what are the reasons people have a ron paul hard-on

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
I am in no way a anybody supporter as of now, but I do wonder if there is any proof against him just as I would love some proof for him. I have one request gentlemen let's stay adult about this not saying anyone isn't I just hate when it turns into an insult fest with no real knowledge, I am interested in both sides opinions.
I don't know what you mean by "proof". But his political platform is pretty clear. He supports unconditional free trade and free market economics. The proof is that he's said so.

Here's proof of his financial deregulation stance. This is from a letter he wrote in response to the bill Gramm-Leech-Bliley, which is the financial deregulation bill which repealed Great Depression Era regulations on banks, allowing banks to gamble on Wall St and become too big to fail, resulting in the financial crash and bail outs.

The better alternative is to repeal privacy busting government regulations. The same approach applies to Glass-Steagall and S. 900. Why not just repeal the offending regulation? In the banking committee, I offered an amendment to do just that. My main reasons for voting against this bill are the expansion of the taxpayer liability and the introduction of even more regulations. The entire multi-hundred page S. 900 that reregulates rather than deregulates the financial sector could be replaced with a simple one-page bill.
So there you go. Ron Paul supports dangerous and reckless financial deregulation measures.

Here is the proof Ron Paul supports free trade. He's talking about his opposition to NAFTA, but he's not apposing it due to the job loss it causes, but because it doesn't go far enough. He wants total and complete free trade.

[video=youtube;prtR-h8oKqU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prtR-h8oKqU&feature=player_embedded#![/video]

Free trade in combination with the deregulation of the financial services industry is responsible for much of the economic injustice, unemployment, stagnate worker wages, and the rise of the 1% that we have today. It's dangerous and I could never support any candidate for president who holds these values.

When it comes to fiscal issues, Ron Paul clearly lives in a bubble, only hearing what he wants to hear. He supports a very extreme version of right wing capitalism that most credible economists consider laughable. His ideas sound very appealing, but if you really stop and think about them.

Other than that I think he's pretty good on most social issues. But the damage he would do to the American people would be immeasurable. He would destroy the middle class. There would be a two class system with the ultra wealthy, and everyone else working poor. Socioeconomic mobility would come to an end. I know he appeals to a lot of people because he wants to legalize bud, but is that really worth the destruction of our middle class? I don't think so. Some things are more important than bud.
 

deprave

New Member
More Yellow Journalism your preaching lol - Fixed it for you -

"Free trade legislation in combination with the deregulation(doesn't allow for criminality but provides the bureaucracy that..continued) of the financial services industry (burrecracy that is responsible for much(ALL) of the economic injustice, unemployment, stagnate worker wages, and the rise of the 1% that we have today. It's dangerous and I could never support any candidate for president who holds these values. Thus why I only support Ron Paul, because he is the only one that really holds these values and lives up to them"
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
The OP is asking about Ron Paul, and you resort to an attack on his supporters. Just as juvenile as the media.
After all the repeated attacks I get for posting my opinions, it's hard for Ron Paul supporters to claim the high ground. I know you personally do not engage in that, but so many do that I think my comments are warranted. Any time I post anything that is even mildly inconvenient to Ron Paul supports I get endless attacks of random and usually untrue slander.

If everyone wants to elevate the level of debate here and end that nonsense, sing me up. I'll be happy to participate. But if someone hits me, I fight back.

Anarchy and Libertarianism are completely different. We don't consider Somalia heaven.
I disagree. How are they different? Both aim to achieve the least amount of government possible correct? Well how do they differ?
 

deprave

New Member
I disagree. How are they different? Both aim to achieve the least amount of government possible correct? Well how do they differ?
LMAO! Figures..wow you really don't know the difference..Un-fucking believable, I knew it. I repeat the difference over and over for months here.


ANARCHIST = NO GOVERNMENT AT ALL

LIBERTARIAN = Limited Government

No wonder you believe in all these crazy doomsday scenario conspiracy theories! I bet you think with Ron Paul the roads will go to shambles too don't you? We won't have people fixing roads? is that what you think? LMAO!


