sharing my modified subcool super soil recipe
- Thread starter sidewing
- Start date
If you get the querkle (short, urkle dom pheno) that everyone wants, which isnt very hard... buy a 10 pack... run 5.... see what you get.... run them again... see what you think.... run them again... see what you think.... if you dont get what you want; scrap them and run the other 5... you will get the one you want but you need to run it each female at least 2-3 times "*right*" from clone.... and on point... and then decide...
The people that knock TGA's gear are the ones that cant grow for shit.... You need to run subcools gear from clone... bottom line... and you need to grow it right before you knock it... A lot of people grow their shit on point but then they drop the ball at harvest and pull their shit 2 weeks early cuz the saw 1 broken trich stalk that turned amber; and they hacked a plant with white pistils and way before they even should have been looking at it with a bud scope; and have the balls to talk shit about potency... Also, the time frames given are guides... most are gonna go longer, the shorter the posted time frame for a particular strain; the higher the sales $$$$ will be... there is some truth to them but they are the shortest recorded time the strain was ever grown, period... dot dot dot... so keep that in mind... a plants done when a plants done... I've had 8-9 week plants going on 12-13 because of an unexpected cold snap... I have a hard time believing everyone has a 100% perfectly optimized grow room to grow these plants in as well (those that talk shit I speak of...)
People like to come off as if they're perfect and because they say; or someone the like says;... its fact... run any gear you want... if you buy seeds from any reputable breeder...whos strains are being talked about; good, bad; indifferent.... its more than likely worth a try... Run it for yourself, give it an honest shot... Most strains need more time to mature in clone form as well as they need to be grown right by us and more importantly grown to perfection; harvested at the PROPER time; dried and cured PROPERLY.... Then.... you can judge a strain... But I really cant stand the length of bullshit people go through when they're more concerned with what breeders what....rather than the fact that they're a mediocre grower at best... hone your skills... grow your shit... do it better next time... I dont have time to talk shit anymore... I'd rather learn about soil and better methods of harvesting/curing and what not... fuck the hating... And I'm only here talking shit now because I cant grow weed anymore and I'm off work today so.... cherish this insanity thou blesses thy with....
However... I got too busy (cuz I was high.....) talking shit, I forgot to tell you what else was good from tga.... querkle.... obviously... the void... amazing if you like apollo or a very creative "up" type high with absolutely no paranoia... "awesome art weed" its called by those that have had it... yields like crazy too... Jillybean is ok... its good weed to smoke with chicks who dont always smoke weed; its not too heavy hitting and its very mood elevating but most people will say "its not potent"... just a different high... but not killer.. yields heavy... the most amazing flavors aside from querkle as far as fruity I think.. querkle is also potent though...
chernobyl is good... not the best yielder but worth a grow... more veg time and keeping it as short as possible will help yield... all benefit from more veg time... also dont bother growing organic if you cant run big pots as mentioned... 7 to 10 gallon minimum and 2 months of veg will be producing monster yields of any strain if your doing it right...
Cheesequake... awesome but dont use any hot soil like subcools supersoil, or the modified SS until you get it into flower and topdress it at the beginning otherwise theres a chance it'll herm... one of the cheesy phenos doesnt like any kind of hot soil in veg and can be ran on basically bagged soil all the way up to flower with minimal additions other than castings and a tea, if that much... but the other pheno is a HEAVY eater... If you are any kind of competent grower, keep this in mind and before they are ready for big pots you'll know which pheno is which but its another good one... I like heavier feeding/grape-cherry one...
They're all good honestly... Buy strains based on their high type/medical benefit description and you wont be disappointed.... Seriously... the only time I've ever been disappointed with TGA gear is when "I" (me me me me me) failed to let the plants finish properly... When you think they're done.... wait a week more.. I forgot who said that but its the truth...
I'll throw one out for a non TGA strain though... SAGE by TH seeds... killer killer killer... grew 2 seeds twice after getting clones and had to stop... hating it... amazing MMJ though... quickly moving up in my favorites list behind the void and querkle... I have a little bit curing that I will be hanging onto for deal life...As for the rest of TGA Ive passed on way to many good strains to wanna think about so I plan on stocking up a little catalog until I get going again and start from scratch....
Happy new year everyone... May we all experience greener grows this year... Hopefully I'll get a chance to slap some of the modded SS together before this time next year..
Last edited:
TRK
Active Member
Hi guys just wanted to introduce myself and make my first post with some organics-related questions. Any guidance anyone can offer will be highly valued and appreciated.
