what is a polyploid plant? Treating seeds with Colchicine

so someone posted a link to a website that had some pretty interesting, yet confusing information on it... below is the article... my question is, what is this process actually doing to the plant seed? What are the advantages to a polyploid plant? Treating seeds with Colchicin
"You can employ a growth changer called Colchicine. This is a bit hard to get and expensive. (Should be ordered through a lab of some sort and costs about $35 a gram.) **** To use the Colchicine, you should prepare your presoaking solution of distilled water with about 0.10 per cent Colchicine. This will cause many of the seeds to die and not germinate, but the ones that do come up will be polyploid plants. This is the accepted difference between such strains as "gold" and normal grass, and yours will DEFINITELY be super weed. **** The problem here is that Colchicine is a poison in larger quantities and bay be poisonous in the first generation of plants. Bill Frake, author of CONNOISSEUR'S HANDBOOK OF MARIJUANA runs a very complete Colchicine treatment down and warns against smoking the first generation plants (all succeeding generations will also be polyploid) because of this poisonous quality. **** However, the Medical Index shows Colchicine being given in very small quantities to people for treatment if various ailments. Although these quantities are small, they would appear to be larger than any you could receive form smoking a seed-treated plant. **** It would be a good idea to buy a copy of CONNOISSEUR'S, if you are planning to attempt this, and read Mr. Drake's complete instructions."There you have it, someone please explain all this

ummm...

I am curious myself.. sounds fishy?

Polyploidy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Basically just ensures that the plant is stronger as far as i can tell.

ive read quite a bit on plant growth, and plant hormones for growth(gibberellic acid and promalin mostly). from what ive read you use Colchicine on seedlings to make plants mutate and the single biggest + from colchicine treatment is in something like 30% of the plants that made it to sprout had mutated into haveing more branches at each node.(sounds like a good mom plant) but ive read nothing about colchicine improveing THC%'s but, im no expert just some1 with waaay to much free time. lol
i dont know of anything that will make a plant "gold" or have uberTHC. ive read about things to help a plant convert CBD into THC.(UVB lighting) if you run across anything else on colchicine let me know. im all about the learnin. anywhoo hope this helps

and I assume the clones from one of these sprouted super seeds would have the same attributes?

MORE NODES/close nodal spacing.. would be AMAZING!!!

yup knome it changes the chromosome number of the plant its used on and that inturn changes the clones. there are a few ways to use colchicine (on seeds or on the bud sites themselves).ill show ya the links ive got on it, surely it will explain it better than i could.
Plant Hybrids #1
Polyploidy
Ortrun Mittelsten Scheid

i was just talking to my dad about this, and i couldn't remember the name of the chemical and he just said it and new exactly what i was talking about. He said his brother used to saok his seeds in it, or something. I'll ask and bring more info

(ps. im EUDORA) sometimes it shows up as TIMKIXASS

sweet tim, by seeds i hope u mean pot seeds. there is very little info out there about uses on marijuana. ive only found 1 study done on colchicine used on marijuana, and that was just about as 1/2 assed as a study can be. but now i cant even find that site. ill keep looking for it, but the info from some1 that has used it or saw it used first hand would be awesome.

Eudora said:

so someone posted a link to a website that had some pretty interesting, yet confusing information on it... below is the article... my question is, what is this process actually doing to the plant seed? What are the advantages to a polyploid plant? Treating seeds with Colchicin
"You can employ a growth changer called Colchicine. This is a bit hard to get and expensive. (Should be ordered through a lab of some sort and costs about $35 a gram.) **** To use the Colchicine, you should prepare your presoaking solution of distilled water with about 0.10 per cent Colchicine. This will cause many of the seeds to die and not germinate, but the ones that do come up will be polyploid plants. This is the accepted difference between such strains as "gold" and normal grass, and yours will DEFINITELY be super weed. **** The problem here is that Colchicine is a poison in larger quantities and bay be poisonous in the first generation of plants. Bill Frake, author of CONNOISSEUR'S HANDBOOK OF MARIJUANA runs a very complete Colchicine treatment down and warns against smoking the first generation plants (all succeeding generations will also be polyploid) because of this poisonous quality. **** However, the Medical Index shows Colchicine being given in very small quantities to people for treatment if various ailments. Although these quantities are small, they would appear to be larger than any you could receive form smoking a seed-treated plant. **** It would be a good idea to buy a copy of CONNOISSEUR'S, if you are planning to attempt this, and read Mr. Drake's complete instructions."There you have it, someone please explain all this