Libertarian or Anarchist?
Libertarians are often accused of being anarchists or asked what the difference is between a libertarian and an anarchist. The popular image of anarchy is unrestrained violence and looting. Libertarians take a stronger stand against violence and looting than any other political group including republicans and democrats. The early history of the United States with its severely limited government was strongly libertarian and completely different from this image of anarchy.
The misunderstanding on this issue comes from the ideal state of peace and productivity with no government interference imagined by many libertarians who forget that we are the only ones who can imagine it. In a libertarian society the evolution of voluntary institutions providing the few remaining government services might lead to the gradual elimination of government but this scenario is completely beyond the imagination of the general public and it harms our cause to confront them with such a startling vision.

Another thing I think your a little bit confused about....

Regulations DO NOT represent ALL laws against criminality. Regulations can be good or bad, more often then not bad... its the very reason we have huge mega corporations, it drives up the cost of healthcare and living.


This is why you highlight in your statement above "OMGZ Ron Paul supports FULLY DEREGULATED MARKS YA'LL! CHAOS AND ANARCHY!"

Please I encourage you just go to wikipedia and spend just a few minutes or hours under Political Philosophy section and stop believing these fraudulent journalist crap they feed you with their mincing of words just like you do!
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
That is my point exactly I find it hard to belive a politician can really be anything but that. One of my biggest hurdles to picking any of the imo subpar canidates they are all long time government people. Any man who desires to spend his life in politics has no buissness being in politics. I hear a lot of Ron Paul is for the constitution but there were term limits for a reason.
Best thing to do is decide what YOU want your government to do. Then find the candidate with the platform who fits your world view the best.

Also I am concerned about the radical talk I hear from his camp over this national defense act. I have read it and frankly I don't see where his points are coming from. Just to be clear I don't like the government having any more power.
The defense act gives the president unthinkable power IMO. It is clearly against the Constitution to put American citizens in prison indefinitely without evidence or a trial. However our supreme court is so terrible that it might stand. All a president has to do is declare an American citizen a terrorist, and he can throw him in prison for life without a trial. There are no standards for what the parameters for what a terrorist is in that law beyond the president labeling someone a terrorist. Potentially it could be used on just about anyone since there are no parameters, no over sight, no appeals process, nothing. It's a blatant abuse of power. I agree with Ron Paul supporters when it comes to that.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
More Yellow Journalism your preaching lol - Fixed it for you -
fuck you dude. It really is ok for people to have dissenting opinions.

Free trade legislation in combination with the deregulation(doesn't allow for criminality but provides the bureaucracy that..continued)
Guess what? You don't need to break a law if that law doesn't exist. Financial regulations ARE the safe guards that make ripping us off a crime. If you get rid of them, there is no need for criminality.


  • Thus why I only support Ron Paul, because he is the only one that really holds these values and lives up to them


So you think we'll all be "free" if we just get rid of all the rules that make it illegal for Wall St to rob us blind? That's insane.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
ANARCHIST = NO GOVERNMENT AT ALL

LIBERTARIAN = Limited Government
So basically, what separates libertarians from anarchists is the degree they want government limited. Anarchists want to get rid of government entirely where as libertarians want to get rid of most of it. Thanks for clearing that up.

Why do you seem to think typing in big bold print and switching colors makes your points more credible? It does not. Type like a normal person. Your posts read like a 5 year old got a hold of a box of crayons.
 

sync0s

Well-Known Member
After all the repeated attacks I get for posting my opinions, it's hard for Ron Paul supporters to claim the high ground. I know you personally do not engage in that, but so many do that I think my comments are warranted. Any time I post anything that is even mildly inconvenient to Ron Paul supports I get endless attacks of random and usually untrue slander.

If everyone wants to elevate the level of debate here and end that nonsense, sing me up. I'll be happy to participate. But if someone hits me, I fight back.
Take the high road man. I've tried multiple times to elevate the debate. I won't disagree with you that there are Ron Paul spammers that try their best to discourage it, but as in statistics the negative voice is always the most powerful. Remember that.

