The Official House and Garden Thread

[#1Raiderfan420]

But im running water - to waste, so the amount of nutrients the plants take in cannot fluctuate the pH because the run off water does not go back into the res.

Oh, my bad. In that case the fluctuations are probably from the additives. House and garden says that ph will fluctuate after adding your additives.. ie budxl, root excel, etc. They say to make sure after adding the a/b to ph to 5.8, then add the additives. The ph will move a little after the additives, but do not re-adjust your ph. It should correct itself after a few hours.

This is off of their site:
GENERAL MIXING INSTRUCTIONS

1. Fill Reservior with water (lowPPM/EC preferred)
2. Add A component - mix thoroughly and let stand
3. Add B component - mix thoroughly and let stand
4. Adjust PH - For: Cocos / Hydro / Aqua flakes - pH5.8
   For: Soil A+B - pH6.3
5. After adjusting PH add appropriate stimulants.

PH may lower after adding stimulants,this is a natural process due to the live microbial nature of the stimulant and will correct itself within a few hours.

 

[HobbyHydro]

Oh, my bad. In that case the fluctuations are probably from the additives. House and garden says that ph will fluctuate after adding your additives.. ie budxl, root excel, etc. They say to make sure after adding the a/b to ph to 5.8, then add the additives. The ph will move a little after the additives, but do not re-adjust your ph. It should correct itself after a few hours.

This is off of their site:
GENERAL MIXING INSTRUCTIONS

1. Fill Reservior with water (lowPPM/EC preferred)
2. Add A component - mix thoroughly and let stand
3. Add B component - mix thoroughly and let stand
4. Adjust PH - For: Cocos / Hydro / Aqua flakes - pH5.8
   For: Soil A+B - pH6.3
5. After adjusting PH add appropriate stimulants.

PH may lower after adding stimulants,this is a natural process due to the live microbial nature of the stimulant and will correct itself within a few hours.

Yeah ive read the same instructions however the pH stays at 6.5 even hours later.

Recently i called the House & Garden contact number and they told me to add A and B then pH to 5.8, add the additives then pH back down to 5.8, so im just going to go with that.

Thanks for your input #1RaiderFan420, appreciate the time :]

 

[WSRidahs]

Hey, i use House & Garden , the complete line , i am currently doing hydro with rock wool, water - to - waste with drip lines with a 45 gal res. And i am experiencing some daily fluctuations with the pH levels which I want to know are normal.

I use Reverse Osmosis, i add Cal Mag [150 ppms] back into the water, then i add Aqua Flakes A & B and then pH the water. Usually its about 4.1 so i pH up to 5.5 - 5.8. I then add the supplements which take the pH up to 6.1 - 6.6. Finally, i pH down to 5.5 - 5.8 and im done.

The next day the pH goes up to about 6.2 , should i bring it down everyday or just let be? And are the fluctuations normal
?

Thanks Everyone :]

If you're running run to waste your pH shouldn't move at all. I ran the H&G line too and nothing else. Try and leave out anything that's not H&G. I didn't even use RO water. My tap water is 20 ppm and pH is 7-7.4. I used Aqua Flakes A & B, Roots Excelurator, Drip Clean, Multi Zen, Bud XL, Top Booster, and Shooting Powder. I mix A and then B in really well, adjust pH to 5.6, and then add all the additives. I do not adjust pH after adding additives. pH is between 5.6-5.8. I don't do drain to waste, I do DWC and after 1 day my pH is 5.6-6.3. I also adjust my feeding based on that. I also read all this stuff about having to let the nutes sit for a while after adding each one but I've never done that. I've also mixed up a batch and let it sit in a bucket for a day and the pH never moved. I think it may be moving because of something you putting in that's not made by H&G. Possibly the Cal Mag. I know when I used to add Great White to my mix the pH used to move a lot so I stopped using it. If your tap water is like mine then try using that and leave out the Cal Mag. If not try finding a Cal Mag that's more compatible with H&G.

