True High Pressure Aeroponic DIY Setup Or Commercial System..

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by kupos, Oct 23, 2010.

  1.  
    kupos

    kupos Member

    I've been looking for DIY plans for a Hp Aeroponic setup and there just isint any information out there or any company that sell Hp aeroponic units.. There was the Atomix system but they arent in business anymore! So my question is: Are there any good DIY setups with the best components money can buy, 100% true Aeroponic or a commercial system?!?
  2.  
    oh really???

    oh really??? Well-Known Member

  3.  
    Treeth

    Treeth Well-Known Member

    I don't know of any system available commercially aimed at hobby growers...

    It's pretty much DIY even at the university level still? This is one of those things where "only Cannabis" has the insane profit margins which could justify spending on such a high cost system. So this is tech which the Ag industry will be slow to adopt, which means you consumers will never see it; just like LED's.

    Basically, you have two routes to choose from: Either you can use a very powerful water pump, and a bladder tank, as well as overflow/overpressure controls/waste gates and expensive HP line sets; or you can go the air-assisted route. But before you consider either of those, you need to have environment NAILED, and that's not enough, because the Transpiration needs of the plant change constantly, meaning you cannot stick to one feeding schedule...

    The thing about the pumps/compressors of course is noise. Money gets dental air compressors however, which have tolerable db levels.

    Treefarmer's "my aero plug and play pods" thread somewhere is well over 100 pages of reading but should contain all of the industrial supply links which you're looking for. I personally have a nearly functioning set up, but I can't get environment nailed, or transpiration rates in line/ Flux, Humidity, Temp levels, & 'time of day' play a much more significant role in plant growth, the plant doesn't care about water delivery, and is just as happy if not more so in a nearly dry rockwool cube. Those fine root hairs cannot grow all over the place in an HP set up like they can in a cube, simply because there is no good way to evenly mist a plant, because no matter what, it's incredibly difficult to control the size of the water droplets shot at the root zone, especially considering the variation of flow looking at a cross section of what's being moved... There will always be heavy particle formation at any appreciable distance, from nozzle to root zone. Coverage in any container will not be even due to the inevitable flow of air/water movement around inside, which leads to larger droplet formation, etc. And then, the water drinking roots without hairs which form, can no longer grab onto enough of those light particles, so the plant ends up getting nothing and in my experience does not grow its way out of the problem.

    There are no formulas for success that are shared. IDK how fatman is doing.

    All these variables are begging for computer monitoring and sensors, etc, which are not even developed yet?, sensors & algorithms able to 'see' how the root zone is doing, how much moisture yet needs to be moved, and adjust timings dynamically. Medium-less growing is a relatively new idea, and the nutrient needs of plants specifically WITHOUT regions for microbiological fixing is aqueous biochem way beyond the understanding of anyone not university educated specifically in this area, and only recently too.

    True HP Aero opens up the black box of transpiration potentials which most growers have never had to consider before, and build systems to avoid... And with nutrient profile needs specifically not addressed by any cultivation 'company'.

    Be happy ignorant or you're quickly in the need of true professionals, of which I only know one, and even he isn't interested in this professionally.

    It really is a NASA project, but even they're just a front!
  4.  
    ToWeRdog and FloWeRGirl

    ToWeRdog and FloWeRGirl Active Member

    Now that is some impressive knowledge on HP aero. I took a break from this site for a while and I have not seen Fatman around at all!
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    puffntuff

    puffntuff Well-Known Member

    he got banned. hes banned everywhere
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    ToWeRdog and FloWeRGirl

    ToWeRdog and FloWeRGirl Active Member

    That does not surprise me one bit.
  7.  
    Treeth

    Treeth Well-Known Member

    Yeah that's too bad. These forums don't really support 'knowledge' anyways... More like the continual promotion of common sense, following "what can I buy in a store"?;

    I think the user base exploded over that time period too. Something called the 'endless september' problem? That the more users there are, the more legitimate posts and topics go unnoticed, if not hated in fatman's case.
  8.  
    puffntuff

    puffntuff Well-Known Member

    Fatman had alot of useful info. I'm using his dtw nutes now. I'm also doing a similar medium pressure aero using plywood and other things to give me a 8x4x2 box.
  9.  
    kupos

    kupos Member

    Thanks for the indepth info Treeth! Yeah its to bad that fatman got banned..!
  10.  
    High Pressure

