Organic Growing: An Introductory Guide

Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
calliandra said:
Yeah I did want to try DE a while back too.
But just the fact that it can be dangerous to inhale makes it iffey to me.
I don't like the idea of the way it functions - it cuts up fungus gnat larva bodies that move over it?
So what about the soil mites and others who I WANT to have in there, will they get injured too?
Enough questions to make me drop diatomaceous earth before I even picked it up ;)

In fact, I'm so sceptical that I would say what worked in your case was more likely the sticky paper + letting the topsoil dry out. Just think on it: your soil was dry, with the DE sprinkled on it.
Where do the fungus gnat larvae live? in the moist.
So pretty sure they weren't romping around on that dry soil, getting themselves breaded up with DE, which then killed them...Yeah it may have zapped some in the fly stage, as they landed to lay eggs...? :bigjoint:
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The food grade is not as bad for your lungs...but like @NaturalFarmer said...most people end up with the shit from home depot. I think the brand Lowe's carries is food grade...but I can't remember.

@calliandra I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure you're right that it cuts up and kills some of your beneficial soil bugs along with the gnats.

IMO it doesn't do that great of job killing gnats. As soon as you water its useless and if it only works when your soil is dry...and drying out your soil is how you get rid of gnats...seems like a pointless product for this issue.

I prefer rosemary oil based products but am currently trying mosquito dunks but like the de I fear it might kill more than I want but we will see.
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
Fungus gnats are annoying and easy to kill but root aphids need DE to kill and even then you may need hot water. The DE wont kill beneficials because it is a top dress and the microbes have no reason to go to the surface.

The mosquito dunks contain about 2% BTi which IMO is not nearly enough. I really like a cheap product called Microbelift.

This stuff is under $20 and contains 8% BTi in drops so you aren't paying for cork. The Mosquito dunks will work but they cost a lot. I bought one bottle of this a year ago and I still have about 1/4 left and I use it a lot as a preventative.

https://www.microbelift.com/products/birdbath-and-fountain/mosquito-control/

Still not as good as Gnatrol but cheaper.

I have not found that the BTi kills any microbes.
 
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NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
You only want to use fulvic acid when you are planted, it won't help you otherwise.
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Humic acid is a much larger molecule and should be used in the soil but fulvics are best used with foliars because of their smaller size.....Am I mistaken here? Or were you saying that using fulvic in soil is worthless? The product I have (Leonardite based) is a 10% humic 5% Fulvic blend
 
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calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
I prefer rosemary oil based products but am currently trying mosquito dunks but like the de I fear it might kill more than I want but we will see.
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NaturalFarmer said:
I have not found that the BTi kills any microbes.
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I took the opportunity to read up a bit on this Bacillus Thuringiensis and learned something haha
I didn't know that actually the way BT is effective is via an insecticidal toxin it carries within itself, and that what it kills depends on the specific strain.
So if anything, it would be toxin accumulations in the soil due to the increased BT numbers we're adding in that could have negative effects.
I tried googling that, but seems BT is what Monsanto grafted into their GMO's, and there's research going nooo harm, nooo harm all over? haha
 
Fastslappy

Fastslappy

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
"Bacterial pathogens used for insect control are spore-forming, rod-shaped bacteria in the genus Bacillus. They occur commonly in soils, and most insecticidal strains have been isolated from soil samples"