1 more thing, not sure if you've used the Shooting Powder but it seems to be buffered to run at 5.9-6. The first time I used the Shooting Powder I mixed A & B to a pH of 5.6. Added my additives and checked pH. pH was 5.7. Added the Shooting Powder and pH was at 6. I then noticed that adding the Shooting Powder increased pH quite a bit. On my next bucket I mixed A & B to a pH of 5.3 just to see what happens and hoping it would compensate and move to 5.6 after adding in the Shooting Powder. To my surprise it moved to 5.9. I did another test with a pH of 5.0. Added the Shooting Powder and pH was 5.9 again. H&G seems to have made their additives to mix with A&B after and not move pH at all with the exception of the Shooting Power which is buffered to a specific pH. You should only have to adjust pH after adding A&B. Not sure why they told you to adjust again after adding the additives. Even on their website the instructions say to adjust pH after A&B and pH may move after additives but that's normal and it should correct itself. Also, try reading the question and answers section of their website. I've read through a lot of that when I used to run H&G and a lot of others seem to ask about how to mix A&B and all the additives. The answer is always, mix A then B, adjust pH, and then add additives without adjusting pH afterwards. Something else is going on in your system. Here's H&G's mixing chart.

 

[HobbyHydro]

If you're running run to waste your pH shouldn't move at all. I ran the H&G line too and nothing else. Try and leave out anything that's not H&G. I didn't even use RO water. My tap water is 20 ppm and pH is 7-7.4. I used Aqua Flakes A & B, Roots Excelurator, Drip Clean, Multi Zen, Bud XL, Top Booster, and Shooting Powder. I mix A and then B in really well, adjust pH to 5.6, and then add all the additives. I do not adjust pH after adding additives. pH is between 5.6-5.8. I don't do drain to waste, I do DWC and after 1 day my pH is 5.6-6.3. I also adjust my feeding based on that. I also read all this stuff about having to let the nutes sit for a while after adding each one but I've never done that. I've also mixed up a batch and let it sit in a bucket for a day and the pH never moved. I think it may be moving because of something you putting in that's not made by H&G. Possibly the Cal Mag. I know when I used to add Great White to my mix the pH used to move a lot so I stopped using it. If your tap water is like mine then try using that and leave out the Cal Mag. If not try finding a Cal Mag that's more compatible with H&G.

1 more thing, not sure if you've used the Shooting Powder but it seems to be buffered to run at 5.9-6. The first time I used the Shooting Powder I mixed A & B to a pH of 5.6. Added my additives and checked pH. pH was 5.7. Added the Shooting Powder and pH was at 6. I then noticed that adding the Shooting Powder increased pH quite a bit. On my next bucket I mixed A & B to a pH of 5.3 just to see what happens and hoping it would compensate and move to 5.6 after adding in the Shooting Powder. To my surprise it moved to 5.9. I did another test with a pH of 5.0. Added the Shooting Powder and pH was 5.9 again. H&G seems to have made their additives to mix with A&B after and not move pH at all with the exception of the Shooting Power which is buffered to a specific pH. You should only have to adjust pH after adding A&B. Not sure why they told you to adjust again after adding the additives. Even on their website the instructions say to adjust pH after A&B and pH may move after additives but that's normal and it should correct itself. Also, try reading the question and answers section of their website. I've read through a lot of that when I used to run H&G and a lot of others seem to ask about how to mix A&B and all the additives. The answer is always, mix A then B, adjust pH, and then add additives without adjusting pH afterwards. Something else is going on in your system. Here's H&G's mixing chart.

I agree with what you've said and im going to run my next batch without the cal mag [the yellow bottle], and see if it will be fine. I am a bit apprehensive with using tap water because i haven't had great results with that method. But i must say 20ppm is considerably low, my RO rates at 32ppm. With the shooting powder i've experienced the same things as you. After i add shooting powder the pH rises to about 6.0 - 6.2 and takes a very large amount of pH down to bring it down. I use 45 gals res and it takes about 200mL of acid to bring it down to 5.8.

How much does your pH fluctuate from day to day ? And do you bring it back down on a daily basis ? before feeding time for example.


I've tried Great White but recently came across Humbolts Myco Madness for the vegetative state, and been getting better results. The bacteria stay alive only two days in the water, so you cant have it sitting for long. I really love the algen extract as well, its expensive but is absolutely awesome.