Not saying you're racist (so don't get me wrong on this point), but it is kind of like seeing a couple black people beat up a white guy and all of suddenly characterizing black people as being "thugs." A group generalization because of the representation of the noisy few is just wrong, no matter what way you look at it.

I disagree. How are they different? Both aim to achieve the least amount of government possible correct? Well how do they differ?
Well Anarchism is actually for no government at all, zero. Libertarianism seeks the minimal government necessary. Libertarians believe a government is absolutely integral to the protection of life, liberty, and property. Anarchists think that all you need is a gun and you don't need the government to do that. As a Libertarian I support SOME regulations (basically because that is what people of the left call them) like drinking and driving laws (because this is to protect other drivers, not the drunk) and fraud laws... but to the level that regulations have extended to is absolutely ridiculous and I recognize that it only serves to prop up monopolies and assert their dominance in the market.

This isn't a case of "ineffective regulation," because of the unintended consequences when you try to impose a large list of regulations essentially makes all regulations "ineffective." To write 2,000 pages of legal jargon for a new business owner to navigate costs a good portion of money to learn the ins and outs and will undoubtedly curb the desire for people to enter the market, where as the millionaires have plenty of money to not only understand the law but to find the loopholes in it to gain market advantage.
 

deprave

New Member
because its aggravating to repeat myself to you over and over. Please go study political philosophy for a few days, you will come back a libertarian.


" Financial regulations ARE the safe guards that make ripping us off a crime."

No They Are Not! This is illegal without regulations! A lot is illegal without regulations simply because of things like property rights.
 

sync0s

Well-Known Member
I can say as a native Minnesotan I am damn happy bachman is done (that bitch is crazy) and man between punk ass romney bitch ass Gingrich and imo crazy ass Paul I don't know how to feel about the choices oh and crazy is just how I see some things he says again that's just my opinion and I mean no disrespect to supporters of any of them.
I know, I'm Minnesotan as well and between Bachmann (crazy liar who seems to not care whether the bullshit that spews out of her mouth has any basis in fact what so ever) and Pawlenty, I agree that the country is better off with out them.

I understand people saying Ron Paul is crazy. His ideas aren't normal, that's for sure. My only rebuttal to it is that people once called Charles Darwin crazy (still do), as well as Nikola Tesla, as well as many other great minds in the history of the world.
 

deprave

New Member
So basically, what separates libertarians from anarchists is the degree they want government limited. Anarchists want to get rid of government entirely where as libertarians want to get rid of most of it. Thanks for clearing that up.
A lot seperates libertarians from anarchist. If you want the basically of it then...Libertarians recognize the need for governement and Anarchist do not, anarchist believe in a stateless society, Libertarians believe in constitutional rights and natural rights from governments, the right of the people over government, in humanity.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Take the high road man. I've tried multiple times to elevate the debate. I won't disagree with you that there are Ron Paul spammers that try their best to discourage it, but as in statistics the negative voice is always the most powerful. Remember that.
I'll try. It just annoys me that this place used to fairly reasonable. Now it's the Ron Paul forum. You've either got to be a fanatic or you're not welcome here. I get sick of the spam and the constant insults. I prefer to stick to discussing issues, but no ones having it these days.


Well Anarchism is actually for no government at all, zero. Libertarianism seeks the minimal government necessary.
I think I've yet to here any Ron Paul supporters support ANY regulations on the financial industry what so ever. They all seem to be free market extremists. Are ALL financial regulations really unnecessary?
 

deprave

New Member
Oh well since you put it in bold print it must be true.