I've recently been pretty taken in by the latest wave of 'SuperSoil' hysteria (yes I am a whore for memes hehehe), and always wanting to push results as far as can be achieved, I've decided I want to go back to basics and try an organic mix, which depending on my calculations being correct, may or may not need to be fed with Guano Tea or whatever, an eventuality that I'm cool with; we'll let the plants tell us what they require and when... Before anyone says it; I know the whole idea of supersoil is to be able to just add water etc. blah blah blah BLAH BLAH (and that's nothing short of fucking awesome, Subcool is the man, but it's just not an absolute requirement for my situation). The layering of the soil is certainly something I can prescribe to, although many people say it's better to make a homogenous mix and just cut the super with more bag soil when vegging in the smaller pots. I will be layering mine I reckon. I already achieve strong results with my inorganic liquid nute regimen(can get some photos up should someone be keen for a look), but just want to take it the extra mile in terms of the finer points, not just yield and cannabinoid content, both of which are always good at worst and excellent at best. After seeing some supersoil and TLO results over the last few years I'm taking the plunge and I've gone out on the town in sunny Switzerland where I live at the moment and purloined the following:
Plagron Bio-Supermix (1.2-1.6-0.35)... Contains feather meal, bone meal, Peruvian and Indo Guanos, Rock Phosphate, Maerl, Bentonite, Basalt, Kelp Meal, Lava Meal, Bacteria and Fungal. (Don't say it please; I already feel dirty using a large-company pre-mix, but some of these ingredients are SO damn hard to come by where I'm at, and the cost of transporting loads of single bags internationally, I just couldn't bring myself to do it)
Plagron Bat Guano (3-15-4)... Stimulates bio-life.
Plagron Mega Worm EWC... (100% castings from Dendrobena Veneta) Rich in bio-life and stimulates more of it.
Oekohum Bio Univeral Earth... Contains no peat, humus from greengoods and bark, coconut fibre, wood fibre, pumice with bio-fert from horn and semolina. pH of substrate 6.3,range 5.9-6.7; EC 1.9-2.0, 20% organic substances
Peltracom 307 Professional Substrate... VERY EXPENSIVE pH stabilized pure peat and perlite mix. EC 0.0 pH 6.0
Oekohum Coco Gold (2.7-0.7-3 with 0.4 Mg)... A pure coco shell mulch of sorts with much heavier mid-size chips of coco not the usual fibre strands or fine stuff.
Oekohum Bio Nutritional Humus (0.5-0.25-0.35 with 0.15 Mg) Rich in bio-life.
Hauert Biorga Composted Manure(0.6-0.3-0.6min through 0.9-0.5-0.9max) 10-15% organic substance from cows and horses, 5-10% from plants. Rich in bio-life.
Perlite
Hydroleca / expanded clay
I also had lying around the house from my other grows some AN Voodoo Juice and Piranha liquids which so long as they'd be alright to use as liquids in my mix (help someone please let me know if they shouldn't be added to the soil pre-cook) as I imagine they would be. I won't be adding much Piranha till the plants go in as I'm told Myco dies if there is no root host present within 24 hours, but Tricho does still bind without roots so we'll whack a little in 'fore she cooks; can't hurt... Again if any of this information strikes you as inaccurate please correct me. I'm never too old to learn something new and your advice will be greatly appreciated and taken on-board
So really my question for the organics champions out there is how much of what? Anything else you'd go for? I am formulating enough to make about 400 liters of the cooked stuff, and will have some left or obtain more of the base mix to layer with...
I am also working on my mix in the meantime on paper and comparing, researching etc so I will post my thoughts soon as I have something put together a little better, just wanted to get this post up so I could have some replies and thoughts coming in while I went to work on it. I have about 27 days or so till I will need the mix so really need to get on it to have decent cooking time.
To a large degree Subcool's mix is the Gold Standard that is widely accepted by those that don't grow organic and don't know but is not so widely and entirely accepted by aficionados of organics in general and I'd love to know why to be honest. I feel the results speak for themselves, obviously, but Sub's mix strikes me as a tad high in nitrogen as I'll only be blooming with this mix with maybe just one week of veg to get the girls settled in when they are potted-up to their final homes. Has anyone else thought this over?
Also obviously the 1/3 to 1/2 layering tech that Sub speaks of is in relation to a 7 gallon (approx 26 liter) pot, but he's growing large beasts and few of them whilst I grow more manageable beasts and more of them currently with my inorganic liquids and light-mix combo in smaller 14 liter pots that can actually be filled extra high to incorporate about 15.5 liters. Will I need to adapt my style to fewer, larger plants to take advantage of Sub's methods? Or will these third to a half full pot measurements be needing upscaling due to the smaller size pots?