 

[WSRidahs]

When I used H&G my pH would sometimes move up to about 6.2-6.4 in the first 5 weeks of flower depending on how much I feed them. My plants drank about a gallon per day so I would top off my bucket with plain water and bring the pH back down if ph was above 6. Then on week 6-8 when I use the shooting powder my pH is usually stable. I always made sure I didn't overfeed. When you overfeed the pH can get very unstable because then the plant refuses to eat and only drinks water which makes the water toxic. I grow in 5 gallon DWC buckets with 10" net pots so I can only put 2 gallons of water in it. I basically changed my nutes out every 3-4 days depending on how much the plant drinks. Currently I'm using Supernatural Brand nutrients and I almost never have to adjust pH. The only time my pH would move is if there's a plant problem like root rot or something. But as long as the plant is healthy my pH doesn't move at all. Now all I do it top off my buckets with plain water daily and I'm done. I still check pH after topping off just to make sure cause if the pH moves I'm may have a plant problem. Last time it moved down to 5 and I found that my plant started to have root rot because I had bugs on my roots. I caught it though and plant recovered after I dunked it in Gonats.

 

[masonite420]

Hey, i use House & Garden , the complete line , i am currently doing hydro with rock wool, water - to - waste with drip lines with a 45 gal res. And i am experiencing some daily fluctuations with the pH levels which I want to know are normal.

I use Reverse Osmosis, i add Cal Mag [150 ppms] back into the water, then i add Aqua Flakes A & B and then pH the water. Usually its about 4.1 so i pH up to 5.5 - 5.8. I then add the supplements which take the pH up to 6.1 - 6.6. Finally, i pH down to 5.5 - 5.8 and im done.

The next day the pH goes up to about 6.2 , should i bring it down everyday or just let be? And are the fluctuations normal
?


Thanks Everyone :]

Yes it is actually good to let your rez climb from 5.5 to 6.5 and then bring it back down....Within that good range different elements are more and less available with each 0.1....Therefore all the elements get their turn, so to speak, within that good range. House and Garden is pretty stable but all nutrients tend to drift up in ph as the week progresses...this is normal....Peace

 

[masonite420]

I agree with what you've said and im going to run my next batch without the cal mag [the yellow bottle], and see if it will be fine. I am a bit apprehensive with using tap water because i haven't had great results with that method. But i must say 20ppm is considerably low, my RO rates at 32ppm. With the shooting powder i've experienced the same things as you. After i add shooting powder the pH rises to about 6.0 - 6.2 and takes a very large amount of pH down to bring it down. I use 45 gals res and it takes about 200mL of acid to bring it down to 5.8.

How much does your pH fluctuate from day to day ? And do you bring it back down on a daily basis ? before feeding time for example.


I've tried Great White but recently came across Humbolts Myco Madness for the vegetative state, and been getting better results. The bacteria stay alive only two days in the water, so you cant have it sitting for long. I really love the algen extract as well, its expensive but is absolutely awesome.

A good way to bring down your ph organically and break down the existing nutes at the same time is to use Mad Farmer N.U.T.S.. It is an organic fulvic acid. Peace and Good luck

 

[masonite420]

Yeah ive read the same instructions however the pH stays at 6.5 even hours later.

Recently i called the House & Garden contact number and they told me to add A and B then pH to 5.8, add the additives then pH back down to 5.8, so im just going to go with that.

Thanks for your input #1RaiderFan420, appreciate the time :]

Just so you guys know....you should add A&B and the other stimulants.....Drip clean,Top booster, Algen, shooting powder, before you ph because these will all fluctuate the ph....The enzymes and bacteria....such as Bud XL, Multizen, and Roots Excelurator should be added after you ph because the raw acids hitting the water can kill these stimulants. They DO NOT change the ph when added so you can add them after....Peace and good luck

 

[#1Raiderfan420]

Yes it is actually good to let your rez climb from 5.5 to 6.5 and then bring it back down....Within that good range different elements are more and less available with each 0.1....Therefore all the elements get their turn, so to speak, within that good range. House and Garden is pretty stable but all nutrients tend to drift up in ph as the week progresses...this is normal....Peace

