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sharing my modified subcool super soil recipe

Discussion in 'Subcool's Old School Organics' started by sidewing, May 8, 2012.

  1. in your first post of this thread, back in ... May 8th, 2012, (goddamn!) you listed the measurement of Epsom Salts at 8grams instead of Subcools orginal 45grams. was that a typo? if not, why did you greatly reduce the Epsom Salts?
     
  2.  
    sidewing

    sidewing Well-Known Member

    well, the original recipe on page one is a smaller batch i believe. only 2 bags of soil. i think the subcool is 8 bags? cant remember..

    but here is the latest revised version that i was running:

    I've done a lot of learning about plants, salts, and various other things related to growing. so here's my opinion as of today.

    epsom salt, which is magnesium sulfate, (a completely water soluble form of just magnesium and sulfur), is not needed in the soil mix.

    you're using a complete base soil in roots original... epsom salt being completely water soluble is available immediately and does nothing at all for long term release. the base soil alone has enough magnesium and sulfur and no more is needed.. if some was needed down the road it would be long gone from the epsom salt added in the mix by the time that time came.

    I don't even think the potassium sulfate is needed honestly.. now, TODAY, knowing what I know now, I'd run something like this:
    1 bag roots organic, 1 cup fish bone meal, 1 cup bat guano (high p, such as happy frog, or any high p guano that is fine texture, not pellets), 1 cup blood meal, and 1 cup of azomite... then just give them a microbial tea once a week brewed with EWC, Alaska Humus (ancient forest), like a large pinch of each is good. and a little sucanat (like 1 tsp per 2 gallons of water).

    that's what I'd use. it'll get the job done.

    but to simply answer your question about epsom salt.. magnesium and sulfur addition isnt really doing anything at the beginning of flower.. it'd be most beneficial if at all at the end of flower. both magnesium and sulfur help improve flavor, but you can easily throw off the nutrient ratio balance using a fully soluble raw salt such as epsom salt. and that'd be counter productive.

    I think subcool's mix he based it off someone elses.. and I think he just sort of did a gumbo mix of ingredients that a lot of people use, and it worked for him so that's what he uses.. it doesn't mean that everything is necessary..

    in my opinion roots original ALONE, can carry the plant at least through the first month of flower in a large 7gal pot. adding a little extra that breaks down slowly will carry it the rest..
     
    elkamino likes this.
  3. wow. dude. thanks a lot for replying to such an old post. Also, can you overcook a super soil? I know it calls for a 30 day cook off, but what if you leave it longer, like the entire summer?
     
  4.  
    sidewing

    sidewing Well-Known Member

    no, the longer you cook it the more stuff breaks down and becomes available. all soil amendments are not immediately available for the plant to use, they need to be broken down by soil bacteria first. that's what the cooking does. so it'll work better and you'll have less chance of burning your plants like you can possibly do if you overapply without 'cooking'. I've personally used my mix with no cook before in a pinch and everything was fine for a mature well rooted plant. but 30 days is just a ball park figure. soil is not like hydro, ball park figures are all that matters.. nothing needs to be precise unless you're using raw salts that are immediately available and water soluble.. like epsom salt for example.
     
  5.  
    sidewing

    sidewing Well-Known Member

    certain things take longer than others. finely ground guano can be available in a week or less. and get used up within a couple weeks. pellet guano takes longer to break and and lasts longer. bone meals take longer to break down.. they are usually the slow release sources that the plant uses mid to late in flower.
     
  6.  
    Organja

    Organja Well-Known Member

    This is a great thread! It should be re awoken with what we have above, new ideas on an old topic. Time has passed, things have evolved, and recipes change.

    I am working on my own super soil using down to earth products. I am planning to use their bio-live and AACT in a 10 gallon, cover-cropped super soil!

    Good work here side-wing, thanks for sharing and revisiting an old topic!

    What AACT are you using?
     