Jesus christ, that was a long post... Sorry if I killed you with boredom reading all of it but there's just so many questions and as you guys know very well by now I'm sure, the world is full of so called 'expert of everything and master of nothing' fuckhead stoner wannabes that throw about regurgitated, outdated, and often just plain wrong information in the name of appearing knowledgeable among their friends. So I thought the internet and in particular Rollitup Forums might have the answers without the bullshit. Everything and anything you've got to say on the matter please guys, please no blah blah about FFOF and Roots etc, you can't get it in Europe. And yes I am sure this topic has been heavily discussed here before and I've read most of the supersoil threads but wading my way through the three hundred pages of organics forum headers was just a little too much at this stage I thought, along with the fact that I'm not hardline to using Subcool's approach; if anyone has any other ideas I'd love to hear about it. My apologies to the mods if this post should be somewhere else and thanks again enlightened posters of the forums, it's sites like this and people such as yourself who make wading through the bullshit possible.
Cheers and Peace
Timmy
I've recently been pretty taken in by the latest wave of 'SuperSoil' hysteria (yes I am a whore for memes hehehe), and always wanting to push results as far as can be achieved, I've decided I want to go back to basics and try an organic mix, which depending on my calculations being correct, may or may not need to be fed with Guano Tea or whatever, an eventuality that I'm cool with; we'll let the plants tell us what they require and when... Before anyone says it; I know the whole idea of supersoil is to be able to just add water etc. blah blah blah BLAH BLAH (and that's nothing short of fucking awesome, Subcool is the man, but it's just not an absolute requirement for my situation). The layering of the soil is certainly something I can prescribe to, although many people say it's better to make a homogenous mix and just cut the super with more bag soil when vegging in the smaller pots. I will be layering mine I reckon. I already achieve strong results with my inorganic liquid nute regimen(can get some photos up should someone be keen for a look), but just want to take it the extra mile in terms of the finer points, not just yield and cannabinoid content, both of which are always good at worst and excellent at best. After seeing some supersoil and TLO results over the last few years I'm taking the plunge and I've gone out on the town in sunny Switzerland where I live at the moment and purloined the following:
Plagron Bio-Supermix (1.2-1.6-0.35)... Contains feather meal, bone meal, Peruvian and Indo Guanos, Rock Phosphate, Maerl, Bentonite, Basalt, Kelp Meal, Lava Meal, Bacteria and Fungal. (Don't say it please; I already feel dirty using a large-company pre-mix, but some of these ingredients are SO damn hard to come by where I'm at, and the cost of transporting loads of single bags internationally, I just couldn't bring myself to do it)
Plagron Bat Guano (3-15-4)... Stimulates bio-life.
Plagron Mega Worm EWC... (100% castings from Dendrobena Veneta) Rich in bio-life and stimulates more of it.
Oekohum Bio Univeral Earth... Contains no peat, humus from greengoods and bark, coconut fibre, wood fibre, pumice with bio-fert from horn and semolina. pH of substrate 6.3,range 5.9-6.7; EC 1.9-2.0, 20% organic substances
Peltracom 307 Professional Substrate... VERY EXPENSIVE pH stabilized pure peat and perlite mix. EC 0.0 pH 6.0
Oekohum Coco Gold (2.7-0.7-3 with 0.4 Mg)... A pure coco shell mulch of sorts with much heavier mid-size chips of coco not the usual fibre strands or fine stuff.
Oekohum Bio Nutritional Humus (0.5-0.25-0.35 with 0.15 Mg) Rich in bio-life.
Hauert Biorga Composted Manure(0.6-0.3-0.6min through 0.9-0.5-0.9max) 10-15% organic substance from cows and horses, 5-10% from plants. Rich in bio-life.
Perlite
Hydroleca / expanded clay
I also had lying around the house from my other grows some AN Voodoo Juice and Piranha liquids which so long as they'd be alright to use as liquids in my mix (help someone please let me know if they shouldn't be added to the soil pre-cook) as I imagine they would be. I won't be adding much Piranha till the plants go in as I'm told Myco dies if there is no root host present within 24 hours, but Tricho does still bind without roots so we'll whack a little in 'fore she cooks; can't hurt... Again if any of this information strikes you as inaccurate please correct me. I'm never too old to learn something new and your advice will be greatly appreciated and taken on-board
So really my question for the organics champions out there is how much of what? Anything else you'd go for? I am formulating enough to make about 400 liters of the cooked stuff, and will have some left or obtain more of the base mix to layer with...
I am also working on my mix in the meantime on paper and comparing, researching etc so I will post my thoughts soon as I have something put together a little better, just wanted to get this post up so I could have some replies and thoughts coming in while I went to work on it. I have about 27 days or so till I will need the mix so really need to get on it to have decent cooking time.