http://www.entomology.wisc.edu/mbcn/fea207.html

Why does it matter that Monsanto has tried using BT?
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BT works well as soil drench , didn't kill my herd last summer & is what actually stop the progression of the life cycle of my infestation once I had knocked down the vast majority of fliers & crawlers
all this was caused by me using a soil top dress that had sat outside the gh on a few warm nights
two days later the top soils in the tubs (with trees in them ) were alive with white baby crawlers maybe a 1/16" long the battle was on :wall:
looked at 1st like fungus but then i seen it was moving :finger:
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
I don't think BTi is a cure all, and for me I did a soil drench with 5x recommended dose of BTi then top dressed with 2" of DE and 2" of sand. This knocked down the Root aphids and Fungus gnats but it was a pain in the ass. An infestation of root aphids is scary. If I wasn't against Monsanto I would be using Met 52, but I have been reading about using precise temped water at like 118 degrees worked better than anything.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Fastslappy said:
for me it's just one part of pest management , it's not a cure-all
but u'll find it (BT) works better if left to sit & colonize the water 1st before applying is what i found out last summer
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I've been trying this...just leaving a thing of it in my water resoviors all the time.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
Humic acid is a much larger molecule and should be used in the soil but fulvics are best used with foliars because of their smaller size.....Am I mistaken here? Or were you saying that using fulvic in soil is worthless? The product I have (Leonardite based) is a 10% humic 5% Fulvic blend
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You are right about humic acid being better for roots and fulvics being better for foliar feeds...however...I'm not a fan of the quality of most humic acids, with the exception of bio ag...so I always reccomend fulvics over humics for that reason. Better quality.

And I was telling him not to apply fulvics into his soil if there weren't plants in it. He was asking about using it for speeding up or enriching the compost process.
 
NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
I agree with you. I have a big jug of leonardite humic but I will be making my own once that is done. Sounds like the bases most use are not much different than coal. As east that is my understanding.
 
Fastslappy

Fastslappy

Well-Known Member
my understanding is it's less fossilized than hard coal , not sure but it might not even burn
I use
a powered form i get on amazon that dissolves 100% & make my own jugs @ a faction of cost
I was using this back with G/H Nova nutes 3 years ago & it worked well even then
once i figured out what really was in that G/H Floroulious plus ,
i made my own after a $135 jug of the shit went mty
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
NaturalFarmer said:
Why does it matter that Monsanto has tried using BT?
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I meant that because Monsanto has used BT to build their GMOs, there are studies analyzing whether the BT in the GM-plants leaches to the environment to an extent that causes harmful toxicity.
So lots of research saying BT toxins in the soil aren't a problem -- but that's not necessarily true, since Monsanto is often also the (indirect) funder of that research.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
You are right about humic acid being better for roots and fulvics being better for foliar feeds...however...I'm not a fan of the quality of most humic acids, with the exception of bio ag...so I always reccomend fulvics over humics for that reason. Better quality.

And I was telling him not to apply fulvics into his soil if there weren't plants in it. He was asking about using it for speeding up or enriching the compost process.
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do you use any extra fulvic or humic acids man?
just curious, considering you're a compost-junkie like me, just not sure if there is any advantage to it for compost users
 
Chunky Stool

Chunky Stool

Well-Known Member
Has anyone else noticed that liquid humic acid products are only 2-6% humic acids?
Down-To-Earth makes a granular product that's 50% according to the box.
Hmm...
 
Fastslappy

Fastslappy

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Thanks for the link?
GH Floralicious+ is a great product, but I've gotta be careful later in flower because that extra nitrogen can make buds foxtail.
From the label, it looks like fish, kelp, and humic acid. Are you willing to share your recipe? Please???
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yeah bottled powder as above humic ,fish i use grd dry anchovie/sarden (no smell ) kelp meal that I extract with enzymes & LAB , you can make gallons & gallons for $100 bucks of these dry powders
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LUAL8S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002FU68XG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
the emzimes are the Kelp4less food grade
the LAB OR EM1 if u will I make myself for the cost of 2 gallons of milk & 10lbs brw sugar
best part of the dry fish is u can micro manage the N
the grd fish breaks down fast in LAB/enzime now that bottle will smell ,
I do this with grd banana peal as well for late flower
 
Fastslappy

Fastslappy

Well-Known Member
Chunky Stool said:
Has anyone else noticed that liquid humic acid products are only 2-6% humic acids?
Down-To-Earth makes a granular product that's 50% according to the box.
Hmm...
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the one linked had the highest % that i found at the time & that goes to being able to fully dissolve iirc
 
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