Triploids

Tektek

Tektek

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
I think were going to find many things to blame before the breeders, rna damage, hormone imbalances, ethylene gas, abscisic acid, pathogens, fungi, bacteria, bugs, environment etc etc.

Trying to relate a load of scientific mumbo jumbo to our specific grows is not easy, we just need the easy answers and what to do about it. Personally just tweaking your setup, soil and strains will get you there in the long run, theres not a lot more to it and keeps us on a base level. Lets leave all the science crap till were better growers basically.

Those leafy buds smoke like crap, its not ploidy, your plant reverted to normal growth, probably just grew enough to combat whatever was stressing it out, possibly some just mess up like that who knows.

I guess the easy route to blaming breeders or genetic mutations is why you dont see much alternative advice, weed sites can break your crop just as easy as make it. I dont have the answers whatsoever, just as many wrong threads as right too. Ive grown a lot of hermie seeds, repeatedly selfed strains, crossed plants and tried my hardest to make bad genetics, everything came out fine and the ultimate reason for a vast amount of bad stuff was just down to how good of a grower i was at that particular time. Like i use to see a lot of this stuff and tried to document what i can but over time most of these problems have just dissapeared, cant even remeber the last time i had a trifolate or whorlled bud. Seeds are like sweets in a candy shop, they all grow the same just a matter of what flavour you want.

Theres a cool strain called Dr Grinspoon (not for novices, i wouldnt even attempt it yet). Perfect conditions will give you cherry size calyxs but anything less than perfect conditions and you will never achieve her max size flowers. For me this is what genetics is more like, not some cauldron we can all get around and breed mutants and extra branches.


View attachment 3742319
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That looks like a fun plant to try.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
chronicals77 said:
That's what I heard. King, this is off topic but have you grown Money Bush by Heavyweight Seeds? Afgan x Critical Mass. Anyone else?
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Afghan yes ive grown, sensi had one and i think its in a few of their strains i like to grow. Critical mass never tried, probably a good reason why they crossed with an afghan. I try to limit myself to one or two strains that i always grow although i must get quite a few different strains as freebies or off friends in the space of a year. Most indica plants seem quite similar overall, i throw anything thats not, currently got lemon kush seeds of a mate, seems like most plants i grow, bit fussy at times. I like the more novice plants that deal with stress and problems easier, better quantity of bud.
 
Tektek

Tektek

Well-Known Member
chronicals77 said:
Repetitive generations can cause weakness and unstable genetics. Same as clones, you can repeat the same genetics by taking clones from clones, from clones but it will peak. After that peak the quality reduces with each generation or every few. You can only clone the same genetic for so many generations before it begins to decline. Its because that genetic gets older, and older, and older, and that maturity carries on.
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Maybe. But sometime,
A small isolated population of annuals, reproducing by seed, doesn't deteriorate. It could evolve, natural selection from environmental stress. Or die out from a volcano.
Healthy plants clone indefinitely. The standard example is apple trees used for dwarfing rootstock, over 100yrs, many generations globally. Too tired to get the reference.
Hard to keep a series of clones healthy and vigorous for decades.
I think side shoot cuttings could deteriorate a lot over generations. Sometimes cannabis doesn't recover well from hormonal changes, auxin etc. Or environmental stress that causes hormone changes.
Large vertical shoot cuttings with a large apical bud will maintain quality and promote large colas.
 
Dr.Pecker

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
I think were going to find many things to blame before the breeders, rna damage, hormone imbalances, ethylene gas, abscisic acid, pathogens, fungi, bacteria, bugs, environment etc etc.

Trying to relate a load of scientific mumbo jumbo to our specific grows is not easy, we just need the easy answers and what to do about it. Personally just tweaking your setup, soil and strains will get you there in the long run, theres not a lot more to it and keeps us on a base level. Lets leave all the science crap till were better growers basically.

