Why do Bernie Babies deny helping Trump get elected?

SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
How do you know that? Has Brazille, DWS, or Clinton said that?

Not when you consider the context of the race. A virtually unknown politician from Vermont against the former first lady, former senator, and former SoS who everyone in America has known of for two-three decades. Clinton smashed O'Malley, Chaffee, and Webb.
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Now you're launching into opinion again.

Sanders was destroyed in a landslide, this is verifiable fact.

Please try to move on, it's sad.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
You get your information and process it. Polls are just another source of information. They are actually pretty good at telling us what the overall public opinion is at that time. I think its good to use both but you just want to use your own viewpoint.

Polls in the past, which I'm sure are all you remember did have some problems with accuracy. Also, some polls are slanted specifically for purposes of propaganda but that's easy to tell by looking up the source.

So you go ahead and live in the past. Put your blinders up and make decisions by "using your gut". That's fine. It's not very smart but its fine.
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Opinion polls are useful when they are used to drill down into why something happened. For example this report:

Explaining White Polarization in the 2016 Vote for President: The Sobering Role of Racism and Sexism
http://people.umass.edu/schaffne/schaffner_et_al_IDC_conference.pdf

In this report they provide insight into why Trump won. Polling data is presented with statistical analysis and back-up data to show the results are consistent with other studies that are independent of this one. The study looks at a result in several ways to help the reader understand the conclusions of the report.

What you present is some open ended opinion poll based upon an open ended question and you use it to make a prediction. What you say is: 60% want free health care therefore "the country will support universal healthcare". What you left out is, when the same question is asked but framed with increasing taxes or government control, the result flips to 60% against. I'm not calling you a liar, I think you didn't know that. I think you stopped reading when you found the answer you wanted, in other words you are blinded by confirmation bias.

You use opinion polls stupidly, Pad. Like the drunk leaning against the light pole, using it for support instead of illumination.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
The rich are soaking us now, that's better?

You can lie all you want, just don't expect me to believe you.
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^^^LOL, can't you read? Where in my post did you see me say anything like what you responded with?

Fogdog said:
Soaking the rich to pay for expanding health care to everybody would be a really good way to go.
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I'm not lying when I say that I think "Soaking the rich to pay for expanding health care to everybody would be a really good way to go."

What part of " Soaking the rich to pay for expanding health care to everybody would be a really good way to go." Don't you understand?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Opinion polls are useful when they are used to drill down into why something happened. For example this report:

Explaining White Polarization in the 2016 Vote for President: The Sobering Role of Racism and Sexism
http://people.umass.edu/schaffne/schaffner_et_al_IDC_conference.pdf

In this report they provide insight into why Trump won. Polling data is presented with statistical analysis and back-up data to show the results are consistent with other studies that are independent of this one. The study looks at a result in several ways to help the reader understand the conclusions of the report.

What you present is some open ended opinion poll based upon an open ended question and you use it to make a prediction. What you say is: 60% want free health care therefore "the country will support universal healthcare". What you left out is, when the same question is asked but framed with increasing taxes or government control, the result flips to 60% against. I'm not calling you a liar, I think you didn't know that. I think you stopped reading when you found the answer you wanted, in other words you are blinded by confirmation bias.

You use opinion polls stupidly, Pad. Like the drunk leaning against the light pole, using it for support instead of illumination.
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You dismiss the Harvard-Harris report that shows Sanders approval rating among different demographics, his highest approval ratings coming from African Americans and Hispanics, then claim his policy positions don't do anything that resonate with those communities since they voted for Clinton during the primary. That's your entire reasoning to dismiss the study, backed up by statistical analysis and independent research.

No, actually what I've presented are from well respected polling institutions like Gallup, Pew Research, and Public Policy Polling, etc. None of the questions are open ended, they are all very specific. Using this information, historical trends, and the success of such healthcare systems in other modern countries compared to the US, it's obvious what works and what doesn't. There are even some Republican congressmen who believe if they don't pass healthcare reform 'Berniecare' is inevitable.

Opinion polls are used to determine the opinion of the population, that's exactly how I use them. The ones I cite are backed up by scientific analysis and statistical data. If you disagree with the methodology, say so and point out why, you don't get to just throw out the results because you don't like them.


