Organic Growing: An Introductory Guide

Jubilant

Jubilant

Well-Known Member
Hey there Roy!

I am curious on your original post.

Do you think it would be necessary to supplement any Humic or Fulvic acid into the soil to aid in nutrient solubility/uptake?

Also as I am finally getting to add the Fish Meal, and Crabshell Meal tomorrow but I want to plant as soon as possible what do you think of amending some of my Earth Juice nutrients into the beginning of my run. I was thinking this since Fish Meal and Crab Shell Meal have a lot of the heavier lifting nutrient values while I am waiting for my microherd to make the nutrients biologically available to the roots.

From what I understand these nutrients do not harm biodiversity, quite the contrary they are marketed as biologically friendly and even catalytic in microherd population growth. I was thinking of making another AACT adding Earth Juice Catalyst for microbial growth, then a small does of Earth Juice Grow nutes (to stimulated/promote microbes that utilize the specific nutrients required in the vegetative phase) then I was going to mix that into my soil (I'll be wanting to use this soil ASAP time to start the next grow!) This is more of a theory on my end if that would be effective so I am hoping for some input.
 
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Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Jubilant said:
Hey there Roy!

I am curious on your original post.

Do you think it would be necessary to supplement any Humic or Fulvic acid into the soil to aid in nutrient solubility/uptake?

Also as I am finally getting to add the Fish Meal, and Crabshell Meal tomorrow but I want to plant as soon as possible what do you think of amending some of my Earth Juice nutrients into the beginning of my run. I was thinking this since Fish Meal and Crab Shell Meal have a lot of the heavier lifting nutrient values while I am waiting for my microherd to make the nutrients biologically available to the roots.

From what I understand these nutrients do not harm biodiversity, quite the contrary they are marketed as biologically friendly and even catalytic in microherd population growth. I was thinking of making another AACT adding Earth Juice Catalyst for microbial growth, then a small does of Earth Juice Grow nutes (to stimulated/promote microbes that utilize the specific nutrients required in the vegetative phase) then I was going to mix that into my soil (I'll be wanting to use this soil ASAP time to start the next grow!) This is more of a theory on my end if that would be effective so I am hoping for some input.
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Quality compost and castings are full of humic and fulvic acids (especially if they're fresh and local)...so they're not always necessary to buy...but since it is your first time breaking in your soil, I would definitely use some fulvic acid....I wouldnt say it's necessary but it helps!

I recommend this brand because theyre from my home state and actually care about environment sustainability.

http://www.organicallydone.com/content/amber-fulvic-liquid

Earth juice nutes are marketed as biologically friendly...but they will still slow down microbe growth in an AACT. Leave them out of the teas. They won't kill your soil population so if you already have them and want to use them up then they would be good for getting you started. Don't buy anymore tho... molasses and a bag of kelp will serve you much better than ej catalyst will. Just apply your ej nutes when you water. I'd apply them at half the recommended dose.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
@Jubilant when you say mix in your soil...you don't mean preplanting do you? Only use the ej nutes once you've actually planted to feed the plant...they will do nothing to speed up your soil breakdown if that's your intention. But they will feed your plant directly until your other fertilizers are broken down and plant available.
 
Jubilant

Jubilant

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the assistance my man!
Mixing it into the soil I was more thinking of it would give an abundance of nutrients to a more specific level (vegetative supporting nutrients) therefore boost the population of microbes that can breakdown my non soluble additions. Do you think the nutrients are just too acidic to support microbial growth?
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Jubilant said:
Thank you for the assistance my man!
Mixing it into the soil I was more thinking of it would give an abundance of nutrients to a more specific level (vegetative supporting nutrients) therefore boost the population of microbes that can breakdown my non soluble additions. Do you think the nutrients are just too acidic to support microbial growth?
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I'm confused, are the ej nutes you referring to liquid? Cause that's the impression I was under, those are the ones I'm familiar with. But it sounds like you're talking about granular?
 
Jubilant

Jubilant

Well-Known Member
They are liquid but I was under the impression Earth Juice Catalyst aids in microbial growth as well as supplements some B vitamins to aid in immune system of the plant. It is made from from Oat Bran, Sea Kelp, Molasses, Wheat Malt, and Yeast so that would definitely supply a good diverse carbohydrate source if there isn't something I am missing that counteracts the pros of the solution.