I'm done sinking to your level. Good bye.
Its in bold because it makes it easier for you to distinguish its a quote without me having to type BBTAGS I just hit ctrl+b. Nice how your done sinking to my level when your the one first with the 'fuck you'...Nice to see you give up on your yellow journalism..you should go get a job at cnn or E-Weekly..Come back when you learn the basics of political philosophy and are fully converted to a libertarian after realizing you got sold out for garbage. Take the Red Pill Neo.
 

sync0s

Well-Known Member
I'll try. It just annoys me that this place used to fairly reasonable. Now it's the Ron Paul forum. You've either got to be a fanatic or you're not welcome here. I get sick of the spam and the constant insults. I prefer to stick to discussing issues, but no ones having it these days.
That was the intent of my topic about the 10 things people would do if they were president. Before I could even post my 10 things I already got turned off the topic by a post someone said they would just hire Ron Paul as their adviser and that was it. Drove me absolutely crazy. I haven't been posting in this forum for long either (Despite being a member for a few years), but I have seen those days.

I think I've yet to here any Ron Paul supporters support ANY regulations on the financial industry what so ever. They all seem to be free market extremists. Are ALL financial regulations really unnecessary?
Just as a libertarian I don't believe it's the governments job or concern to run the economy at all. Some things, like regulations against false advertising or fraud are perfectly justifiable in my mind because they are protecting the property of citizens essentially, but I understand those lines can be blurred on that justification.

To your question: not necessarily. Right now the regulations that we are trying to push are only serving to prop up monopolies as well as are only treating the symptom (like a Tylenol pill) rather than attacking the root of the problem.
 

deprave

New Member
I just happen to think Ron Paul is the best choice. It is not that I think he will for sure save us or that he is perfect, but I do think that he is really the only choice for Humanity PERIOD, the rest of them I feel are corporate hacks and its obvious. So this is frustrating for me, also people that think libertarians are anarchist or confuse the two really pisses me off..Dan you really place everyone into one category I am sorry, you call all Ron Paul people cultist and you think they are just blindly following him, I think your right about some but you ever think maybe they just don't have the time or the ability to explain it on the Rollitup Forums....

Look maybe he will screw us like every president or maybe he won't do jack shit, maybe he will be terrible....but the bottom line is that he is not a corporate hack, hes not your typical politician and he truly seems to be on our side and has good integrity and honesty. I am a liberal myself and you know if Bernie sanders was running or something I would be psyched about him or anyone else that's not a corporate sellout but Ron Paul is the only choice for the people for president this time. There is no other option.

This is why Ron Paul makes complete sense to me its because I have studied political philosophy. I am a libertarian because of it, I woke up from the false left/right para-dime, I started to see what they feed us, and I saw that Ron Paul philosophically stands with us while most other politicians do not.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Just as a libertarian I don't believe it's the governments job or concern to run the economy at all.
From a philisophical perspective, that makes perfect sense. From a practical standpoint, that makes no sense at all. The result of that would surely be disasterous for most of the people in this country.

Are philosophic ideals really more important than practical realities?

Our natural state is not equality or equal opportunity. Our natural state is to fight it out until there is 1 winner, and a bunch of losers. Economically that translates into a small ruling class, and a bunch of poor starving masses. Is that really what you want? Is obedience to philosophy really worth more than the prosperity of the American people?

A large middle class like we have here is an artificial creation. If we want to keep it, there needs to be government intervention. Look back throughout human history and you'll find that no large civilization has ever achieved a sizable middle class without the government stepping in.

Without the middle class, we do not have economic opportunity. A guy who has to work 15 hours a day just to survive is never going to start a company or invent a new product. The best and brightest in American will be nothing more than cheap labor to prop up the wealthy. That is not how a nation stays great. We are already headed in that direction now, how much further do we need to go?

The fact is that when America was at it's best was when our economy had the strictest regulations. There were still financial incentives and wealthy people, it was just limited. Do you really see 1940's-1960's as a dark oppressive time?

Why is it more important to obey this philosophy which creates huge economic injustice? Why is that more important than people?
 

fenderburn84

Well-Known Member
Damn step away for a few hours and the discussion goes wild lol. I would like to say I do 100% plan on making my vote. As for the points made both sides have had some interesting points. Minus the insults and slander, I have figured out where to start my journey of research. And harraken dude ill start a thread you pick the name and we can have a good old fashioned debate because obviously I disagree with your point. I have laid the gauntlet down, you tell me where and when, but remember sir it was not I who brought it up so no whining when your arguments fall apart. Let's be grown UPS this time. Otherwise guys like I said thanks for the views and thank G-D we still live in a land where we aren't rounded up for not agreeing. Peace to you guys I'm about to de-contaminate and head home ill hit ya up in the morning.(afternoon I guess)
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I don't know what you mean by "proof". But his political platform is pretty clear. He supports unconditional free trade and free market economics. The proof is that he's said so.

