Triploids

Richie LxP

Well-Known Member
I have four White Widow x Critical about 10 days old and one of them has 3 leaves instead of the usual two. Will this effect yeild? I take it that if there is a extra bud side you will get extra buds? COrrect me if im wrong please ha. I might keep her as a mother plant.

Cheers for any insight lads.

Rich.
 

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
I've had quite a few tripple cotyledon ladies. It was never anything special, no true polyploidy flowers ect just regular tops in bushy as hell sativa's
 

Richie LxP

Well-Known Member
I've had quite a few tripple cotyledon ladies. It was never anything special, no true polyploidy flowers ect just regular tops in bushy as hell sativa's
I have been reading that most times they revert back to usual structure once they start alternating? Did this happen to you?

So it seems the crazy bud monsters are very rare so. Ill keep my sticky fingers crossed :eyesmoke:
 

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
I have been reading that most times they revert back to usual structure once they start alternating? Did this happen to you?

So it seems the crazy bud monsters are very rare so. Ill keep my sticky fingers crossed :eyesmoke:
Ive had over 12 females sprouts from the same haze mother most if them tripple, some of them quad cotyledons. They keep the 3-4 branch structure but the tops look like regular tops when you flower them. It basically just grows a bit more bushy. I've never had a tripple or quad that only threw out a pair of fans.

Is this what you are looking for? A true poly i believe drofdank2.jpg
 
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Richie LxP

Well-Known Member
Thats what I have been looking at, crazy bud structure. I remember a thread on here years ago in the outdoor section where a fella had a huge one like that, I suppose ill wait it out and see, even if its nothing special its still pritty cool to see.

Ill post a few pics in a week or so when she is a bit bigger. Cam is very bad on my phone.
 

I.G.Rowdit

Well-Known Member
First of all, 'triploid' is not the correct term. A triploid is an organism with three copies of each chromosome. As opposed to diploid, two copies; tetraploid four copies or polyploid anything with more than two copies.

What you have is a plant with multiple cotyledons as noted by SPLFreak. This is not particularly rare in my experience. I've seen 1,2,3 and 4 cotyledons from a single seed and all of these plants developed into normal adults. I've also seen conjoined twin seedlings from a single seed. I don't think any of these mutations are genetically controlled. They arise from something that affected the seed during development so it would not be possible to breed for this trait.

The photo posted by SPLFreak illustrates a condition called fasciation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasciation
I've seen cannabis fasciation only once before and when I propagated the fasciated plant none of the clones showed any tendency to fasciation so, in my case, I don't think the fasciation was under genetic control.
 

vostok

Well-Known Member
I have four White Widow x Critical about 10 days old and one of them has 3 leaves instead of the usual two. Will this effect yeild? I take it that if there is a extra bud side you will get extra buds? COrrect me if im wrong please ha. I might keep her as a mother plant.
Cheers for any insight lads.
Rich.
Every year I get a triplate or triploid, the gene is recessive, like the auto flowering one,

hence it can be very difficult to catch, for that I see it as a positive thing ,

as like you all the more leaves the better and perhaps an extra few bud sites ....lol

I have crossed 2 triplates, but got no 3rd leave on the next gen. and may try again

its no biggy

good luck
 

chronicboomz

Well-Known Member
Hi Richie,

Not quite sure if this is the same sort of thing you are seeing, but I have 3 leaves sprouting at each side of every node, with a separate side branch starting at the base of every leaf. So, in affect, 6 leaves where there should be 2, and 6 side branches where there should be 2. Its in a scrog net (female seeds c99) and is SUPER bushy. How are your WW x Critical looking?mutant1.jpgmutant2.jpgmutant3.jpg
 

808newb

Well-Known Member
Hi Richie,

Not quite sure if this is the same sort of thing you are seeing, but I have 3 leaves sprouting at each side of every node, with a separate side branch starting at the base of every leaf. So, in affect, 6 leaves where there should be 2, and 6 side branches where there should be 2. Its in a scrog net (female seeds c99) and is SUPER bushy. How are your WW x Critical looking?View attachment 3637627View attachment 3637628View attachment 3637629
You might want to take a few cutting of that one before u flower ;-)
 

chronicboomz

Well-Known Member
Wow - nice plant hydrored! How did she finish? Did you have any others of the same strain in the same setup to compare yields with? Did you notice any increase in flowering time or yield? Did you take cuts, if so were they successful and did the cuts display the same poly traits as the mother? Thanks in advance for any info you van share!
 