I agree with the above post. If your tap is comming out at 32 ppm you do not need an RO. I used to sue an RO ( my tap is at 22ppm) and when I switched to tap I was able to drop the cal/mag. It says somewhere in the H&G literature that if your tap is over 100 ppm to use RO filter.
I still use a little extra cal/mag in late flower, but I used to use it all the way through. Anyway, I just picked up an inline chlorine filter and haven't run RO in over a year with much better ph stability.
Also, with the shooting powder, you are supposed to let the ph rise. House and Garden said this is normal and designed to work that way. P & K are absorbed better at a higher ph. I have not noticed the 5.9 thing, but I agree with the rest. As with all the additives, you add the a/b ph to 5.8 then add the additive without adjusting the ph again.

 

[Jozikins]

Is H&G a chemical nute, ie, non organic? Also, what products would I want for the easiest feeding?

Buy them all or don't get any at all. House&Garden is meant to be a complete line-up. While you can get fantastic results without Algen Extract, Top Booster, and Shooting Powder, the question is why would you cheap out on the most important part? Aside from light and water, this is the most important, why cut yourself short? H&G advertises an additional 30% in yield from using Top Booster and Shooting Powder, and after using it, I believe that shit.

Don't be cheap, drop $250 on it. All the additives and the base are super concentrated, so you can get away with the smallest bottles, and still get through an entire grow or two.

It has a lot of synthetic and natural components, but if you don't flush properly you really can taste the salts. Which is also why I recommend Drip Clean, I don't think I'll ever grow without it again. I like the product because of how stable and easy it is to use. As mentioned earlier, the pH will fluctuate for the first day, this is mainly caused by the boosters, not the base. But the real problem is the CalMag, I've noticed. But you can't get away without it. Stay away from organic sources of Cal Mag. I've already learned from technaflora and cal mag from General Organics, I watched a journal on here and someone used them together one day, the next day the garden was dead, and the nutes were rancid. If you are looking for a really cheap, really simple, really effective line up, get the "Recipe for Success" Kit from TechnaFlora. I hate to promote them in this thread, but if you want EVERYTHING for 35 bucks, they got it, and you can pull pounds with it. It's mainly synthetic and very stable, and all you need is ph +/- and a ph/ec/tds meter. Half my gardens I run on H&G, the other half on TechnaFlora because I like it so much for DWC, and it's just easy in a small area with a small garden. But my H&G definitely gives me my most incredible yields and gives BY FAR a better taste and smell. But I noticed Liquid Karma by Botanicare really helps TechnaFlora with that problem.

And I still use my root exculrator with EVERYTHING, until week 3-5 of flowering.

 

[masonite420]

Buy them all or don't get any at all. House&Garden is meant to be a complete line-up. While you can get fantastic results without Algen Extract, Top Booster, and Shooting Powder, the question is why would you cheap out on the most important part? Aside from light and water, this is the most important, why cut yourself short? H&G advertises an additional 30% in yield from using Top Booster and Shooting Powder, and after using it, I believe that shit.

Don't be cheap, drop $250 on it. All the additives and the base are super concentrated, so you can get away with the smallest bottles, and still get through an entire grow or two.

It has a lot of synthetic and natural components, but if you don't flush properly you really can taste the salts. Which is also why I recommend Drip Clean, I don't think I'll ever grow without it again. I like the product because of how stable and easy it is to use. As mentioned earlier, the pH will fluctuate for the first day, this is mainly caused by the boosters, not the base. But the real problem is the CalMag, I've noticed. But you can't get away without it. Stay away from organic sources of Cal Mag. I've already learned from technaflora and cal mag from General Organics, I watched a journal on here and someone used them together one day, the next day the garden was dead, and the nutes were rancid. If you are looking for a really cheap, really simple, really effective line up, get the "Recipe for Success" Kit from TechnaFlora. I hate to promote them in this thread, but if you want EVERYTHING for 35 bucks, they got it, and you can pull pounds with it. It's mainly synthetic and very stable, and all you need is ph +/- and a ph/ec/tds meter. Half my gardens I run on H&G, the other half on TechnaFlora because I like it so much for DWC, and it's just easy in a small area with a small garden. But my H&G definitely gives me my most incredible yields and gives BY FAR a better taste and smell. But I noticed Liquid Karma by Botanicare really helps TechnaFlora with that problem.