Also;



You were arguing the exact opposite thing you are now about the value of opinion polls just a year and a half ago, about Bernie Sanders for fucks sake
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
You dismiss the Harvard-Harris report that shows Sanders approval rating among different demographics, his highest approval ratings coming from African Americans and Hispanics, then claim his policy positions don't do anything that resonate with those communities since they voted for Clinton during the primary. That's your entire reasoning to dismiss the study, backed up by statistical analysis and independent research.

No, actually what I've presented are from well respected polling institutions like Gallup, Pew Research, and Public Policy Polling, etc. None of the questions are open ended, they are all very specific. Using this information, historical trends, and the success of such healthcare systems in other modern countries compared to the US, it's obvious what works and what doesn't. There are even some Republican congressmen who believe if they don't pass healthcare reform 'Berniecare' is inevitable.

Opinion polls are used to determine the opinion of the population, that's exactly how I use them. The ones I cite are backed up by scientific analysis and statistical data. If you disagree with the methodology, say so and point out why, you don't get to just throw out the results because you don't like them.


Also;



You were arguing the exact opposite thing you are now about the value of opinion polls just a year and a half ago, about Bernie Sanders for fucks sake
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The Harris poll is open ended. Sanders wasn't running against anybody in that poll. It was just "do you like Sanders?". Also no election going on, so not really useful.

Sanders was well liked by people even when he was trounced by Clinton who was not. So, why should anybody care that people like Sanders? His mom would, I guess if she were still alive. Again you use polls to support your pre-formed opinion.

The polls I talked about in May, 2016, pertained to preference of one candidate against another. Very different kind of poll.

You aren't very good at this.
 
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st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
You dismiss the Harvard-Harris report that shows Sanders approval rating among different demographics, his highest approval ratings coming from African Americans and Hispanics, then claim his policy positions don't do anything that resonate with those communities since they voted for Clinton during the primary. That's your entire reasoning to dismiss the study, backed up by statistical analysis and independent research.

No, actually what I've presented are from well respected polling institutions like Gallup, Pew Research, and Public Policy Polling, etc. None of the questions are open ended, they are all very specific. Using this information, historical trends, and the success of such healthcare systems in other modern countries compared to the US, it's obvious what works and what doesn't. There are even some Republican congressmen who believe if they don't pass healthcare reform 'Berniecare' is inevitable.

Opinion polls are used to determine the opinion of the population, that's exactly how I use them. The ones I cite are backed up by scientific analysis and statistical data. If you disagree with the methodology, say so and point out why, you don't get to just throw out the results because you don't like them.


Also;



You were arguing the exact opposite thing you are now about the value of opinion polls just a year and a half ago, about Bernie Sanders for fucks sake
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:lol:
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
The Harris poll is open ended. Sanders wasn't running against anybody in that poll. It was just "do you like Sanders?". Also no election going on, so not really useful.
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You dismiss open ended polls because they disagree with your opinion. You have yet to explain the fault in the methodology that justifies it. This poll took place right after the election, again, also not relevant to the credibility of the poll. Sanders consistently ranks high in approval rating before, during, and after an election. It seems as if you're grasping at any little thing you can in an attempt to dismiss it without ever actually arguing against the substance of the issue, like you usually do.

Do you deny the fact that Sanders is the most popular politician in America? If not, isn't this opinion poll correct in its conclusion? If so, how can it be flawed as you claim it is?
Fogdog said:
Sanders was well liked by people even when he was trounced by Clinton who was not. So, why should anybody care that people like Sanders?
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Sanders was unknown to most people before the primary. Clinton was internationally famous. You can't deny the name recognition, the DNC shenanigans, propaganda, and a mix of other variables led to her victory. You're implying that if people love Sanders and hate Clinton, but voted for Clinton over Sanders in the primary, that must mean the polls are wrong. That's a completely fallacious argument on its face
Fogdog said:
The polls I talked about in May, 2016, pertained to preference of one candidate against another.
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cite it
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
the answer is:

Clinton beat Sanders by 3M, cheating; she beat Trump too by 3M but lost. for all practical purposes, the same 3M..her deal with the devil backfired; she forgot to cover one thing with that 3M and karma reminded her for stealing.