HydroRed

Well-Known Member
Wow - nice plant hydrored! How did she finish? Did you have any others of the same strain in the same setup to compare yields with? Did you notice any increase in flowering time or yield? Did you take cuts, if so were they successful and did the cuts display the same poly traits as the mother? Thanks in advance for any info you van share!

She was one of 8 plants from the same strain/breeder. She was the only one to do that. Flowering time took forever compared to the other plants and the yield was below average on that plant due to the lower bush suffering likely to supplying energy and nutes to all the garbage up top. There were 3 smaller tops that did it as well on the plant but not as bad as the top I posted a pic of. I didnt take any cuts and I'm glad I wasted no more time on the plant than I already did. If I had taken cuts, I'm certain it would display the exact same traits. Looks cool, but thats about it. It tasted like thick hash when the flower was smoked. Made good bubble hash, but the flower was not a good smoke.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
I have four White Widow x Critical about 10 days old and one of them has 3 leaves instead of the usual two. Will this effect yeild? I take it that if there is a extra bud side you will get extra buds? COrrect me if im wrong please ha. I might keep her as a mother plant.

Cheers for any insight lads.

Rich.
That is nothing special. Sorry not poly or trip! "Trifoliate" is the thing you have.
BTW, triploids can be sterile
 
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Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
This is a poly I grew a while back. White Widow from ILGM. This is at approx 6 wks flower.
View attachment 3638147
She was one of 8 plants from the same strain/breeder. She was the only one to do that. Flowering time took forever compared to the other plants and the yield was below average on that plant due to the lower bush suffering likely to supplying energy and nutes to all the garbage up top. There were 3 smaller tops that did it as well on the plant but not as bad as the top I posted a pic of. I didnt take any cuts and I'm glad I wasted no more time on the plant than I already did. If I had taken cuts, I'm certain it would display the exact same traits. Looks cool, but thats about it. It tasted like thick hash when the flower was smoked. Made good bubble hash, but the flower was not a good smoke.
I CALL POSSIBLE HORSE SHIT ON THIS CLAIM!

The easiest way to poly a plant is with a chemical that is so toxic to the seeds (you must attempt to treat the seeds as treating a plant - kills it) that you would be LUCKY to get 1-2 viable seeds from 100! Then, it weakens the seed so much that chances are the seedling will not make it! Once you get a live one, you can NOT use the plant or the products from that plant because it's now STILL toxic to humans! You must breed that to another to get the poly to the next set of seeds and grow those out to be able to consume in any way! Other then that it takes a whole lot breeding manipulation......I know of only 1 breeder/seed company out of Spain doing quality work with Polys and they're not putting polys out publicly....Only breeding experiments for down the line train crossing. as far as these guys say it's the triploids that take the long bloom runs....Sam Skunkman fucked with it some time back, but as far as I know know he tabled that work.

Poly cannabis is way, way, way rare in nature!

To even GET me interested in you actually having grown THAT plant. I NEED to see other pictures of it....If you grew that. You have shit loads of shots from differing views! I know I WOULD!

Sorry dude - PROVE IT! More pics please and name the breeder the beans came from please.
 

chronicboomz

Well-Known Member
I CALL POSSIBLE HORSE SHIT ON THIS CLAIM!

The easiest way to poly a plant is with a chemical that is so toxic to the seeds (you must attempt to treat the seeds as treating a plant - kills it) that you would be LUCKY to get 1-2 viable seeds from 100! Then, it weakens the seed so much that chances are the seedling will not make it! Once you get a live one, you can NOT use the plant or the products from that plant because it's now STILL toxic to humans! You must breed that to another to get the poly to the next set of seeds and grow those out to be able to consume in any way! Other then that it takes a whole lot breeding manipulation......I know of only 1 breeder/seed company out of Spain doing quality work with Polys and they're not putting polys out publicly....Only breeding experiments for down the line train crossing. as far as these guys say it's the triploids that take the long bloom runs....Sam Skunkman fucked with it some time back, but as far as I know know he tabled that work.

