What ph should runoff water be?

Daveindiego said:

I poured 8 gallons in my 3 gallon pot. The next day I did the same for different plants, but added a finisher gallon of nutrient.

My pots are 75% coco, 25% Perlite.

I have been consistently feeding at half recommendation of nutrients.

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I tried to tell you before that half the recommended nutes is often the most theplants can take at peak flower even.

If my runoff read so high I would leach with fresh water like you did but resume feeding at like 15% strength and only slowly go back up if the plants needed it.

What you put back in is still twice too much for a salt locked plant to recover on.

Fuck the flushing argument. It is indicative of not understanding standard gardening practice.

Leaching is the proper word for removing excess salts. Watering is the term for well, watering.

Just give water only once or twice and resume feed at 15-25%. You want maybe 6-800 ppms goin in and coming out.

I grow pretty big plants with less. And only a base grow nute. You don’t need any of the additives to grow great pot. It’s all just myth.

And the additives added ppm tend to help blockbthe roots with more minerals.

Daveindiego said:

I’m about ready to throw the entire House and Garden nutrient line AND coco in the garbage.

Part of the reason I started in Coco was I was told it’s an easier medium to work with for beginners.

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It is easy. But your not using it right. And you don't know what your doing. If you want help in fixing and saving your crop...we need more info from you. Its not the nutrients or the medium your using. Trust me.

since1991 said:

Yes. Thats cool. But is it the 0.5 or the 0.7 conversion scale? Big difference in numbers. You need to find out so I can help you.

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Have zero clue what you’re talking about. Never heard of any conversion with TDS meters.

Daveindiego said:

:jj:

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I agree. Or a peat lite mix is even simpler like pro mix Hp and a base nute. Don’t even need cal mag.

Daveindiego said:

I’m about ready to throw the entire House and Garden nutrient line AND coco in the garbage.

Part of the reason I started in Coco was I was told it’s an easier medium to work with for beginners.

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if you are having difficulty with coco i highly doubt it'll be any easier growing in soil for you. i don't even check or adjust ph when i water or feed (in coco/perlite) or TDS or EC. i have used maxibloom dry (1 part lucas formula) and megacrop both with great success.

since1991 said:

It is easy. But your not using it right. And you don't know what your doing. If you want help in fixing and saving your crop...we need more info from you. Its not the nutrients or the medium your using. Trust me.

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I appreciate your help, and desperately would like it.

I made a thread about this a couple days ago, let me bump it to take the conversation there, as I don’t want to muck up OPs thread with my problems.

Daveindiego said:

Have zero clue what you’re talking about. Never heard of any conversion with TDS meters.

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all TDS meters measure EC then convert using either 500 or 700 (or also 640/650)
1 EC will always be 1 EC with any meter, but 1 EC could be 500 PPM or 650PPM or 700 PPM depending on the conversion factor.

TDS generally refers to the 500ppm scale. The ppm 700 scale is based on measuring the KCl or potassium chloride content of a solution. The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content

FoxFarm company uses the 700ppm scale in their measurements, so if FoxFarm tells you to use 700ppm it would really be 500ppm on your scale (1EC) - if you want to use foxfarm nutrients with your TDS meter you will need to divide by 700 then multiply by 500 to get the number your meter should read

Look it up. Its very important to know what your tds meters scale conversion. All meters measure in EC. But for some dumb reason different brands take this number and convert it into a scale. Usually a x500 or x700 scale. Called a conversion factor. In order to throw some numbers around...you need to know what scale your particualr meter is using. Its kind of a big deal..especailly when trying to zero in on target ppm's...going in and coming out.

chemphlegm said:

I wonder if we all looked up the most troublesome substrate(coco) and a nutrient system with the most complaints(FF) to begin our first gardens?
Life got so much easier after those choices were rectified. my ph pen went on the shelf for good, no more deficiencies, no more overfeeding, no more coco and no more foxfarms goshdammit!

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I have never had a problem with fox farm nutes or soil. it is completely consistent in my experience. Pallet after pallet.

Storage and age of the bags is a problem with organic soil. I find the nutrients compromised by the soil bacteria in as little as 3 months. Then the soil can be out of balance.

And the nute 3 part bottles need to be used all together like the directions say or some elements are missing. The individual bottles are incomplete by themselves.

I don’t like their nutes much. They are full of sediment and labor intensive for a simple soil grow. But they grew good plants when I tried them. And the testing went to a grower friend and he had good results too.

It’s knowledge that need improving not a popular product.

legalcanada said:

all TDS meters measure EC then convert using either 500 or 700 (or also 640/650)
1 EC will always be 1 EC with any meter, but 1 EC could be 500 PPM or 650PPM or 700 PPM depending on the conversion factor.

TDS generally refers to the 500ppm scale. The ppm 700 scale is based on measuring the KCl or potassium chloride content of a solution. The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content

FoxFarm company uses the 700ppm scale in their measurements, so if FoxFarm tells you to use 700ppm it would really be 500ppm on your scale (1EC)

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This^^^

legalcanada said:

all TDS meters measure EC then convert using either 500 or 700 (or also 640/650)
1 EC will always be 1 EC with any meter, but 1 EC could be 500 PPM or 650PPM or 700 PPM depending on the conversion factor.

TDS generally refers to the 500ppm scale. The ppm 700 scale is based on measuring the KCl or potassium chloride content of a solution. The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content

FoxFarm company uses the 700ppm scale in their measurements, so if FoxFarm tells you to use 700ppm it would really be 500ppm on your scale (1EC)

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This is a TDS PPM meter only. There is no option to check EC.