  7.  
    sidewing

    sidewing Well-Known Member

    I just use ewc and Alaska humus. It's cheap and has all the diversity you need. A large pinch of each, 4 gallons of ro water, and 2tsp of sucanat. Then bubbled for 24-36 hours.

    That's if it's going in soil. If it needs to be clean of clumps and debris I'll use a half tsp of mycogrow soluble powder in place of the ewc/humus.
     
    elkamino likes this.
  8.  
    sidewing

    sidewing Well-Known Member

    I'm a fan of dte products also. Great company. Now I'm growing under t5 with a 2 foot plastic planter that I put 4 plants per container. And I just use roots original, then top dress with a half cup of each per bed of high p bat guano, blood meal, fish bone meal, kelp, alfalfa meal, and 1 cup of azomite.

    I retired the high intensity lights and I'm strictly a personal grower now. I only smoke like a gram a week. So if I harvest an ounce a month, that's plenty
     
    elkamino likes this.
  9.  
    Organja

    Organja Well-Known Member

    Sounds legit man! Why not mix the bone, kelp, azo, and alfalfa into the soil to begin with? Most of them need a bit of break down time. Blood and guano are more readily avail. Not knocking your style! Do what works for you! I just like discussions! It's what I do!

    Are you familiar with kelplex from DTE? .5-0-17? Water soluble kelp and pot ash.
     
  10.  
    sidewing

    sidewing Well-Known Member

    No I'll have to look into it.

    The roots organic has enough alone to carry them for a month. The additives are for the final month of flower.

    I know the bone meals take a while, the others in my opinion don't take longer than a week or so
     
  11.  
    banker

    banker New Member

    Sidewing, is your original recipe good for autoflowers and how much water do you use to cook it.
     
  12.  
    sidewing

    sidewing Well-Known Member

    I think it'll be fine. I use 4 gallons
     
  13.  
    dbossmanfl01

    dbossmanfl01 Member

    Hey how are you was wondering the soil you are using whats the name of it...also the ingredient used whats the brand i mto try a grow using super soil thanks...
     
  14.  
    sidewing

    sidewing Well-Known Member

    The latest revision is at the top of this page.
     
  15.  
    dbossmanfl01

    dbossmanfl01 Member

    Question are we adding these amendments to this roots organic natural
    ...it has alot of stuff in it do we still put the ingrediants in it still....
     
  16.  
    banker

    banker New Member

    sidewing:
    I live in a hot humid state can I cook my super soil outside in a covered plastic container or should I leave it inside.

    you added neem seed meal to your new recipe, what does that do for the soil.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  17.  
    sidewing

    sidewing Well-Known Member

    Yes, the purpose is to give it enough to carry through at least 2 months of flower with no deficiencies. Roots original will carry it for a month at best.

    Yes that's how I do mine, outside works best.
    Neem will help protect your soil from pests (just like neem oil sprayed on plants). It also adds some diversity to the microbial aspect.

    If you want to run with a bare minimum mix which is fine just add fish bone meal, high p guano, blood meal, and azomite. The base soil has enough for the first month alone. Fish bone meal adding long release phosphorus and a little nitrogen, high p guano is faster acting phosphorus and also used up faster for the first month of flower, blood meal is slow release nitrogen for the 2nd month of flower, and azomite is just awesome stuff that supplies everything else, all the micro nutrients.. You can even top dress with a little more azomite going into the 2nd month if you want.
     
    elkamino likes this.
  18.  
    banker

    banker New Member

    I'm growing auto's from start to finish in 3 gal fabric pots under 14 (23 watt cfl's) How much SS should I use for each pot.
    Thanks for all your help. Banker
     
  19.  
    sidewing

    sidewing Well-Known Member

    Fill it up. It might be a little hot for a freshly sprouted seed, so start the seed in plain roots originals then transplant at least a couple weeks after sprout
     
  20.  
    banker

    banker New Member

    Everything I've read about autoflower cannabis says, not to transplant because of the short lifespan.
    auto's flower in about 21 days and the stress of transplanting might stunt them. You know more about growing then me, I just wanted to double check.
     

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