Poly cannabis is way, way, way rare in nature!

To even GET me interested in you actually having grown THAT plant. I NEED to see other pictures of it....If you grew that. You have shit loads of shots from differing views! I know I WOULD!

Sorry dude - PROVE IT! More pics please and name the breeder the beans came from please.

Hi Dr. Who, did you see the pics of my plant I posted? Is this a true Poly?
 

chronicboomz

Well-Known Member
You might want to take a few cutting of that one before u flower ;-)
Hi 808,

Yes I have already taken a couple! Interesting plant, apparently THC levels in true Polyploids can reach 40%... and also display signs of gigantism. Wish someone could tell me if it is a true Polyploid (Hexaploid?)
 

chronicboomz

Well-Known Member
Found this on another site, I believe 'Billy Bud' was the author. Interesting stuff:

"
During my research of polyploid cannabis. I have come up with what I believe to be the initial source of this super weed. It was said, but not confirmed, that UBC Professor David Suzuki, doing genetic research (1977), created a polyploid plant (tetraploid) by treating it with colchicine based upon the work of Menzel/Brown and Warmke. This plant was originally a hybrid of Thai (sativa) x Purple Afghani (indica) and was then treated with Colchicine (Autumn Locus bulb). There are certainly other clones that were created by other breeders, especially in Hawaii, but the initial commercial tetraploid was developed in B.C. by the Canadian Government and UBC for Cancer patients. I would estimate that the THC content of polyploids to be well over 30% and maybe up to 40% if grown correctly. Fully grown mother tetraploid plants have been known to sell for $10,000. Clones have been known to sell for $1,000 in the past compared to the standard $5-7 range for diploid clones. Tetraploids are extremely difficult to clone (10-20%) unless special care is taken. The end product is far superior to anything commercially available and even compared to excellent connoisseur diploid product due to the doubling of THC. See my Secrets of the Pink Kush book for updated information on this and more topics.

The resulting F1 hybrid seeds were then grown out and used for cancer patients at UBC. Allegedly somebody stole one of the clones that the Canadian Government and David Suzuki, supposedly, had created. It became famous and was then re-created by treating other plants and sold out east as Diesel and as OG Kush on the west coast and as ChemDawg in Colorado. These were all colchicine treated plants based upon their work and the popularity of UBC Chemo. Please note that, according to Sam the Skunkman AKA David Watson, David Suzuki denies that he created this plant. Please note that David Suzuki has always been a government employee and as such his veracity cannot be completely trusted in this world of ours. He would deny it simply because he would lose his job. I do not face that fear.

My understanding is that some clones were stolen. This would make more sense. Diploid and Tetraploid crosses produce Triploids that are infertile due to chromosome mismatch. These are known as "Terminator Seeds" (e.g. Diablos Pink Kush) as customers must buy seeds for each crop due to infertility. The resulting generations of seeds will be diploid. Triploids can be treated again, with Colchicine, to create a Hexaploid. This can be then crossed with a tetraploid or diploid to produce tetraploid plants again. I believe that Warmke was wrong about triploids and Sam the Skunkman thinks that they are not sterile.

How To Identify Polyploids:
You can identify a polyploid be mere physical appearance and no need to examine the chromosones. Most people have never grown or smoked these real legendary plants. The gangters rap about OG Kush because they had the money to buy this extremely rare connoisseur product. Most product out there is just "wangsta OG".
  • Polyploid Traits:
  • Ducksfoot
  • Four sets of leaves at the nodes
  • Stretched (doubled) flowers
  • Dark green leaves
  • Double bud sites
  • Heavy feeder
  • High water consumption
  • Thick meristem
  • Pistil discoloration (pink pistils under black light)
  • Extreme potency
  • Crooked looking plant providing a Bonsai appearance
  • Larger stomata
  • Thicker leaves
  • NOTE: In order to correctly determine a polyploid level you must extract DNA from the root stain the sample (several methods), put under microscope, count the gametes surrounding the nuclei. You must draw what you see in the microscope and then count. As cannabis has 10 gametes, the number should be 20 for 2n (normal diploid), 40 for 4n (tetraploid), 30 for 3n (triploid), and 60 (hexaploid) for 6n and 80 for 8n (octoploid).
  • Secrets of the Pink Kush - Advanced Knowledge of Polyploids in plants, insects, animals and humans.