    High Pressure Member

    WIld Wayne likes this.
  11.  
    Treeth

    Treeth Well-Known Member

    ... There were papers consistently cited by Fatman and others published by NASA that specifically called for 50-60 micron droplets, not the 0-30 produced by the aerobox people's patented nozzle assemblies. That is a pretty neat kit otherwise. One could definitely beat the 1000 dollar price point however, using the surplus Danfoss or Hago waste fuel nozzles, specifically the SN model. Where it gets complicated is trying to achieve consistency in droplet size and dosage. Fatman I'm sure has worked out a gravity feed method using multiple solenoids located at the nozzle and timer relays. However, one could use check valves at the same location, and be consistent without waiting for suction/nutrient solution 'rise' time -making use of the "siphon" properties of these nozzles.
    WIld Wayne likes this.
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    PetFlora

    PetFlora Well-Known Member

    I definitely disagree with much of what Treeth says, though it is a DIY, but Reptile Basics has a very nice starter system capable of running 1-4 pods for under $200.

    I have TAG/HPA journals on other sites. Now on my 3rd HPA (high pressure aero) grow, BUT it is my first having all the hardware in place from day one. Plus I have a feel for it now. Also my firstHPA not experimenting with a bunch of additives. I am using Dutch Master Gold A & B (G/F) ADD.27 (G/F), Silica and Liquid Light * Saturator following the DM Nutrient Calculator.
  13.  
    jjfoo

    jjfoo Active Member

    I want to set up the simplest aero system. Could I start with a diaphragm pump, misters, and a 5 gallon bucket? I want to get a feel for things before investing in more equipment.
  14.  
    puffntuff

    puffntuff Well-Known Member

    hey treeth what size hago or danfoss nozzles are you talking about???
  15.  
    kupos

    kupos Member

    Well c4rb0n i think the reason people prefer Hp to Lp is so that you can achieve droplet size of aboute 50 micron
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    MrMoores

    MrMoores Active Member

    I think this is a quest for perfection rather then practicality c4rb0n, and i like it, is the aim of high pressure aero to deliver water to the root at the exact size the root absorbs it ? so theres less time spent breaking down the water particles and faster uptake??
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    Michael Mummert

    Michael Mummert Member

    Finally!! I have been hunting all over for someone with this kind of info. I have some questions, but first info. on my system.
    I am setting up a medium to low pressure aeroponic with nozzles that are supposed to produce 50-55 micron droplets. I have created a root zone trough that is 22" wide, 18" deep and 16 foot long, folded in the middle to 8 feet down and 8 feet back. I have a 135 cfm bilge fan to move the mist around the root zone. Nutrient feed will be provided by several gang misters at the air input point and at several points (currently planning for a total of 4 stations at 4' apart but may double that). The timer is on 1 sec. to 60 min. and off 1 min. to 8 hrs. The pressure is from a pump tank system pressure switch controlled to 50-60psi. The condensed mist returns down the slopped troughs to a small in-zone reservoir (10"X8"X 2-3" deep) at the low end and is pumped up to the main reservoir with a condensate pump. I will also be controlling the atmosphere in which the green portion of the plant grows.

    I have three questions:

    1. How much airflow is too little and too much in the root zone and how does it affect root growth.
    2. Can I use this system to clone?
    3. What am I missing? Which means will this work? and if not what do I need to add?

    Thanks. I am ready to start but don't want to kill another batch of plants because I forgot something, and you seem the most knowledgeable person I have found on this subject.
  18.  
    Dipsomaniac420

    Dipsomaniac420 Member

    what did Fatman get banned for?
  19.  
    Bob Smith

    Bob Smith Well-Known Member

    Where did you find nozzles that produce 50m droplets at medium to low pressures?

    A pic of your setup would definitely help, as well as plant sizing/spacing, etc.

    As far as using it clone - sure, I'm sure you could (assuming you setup your misters correctly for good coverage), but why would you want a machine to do your cloning for you? Just build a little cloner and use your machine for veg/flower.

    I also use a condensate pump for my return, although if you're setting up a "true" aero pod, you should be able to do DTW, which is preferred (I retrofitted my rig to HP aero after I built it, so I have to use a recirculating setup).
  20.  
    foresakenlion

    foresakenlion Active Member

    Other than Fatman giving people bad advice about pressure relief valves that could potentially kill the less intelligent, as well as being defensive about being corrected on it, a correction that could save lives, he was an extremely knowledgable individual, and an asshole.

    If you want to make your own nutrient formulas, don't perscripe to his hackery, go check out hydrobuddy, get the root nutrients you need to make your own formulas, it's far cheaper than believing a bunch of nutrient companies hype.

    Air flow in the root zone dries it faster, so I don't know if that'd be a good idea, since you're already limiting moisture.

    Any HPA is a cloner, you can start seeds in this system running 24/7 or close to it in a medium that can soak the seed and support the seedling.

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