To a large degree Subcool's mix is the Gold Standard that is widely accepted by those that don't grow organic and don't know but is not so widely and entirely accepted by aficionados of organics in general and I'd love to know why to be honest. I feel the results speak for themselves, obviously, but Sub's mix strikes me as a tad high in nitrogen as I'll only be blooming with this mix with maybe just one week of veg to get the girls settled in when they are potted-up to their final homes. Has anyone else thought this over?
Also obviously the 1/3 to 1/2 layering tech that Sub speaks of is in relation to a 7 gallon (approx 26 liter) pot, but he's growing large beasts and few of them whilst I grow more manageable beasts and more of them currently with my inorganic liquids and light-mix combo in smaller 14 liter pots that can actually be filled extra high to incorporate about 15.5 liters. Will I need to adapt my style to fewer, larger plants to take advantage of Sub's methods? Or will these third to a half full pot measurements be needing upscaling due to the smaller size pots?
Jesus christ, that was a long post... Sorry if I killed you with boredom reading all of it but there's just so many questions and as you guys know very well by now I'm sure, the world is full of so called 'expert of everything and master of nothing' fuckhead stoner wannabes that throw about regurgitated, outdated, and often just plain wrong information in the name of appearing knowledgeable among their friends. So I thought the internet and in particular Rollitup Forums might have the answers without the bullshit. Everything and anything you've got to say on the matter please guys, please no blah blah about FFOF and Roots etc, you can't get it in Europe. And yes I am sure this topic has been heavily discussed here before and I've read most of the supersoil threads but wading my way through the three hundred pages of organics forum headers was just a little too much at this stage I thought, along with the fact that I'm not hardline to using Subcool's approach; if anyone has any other ideas I'd love to hear about it. My apologies to the mods if this post should be somewhere else and thanks again enlightened posters of the forums, it's sites like this and people such as yourself who make wading through the bullshit possible.
Cheers and Peace
Timmy
TRK
Active Member
Thanks for the kind words Warble. Nice one...
So here is the first shot at a mix. I will not list various mineral contents as that is in my previous post, just amounts
of what I reckon I could use...
150l / 5.30cu.ft. Bio Universal Earth
70l / 2.47cu.ft. Peltracom 307 Pro Substrate
50l / 1.76cu.ft. Nutrient Humus
35l / 1.24cu.ft. Cacao Gold (yes that's right I made a mistake in last post, and thought this was Coco, but its CACAO husks, apparently waste from chocolate industry; the German-only writing really tests my patience, welcome to Switzerland)
25l / 0.85cu.ft. Composted Manure
25l / approx. 30lbs Plagron Mega Worm EWC
40l / 1.41cu.ft. Perlite
30l / 1.06cu.ft. Expanded Clay (smashed up into smaller bits inside a cloth with a hammer)
5l / approx. 7lbs Plagron Bio-Supermix
5l / approx. 7lbs Plagron Bat Guano
1 two-handed handful of oatmeal or rice
Will this be lethally hot, does anyone reckon? Keep in mind that the Peltracom substrate is 0.0 EC please when you comment and if anyone has suggestions (you know: 'hey Timmy you gotta go and stick some more of that in there'), I'm all for it. Basically I will make the mix in the usual advertised way, activating / moistening it with a tea made from a touch of the EWC and Bat Guano which I'll then water in along with a ultra-hefty rate of Voodoo Juice, Piranha and some molasses or sucanat which should get the beastieherd roaring inside a couple of weeks I'm told by those more in the know than me (although I'll be going as close to the Subskie's thirty day rec with mine as my girls' current pots will allow; 25-27 days I reckon max unfortunately).
I'm adding pretty heavy amounts of the aerators I know, but there's so much various animal shit and hefty organic matter in this mix I'm concerned it'll turn into a fungus gnat infested, putrid smelling swamp once it's under the lights (as the naysayers have warned me it could) if I don't keep it as light as possible with various structure enhancing stuff. I figure the worst case is the mix is a tad light on nutrition a tad early and then we'll have to roll on with the compost tea or alternative organic methods such as top dressing etc, right? Certainly sounds better than the swamp option... Also I am led to believe the beastieherd will keep smells in check if they are well cared for with premium food such as black strap or sucanat, and some grain, which is the reason for the handful of oats or rice in the mix, an idea I poached from some videos and an article about creating that beastieherd web as quickly as possible, even without adding any myco or bacto powder / liquid if necessary to cut corners for cost or whatever or just to speed up the cooking process.