If your plant (OG Kush or Chemo or Pink Kush or Chem Dawg or Master Kush) does not have four sets of leaves at the nodes then it is NOT a true polyploid plant and it not the real deal. UBC Chemo is a polyploid and had four leaf internodes. These tetraploid cuttings have different names but are believed to all be the famous polyploids named OG Kush, Pink Kush, Chemdawg, Diesel, Master Kush etc. These are really heavy feeders due to the double size buds and double the number of leaves and buds and THC glands. This plant is very strange and has a chemical smell to it. UBC Chemo, for example, has a Haze and Kush taste due to the Thai sativa and Afghani indica influences. Polyploid plants are almost twice as strong as diploid plants due to the doubling of THC molecules. These plants are extremely difficult to clone and grow very slowly due to the doubling of leaves unless fed correctly. Water consumption is extremely high. If it only has two leaves then it is a normal diploid and will not have the same effect as the three molecule THC of a polyploid. Three leaves does not necessarily mean it is polyploid as it could be just whorled phyllotaxis (just created by stress, removing leaves and the subsequent regeneration of leaves is deformed). Four leaves does mean polyploid. Triploids, being sterile, must be treated to create hexaploids. These hexaploids can then be used to create seeds that will be polyploids.

WARNING: Colchicine is a extremely toxic alkaloid and is highly poisonous. Long term contact can result in white blood cell anomolies. You cannot smoke a plant that has been treated, post germination, with Colchicine. You can only consume the grown out product of the seeds. You can smoke product that was treated prior to germination. Selective breeding is not genetically modified cannabis. This is genetically modified pot as it was altered at the chromosonal level. Never treat a plant with Colchicine as it will become toxic and will eventually revert to diploid with further treatment. You are changing the molecular structure dynamically and none of the product can be consumed. The correct way is to treat the seeds.

G-13 The story on this is that it was created by the University of Mississippi under the aegis of the infamous Carlton Turner. Apparently this cannot be true as U of M never did genetic engineering. If you Google G-13 you will find it is made by Suzuki. Well David Suzuki did create a GM Genetically Modified plant - Chemo. What letter is the 13th letter of the alphabet? M. So we have G-13 or GM for genetically modified and made by Suzuki. Sounds like an great code name to me. I strongly suspect that G-13 is just the Chemo clone and yet another name for it. UPDATE May 11, 2014: David Suzuki denies ever having made that plant and an old friend of mine believes that the Chemo actually came from the University of Washington.

I was offered a cutting of the Chemo plant in Ontario back in the mid 1980's. I had been transferred from B.C. when the recession hit. Several other people from B.C. went to Ontario as well in search of work. We brought out seeds, clones and technology with us. There was a guy who ran a Hydroponics store in Toronto that had the Chemo clone for sale. I cannot remember the price but it was FAR too much money. I did not comprehend the value of this plant at that time and thought he was crazy. Now, after having seen it, I understand.
  • Famous Tetraploids:
  • UBC Chemo
  • OG Kush
  • Master Kush
  • Pink Kush
  • Acapulco Gold (suspected polyploid, long gone)
Tetraploid marijuana plants have a real dank smell. It is really obvious when you know what you are looking for. I do not recommend growing these plants out as they take far too long to vegetate and require more attention, food and water than normal diploid plants. They could be used in a Sea of Green method but you are really relying on the genetics and not on proper plant development of hormones for optimal THC production. The resulting product is not nearly as good as a full grown plant but it is not bad for the Sea of Green method which normally produces mediocre marijuana at best. If you want to try some triploid Diablos Pink Kush seeds then check out the Seeds.
 
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