As for Earth Juice Grow being it is derived from Oat bran, sea kelp, bat guano, steamed bone meal, natural potash, blood meal and feather meal I would figure it would be a good food source for any microbes who enjoy recycling these substances.

From what I can gather from all my looking into their formulas and applications these nutrients are for feeding your soil and are designed to not even need PH adjustment regardless of the acidity of the solution (usually low 4s). I am guessing these nutrients are designed to stimulate and perpetuate microbial life in a more barren soil (like typical potting mixes). I myself use to PH my EJ and then stopped and noticed no difference in my plants uptakes which leads me to believe the plants is not directly getting nutrients from my solution (like most liquid salt solutions) rather the benefits the solution gives the soil. I may be absolutely wrong and feel free to tell me if you think so ;)
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Jubilant said:
They are liquid but I was under the impression Earth Juice Catalyst aids in microbial growth as well as supplements some B vitamins to aid in immune system of the plant. It is made from from Oat Bran, Sea Kelp, Molasses, Wheat Malt, and Yeast so that would definitely supply a good diverse carbohydrate source if there isn't something I am missing that counteracts the pros of the solution.

As for Earth Juice Grow being it is derived from Oat bran, sea kelp, bat guano, steamed bone meal, natural potash, blood meal and feather meal I would figure it would be a good food source for any microbes who enjoy recycling these substances.

From what I can gather from all my looking into their formulas and applications these nutrients are for feeding your soil and are designed to not even need PH adjustment regardless of the acidity of the solution (usually low 4s). I am guessing these nutrients are designed to stimulate and perpetuate microbial life in a more barren soil (like typical potting mixes). I myself use to PH my EJ and then stopped and noticed no difference in my plants uptakes which leads me to believe the plants is not directly getting nutrients from my solution (like most liquid salt solutions) rather the benefits the solution gives the soil. I may be absolutely wrong and feel free to tell me if you think so ;)
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I don't think you're wrong about how it's supposed to work, I just think it's too water soluble to last in your soil for long, hence the need for a microbial stimulant product. To make sure the biology is right there to get the uptake process going. Which is why I think you shouldn't add it to your soil unless you've already got plants in it. Also why you would definitely benefit from a humic or fulvic acid product if going that route.

And while yes catalyst will stimulate microbes, it also has to have some sort of preservative in it that would also slow microbe growth...which is why I would keep it out of an AACT. Molasses on its own is a catalyst for stimulating microbiology and it is much cheaper.
 
Jubilant

Jubilant

Well-Known Member
Oh man awesome input as always!

I have just mixed the rest of my amendments in my soil (the Fish Meal and Crab Shell Meal)
My neighbor was very helpful in this process but anyway I have started my seedlings in a starter mix they are in solo cup sized cups and I will need to transplant them in roughly 2 weeks I am guessing to my newly made soil. If I get Fulvic Acid should I just mix it into some water and add it to my soil or wait till I plant and add it to some waterings?

EDIT: Also I was planning on just brewing another AACT for my house plants, current grow, and adding to my soil as I think it will be dry soon is this a positive thing to do without plants in it yet?
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Jubilant said:
Oh man awesome input as always!

I have just mixed the rest of my amendments in my soil (the Fish Meal and Crab Shell Meal)
My neighbor was very helpful in this process but anyway I have started my seedlings in a starter mix they are in solo cup sized cups and I will need to transplant them in roughly 2 weeks I am guessing to my newly made soil. If I get Fulvic Acid should I just mix it into some water and add it to my soil or wait till I plant and add it to some waterings?

EDIT: Also I was planning on just brewing another AACT for my house plants, current grow, and adding to my soil as I think it will be dry soon is this a positive thing to do without plants in it yet?
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You only want to use fulvic acid when you are planted, it won't help you otherwise.

Adding the AACT to your soil will add microbiology, so it's not negative. But if you already got your soil cooking you shouldn't necessarily need to add it. But it won't hurt! Just make sure you're not getting the soil to wet! Remember, wrung out sponge!
 