Those leafy buds smoke like crap, its not ploidy, your plant reverted to normal growth, probably just grew enough to combat whatever was stressing it out, possibly some just mess up like that who knows.

I guess the easy route to blaming breeders or genetic mutations is why you dont see much alternative advice, weed sites can break your crop just as easy as make it. I dont have the answers whatsoever, just as many wrong threads as right too. Ive grown a lot of hermie seeds, repeatedly selfed strains, crossed plants and tried my hardest to make bad genetics, everything came out fine and the ultimate reason for a vast amount of bad stuff was just down to how good of a grower i was at that particular time. Like i use to see a lot of this stuff and tried to document what i can but over time most of these problems have just dissapeared, cant even remeber the last time i had a trifolate or whorlled bud. Seeds are like sweets in a candy shop, they all grow the same just a matter of what flavour you want.

Theres a cool strain called Dr Grinspoon (not for novices, i wouldnt even attempt it yet). Perfect conditions will give you cherry size calyxs but anything less than perfect conditions and you will never achieve her max size flowers. For me this is what genetics is more like, not some cauldron we can all get around and breed mutants and extra branches.


View attachment 3742319
Click to expand...
I've grown it, never seen cherry size calyxes. Finicky, hard to clone and pretty low yield. It'll get you high and you can smoke the stems. Fun to grow? yes. Would I try it again? Probably not.
 
Tektek

Tektek

Well-Known Member
Bud mutations are rare, but do happen.
About 60 yrs ago, a peach grower in Canada noticed 1 branch was different. Called his Ag Rep. This branch and its clones are Red Haven peaches.
Many hort plants are from bud mutations, in the nursery or wild.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Tektek said:
Bud mutations are rare, but do happen.
About 60 yrs ago, a peach grower in Canada noticed 1 branch was different. Called his Ag Rep. This branch and its clones are Red Haven peaches.
Many hort plants are from bud mutations, in the nursery or wild.
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I dont want to be a dick but this site is full of noobs who go on about mutations, shit genetics, crap breeders, hermies, purple stems and loads of other crap. Most if not all have little idea what a mutation is let alone the pay grade to comment on it here, hec just the sheer amount of dweebs that think they have polyploidy makes me laugh so hard, really need to grow up and stop making stuff up. Its because of this lack of knowledge that you cant work out weeds head from its tail, hermies and crap vex new growers. Tbh if i hadnt stepped in and pointed out the obvious on this thread it would have just led to a lot of bs info. Even know three other threads are being written on supposed mutations, such weak ass growers they ruin the industry with fake ass crap, legal states flood this site with noobs and the standard of the site suffers badly.

I had enough of this bs and need to find a more educated site or just stop using the internet altogether. Really it aint rocket science and i get bored easily with these dweebs, kill the hermie, blame the breeder, f'ing wet myself everytime some half ass posts that purple stems are health or genetic. What a waste of a great resource, ruined by those who dont know better!
 
chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
Purple stems can be attributed to numerous things. Sometimes it can be nutrient problems or fertilizer toxicity, cold weather, environmantal changes, and some phenos and some strains simply have purple in the stems, stocks, leaves, and/or buds. Knowing how to identify which is which is the difference.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Just to the original question, everything I've been able to read on these is that it's a mutation, nothing else and difficult to breed for the trait. I'm giving it a go with one of my crosses, just pulled 2 of 8 with the tri-leaf mutation. If nothing else because I like mutants, who knows, something cool could come out of it. Most of what I've found out there is bullshit through, claims of ridiculously high THC, huge yields, but no real data/studies on these. Here's how the one's I just recently popped started, the first one is a male, if I get a female for the second one I'll be crossing them just for the f**k of it and see what comes out the other end...