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many years ago ,i got some from a lab from a friend,and tried it on quite a lot of seeds,many did not make it ,but those that did seemed to be much larger than the others we had planted.
this was years ago,and from aussie bush seeds,they grew much larger and seemed to be behind the others in flowering but were very impressive to look at,as far as the end product which i would have smoked as they looked fucking wonderful,i can not comment as c.a.l.m or the forest dept you may call it, burnt off where i was growing as it was not far from a railway line,it never occured to me they would burn off as it was not far from someone who was keeping bees,but i guess he wasnt allowed to be there either as his hives went the same way ,i returned to water and it was black, for all my plants,and the guys bees up in smoke.
never tried it since but i believe it comes in tablets used for gout?also old info ,as i am no spring chicken .
so if you can get some give it a go,but i would not use expensive seeds as heaps did not germinate,but then the info was not available that is today,so you may have better luck ,i would not plant near a fucking railway line though,i had never seen a fucking train use it,and it looked unused,i planted about three hundred metres away,and the place was burnt to a crisp.

colch just makes sure u get a female (bombass weed)dont smoke the first generation of bud if u use colchcine, yes it can kill u.

hey, I just read this thread, hope still some people read it. Colchicine is a posion which inhibits microtubule formation during mytosis. After the chromosomes have duplicated microtubules steer their movements in to the 2 daughter cells. Colchicine inhibits microtubule formation, so both set of chromosomes stay in the same mother cell and mother cell does not divide. So voila, you have a duploid cell! Actually cultivating few cells in a petri dish, treating them with colchicine and choosing the most appropriate cell is the way to go. Then from that one cell, you produce a callus (a whole group of cells) and you can produce a new plant from that callus. This way, the new plant won't have any irregularities and dangerous amounts of colchicine.
You can also manipulate this process and try breeding different strains on cellular level and polyploid them again, (much more faster way of breeding) so basically what you can do is only limited by your imagination and the size of your lab. I will try to find some articles later, now I'm feeling a little lazy I would love to try all this one day in Amsterdam..

my old lady said give me twelve inches and make it hurt,so i put it in twice and punched her in the face......

uhh, in my college Bio class we learned polyploid. basically what happens is when the gametes are being produced and undergo meiosis(maybe you want to look up a little on that) nondisjunction occurs..that is when the chromosomes line up along the middle of the cell, they are supposed to move to the opposite sides in equal numbers(hard to explain)...nondisjunction is when one or more chromosomes sticks to another and gets pulled into the new cells as extra chromosomes. and all we were taught about that is that it will make humans have downs syndrome, etc. and it will make plants grow super strong. the strawberries we buy at the store are polyploid fruit, out in nature strawberries are super small... same thing happens with ganja

i want to try this

Helva said:

i want to try this

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Hi all, thought I'd look up polyploid marijuana on the net, after discussing it with a friend. At this stage I've only just started searching, but the reason I even know the word polyploid, is because a friend had a book in the late 1980's specifically on producing polyploid maryjane. The name of it was something simple, like Growing Polyploid Marijuana. I read this book several times and always wanted to give it a go, particularly given the photo on the cover. This showed a guy about six feet tall standing in front of a tree about 20 feet tall. The tree was a polyploid marijuana plant, grown outdoors in a season. Many of the buds were at least 2 feet long, and as thick as Hulk Hogans arms. Its 20 years ago now, so forgive me if my memory is a little vague, but the book clearly described the process of soaking and germinating your seeds. The process consisted of soaking your seeds in a solution of alcohol (gin or whiskey I think) with these tablets crushed in(must have been colchicine, I'd never heard of it before). They were to remain in the solution a number of days (5 to 7, I think) and then be transferred to jiffy pots or whatever. It stated that for every 10 seeds, 2 would germinate, of these, one would survive. So be prepared to throw 40 or 50 seeds in to get a handful of plants. I forget now (too many years, too many cones), but I imagine back then, you would have pollinated the heads and reaped the seeds for the second and successive generations The book clearly stated that you were not to smoke the first generation. I got the impression that, not only was it poisonous, but could also cause permanent psychosis and brain damage. My recall of the text may be vague, but many of the photos in that book I will never forget. All the plants pictured were huge trees (grown outdoor) at least 12 feet, and the potency was supposed to be absolutely wicked according to the growers in the book. Hope this is of some use to someone out there, as I think it a waste not to do it, if you have the time, resources and inclination, you should always grow the biggest baddest plants your situation will permit!