Please let me know if any of this strikes you as just plain not any good or unnecessary, downright incorrect, whatever... Organics are really my weakest suit when it comes to the grow show so I really need some old heads to give me a kick in the ass down the right mountainside so I can get this one rolling the right way the first time; nothing is more exasperating to me than investing my time and effort, not to mention my money and really applying myself to end up with results that are mediocre in nature. It's not honestly something I've had to fear for several years, but them supersoil / TLO / ROLS results just look so damn gnarly I just have to see if I could re-educate myself, in order to find a path that leads to achieving these same yield results with better flavinoid, terpenoid, resin, and colour profiles!! Not to mention the sick bag appeal produced by organics. Can I get a FUUUUCKK YYEEEAAAHHHH!!! Nobody remembers second place right?
These are my current thoughts guys; any and all input please, I'd love to get on with mixing it tomorrow and it would be awesome if I could do so with a touch more confidence... Wouldn't want the BlackJack and Critical+ 2.0 to get maimed by the heat of the mix when I wop them into it in nearly a month. I'm hella excited motherfuckers. I thought there was not a lot in the basic repertoire of growing abilities I had left to learn but shit was I wrong. Organics is giving me that buzz for new learning which I had when I started down this road just over ten years ago and it feels awesome to realise that I still have so much more refining of my technique to do, even after all this time. Much appreciated dudes and thanks...
Also I'll get some photos up of the current action tomorrow: Master Kush and The Doctor, end of the eighth week. I reckon they'll be going nine or so, maybe as soon as next few days for the first out of the gate as some phenos definitely have a bit of a speedier finish time than others this time round. They're ready when they're ready. Dates are for calendars, not marijuana. Nothing in nature operates to a Swiss chronograph, even in premium conditions. A couple always go a tad shorter or longer than the rest. Only the IBLs and obviously clones I've grown have had the homogeneity to harvest all on one date If you're not using proper magnification to inspect trichome maturity then you're really missing a critical tool in determining ripeness, which without one is practically impossible to do when you're still learning the trade. Judging ripeness by the eye and touch is not a quickly learned skill but certainly one worth giving the effort involved to learn it.
There I go; BLABBERING SHIT AGAIN..........................
Many thanks and keep them rolling
Timmy
well heres my opinion.. not sure why i didnt get a notification of a response to the thread. anyway.
i would not recommend running super soil on your plant from veg all the way thru end of flower indoor.. outdoor yes if you cant keep upsizing your pot. its going to deplete a lot of nitrogen early, leaving insufficent for flower. plant still needs plenty of nitrogen in flower. you can run just base soil in veg
and ESPECIALLY, if stuff is hard to come by, you can cut back on a lot of redundancy.. im sure the mix will work fine, more is not necessarily better, you just need to cover the basics. which is:
get a good base soil, your super mix bag (the first thing on the list) should be fine. just whatever soil you use, make sure it has good drainage. doesnt hurt to add more perlite to the mix if needed. you'll just be watering more.
you basically want something with all the micro nutrients, all the macronutrients, and diversity in your microbial life.
if i had to narrow it down, in my opinion, id just use the bag soil, mix with EWC, perlite (if it needs more drainage after the EWC mixed in), and a balanced guano. something with like a 1-2-# ratio of N-P.. and you need a product such as azomite.. which covers every aspect of your micro-nutrients. you want a slower release of N and P so it lasts 2 months thru flower. just because you're adding something that has nitrogen or phosphorus doesnt mean they all break down at the same rate.
then what i'd do is with that simple mix, every week brew a compost/microbial tea. a few gallons of unchlorinated water.. molasses or sucanat to feed the bacteria, and a air pump/airstone.. put a hand ful of humus and EWC into a mesh bag and suspend in the water with an airstone bubbling below it. brew for 24-48 hours. water your plants with that weekly.
also, if the mix is hot (which using dung fertilizer it may very well be) a longer cook time is better, the longer you cook the soil, the less chance of burning the plant.
in my opinion it is easy to be over optimistic throwing everything into the pot and making a gumbo soil mix thinking more is better.. but in the end even though it may work you'll just end up throwing more money at it then you needed to.
use hydro as an example. most nutrients are synthetic.. a good nutrient line has every micro and macro nutrient available. thats all the plant needs. then it needs light which you provide. then it needs a healthy root zone (oxygen!).. more oxygen the roots have the more they will thrive (while staying moisturized of course). now the difference in hydro/soil is the medium.. and soil has solid additives that need to be broken down. thats where bacteria/fungus come in.. and thats where the compost tea once a week comes in and gives a healthy dose of live bacteria and keeps things flourishing.
in synthetic nutrients you are force feeding the plant a direct form of food that doesnt need to be broken down. in organics/soil you are feeding the microbes in the soil.. which break everything down IN the soil, and turn it into a usable form for the plant.