Harlequin x Blue Ripper (JTR xBlueberry) Tri-Leaf phenos
HDxBR-Tri-Leaf1-5-22-2016.JPG HDxBR-Tri-Leaf2-6-19-2016.JPG

Cheers :bigjoint:
 
chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
Just to the original question, everything I've been able to read on these is that it's a mutation, nothing else and difficult to breed for the trait. I'm giving it a go with one of my crosses, just pulled 2 of 8 with the tri-leaf mutation. If nothing else because I like mutants, who knows, something cool could come out of it. Most of what I've found out there is bullshit through, claims of ridiculously high THC, huge yields, but no real data/studies on these. Here's how the one's I just recently popped started, the first one is a male, if I get a female for the second one I'll be crossing them just for the f**k of it and see what comes out the other end...

Harlequin x Blue Ripper (JTR xBlueberry) Tri-Leaf phenos
View attachment 3742851 View attachment 3742852

Cheers :bigjoint:
Click to expand...
My WW x BB Tri-leaf looked just like that then all of a sudden at the 3rd node it reverted to normal. Im going to top it today or tomorrow.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
chronicals77 said:
My WW x BB Tri-leaf looked just like that then all of a sudden at the 3rd node it reverted to normal. Im going to top it today or tomorrow.
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The male so far continues to grow out with 3x leaves per node on the main and so far at 4x nodes the 2nd one is still putting them out as well. They're both growing with very tight/close nodes. It'd be interesting to see if I crossed a tri-male with a tri-female to see if the trait gets passed down the line.

HDxBR-Tri-Leaf2-7-26-2016.JPG
 
chronicals77

chronicals77

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
The male so far continues to grow out with 3x leaves per node on the main and so far at 4x nodes the 2nd one is still putting them out as well. They're both growing with very tight/close nodes. It'd be interesting to see if I crossed a tri-male with a tri-female to see if the trait gets passed down the line.

View attachment 3742886
Click to expand...
The innernodes were very short on mine as well until it reverted. I would like to follow the progression of your experiment if your going to follow through. I have heard the tri and quad traits does not pass down when cloned but that has all been rumors.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
chronicals77 said:
The innernodes were very short on mine as well until it reverted. I would like to follow the progression of your experiment if your going to follow through. I have heard the tri and quad traits does not pass down when cloned but that has all been rumors.
Click to expand...
Since this thread is open I'll post updates from time to time, it could take a while since one is still in seedling stage. I'll be posting updates in my thread (sig) as well. The ideal would be to have the second one sex as female as the chances of the mutation getting passed down should be much better. It's up to the MJ gods now...

Interestingly, it seems to have been passed down and more prominently in this cross unless I'm a lucky bastard (pulling 2 from 8 initial seeds). Someone recently posted a tri-leaf pheno of an F2 tester of my Blue Ripper cross in my thread. The Blue Ripper was the male in this Harlequin x Blue Ripper cross.

If I am successful this cross would eventually be called Tripper ;)
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
Since this thread is open I'll post updates from time to time, it could take a while since one is still in seedling stage. I'll be posting updates in my thread (sig) as well. The ideal would be to have the second one sex as female as the chances of the mutation getting passed down should be much better. It's up to the MJ gods now...

Interestingly, it seems to have been passed down and more prominently in this cross unless I'm a lucky bastard (pulling 2 from 8 initial seeds). Someone recently posted a tri-leaf pheno of an F2 tester of my Blue Ripper cross in my thread. The Blue Ripper was the male in this Harlequin x Blue Ripper cross.

If I am successful this cross would eventually be called Tripper ;)
Click to expand...
From seedlings to now your plants look stressed, i hope at some point you can see this. If i had to take a guess id say your forcing them down instead of lettting them grow up and out.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
From seedlings to now your plants look stressed, i hope at some point you can see this. If i had to take a guess id say your forcing them down instead of lettting them grow up and out.
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The one below it is a clone and yeah they're all stressed at the moment. I'm in a holding pattern through summer and away a lot so they're just surviving, not stressed about it, they'll get some attention when summer's over and bounce back. Shouldn't have planted the seeds when I did but couldn't wait ;) I've recovered way worse than those, no worries.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
The one below it is a clone and yeah they're all stressed at the moment. I'm in a holding pattern through summer and away a lot so they're just surviving, not stressed about it, they'll get some attention when summer's over and bounce back. Shouldn't have planted the seeds when I did but couldn't wait ;) I've recovered way worse than those, no worries.
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No worries....!!! Have you see what your doing to your plants from all that stress, no wonder your getting tri leafed seedlings.