And I still use my root exculrator with EVERYTHING, until week 3-5 of flowering.

I agree....[FONT=&quot]House and Garden makes a tasty product...Just gives it that little extra somethin that people like.......same strain.....better product with the House.....Peace
[/FONT]

 

[purrrrple]

Anyone seen the new labels?? Got a shipment of H&G and it's all new labels!! Wonder if they reformulated anything?

Just wanted to give some info based on recent experiences:
1. Had major salt buildup in soil, drip clean didn't help. Don't know if it was something I did or if the dripclean just doesn't work in dirt.

2. I NEED Calmag in mid-late flowering.

3. Magic green does nothing for me? Whats the correct dilution rate/gallon? I'm running 10ML/G. Too lazy to look at the chart.

4. I love coco. Never going back to dirt ever. Period.

 

[#1Raiderfan420]

Anyone seen the new labels?? Got a shipment of H&G and it's all new labels!! Wonder if they reformulated anything?

Just wanted to give some info based on recent experiences:
1. Had major salt buildup in soil, drip clean didn't help. Don't know if it was something I did or if the dripclean just doesn't work in dirt.

2. I NEED Calmag in mid-late flowering.

3. Magic green does nothing for me? Whats the correct dilution rate/gallon? I'm running 10ML/G. Too lazy to look at the chart.

4. I love coco. Never going back to dirt ever. Period.

I haven't seen the new labels yet. I agree with oyu on the magic green, I use yellow bottle foliar myself. As for coco, I haven't found a better medium period and I have tried RW, STG, Hydroton, Hygromite and IMHO, the coco with hydroton in the trays works the best. I have only used soil outdoors and didn't use H&G, so I am of no help there. lol I'll be looking for those new labels though.

 

[masonite420]

Anyone seen the new labels?? Got a shipment of H&G and it's all new labels!! Wonder if they reformulated anything?

Just wanted to give some info based on recent experiences:
1. Had major salt buildup in soil, drip clean didn't help. Don't know if it was something I did or if the dripclean just doesn't work in dirt.

2. I NEED Calmag in mid-late flowering.

3. Magic green does nothing for me? Whats the correct dilution rate/gallon? I'm running 10ML/G. Too lazy to look at the chart.

4. I love coco. Never going back to dirt ever. Period.

If you love coco try Aqua Flakes A & B with hydroton....Good stuff....Ur on the right track with the Magic Green....5-10ml a gal.....try using it together with saturator from dutch masters once a week.....Saturator helps the plant absorb Magic Green faster and more evenly....A great combination.......Cal mag is good to use with H&G at a light dose ....all the way through...... unless ur using tap water.....Peace and good luck

 

[Zensai]

When I called H&G, they said to not use CalMag as their is plenty of Mag in the Aqua formula, they suggested when using RO water, to use something like Cutting Edge's Plant Amp which is just a Calcium additive. Has anyone else used anything like this?

 

[#1Raiderfan420]

When I called H&G, they said to not use CalMag as their is plenty of Mag in the Aqua formula, they suggested when using RO water, to use something like Cutting Edge's Plant Amp which is just a Calcium additive. Has anyone else used anything like this?

"Cal/Mag" is a trademark name for botincare's calcium suppliment. The term cal/mag is used for many other suppliment brands, but I am referring to this http://www.americanagritech.com/supplements/cal-mag . It has twice the calcium as it does magnesium and the extra mag doesn't hurt. I have experience mag def without it when using RO water.

 

[Jozikins]

Anyone seen the new labels?? Got a shipment of H&G and it's all new labels!! Wonder if they reformulated anything?

Just wanted to give some info based on recent experiences:
1. Had major salt buildup in soil, drip clean didn't help. Don't know if it was something I did or if the dripclean just doesn't work in dirt.

2. I NEED Calmag in mid-late flowering.

3. Magic green does nothing for me? Whats the correct dilution rate/gallon? I'm running 10ML/G. Too lazy to look at the chart.