keep it simple and cover your bases, no more no less. nobody can say if you're soil mix will work or if its too hot.. you're forging a new path and only way to know is to run it.
i would not recommend running super soil on your plant from veg all the way thru end of flower indoor.. outdoor yes if you cant keep upsizing your pot. its going to deplete a lot of nitrogen early, leaving insufficent for flower. plant still needs plenty of nitrogen in flower. you can run just base soil in veg
and ESPECIALLY, if stuff is hard to come by, you can cut back on a lot of redundancy.. im sure the mix will work fine, more is not necessarily better, you just need to cover the basics. which is:
get a good base soil, your super mix bag (the first thing on the list) should be fine. just whatever soil you use, make sure it has good drainage. doesnt hurt to add more perlite to the mix if needed. you'll just be watering more.
you basically want something with all the micro nutrients, all the macronutrients, and diversity in your microbial life.
if i had to narrow it down, in my opinion, id just use the bag soil, mix with EWC, perlite (if it needs more drainage after the EWC mixed in), and a balanced guano. something with like a 1-2-# ratio of N-P.. and you need a product such as azomite.. which covers every aspect of your micro-nutrients. you want a slower release of N and P so it lasts 2 months thru flower. just because you're adding something that has nitrogen or phosphorus doesnt mean they all break down at the same rate.
then what i'd do is with that simple mix, every week brew a compost/microbial tea. a few gallons of unchlorinated water.. molasses or sucanat to feed the bacteria, and a air pump/airstone.. put a hand ful of humus and EWC into a mesh bag and suspend in the water with an airstone bubbling below it. brew for 24-48 hours. water your plants with that weekly.
also, if the mix is hot (which using dung fertilizer it may very well be) a longer cook time is better, the longer you cook the soil, the less chance of burning the plant.
in my opinion it is easy to be over optimistic throwing everything into the pot and making a gumbo soil mix thinking more is better.. but in the end even though it may work you'll just end up throwing more money at it then you needed to.
use hydro as an example. most nutrients are synthetic.. a good nutrient line has every micro and macro nutrient available. thats all the plant needs. then it needs light which you provide. then it needs a healthy root zone (oxygen!).. more oxygen the roots have the more they will thrive (while staying moisturized of course). now the difference in hydro/soil is the medium.. and soil has solid additives that need to be broken down. thats where bacteria/fungus come in.. and thats where the compost tea once a week comes in and gives a healthy dose of live bacteria and keeps things flourishing.
in synthetic nutrients you are force feeding the plant a direct form of food that doesnt need to be broken down. in organics/soil you are feeding the microbes in the soil.. which break everything down IN the soil, and turn it into a usable form for the plant.
keep it simple and cover your bases, no more no less. nobody can say if you're soil mix will work or if its too hot.. you're forging a new path and only way to know is to run it.
Sunny Organics
Well-Known Member
Sidewing, you need a medal man. Honestly thank you for all your help and time you dedicated to this thread in advance. I have a silly, or might be an important question.. im not completely sure what the difference between full-humix Humic Acid Concentrate and the regular Down to Earth granulate Humic Acid is. Is there a difference between the two? will i be safe using the full-humix from bioag at the same ratio for your recipe?
RReez
Well-Known Member
Quick Update.....Even tho I messed up the mix my girls are doing great. No problems or deficiencies at all. I ended up putting 2 much kelp. And I used down 2 earth bat guano and kelp as well and they still performed great. They should be ready to chop next week. I could probably go at least twelve weeks with this mix because their not fading at all. Im at 8 weeks now everything looks beautiful. So Thanks again Bro I appreciate the help and recipe.
SN I have to spread the word about a seed bank that I don't hear people talk'n about much. SWEET SEEDS....
Green Poison F1 fast version... This is Fire...Super Citrus Flavor....Super Frosty....and just Super LOUD...
Wild Rose .....Not done yet but smells Super Stank at 8 weeks.....
Black Cream (Auto) Nice flavor, Super Loud....and nice bag appeal....Super Dark color.....
But that Green Poison is Fire......
Stay away from Barneys Farm LSD.....Super Wack....No flavor....Not loud....Super Regs....Jus sucked....
Stay away from Reserva Privada Purple Wreck.....Just Weak....Weak flavor....Weak hint of smell....just week......
I might have gotten a bad batch but I might not have.....I wouldnt buy them again ever.....
SN I have to spread the word about a seed bank that I don't hear people talk'n about much. SWEET SEEDS....
Green Poison F1 fast version... This is Fire...Super Citrus Flavor....Super Frosty....and just Super LOUD...
Wild Rose .....Not done yet but smells Super Stank at 8 weeks.....