Your not running a breeding program, your running a torture chamber!
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
I dont want to be a dick but this site is full of noobs who go on about mutations, shit genetics, crap breeders, hermies, purple stems and loads of other crap. Most if not all have little idea what a mutation is let alone the pay grade to comment on it here, hec just the sheer amount of dweebs that think they have polyploidy makes me laugh so hard, really need to grow up and stop making stuff up. Its because of this lack of knowledge that you cant work out weeds head from its tail, hermies and crap vex new growers. Tbh if i hadnt stepped in and pointed out the obvious on this thread it would have just led to a lot of bs info. Even know three other threads are being written on supposed mutations, such weak ass growers they ruin the industry with fake ass crap, legal states flood this site with noobs and the standard of the site suffers badly.

I had enough of this bs and need to find a more educated site or just stop using the internet altogether. Really it aint rocket science and i get bored easily with these dweebs, kill the hermie, blame the breeder, f'ing wet myself everytime some half ass posts that purple stems are health or genetic. What a waste of a great resource, ruined by those who dont know better!
Click to expand...
Now you know why I ditched the "marijuana plant problems" section.... I venture in once and awhile...
The same ol shit over and over again! NO ONE it seems, takes the time to learn ANYTHING about growing period (or they see some smack on the net and say, "well, this is how XYZ said to grow).........How about for an example DUMME's latest thread telling everyone that you treat MM like a Tomato and you'll grow perfect.......So many fucking misconceptions and outright BS on-line.

Or how about hydro "somebodies" thread on some dufus claiming 4 plants in an 8x12 and getting 22+ lbs at over 5 a plant with less then 30 day veg and about 4 ft tall.......I smile at the guy a few pages later who claimed a 3+ lb under a 600w.......

Sometimes you just have to laugh and move on.......Hell, I won't even answer CFL related questions anymore. You tell them why the result was low yield and fluffy and some fucknut HAS to come on and say how his CFL grows are perfect and he gets commercial yields from his plants...

Ranting now, so yeah, patience is King.

How about treat it like a simple tropical and do better then tomato growing.

But in the end Kingrow, we simply just have to be patient with them......There are places of peace and growing on the net.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Now you know why I ditched the "marijuana plant problems" section.... I venture in once and awhile...
The same ol shit over and over again! NO ONE it seems, takes the time to learn ANYTHING about growing period (or they see some smack on the net and say, "well, this is how XYZ said to grow).........How about for an example DUMME's latest thread telling everyone that you treat MM like a Tomato and you'll grow perfect.......So many fucking misconceptions and outright BS on-line.

Or how about hydro "somebodies" thread on some dufus claiming 4 plants in an 8x12 and getting 22+ lbs at over 5 a plant with less then 30 day veg and about 4 ft tall.......I smile at the guy a few pages later who claimed a 3+ lb under a 600w.......

Sometimes you just have to laugh and move on.......Hell, I won't even answer CFL related questions anymore. You tell them why the result was low yield and fluffy and some fucknut HAS to come on and say how his CFL grows are perfect and he gets commercial yields from his plants...

Ranting now, so yeah, patience is King.

How about treat it like a simple tropical and do better then tomato growing.

But in the end Kingrow, we simply just have to be patient with them......There are places of peace and growing on the net.
Click to expand...
These sites are really bad for info and discussion thesedays, the determined and open minded growers are swamped and its very hard to carry over years of info when people keep writting the opposite and would rather blame breeders and hermies than get to the bottom of the subject.
 
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