Here's proof of his financial deregulation stance. This is from a letter he wrote in response to the bill Gramm-Leech-Bliley, which is the financial deregulation bill which repealed Great Depression Era regulations on banks, allowing banks to gamble on Wall St and become too big to fail, resulting in the financial crash and bail outs.



So there you go. Ron Paul supports dangerous and reckless financial deregulation measures.

Here is the proof Ron Paul supports free trade. He's talking about his opposition to NAFTA, but he's not apposing it due to the job loss it causes, but because it doesn't go far enough. He wants total and complete free trade.

[video=youtube;prtR-h8oKqU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prtR-h8oKqU&feature=player_embedded#![/video]

Free trade in combination with the deregulation of the financial services industry is responsible for much of the economic injustice, unemployment, stagnate worker wages, and the rise of the 1% that we have today. It's dangerous and I could never support any candidate for president who holds these values.

When it comes to fiscal issues, Ron Paul clearly lives in a bubble, only hearing what he wants to hear. He supports a very extreme version of right wing capitalism that most credible economists consider laughable. His ideas sound very appealing, but if you really stop and think about them.

Other than that I think he's pretty good on most social issues. But the damage he would do to the American people would be immeasurable. He would destroy the middle class. There would be a two class system with the ultra wealthy, and everyone else working poor. Socioeconomic mobility would come to an end. I know he appeals to a lot of people because he wants to legalize bud, but is that really worth the destruction of our middle class? I don't think so. Some things are more important than bud.
You must be trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill because i don't think you understand the Position. RP doesn't want to get rid of every financial regulation oh no, not at all, he wants to get rid of BUSINESS STIFLING regulations. Now either you agree that ALL regulations are business stifling or you believe that SOME regulations stifle small business. NO WHERE AND IN NO QUOTE YOU WILL EVER FIND does RP say he wants to get rid of all regulations everywhere, saying he wants that is just making up lies, which you have been doing for weeks upon weeks now. Even after being corrected you still haven't learned anything, your ideas in no way reflect what RP wants to accomplish since your ideas are not his.

You find RP 's ideas completely wrong becasue you do not understand his position AT ALL!! You make up ideas and say that they are his, he says he wants to get rid of regulation that hurt small business and you interpret that as him wanting to get rid of ALL regulations. A person can only speak the words he speaks, if you are unable to correctly interpret the English language I suggest another crack at 3rd grade.

Fiscal issues? he wants it to be just like the Constitution mandates it to be. The system we have right now is the wrong one, it makes the rich rich and everyone else poorer, but somehow the Boob Tube has convinced you that this is the best way to live life, to be happy by being a slave to the system. So sure that your way of life currently must be the right path you are unwilling to release your bonds for even a taste of true freedom.

BTW if you haven't noticed, the world is a changing, the rich are getting richer, the middle class is on its way out, yet you defend the system to your utmost because anything else would mean change, and people are afraid of change, are you? Those people that voted for Obama wanted change, they didn't get any though, so that there proves that people are thirsty for something better, real change, not this sleight of hand magic trick change Obama promised.

The video says nothing about NAFTA not being "Free Trade" enough, but does discuss the fact that Congress has delegated some of its Authority on trade to the executive, at the same time he says it is the duty of Congress to protect us and our liberties. That would make it Constitutional, but I guess you are against the Constitution seeing as you don't like most of what RP stands for, which is basically the Constitution.

Dr Paul knows more about economics and financial services and central banking than 99.9999% of all people in the world.

NAFTA and WTO create special interests that use the laws to further their agenda and take money out of OUR pockets, Dr. Paul discusses this, but you seem to have missed it, just like you seem to have missed the point of the entire video which you linked.
 
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