I did buy an EC meter recently, but I’m having problems with reading it that I addressed in the thread I just bump d.

Daveindiego said:

This is a TDS PPM meter only. There is no option to check EC.

I did buy an EC meter recently, but I’m having problems with reading it that I addressed in the thread I just bump d.

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yes but all TDS meters measure EC - the only way to measure PPM of an unknown solution is by chemical analysis.

@since1991 the reason they use different scales is depending on the salt they use in their nutrient. 700 measures KCl and 500 measures NaCl

Using Fox Farm nutes with coco coir for newer growers I would not recommend. At all. Something like GH Cocotek...House and Garden Cocos..or Canna Coco Nutrients will make growing in coco alot easier for a noob. It can be done and is but...

Daveindiego said:

Have zero clue what you’re talking about. Never heard of any conversion with TDS meters.

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Ec is the standard. All ppm meters convert this figure from a couple of different equations.

Ppm is actually half or .5 of ec. 1.0 ec equals 500 ppm’s

However some nute companies like botanicare use the European conversion of .7. So 1.0 ec equals 700 ppm.

It’s stupid but you have to know the conversion factor of the company and the meter in use.

Or just get an ec reason meter.

My recs for feed strength are always figured in ec. (Electrical conductivity) and at a .5 factor.

If you read a county water report the ppms are figured at .5.

Hope this made sense. It’s pretry restarted but that’s the way it is.

legalcanada said:

all TDS meters measure EC then convert using either 500 or 700 (or also 640/650)
1 EC will always be 1 EC with any meter, but 1 EC could be 500 PPM or 650PPM or 700 PPM depending on the conversion factor.

TDS generally refers to the 500ppm scale. The ppm 700 scale is based on measuring the KCl or potassium chloride content of a solution. The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content

FoxFarm company uses the 700ppm scale in their measurements, so if FoxFarm tells you to use 700ppm it would really be 500ppm on your scale (1EC) - if you want to use foxfarm nutrients with your TDS meter you will need to divide by 700 then multiply by 500 to get the number your meter should read

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Sorry. I didn’t see you answered this already and made a post about it.

to use your TDS meter with foxfarm you will need to divide by 700 then multiply by 500 to get your reading.

if foxfarm tells you to feed at a ppm of 1000, you would want your meter to read 714.28 (1000/700)x500

or measure in EC - 1000ppm for foxfarm would be 1000/700 = 1.42 EC

Manufacturer Scale
Advanced Nutrients 700 scale

Botanicare 700 scale

CES/Cutting Edge Solutions 500 scale

Dutch Master 500 scale
Dyna-Gro 500 scale

FoxFarm 700 scale using dechlorinated tap water

General Hydroponics 500 scale using reverse osmosis water

General Organics 500 scale using reverse osmosis water

House & Garden 700 scale

Humboldt Nutrients 500 scale
Hydro Organics/Earth Juice 500 scale
Nectar for the Gods 700 scale
Rock Nutrients 700 scale
Roots Organics 500 scale
Rx Green Solutions 500 scale using distilled water
Soul 500 scale

Technaflora 500 scale

legalcanada said:

yes but all TDS meters measure EC - the only way to measure PPM of an unknown solution is by chemical analysis.

@since1991 the reason they use different scales is depending on the salt they use in their nutrient. 700 measures KCl and 500 measures NaCl

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The calibration buffer solutions? That makes since. I never knew why the different brands converted EC into a scale in the first place. EC is or should be the common tongue. Its confusing when talking tds/ppm for alot of newer growers. I speak in EC or 500 scale. That 700 or them 650's are just retarded in my opinion. Thanks for clearing that up btw!!!

since1991 said:

Using Fox Farm nutes with coco coir for newer growers I would not recommend. At all. Something like GH Cocotek...House and Garden Cocos..or Canna Coco Nutrients will make growing in coco alot easier for a noob. It can be done and is but...

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Yeah. They seperate the magnesium between bottles and I can see how the wrong ratio of the 3 bottles could make you go back and forth with calcium and magnesium issues. Leading to iron and phosphorus like it always does next.

legalcanada said:

to use your TDS meter with foxfarm you will need to divide by 700 then multiply by 500 to get your reading.

if foxfarm tells you to feed at a ppm of 1000, you would want your meter to read 714.28 (1000/700)x500

or measure in EC - 1000ppm for foxfarm would be 1000/700 = 1.42 EC

Manufacturer Scale
Advanced Nutrients 700 scale

Botanicare 700 scale

CES/Cutting Edge Solutions 500 scale

Dutch Master 500 scale
Dyna-Gro 500 scale

FoxFarm 700 scale using dechlorinated tap water

General Hydroponics 500 scale using reverse osmosis water

General Organics 500 scale using reverse osmosis water

House & Garden 700 scale

Humboldt Nutrients 500 scale
Hydro Organics/Earth Juice 500 scale
Nectar for the Gods 700 scale
Rock Nutrients 700 scale
Roots Organics 500 scale
Rx Green Solutions 500 scale using distilled water
Soul 500 scale

Technaflora 500 scale

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Nice additional post. Really helpful!

legalcanada said:

yes but all TDS meters measure EC - the only way to measure PPM of an unknown solution is by chemical analysis.

@since1991 the reason they use different scales is depending on the salt they use in their nutrient. 700 measures KCl and 500 measures NaCl

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My TDS meter uses the NaCl conversion factor