Black Cream (Auto) Nice flavor, Super Loud....and nice bag appeal....Super Dark color.....
But that Green Poison is Fire......
Stay away from Barneys Farm LSD.....Super Wack....No flavor....Not loud....Super Regs....Jus sucked....
Stay away from Reserva Privada Purple Wreck.....Just Weak....Weak flavor....Weak hint of smell....just week......
I might have gotten a bad batch but I might not have.....I wouldnt buy them again ever.....
Letstrip
Well-Known Member
Damn im running LSD well see how she goes
RReez
Well-Known Member
Like I said I might have got a bad pheno......Ive read good reports on LSD and saw a few good grow journals but the pheno I had was just the worst. I hated it so bad....Plus I'm not the first to say that either. Its just not worth it to chance in my opinion cuz theres other stuff out there thats gonna be 10x better anyways.
Hopefully you dont get the same pheno I had bro.....Good Luck
Hopefully you dont get the same pheno I had bro.....Good Luck
plants like the kelp.. a lot of 'high end(and by end i mean priced)' products used in flower to add on crystals/oils (basically claims to be potency boosters) are just a watered down kelp extract. they use the natural growth hormone found in kelp which plants like, and they charge a pretty penny for it, while just using some kelp will give you the same benefit at a fraction of the cost.
the other growth hormone companies do the same with is found in alfalfa meal.
that being said im a few rounds into DWC (deep water culture) and im loving it for the most part. another learning curve initially, and the plants are not forgiving at all if mistakes are made. my first 2 crops were baby yields in comparison. i yielded probably 1 1/2 full OUNCES over 2 crops before i got things dialed in. my 3rd pull was much better at about 7 ounces. (this is 3 plants in a 13 gallon bucket, on half of a 1k.. so 500 watts basically, only a month of veg).
im happy with DWC, im using a 1 part nutrient powder from gen hydro called maxibloom (and maxigrow respectively in veg and early flower). its actually cheaper, nutrient cost wise, than super soil.. a $20 bag of nutrients is looking to last about a year. my electricity bill is more expensive though because of the air pumps. and also i need to keep the AC a little cooler.
but the upside is now im able to run 2 buckets under a 1k, and harvest a bucket (3-4 plants) every month. and they only get a month of veg.. versus soil where i'd have to veg for 2 months and harvest 4 plants under a 1k. im yielding basically in 1 month of hydro what i would yield in 2 months of soil.
the plants grow so fast in veg in hydro. i cut clones and put 1 in hydro and 2 in soil.. same conditions everything. the plant in hydro after 5 weeks is literally 400% larger than the plant in soil side by side. and so much more root mass in hydro.
the idea of using 'synthetic' chemicals at first turned me off as ive always been a natural soil farmer, but more research showed that plants use synthetic and natural exactly the same. the only difference being the natural stuff has to be broken down and turned into a usable form by the bennies in the soil. but after that.. its the EXACT same thing. synthetic nutrients dont need to be flushed if you are running low PPM's and not trying to force feed the plant more than it needs. i still like to do a gradual fade during the final 3 weeks. ill drop by EC level from 1.7 and let it taper down the final 3 weeks. the smoke has been great doing it this method. this next cycle im going to do the taper for 2 weeks, and then the final week flush the res and refill with water only.. just to see if it makes a difference at all in the final product.
but im loving not having to lug bags of soil, order several boxes of amendments, mix the soil, and just having soil remnants all over the floor everywhere, and having mounds of 'old flower soil' stacking up in my yard.
im sold on the hydro for now.
the other growth hormone companies do the same with is found in alfalfa meal.
that being said im a few rounds into DWC (deep water culture) and im loving it for the most part. another learning curve initially, and the plants are not forgiving at all if mistakes are made. my first 2 crops were baby yields in comparison. i yielded probably 1 1/2 full OUNCES over 2 crops before i got things dialed in. my 3rd pull was much better at about 7 ounces. (this is 3 plants in a 13 gallon bucket, on half of a 1k.. so 500 watts basically, only a month of veg).
im happy with DWC, im using a 1 part nutrient powder from gen hydro called maxibloom (and maxigrow respectively in veg and early flower). its actually cheaper, nutrient cost wise, than super soil.. a $20 bag of nutrients is looking to last about a year. my electricity bill is more expensive though because of the air pumps. and also i need to keep the AC a little cooler.
but the upside is now im able to run 2 buckets under a 1k, and harvest a bucket (3-4 plants) every month. and they only get a month of veg.. versus soil where i'd have to veg for 2 months and harvest 4 plants under a 1k. im yielding basically in 1 month of hydro what i would yield in 2 months of soil.
