What ph should runoff water be?

legalcanada

legalcanada

Well-Known Member
theres different conversion factors for all different industries (depending on the chemical being measured) but those 2 (500/700) are most common for hydroponics. it's how they compensate for different salts. EC should just be used because it's always constant.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Daveindiego said:
I’m about ready to throw the entire House and Garden nutrient line AND coco in the garbage.

Part of the reason I started in Coco was I was told it’s an easier medium to work with for beginners.
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It is never the nutes or medium. You are simply overfeeding. Drop everything but the base nutes and feed like we all keep telling you brother.

The thing that helped me the most was understanding that we are feeding the medium. Not the plants directly. They only need what they need to grow. Adding more than that only hurts the plants.

So we start real low and gradually increase feed until we see some leaf stress related to fertilizer like yellow tips that would lead to tip burn and back off.

I read my plants to know what to give. Not the bottles. But when I was learning I started at 25% and gradually went to 50% strength. Then back down for ripening. And I don’t like additives. Only coco needs additional cal mag as it holds on to those elements more than peat.

I got 15 oz beautiful buds with happy frog, the botanicare kind trio (which the 3 bottles confused me and caused me stress at the time) and the Jorje Grow book. And from Greenhouse Seeds autos.

Too much overthinking and over attention to the plants is many times the main problem.
 
Daveindiego

Daveindiego

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
It is never the nutes or medium. You are simply overfeeding. Drop everything but the base nutes and feed like we all keep telling you brother.

The thing that helped me the most was understanding that we are feeding the medium. Not the plants directly. They only need what they need to grow. Adding more than that only hurts the plants.

So we start real low and gradually increase feed until we see some leaf stress related to fertilizer like yellow tips that would lead to tip burn and back off.

I read my plants to know what to give. Not the bottles. But when I was learning I started at 25% and gradually went to 50% strength. Then back down for ripening. And I don’t like additives. Only coco needs additional cal mag as it holds on to those elements more than peat.

I got 15 oz beautiful buds with happy frog, the botanicare kind trio (which the 3 bottles confused me and caused me stress at the time) and the Jorje Grow book. And from Greenhouse Seeds autos.

Too much overthinking and over attention to the plants is many times the main problem.
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Thanks for the response.

I guess my confusion continues because again, I have scaled back nutrients to half, or less, recommended.

I see what you say, and will scale it back even further. But again, after I finish up this House and Garden stuff I have, I’m done.

Oh, and btw, I do add Cal Mag to my nutrient mix. I had a batch that for some reason I stopped at the end, but have since been using it throughout my growth cycle.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
Ok. 0.5 scale. Easy. Anyone else wanna tackle this guys problem? You guys know whats up. Hes over feeding and not getting enough runoff. And getting low pH and high salt return.
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He is over feeding. And has been told in a few different threads. I tried explaining again above.

I saw that his plants had started to recover but he added to much back after again.

We have all gone round and round like this at some time I suspect.
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
I suggest mixing up 500 to 600 ppm of base nutrient only and pH to 6.0 and pour 2 to 3x the gallon amount of nutrient solution to the pot gallon size. For instance...a 3 gallon pot..6 to 9 gallons of solution. You prolly dont even need that much. Coco is easy to leach (flush). Then check runoff when your done. Make sure both your tds and pH meters are clean and calibrated. When your done get back to us with the last pour of solution return. The numbers.
 
Daveindiego

Daveindiego

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
I suggest mixing up 500 to 600 ppm of base nutrient only and pH to 6.0 and pour 2 to 3x the gallon amount of nutrient solution to the pot gallon size. For instance...a 3 gallon pot..6 to 9 gallons of solution. You prolly dont even need that much. Coco is easy to leach (flush). Then check runoff when your done. Make sure both your tds and pH meters are clean and calibrated. When your done get back to us with the last pour of solution return. The numbers.
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You mind checking out my thread before I attempt to do what you’re recommending? I’m pretty sure I have already done what you’ve said.

I just had my pH meter calibrated days ago, and it’s ‘incredibly accurate’, and I have two separate TDS meters that provide the same numbers.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Daveindiego said:
Thanks for the response.

I guess my confusion continues because again, I have scaled back nutrients to half, or less, recommended.

I see what you say, and will scale it back even further. But again, after I finish up this House and Garden stuff I have, I’m done.

Oh, and btw, I do add Cal Mag to my nutrient mix. I had a batch that for some reason I stopped at the end, but have since been using it throughout my growth cycle.
Click to expand...

I was the opposite of you when I started. I read so many burned plant threads and warnings in books that I became a chronic under feeder.

I had early micronutes deficiencies and yellow plants. But less is more. I still could add more and the plants greened up.

When we add to much the plants get sick and it is much harder to turn them around. Best course of action is to keep them a bit hungry rather than always full. Gives you a “problem” buffer kind of. They will quickly take what the needed that they were missing.

