so seriously, does pH and organics go together??

st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
hydroMD said:
So my dwc grown with only Hmri listed organics and organic teas is not organic? Huh
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The teas and nutrients that you are using may be organically derived, but you're not growing organically IMO. Organic hydroponics is reliant on highly soluble nutrients like blood meal and/or enzymatically processed organic inputs.

The entire point of organics is to utlize the symbiotic relationship between microbes and the plant. Using organically derived nutrients that are already bio available is not utilizing the soil food web.

I'm not saying that my way is better, or that you're doing anything wrong, I just feel that there is a distinction between growing organically, and using organically derived nutrients.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
The teas and nutrients that you are using may be organically derived, but you're not growing organically IMO. Organic hydroponics is reliant on highly soluble nutrients like blood meal and/or enzymatically processed organic inputs.

The entire point of organics is to utlize the symbiotic relationship between microbes and the plant. Using organically derived nutrients that are already bio available is not utilizing the soil food web.

I'm not saying that my way is better, or that you're doing anything wrong, I just feel that there is a distinction between growing organically, and using organically derived nutrients.
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amen there, not to mention typically they are VERY heavy in heavy metal content as well.
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
no tilling is bad, go read the no-till thread.
You destroy the soilweb that way.
Comparing peanut to cannabis is like... ummmm, comparing peanuts to cannabis.
Because it's an agricultural crop means nothing, everything is an agricultural crop.
Seriously man, sometimes I wonder if you post things just to get us all agitated, I thought you knew better.
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Haha! No I'm really trying to open up the discussion.! Are there Side by Side Comparisons of Mulch and Non in the no till rols thread? Because when I went through I didn't see anything, I mean not that there is nothing there because I Learned Tons from that and referenced that thread continuously when building my soil and I will go back. But are there any side by sides? Once I get my shit Really down and I'm controlling everything perfectly I'm going to do my own side by side and post the results.
 
F

fatburt

Active Member
st0wandgrow said:
The teas and nutrients that you are using may be organically derived, but you're not growing organically IMO. Organic hydroponics is reliant on highly soluble nutrients like blood meal and/or enzymatically processed organic inputs.

The entire point of organics is to utlize the symbiotic relationship between microbes and the plant. Using organically derived nutrients that are already bio available is not utilizing the soil food web.

I'm not saying that my way is better, or that you're doing anything wrong, I just feel that there is a distinction between growing organically, and using organically derived nutrients.
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very well said!
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
The teas and nutrients that you are using may be organically derived, but you're not growing organically IMO. Organic hydroponics is reliant on highly soluble nutrients like blood meal and/or enzymatically processed organic inputs.

The entire point of organics is to utlize the symbiotic relationship between microbes and the plant. Using organically derived nutrients that are already bio available is not utilizing the soil food web.

I'm not saying that my way is better, or that you're doing anything wrong, I just feel that there is a distinction between growing organically, and using organically derived nutrients.
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Well would you say the strenuous organic requirements do Not justify "true" organics if it is say Sulfur or the other chemicals allowed in gardening.

Pisses me off too that to use Organic you have to go through Thousands of paper work but if you want to sell monocultured chemically induced and covered produce Hey that's okay no permit or papers needed for that.!.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
cannakis said:
Haha! No I'm really trying to open up the discussion.! Are there Side by Side Comparisons of Mulch and Non in the no till rols thread? Because when I went through I didn't see anything, I mean not that there is nothing there because I Learned Tons from that and referenced that thread continuously when building my soil and I will go back. But are there any side by sides? Once I get my shit Really down and I'm controlling everything perfectly I'm going to do my own side by side and post the results.
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mulch isn't always needed it can harm plants if the soil is too thick or wet to begin with, not to mention RH. It can be great or bad, just like most things.
I appreciate that you are eager to see the actual differences but you gotta remember all the other variables included.
I got ya man, I was like that when I was younger, wanting to re-invent the wheel... sometimes it's ok to stand on the shoulders of others men.
I mean, you don't think the earth is flat do you?
or that the sun rotates around the earth.
But I bet you have never seen that first hand... Do you KNOW that plants use nitrogen and phosphorus and potassium?
Yea, but do you KNOW that? proven it to yourself? You don't need to, because it's a factual thing that others that are smarter than you and I have already done that.
That's my point, we already know that there is about 21% oxygen in the earth atmosphere (@sea level)
We KNOW that nitrogen is the most abundant gas in the air, we know that.
We KNOW what wavebands and color spectrums that plants use for photosynthesis...
we KNOW that there is microbes in AACTs...but I have not see the microbes first hand, have you?
just saying.. sometimes it's best to already acknowledge the facts that others have layed down, and then using that to further achieve your goals.
make sense?
Don't get me wrong man, I somewhat admire the fact that you are like that, but simultaneously I think it really slows down your progress to growing some really great herb.
My 2 cents... no change given.
All the love man.
 