the plants grow so fast in veg in hydro. i cut clones and put 1 in hydro and 2 in soil.. same conditions everything. the plant in hydro after 5 weeks is literally 400% larger than the plant in soil side by side. and so much more root mass in hydro.
the idea of using 'synthetic' chemicals at first turned me off as ive always been a natural soil farmer, but more research showed that plants use synthetic and natural exactly the same. the only difference being the natural stuff has to be broken down and turned into a usable form by the bennies in the soil. but after that.. its the EXACT same thing. synthetic nutrients dont need to be flushed if you are running low PPM's and not trying to force feed the plant more than it needs. i still like to do a gradual fade during the final 3 weeks. ill drop by EC level from 1.7 and let it taper down the final 3 weeks. the smoke has been great doing it this method. this next cycle im going to do the taper for 2 weeks, and then the final week flush the res and refill with water only.. just to see if it makes a difference at all in the final product.
but im loving not having to lug bags of soil, order several boxes of amendments, mix the soil, and just having soil remnants all over the floor everywhere, and having mounds of 'old flower soil' stacking up in my yard.
im sold on the hydro for now.
elkamino
Well-Known Member
Well hell sidewing. I've been lurking in your thread for a few years now and you've been a supersoil mentor for me... So it blows me away to hear you've gone hydro!
You're so knowledgeable about soil processes and have been so willing to write long responses helping others achieve the right recipe well to change horses now must be exciting!
I've grown in a few different styles over the years, some have been better than others but all were fun. Best of luck with your new hydro adventures, will you be posting elsewhere at RIU now that you've dumped soil?
yes i have my log up at a different site. im happy with hydro. its easier once dialed in. never have to lug heavy soil containers around between cycles. and my veg time is unbelievable. i swear the plants in veg are literally 4 times as large as the plants in soil right next to it, exact same conditions (i cut clones, put a couple in soil as a safety backup/mother plant). the way im doing it is much cheaper (other than having to buy a RO filter) on the nutrients. the flavor is not as sweet as soil initially, it takes a good month of cure to get it there. but harvesting twice the amount of herb in the same amount of time is a hard thing to come back from. i like that i can see the roots, their health. know the exact conditions my plant is in at any given time. know the nutrient strength, the water temperature, the ph. its easier to diagnose a problem. but on the same token, a problem can completely ruin your harvest within a day. where in soil its pretty hard to mess up. there's give and take. but im already invested this far, its cleaner and easier on my back (which i have chronic pain for years now). and the herb is damn good 
now that ive researched heavily the synthetic side of things, i think the organic/soil is a little overhyped. as long as you are just running a complete nutrient, no extra 'miracle additive' bs, no crazy growth hormones.. the plant is doing the exact same thing. just dont need a microlife in the soil to break it down anymore. i still use beneficial bacteria tea in my hydro reservoir to keep root zone healthy though. and it helps with plant uptake by widening the PH availability range. i harvest on day 70, so starting on day 49, i top off the EC at full strength nutrients. and then i dont top off with nutrients anymore after that. i let the plant eat and eat, and just top off with RO water. so the nutrient strength is dropping slowly. the plant likes this at the end of its life. then on day 63 i drain the res, and refill with plain RO for the final week to really get the final product clean. the herb is already done by this point and can be harvested. but i give it that extra week to amber up a little more, and clean out the final product. its not really necessary, but my point in doing it this way is to have the herb as smooth as possible after harvest. and not have to wait the month cure time before it starts getting really smooth. ive harvested with full strength nutrients all the way to the end and it still smokes good, burns to a clean ash, no sparking or anything. its just the subtle differences.
now that ive researched heavily the synthetic side of things, i think the organic/soil is a little overhyped. as long as you are just running a complete nutrient, no extra 'miracle additive' bs, no crazy growth hormones.. the plant is doing the exact same thing. just dont need a microlife in the soil to break it down anymore. i still use beneficial bacteria tea in my hydro reservoir to keep root zone healthy though. and it helps with plant uptake by widening the PH availability range. i harvest on day 70, so starting on day 49, i top off the EC at full strength nutrients. and then i dont top off with nutrients anymore after that. i let the plant eat and eat, and just top off with RO water. so the nutrient strength is dropping slowly. the plant likes this at the end of its life. then on day 63 i drain the res, and refill with plain RO for the final week to really get the final product clean. the herb is already done by this point and can be harvested. but i give it that extra week to amber up a little more, and clean out the final product. its not really necessary, but my point in doing it this way is to have the herb as smooth as possible after harvest. and not have to wait the month cure time before it starts getting really smooth. ive harvested with full strength nutrients all the way to the end and it still smokes good, burns to a clean ash, no sparking or anything. its just the subtle differences.
