Union Teachers Say The Hell With Students

Corso312

Well-Known Member
Bottom feeders = the absolute worst at your profession ..in regards to every public school system in the nation..Chicago has the worst schools...that is a fact not an opinion ..if you were in the pot growing biz and grew the worst green in the country..would you raise prices?
 

Krayven Sumhead

Well-Known Member
A friend of mine's two daughters are public school teachers.

One teaches somewhere in Wisconsin, has been there 3 years and has a salary of $36,000 per year.

His other daughter is getting her Masters and re-thinking her career choice.

He invested 100,000$ in their education for this kind of pay out??

I made 36,000$ per year, plus, being a Union Carpenter Apprentice back in 1978.

Everyone wants their children to have a good education, but few are willing to pay a little extra for that privilege.

Not too many well educated administrators are gonna be attracted to a 36,000$ per year career.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Bottom feeders = the absolute worst at your profession ..in regards to every public school system in the nation..Chicago has the worst schools...that is a fact not an opinion ..if you were in the pot growing biz and grew the worst green in the country..would you raise prices?
if it were a fact, you would have no problem posting citation of that.

but the fact is that you are lying.

yawn. too facile.
 

beenthere

New Member
It wasn't about collective bargaining, it was about the hypocricy of the right.

In particular, the teachers take issue with tying test scores with their pay or ability to work. I think it is difficult to judge a teacher's performance based upon thhe performance of students when there are so many other variables - don't you?
No I don't, seems to work just fine in the private schools systems that out perform the public school systems.


Whats your problem with teachers being payed? 50k is practically minimum wage these days. You suggest paying them less is the solution? I don't get it, your not looking at the problem, which has nothing to do with salary.
A teachers job is to teach students, like it or not, they know during their college years going into this profession is not all about the money.

You are looking two feet in front of you face deprave, the state of Illinois is $83billion in debt to unfunded public union pensions, if statistics prove that the kids in Chicago are lagging behind the national average, does it make sense to you to throw more damn money to the teachers? LOL
 

Corso312

Well-Known Member
If you seek money and get into teaching then you need your head examined...and 36k in wisconsin seems fair..no guns or students attacking teachers ..the parents are actually parenting in wisconsin for the most part..these kids for the most part have zero parenting...I have 2 sisters and a sis in law..2 ex girlfriends and dozens of friends who are teachers in the Chicago public schools...the stories are insane and almost unbelievable..one has 5 kids in her class that are hiv+ and these are 3rd or 4th graders..obviously the mom is a junkie and kids are in foster care..but the job blows..the conditions suck but of you can't do it..get someone who can..the funding is around 10k per student..that is plenty..I know you can get more for 10k a year per student than what these teachers are getting.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
If you seek money and get into teaching then you need your head examined...and 36k in wisconsin seems fair..no guns or students attacking teachers ..the parents are actually parenting in wisconsin for the most part..these kids for the most part have zero parenting...I have 2 sisters and a sis in law..2 ex girlfriends and dozens of friends who are teachers in the Chicago public schools...the stories are insane and almost unbelievable..one has 5 kids in her class that are hiv+ and these are 3rd or 4th graders..obviously the mom is a junkie and kids are in foster care..but the job blows..the conditions suck but of you can't do it..get someone who can..the funding is around 10k per student..that is plenty..I know you can get more for 10k a year per student than what these teachers are getting.
what, have the righties become socialists now? no cost of living increases, salary caps, etc?

still waiting on stats from you that verify your false claim, smarty.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
No I don't, seems to work just fine in the private schools systems that out perform the public school systems.




A teachers job is to teach students, like it or not, they know during their college years going into this profession is not all about the money.

You are looking two feet in front of you face deprave, the state of Illinois is $83billion in debt to unfunded public union pensions, if statistics prove that the kids in Chicago are lagging behind the national average, does it make sense to you to throw more damn money to the teachers? LOL
You don't suppose there are other criteria that perhaps make private schools better for children? The very fact that they are private schools tends to indicate that the parents take more responsibility for the child's participation. The child is likely monitored more closely by the parent, the child is likely fed better and nurtured in ways different than those children who are in public schools. I urge you to read a book called "outliers", it explains how environments as much as individuals themselves make a great deal of difference in terms of sucess.

Now according to your contention beenthere, oncologists should be paid according to the survival rate of their patients - right?
 