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hydroMD

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
The teas and nutrients that you are using may be organically derived, but you're not growing organically IMO. Organic hydroponics is reliant on highly soluble nutrients like blood meal and/or enzymatically processed organic inputs.

The entire point of organics is to utlize the symbiotic relationship between microbes and the plant. Using organically derived nutrients that are already bio available is not utilizing the soil food web.

I'm not saying that my way is better, or that you're doing anything wrong, I just feel that there is a distinction between growing organically, and using organically derived nutrients.
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So its about the art of organics vs certified organic then

Technicalities :p

I can dig it
 
hydroMD

hydroMD

Well-Known Member
fatburt said:
very well said!
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But Its still organic as far as the definition of is concerned.

Technically speaking

There is no official formality that states organic produce must have been grown with slow breakdown of raw material through the processes of a symbiotic relationship with microbes, to indeed be considered organic

Only that it fits the definition of 'organic' which lies in the nutrients and handling of said product.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
hydroMD said:
But Its still organic as far as the definition of is concerned.

Technically speaking

There is no official formality that states organic produce must have been grown with slow breakdown of raw material through the processes of a symbiotic relationship with microbes, to indeed be considered organic

Only that it fits the definition of 'organic' which lies in the nutrients and handling of said product.
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The *product* that you're using is organic, yes. But why bother? It makes absolutely no difference to your plant wether you use a synthetic source of N or enzymatically processed alfalfa meal. It is taken up in exactly the same form.

What matters in organics is HOW the plant derives it's sustenance. That symbiotic relationship between the microbes and the plant is the very essence of organics. There are benefits to it beyond just being able to say that you're feeding your plants something organic.

What is the point in what you're doing? What do you feel the benefits are in using organic bottled nutrients above synthetics in a hydro setup?
 
a senile fungus

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
Psh, I just like being able to only give water. I don't have time to be pHing and ppming my water and measuring out nutes and such... Not to mention keeping track of what each plant eats and slowly increasing all that over time

Now I just water when the pot is light, the plant and soil does the rest. I've never had healthier looking plants...

My ease of growing and the green testaments of health that these plants are has nearly convinced my neighbor to go organic. He's on the fence. He had a dying plant that we turned around with a handful of EWC, that really opened his eyes.
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
a senile fungus said:
Psh, I just like being able to only give water. I don't have time to be pHing and ppming my water and measuring out nutes and such... Not to mention keeping track of what each plant eats and slowly increasing all that over time

Now I just water when the pot is light, the plant and soil does the rest. I've never had healthier looking plants...

My ease of growing and the green testaments of health that these plants are has nearly convinced my neighbor to go organic. He's on the fence. He had a dying plant that we turned around with a handful of EWC, that really opened his eyes.
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Haha man that is awesome!! Yeah I like just giving them my living rain water from outside.