4. I love coco. Never going back to dirt ever. Period.

1) I've never gotten salt build up with H&G, with or without Drip Clean, but I do a light flush with r/o or r/o + Liquid Karma once a week or two. 2) I agree, this time I didn't gamble and I'm using it from start to finish. 3)No more than 250ppm, pH 5.7, less is more, but do not dip below 190ish, the Dutch Master Saturator is good too, I hear, Like masonite420 said. However it raises your ppm's a lot, and I don't know if that locks everything out, but the rule for any foliar is never more than 250ppm, pH 5.7, if you make your own sprays make sure to supplement calcium, because it washes out of the leaves when they are sprayed. 4) Amen.

When I called H&G, they said to not use CalMag as their is plenty of Mag in the Aqua formula, they suggested when using RO water, to use something like Cutting Edge's Plant Amp which is just a Calcium additive. Has anyone else used anything like this?

You can use any cal/mag additive, it's very rare that magnesium toxicity occurs in cannabis, if it does happen it looks like you have a calcium deficiency like you never used cal-mag at all, and it's caused by lock-out, flush to fix it. If you want more of just Calcium still, I would definitely use the fertilizer they recommended, but if you are using soil you can add dolomite lime to your soil mix and it will add calcium, as well as raise your pH, but calcium and magnesium are more available at a higher pH

"Cal/Mag" is a trademark name for botincare's calcium suppliment. The term cal/mag is used for many other suppliment brands, but I am referring to this http://www.americanagritech.com/supplements/cal-mag . It has twice the calcium as it does magnesium and the extra mag doesn't hurt. I have experience mag def without it when using RO water.

I like the Cal-Mag Plus a lot, I have also found that most manufacturers just replicate each other's formulas, I've used Cal-Mag Plus, MagiCal, and CalMax, I have seen little difference, but I just started using this cheaper CalMax stuff, and it may be too soon to tell, I have a feeling that it might just be watered down, it's only 12 bucks a liter. I've also tried the GH's organic CaMg+, do not much care for it, I've also read about it souring synthetic nutes in your res, and it doesn't last very long in general, I can't (don't care enough to) get my res temps low enough for that kind of stuff. That last bit of info wasn't so important, but I'm so STONED off my last crop, I just have a lot of love to share with the House & Garden thread. I even busted open my Grow Bible to share the ppm's that Calcium and Magnesium become available.

Calcium
Average: 100-150/Limit: 200

Magnesium
Average: 50-100/Limit:75

I know the limit on Magnesium sounds funny, but it's in the book. Ol' Georgy must have been a little stoned when he figured that.

Also, use cal-mag in your first day or two of no fertilizer before your flush, or after the flush, and before you flush again. I usually flush, give nothing but carb supplements and cal mag for the first 3 days or 4 days, and then flush with R/O or R/O + Clearex for 3-6 days (usually only run Clearex for 2 days). Magnesium helps enzymes make carbohydrates into sugars, and Calcium keeps the cell walls strong so those sugars have a clear shot to the flower. Using a little of it keeps your flowers growing and keeps them getting sweeter and tastier for those last days with no more food. But it's better to go 6 days with pure water after sugar and calmag, because cal mag will leave a flavor behind otherwise, I've found that I can cure it out of it after a month or more.


I got a bunch of this good info out of Jorge Cervante's (George Van Patten) Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor/Outdoor Medicial Grower's Bible. I haven't cracked it open in two years, but I forgot how much good info is in here.

 

[Jozikins]

ok. thanks for the clarification. I'll stay away from it till flowering.

Uh-oh, I meant use it as House & Garden says. If you are using a Australian formula, follow the Australian direction.

 

[horsepower850]

Can anyone tell me if hygrozyme is ok to use in week 6 along with shooting powder in a resevoir? I'm using Cocos A&B along with Bud XL and Drip Clean and 2ml per gal. H2O2.

 

[#1Raiderfan420]

Can anyone tell me if hygrozyme is ok to use in week 6 along with shooting powder in a resevoir? I'm using Cocos A&B along with Bud XL and Drip Clean and 2ml per gal. H2O2.

I have used hygrozyme in flower with no problems