Over nutes already. Salts are blocking the roots and they can’t uptake elements until it is removed. And their burned roots heal. Burns on leaves means roots burned first.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Daveindiego said:
You mind checking out my thread before I attempt to do what you’re recommending? I’m pretty sure I have already done what you’ve said.

I just had my pH meter calibrated days ago, and it’s ‘incredibly accurate’, and I have two separate TDS meters that provide the same numbers.
Click to expand...

Good advice. That will help remove the salts. But I caution the ppm. I would still suggest half of that for his plants.
 
Daveindiego

Daveindiego

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
I was the opposite of you when I started. I read so many burned plant threads and warnings in books that I became a chronic under feeder.

I had early micronutes deficiencies and yellow plants. But less is more. I still could add more and the plants greened up.

When we add to much the plants get sick and it is much harder to turn them around. Best course of action is to keep them a bit hungry rather than always full. Gives you a “problem” buffer kind of. They will quickly take what the needed that they were missing.

Over nutes already. Salts are blocking the roots and they can’t uptake elements until it is removed. And their burned roots heal. Burns on leaves means roots burned first.
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And I thought that this was the direction I was headed by, IMHO, drastically cutting back on the nutrients.
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
Daveindiego said:
I poured 8 gallons in my 3 gallon pot. The next day I did the same for different plants, but added a finisher gallon of nutrient.

My pots are 75% coco, 25% Perlite.

I have been consistently feeding at half recommendation of nutrients.
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How much runoff ? Did you ever check ppms on runoff?
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
zac graves said:
I'm still a newb too but they'll probably roast you if you don't have pictures. Take one of the whole plant and another one where the leafs look like butt
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Screw the roasters. Everyone has to learn. Ignore the impatient one's.

Daveindiego said:
I’m about ready to throw the entire House and Garden nutrient line AND coco in the garbage.

Part of the reason I started in Coco was I was told it’s an easier medium to work with for beginners.
Click to expand...
I support that. Soil is more forgiving, and easier to start with/understand.

As far as nutrient line goes. You'll get a multitude of "suggestions"......

For synthetic's - - -

I might say Botanicare KIND or PRO. Hesi is a very excellent line for beginners - They chart for cannabis! So does Canna.

If you go Hesi.....Drop the ROOTS/root complex or booster (red or orange bottle) and SuperVit and use 5ml per gal. of Kelp extract instead. Drop it at the week after the flip.
I like Maxicrop seaweed or better yet, Technaflora Thrive Alive B-1 green...
Follow the charting exactly and have 0 problems.
If you use RO - add 3 - 5 ml of Ca/Mg per gal. as a buffer to the water, then your nutrients. No added silica in soil is needed!

Take a look at how Hesi feeds in soil here.....see the daily feeding and by amount part?

 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
Hanna has a newer one out I was checking online last night. The Hanna Groline HI9814. A pH/EC/& temp meter. The probe is all in one with a shorter cord. Ive had a Bluelab Combo forever thats sweet but I can't stand the seperate EC and pH probes with the long ass cords. Always getting tangled. It's a nice meter though. Got the Bluelab case for it as well. Simple to operate. Simple to calibrate. But this Hanna Groline looks to be the bees knees for about 250$. The automatic shutoff can be programmed to your liking..the Bluelab just shuts off after so long..and ususally in tje middle of me setting a tank. Not a big deal but its a nuisance. The Hanna Groline even comes in a kit with a cool green rubber case like a cell phone. And the kit comes with all the cleaning and storage satchets. And the calibration can be done regular way or a one step process with one satchet for both pH and EC calibration. I would like to have 2 meters anyways. One for the veg room and one for the flower rooms. Plus it's nice to have a couple quality meters together to see how they both read with a fresh solution sample test for accuracy. I dont really fuk with testing runoff or substrate slurry tests..maybe once in awhile I will stick the EC probe into some rockwool or coco runoff to get an idea of the buildup salt EC I want out of there (if runoff EC is 0.2 to 0.4 higher than target on my return and plants look healthy I just keep chugging with my normal runoff routine). But its not often...only new strains maybe that I dont know yet. I kinda have a method where I know ballpark whats coming out from what I put in and whatnot. Been doing it for so long with my keeper cultivars. I know em like the back of my hand. But I do rely heavily on my Bluelab for all my nutrient solution makeups. Stock tanks..refills and resets. You know what Iam talking about. And this new Hanna Groline..I have a spot in my systems for its use.
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Interesting to be sure. As an old fart. I tend to find change as difficult - lol. Yet that sounds great for hydro......The multimeter pens have issue's. Like the probe's are sensitive to dry out and tend to need to be replaced if they do.....Not cheaply either. Not really for soil, other then a slurry test. I don't like waiting soo......The one you found seems to remove that pen problem.... NICE!
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
Just double check it again... It is important to water till you get runoff, slow and long watering works better than fast. If your pots are freely draining you cannot put too much water in the coco.
 
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