Hmmm well I could probably do this if I could get some colchichine

if you remember anything from biology, you can hopefully understand this post. Colchicine inhibits microtubule polymerization by binding to tubulin, one of the main constituents of microtubules. Availability of tubulin is essential to mitosis, and therefore colchicine effectively functions as a "mitotic poison" or spindle poison.
That part may have lost you, but here's why that is important:


Since chromosome segregation is driven by microtubules, colchicine is also used for inducing polyploidy in plant cells during cellular division by inhibiting chromosome segregation during meiosis; half the resulting gametes therefore contain no chromosomes, while the other half contain double the usual number of chromosomes (i.e., diploid instead of haploid as gametes usually are), and lead to embryos with double the usual number of chromosomes (i.e. tetraploid instead of diploid). While this would be fatal in animal cells, in plant cells it is not only usually well tolerated, but in fact frequently results in plants which are larger, hardier, faster growing, and in general more desirable than the normally diploid parents; for this reason, this type of genetic manipulation is frequently used in breeding plants commercially. In addition, when such a tetraploid plant is crossed with a diploid plant, the triploid offspring will be sterile, which may be commercially useful in itself by requiring growers to buy seed from the supplier, but also can often be induced to create a "seedless" fruit if pollinated (usually the triploid will also not produce pollen, therefore a diploid parent is needed to provide the pollen). This is the method used to create seedless watermelons, for instance. On the other hand, colchicine's ability to induce polyploidy can be exploited to render infertile hybrids fertile, as is done when breeding triticale from wheat and rye. Wheat is typically tetraploid and rye diploid, with the triploid hybrid infertile. Treatment with colchicine of triploid triticale gives fertile hexaploid triticale.
When used to induce polyploidy in plants, colchicine is usually applied to the plant as a cream. It has to be applied to a growth point of the plant, such as an apical tip, shoot or sucker. Seeds can be presoaked in a colchicine solution before planting. As colchicine is so dangerous, it is worth noting that doubling of chromosome numbers can occur spontaneously in nature, and not infrequently. The best place to look is in regenerating tissue. One way to induce it is to chop off the tops of plants and carefully examine the lateral shoots and suckers to see if any look different.[7] If there is no visual difference flow cytometry can be used for analysis.


ok sorry for the incredibly long post. I know that colchicine is used to turn female flowers into hermaphrodites, so that you can make a female plant pollinate itself, but the seeds will all be either female or hermie, and you might need a male for further breeding with the plants from those seeds. I think i read somewhere that colchicine could be used to turn a male into a female as well, or that the seed treatment would make them female, which i understand because you would be doubling the X chromosomes, so it would at least be hermaphrodite, possessing female parts.



The best plant to get your colchicine from is called Colchicum Autumnale, the Autumn crocus. from my searches today, I found that it very hard to find seeds or bulbs for this plant, but i did find one source from the uk. the plant is native to some place in britain, (and some part of asia named colchis) that probably has something to do with it.

summary: Colchicine+seeds=Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchicine#cite_note-1

Helva said:

Hmmm well I could probably do this if I could get some colchichine

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well i posted something but Geneticist beat me to it. here's the missing info though: The best source of Colchicine is the Autumn Crocus, Colchicum Autumnale. Kinda hard to find, according to my google search today, but i did find one seed supplier. they bloom in autumn, and the seeds are what you crush and soak in water to make your colchicine solution, although there are other ways. I thought there was a Colchicum that made some kind of fruit that you could use for the colchicine content, but i can't find it.
maybe this post will actually post, the other was way too long.

ch33ch said:

yada yada.

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you can check it out at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchicine
I remember reading about some old studies with colch and herb. besides making sensi, it also produced a vine-like plant in some situations, and über-buds as well. it's the stuff they use to make fruits seedless.
it screws with the microtubules so that during cell division, after all the chromosomes are copied, the microtubules arent there to drag half of them into the new cell, so there is one cell with zero chromosomes and one cell with double. then through that process of cell division, that doubled chromosome cell doubles all those chromosomes(quadruple of the original chromosome number, until the division takes place), and divides normally, giving each half of the doubled-doubled, set of chromosomes, resulting in doubled chromosomes in all cells from then on.

if you made a polyploid plant with colchicine, then let it make seed with a normal one, the resulting seeds would be triploid, and infertile unless fertilized by another triploid. but then if you doubled them with colchicine, the outcome would be hexaploid plants, which i would like to see. but you need to do math to see what would make fertile children. if you come to a dead end, double with colchicine. normal cannabis: 2n=20, doubled, 2n=40. n from normal is 10 plus n from doubled is 20 then triploid offspring have 30. double that with colchicine, you have 60, breed with normal, babies have 40 again. or if you bred with the 2n=40, babies would have 50 chromosomes, and be in the same situation as the triploids with 30, with 2n=30, n=15, with 2n=50, n=25. i would like to see some large scale commercial grower, with colchicine, doubling chromosome count every year to see what they end up with, and just how many copies of chromosomes cannabis can have and what happens. when does it turn into weed trees, or vines. does it ever look like a different plant? strawberries never did, they still have the same leaf shape, they just made bigger fruit. and im posting here for no reason, as this thread is deceased.