Corso312

Well-Known Member
I lived in Chicago my whole life until 5 months ago...I am well aware of what the cost of living is..and I am not righty...I have stated many times both parties suck and I do not vote.The teachers were offered a raise, I believe it was 12% over the next 4 years..seems fair imo...the pay is not the sticking point..they want the evaluations of teachers to change..which needs to be changed..you can't fairly evaluate a teachers progress on a single test when the students are walking through a war zone each day to school and have zero parenting....the whole system sucks and needs to change..I am not smart enough to have all the answers..but I know when something is broken and needs to be changed.
 

beenthere

New Member
You don't suppose there are other criteria that perhaps make private schools better for children? The very fact that they are private schools tends to indicate that the parents take more responsibility for the child's participation. The child is likely monitored more closely by the parent, the child is likely fed better and nurtured in ways different than those children who are in public schools. I urge you to read a book called "outliers", it explains how environments as much as individuals themselves make a great deal of difference in terms of sucess.

Now according to your contention beenthere, oncologists should be paid according to the survival rate of their patients - right?
Private schools don't put up with shit my friend, the kids and the parents are made aware of this from the get. If they fail to follow the rules, they are gone!
How much experience do you have with private schools?

Your oncologist analogy speaks volumes to your ignorance.
 

Corso312

Well-Known Member
Actually it was 16% raise over 4 years..not 12...even more fair....667 million education budget deficit so 16% seems more than fair....I would like to see them privatize the schools..it can't be worse..give it a try.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Actually it was 16% raise over 4 years..not 12...even more fair....667 million education budget deficit so 16% seems more than fair....I would like to see them privatize the schools..it can't be worse..give it a try.
16% over 4 years is what they are asking for.

try again, corso. maybe this time use facts.
 

Corso312

Well-Known Member
What is so funny about 36k being a fair wage for wisconsin teachers? you are aware that the cost of living in Wisconsin is far less then Chicago right?
 

Corso312

Well-Known Member
The strike by Chicago public school teachers is an illustration of the teachers’ union wanting its members to be paid without any evaluation of their performance.
In a city where unemployment has hit 11 percent, teachers are striking not over money, but over how they are evaluated and whether principals should have a say over which teachers work in their buildings.
Although the union disputes it, those are the two issues. And the teachers are wrong on both counts.
The city of Chicago has offered teachers a 16 percent raise over the four years, and has agreed to hire back tenured teachers who were laid off so Chicago schoolchildren can attend school more hours per day. The longer school day — implemented in some schools this year — requires at least seven hours of instruction each day. Previously, some schools were only in session for five hours and 45 minutes a day.
The average Chicago teacher’s salary is $71,000 per year. But that’s not the issue. In fact, good teachers are underpaid. Excellent teachers are grossly underpaid.
The key is to quit paying every teacher merely on their longevity and advanced degrees. Teachers should be evaluated on how well they teach.
One of the key issues is a state law that requires a new teacher evaluation system and that student performance on standardized tests make up at least 25 percent of that evaluation. Chicago teachers are balking at that idea.
There are issues with standardized tests and no system should rely solely on tests for a teacher evaluation. At the same time, these tests are one measure of how well a teacher performs. In some classrooms, student achievement on the tests improves year after year. In other classrooms, students tread water or their performance recedes. The difference, over the years, is the teacher. Those who move their students forward need to be rewarded. Those who don’t need to adopt new methods or, if performance issues persist, be encouraged to find another profession.
The other sticking point is allowing principals to select the teachers who work in their schools. Principals, who are measured on their school’s performance, need to have the right to hire the teachers that will help them succeed. Currently, the Chicago teachers’ union has a large say in where teachers are assigned. Some principals are understandably upset when they are assigned sub-par teachers, yet expected to improve a school’s results.
The union, in other words, doesn’t want teachers to compete for jobs. If principals are allowed to hire their own teachers, it will undoubtedly lead to the sub-par teachers being identified and “left behind.”
Evaluations based on objective performance data and competition for positions is standard in the business world. Most private sector employees are evaluated at least annually and are expected to meet certain standards. To varying degrees, pay is based on performance.
That’s the issue at the heart of this dispute. Chicago teachers want to be paid, but they are objecting to measures of their performance.
 

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
If I was required to raise and teach kids in a world where the children's home life consisted of watching tv for lack of adult involvement and nurturing,
and seeing that the on going profit wars between the Corps. and the little guy is a losing battle, I would want a raise, I've been spending my savings on school supplies for the students for 5 years, soon I may have too pick up the children and bring them to class.....
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Private schools don't put up with shit my friend, the kids and the parents are made aware of this from the get. If they fail to follow the rules, they are gone!
How much experience do you have with private schools?

Your oncologist analogy speaks volumes to your ignorance.

Educate me then Beenthere - what is the fundamental difference between results based pay in one case and... results based pay in another?
 
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