What is your soil? Do you amend?
greasemonkeymann said:
mulch isn't always needed it can harm plants if the soil is too thick or wet to begin with, not to mention RH. It can be great or bad, just like most things.
I appreciate that you are eager to see the actual differences but you gotta remember all the other variables included.
I got ya man, I was like that when I was younger, wanting to re-invent the wheel... sometimes it's ok to stand on the shoulders of others men.
I mean, you don't think the earth is flat do you?
or that the sun rotates around the earth.
But I bet you have never seen that first hand... Do you KNOW that plants use nitrogen and phosphorus and potassium?
Yea, but do you KNOW that? proven it to yourself? You don't need to, because it's a factual thing that others that are smarter than you and I have already done that.
That's my point, we already know that there is about 21% oxygen in the earth atmosphere (@sea level)
We KNOW that nitrogen is the most abundant gas in the air, we know that.
We KNOW what wavebands and color spectrums that plants use for photosynthesis...
we KNOW that there is microbes in AACTs...but I have not see the microbes first hand, have you?
just saying.. sometimes it's best to already acknowledge the facts that others have layed down, and then using that to further achieve your goals.
make sense?
Don't get me wrong man, I somewhat admire the fact that you are like that, but simultaneously I think it really slows down your progress to growing some really great herb.
My 2 cents... no change given.
All the love man.
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Hahaha love ya brother! Yeah I really Do need to just listen, I Have learned though like my Garden outside I Am actually doing it right this time weeding and spacing, but before never listened and had Horrible results! I feel Real good this year, growing profitable crops too I stead of grains which I was growing because I was like oh Shit we are going to run out of seed I need to save these!

But yeah you are right, I do need to take Scientific Facts more.! Haha yeah I've seen nitrogen by the way! You can't see it?!?
 
a senile fungus

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
cannakis said:
Haha man that is awesome!! Yeah I like just giving them my living rain water from outside.

What is your soil? Do you amend?
Click to expand...
My main soil mix is cootz mix more or less, over time I've added various things to various pots. I'm reusing some of the pots from my last run, the rest are still being watered weekly and the soil is still alive (still got worms and bugs in it).

I've top dressed lightly with alfalfa and kelp meals, oyster shell meal, DE, gypsum, but I mostly just use quality EWC. My worm bin isn't don't yet. I used to use store bought RO water but I noticed calmag issues a couple of weeks in consistently so I switched to straight tap with no detriment. My municipality uses chlorine.

That's about it, pretty simple really. The secret is totally the EWC. My garden would be shit without a good source of that stuff. I also have a wonderful source of composted horse manure but I truly feel that the EWC is what makes the difference. I just gave my worm bin a light pinch of oyster shell meal and alfalfa the other day, so I'm on my way to awesome castings!
 
cannakis

cannakis

Well-Known Member
a senile fungus said:
My main soil mix is cootz mix more or less, over time I've added various things to various pots. I'm reusing some of the pots from my last run, the rest are still being watered weekly and the soil is still alive (still got worms and bugs in it).

I've top dressed lightly with alfalfa and kelp meals, oyster shell meal, DE, gypsum, but I mostly just use quality EWC. My worm bin isn't don't yet. I used to use store bought RO water but I noticed calmag issues a couple of weeks in consistently so I switched to straight tap with no detriment. My municipality uses chlorine.

That's about it, pretty simple really. The secret is totally the EWC. My garden would be shit without a good source of that stuff. I also have a wonderful source of composted horse manure but I truly feel that the EWC is what makes the difference. I just gave my worm bin a light pinch of oyster shell meal and alfalfa the other day, so I'm on my way to awesome castings!
Click to expand...
Yeah I kind of Completely forgot about earthworm castings! I need to make a bin!
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Rrog said:
^^^ Best advice ^^^ Vermicompost rules
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yup, and it's damn fun too, and the reward after while not only saving you a good amount of money, you'll find you will use it more often and the difference between the bagged castings and true fresh vermicompost is like comparing a mcdonalds hamburger to a ribeye steak.... yeah they are both beef... but..
Besides, for me it was really cool to start with a little bag, and to see how many I have now, it's insane.
Very cool hobby, if I ever quit growing herb (which I wouldn't) I would still do the vermicomposting..
Regular composting is damn fun too. I can't help but grin a lil when I see my pile steaming..
Uh.. that last part sorta came out wrong, didn't it.
the compost pile...
 
F

fatburt

Active Member
The *product* that you're using is organic, yes. But why bother? It makes absolutely no difference to your plant wether you use a synthetic source of N or enzymatically processed alfalfa meal. It is taken up in exactly the same form.

um yes,its a big difference,,,,dont say shit when you dont know,,,,,it can fuck someones whole grow!
if u use that product in hydro vs soil your plants are fed very differently...in soil the microbes break it down and feed the soil,in hydro you are directly feeding the plant.....get it?
 
rory420420

rory420420

Well-Known Member
My way 100% microbe tea,and chem fertilizers.
Same shit,one step removed.
Watch this,live life easier,stop being hyped.
 
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