloom.

Our focus has always been on 2 primary aspects of lighting:

1) Spectrum (summarized above)
2) Penetration (intensity over vertical distance)

We believe that the quality of light and it's ability to be absorbed by the plant is the most important aspect of grow lights. We also believe that the higher your penetration, the better your results. Higher penetration results in more leaf layers receiving photons for absorption, and a higher number of available photons at every layer of the plant. The better a light penetrates through a leaf, the more efficiently the spectrum will be absorbed by light harvesting pigments. To accomplish this we use a compound secondary optic we dubbed the X-lens.

Efficiency is also an important area for us as mentioned previously - we select top-bin LEDs of the highest relative output in each wavelength we use to ensure the highest conversion of electrical energy to growing power. Even PPFD is also a goal, but secondary to spectrum and penetration for us.

hybridway2 said:

Bigger bubble encapsulation/primary lens, Edison style build?

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Yes, we use the Edison-Style High Power LED package for our chips. We have found it to be the most efficient package for most LED chips, although the LZ1 package from LEDEngin has performed slightly better with some wavelengths (albeit the cost is much too high to warrant the small gain in efficiency). We have tested Oslon, XPE, Platinum Dragon, Diamond Dragon, Rebel, NCS, LZ1, LZ4 and many other packages from Cree, Osram, Philips, Nichia and LED Engin (many of whom use the same chips we do). Comparatively against these other packages, the Edison-style we use has a higher optical and thermal efficiency resulting in higher output per watt with the same chips.

I'm very much looking forward to your grow test and appreciate the time and effort you are putting into it for all of us here on RIU. I wish you all the best and will try to refrain from posting much on this thread. I feel our lights can do most of the talking from here.

my lip is sore.

HydroGrowLED said:

1.7 grams per watt in the hands of novice growers back in 2009/2010

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got any journals/threads/evidence/links/unicorns?

Is there a date of manufacture anywhere?

There is no type of light that will create consistently "better" results with every type of plant. Some plants will respond to a certain spectrum....others, not so much. So many conditions need to be met and attended to with each and every plant of each and every grow, for this reason. Even growers who grow only one strain will attest to differences among the plants of that strain. Maybe the water....Maybe the substrate....Air circulation....No light can become the nurse of every other growing parameter.

At the end of the day, if one plant under one light grows an inch or two taller or yields a gram or two more than the plant under the other light, then it's really not going to mean much.

I know a guy who has been using regular fluorescent shop lights to grow his weed -forever. He said that he started using them because, back in "the day", you would be suspect for buying an HID bulb....But, everyone had shop lights and buying fluorescent tubes wasn't anything to raise suspicions. After years of using them for so long as a part of his methods, he still gets great results. If it ain't broke....

Personally, between the HLG and HGL, I would pick the light that doesn't need fan cooling. The fewer moving parts, the better! I have several fan-cooled LED fixtures, but then I bought a Nextlight and that sold me on the no-fan style!

It seems like, right out of the chute, there is going to be controversy over this comparison due to the accusation that the light Stephen sent is some kind of souped-up version of their regular product, as opposed to the "off-the-shelf" HGL light...So here we go again!

@HydroGrowLED was the 1.7 gpw an auto? thanks for the links, had a quick flick - i'll look properly when i get in.