Clinton is now coming to a Costco milk aisle near you.
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Please decrypt this so that us normies can read it.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
You dismiss open ended polls because they disagree with your opinion. You have yet to explain the fault in the methodology that justifies it. This poll took place right after the election, again, also not relevant to the credibility of the poll. Sanders consistently ranks high in approval rating before, during, and after an election. It seems as if you're grasping at any little thing you can in an attempt to dismiss it without ever actually arguing against the substance of the issue, like you usually do.

Do you deny the fact that Sanders is the most popular politician in America? If not, isn't this opinion poll correct in its conclusion? If so, how can it be flawed as you claim it is?

Sanders was unknown to most people before the primary. Clinton was internationally famous. You can't deny the name recognition, the DNC shenanigans, propaganda, and a mix of other variables led to her victory. You're implying that if people love Sanders and hate Clinton, but voted for Clinton over Sanders in the primary, that must mean the polls are wrong. That's a completely fallacious argument on its face

cite it
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LOL Election rigged. effin Sanders crybabies. Its the job of the candidate to convince voters to give the candidate their vote. Sanders did not. He lost by a whopping large margin.

Binomial, single choice polls don't mean much if anything. Given the choice of yes or no, I like Sanders. On a scale of 1 to 5 where 1 means I don't like him, I'm about a 2. I still like him but not much. The polls you love to cite are just a popularity contests that have no prize. Oh and the popularity contest had no other people in it

African Americans and Hispanics said they like Bernie Sanders. Yet, when they had the opportunity to vote for him they chose Clinton. At the time of the Southern primaries, Sanders was well liked but lost so badly his campaign never recovered. .

I'm sure he will be well liked with the election season begins too. He might even win. That all depends on who he's running against, not an opinion poll about likeability. Again, the Harris poll you cite was simple yes or no and Sanders wasn't ranked against anybody else. It's like a hot cup of cocoa on a cold night. Very comforting to you, I'm sure.

Padawanbater2 said:
You're implying that if people love Sanders and hate Clinton, but voted for Clinton over Sanders in the primary, that must mean the polls are wrong. That's a completely fallacious argument on its face
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^^This is really funny. I said nothing of the sort.

I don't say the poll is wrong, I say any conclusion about how people will vote or act based upon the poll is as good as one made by flipping a coin. The poll is meaningless, not wrong.

He packs them in at rallies. Maybe likeability is a good predictor that people will show up and wave signs.
 
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SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
LOL Election rigged. effin Sanders crybabies. Its the job of the candidate to convince voters to give the candidate their vote. Sanders did not. He lost by a whopping large margin.

Binomial, single choice polls don't mean much if anything. Given the choice of yes or no, I like Sanders. On a scale of 1 to 5 where 1 means I don't like him, I'm about a 2. I still like him but not much. The polls you love to cite are just a popularity contests that have no prize. Oh and the popularity contest had no other people in it

African Americans and Hispanics said they like Bernie Sanders. Yet, when they had the opportunity to vote for him they chose Clinton. At the time of the Southern primaries, Sanders was well liked but lost so badly his campaign never recovered. .

I'm sure he will be well liked with the election season begins too. He might even win. That all depends on who he's running against, not an opinion poll about likeability. Again, the Harris poll you cite was simple yes or no and Sanders wasn't ranked against anybody else. It's like a hot cup of cocoa on a cold night. Very comforting to you, I'm sure.



^^This is really funny. I said nothing of the sort.

I don't say the poll is wrong, I say any conclusion about how people will vote or act based upon the poll is as good as one made by flipping a coin. The poll is meaningless, not wrong.

He packs them in at rallies. Maybe likeability is a good predictor that people will show up and wave signs.
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Sanders is a nobody now, there's younger progressives in the party that actually get shit done and can point to it and say "I did this, Sanders just talks".
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
the answer is:

Clinton beat Sanders by 3M, cheating; she beat Trump too by 3M but lost. for all practical purposes, the same 3M..her deal with the devil backfired; she forgot to cover one thing with that 3M and karma reminded her for stealing.

Clinton is now coming to a Costco milk aisle near you.
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Ok. I'll bite, how did she cheat?

As a note, you are completely missing the point, unsurprisingly.
 
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