Muskegman

Muskegman

Well-Known Member
Update for y'all, Finished all up. Averaged 4 oz a plant . The best so far. I know that's nothing compared to what some people in here say they grow , but I don't have the best grow room, as it's outside, 8its winter, not sealed, no CO2. Just soil, worm casting tea, and 600w hps. This is a incredible Bulk bud. Turned out amazing . Thank you for all the help. This is the best thread I've been a part of so far. Especially, thank you to Rasta. Couldn't be be IMG_0891.JPG happier. Once again thank you for all the help.
 
Fastslappy

Fastslappy

Well-Known Member
hey what top dress do u guys use for fungus flies/////????
, I live next to a creek they are just here, they're be another fly thew a door atm , the only days they aren't flying in frosty weather that stays cold & moist well the days it drops below freezing Here is when it's Dry as Fuck (like now)crystal clear & by 10am the no fly zone is over the F is Up ! that only happens maybe a week every other year
Dead winter I can see swarms of them in little clouds in the sunlight on a Jan day where the sun warms my back patio area , t
gearing up my new room with "O" gro this round my 1st O indoor
wanna stop them on a daily basis , 'any water only' watering will be done with a 24 hr per BT inoculate
looking maybe straw as a barrier ?
wrap the whole bag/soil with a panty hose & water thru it ?
Nematodes ?
I've used Dioearth & a oil spray when a infestation is at it's worst , but I don't wanna get there
I seen a fly on my seedlings & i'm getting mean here :cuss:
sorry flies cause bud rot on a few footballs this summer I haven't got over it yet :wall:
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Fastslappy said:
hey what top dress do u guys use for fungus flies/////????
, I live next to a creek they are just here, they're be another fly thew a door atm , the only days they aren't flying in frosty weather that stays cold & moist well the days it drops below freezing Here is when it's Dry as Fuck (like now)crystal clear & by 10am the no fly zone is over the F is Up ! that only happens maybe a week every other year
Dead winter I can see swarms of them in little clouds in the sunlight on a Jan day where the sun warms my back patio area , t
gearing up my new room with "O" gro this round my 1st O indoor
wanna stop them on a daily basis , 'any water only' watering will be done with a 24 hr per BT inoculate
looking maybe straw as a barrier ?
wrap the whole bag/soil with a panty hose & water thru it ?
Nematodes ?
I've used Dioearth & a oil spray when a infestation is at it's worst , but I don't wanna get there
I seen a fly on my seedlings & i'm getting mean here :cuss:
sorry flies cause bud rot on a few footballs this summer I haven't got over it yet :wall:
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Mosquito dunks, might help.
 
Fastslappy

Fastslappy

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
Mosquito dunks, might help.
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I use natrol it's the same thing but cheaper to use little 1/16 tsp +1\4 tsp molassis let sit 24 hrs warm in old gallon milk jug no chlorine water
Goes cloudy ur good to go works as spray as well for caterpillars
I got a pint jar 3 years ago at hydrogalaxy it's sand like few grains in any water growth medium
In tea it gets eaten I'd guess
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
Fastslappy said:
hey what top dress do u guys use for fungus flies/////????
, I live next to a creek they are just here, they're be another fly thew a door atm , the only days they aren't flying in frosty weather that stays cold & moist well the days it drops below freezing Here is when it's Dry as Fuck (like now)crystal clear & by 10am the no fly zone is over the F is Up ! that only happens maybe a week every other year
Dead winter I can see swarms of them in little clouds in the sunlight on a Jan day where the sun warms my back patio area , t
gearing up my new room with "O" gro this round my 1st O indoor
wanna stop them on a daily basis , 'any water only' watering will be done with a 24 hr per BT inoculate
looking maybe straw as a barrier ?
wrap the whole bag/soil with a panty hose & water thru it ?
Nematodes ?
I've used Dioearth & a oil spray when a infestation is at it's worst , but I don't wanna get there
I seen a fly on my seedlings & i'm getting mean here :cuss:
sorry flies cause bud rot on a few footballs this summer I haven't got over it yet :wall:
Click to expand...
For a physical barrier, put down about 4cm layer of quartz sand or similar as a mulch.
It stops the reproduction cycle, but doesn't kill the eggs, which, as soon as the sand is removed, will then repopulate all over. So whilst the sand is on, may be the good time to do the other stuff - the BT and the nematodes.

NOT straw, it creates a perfect fungus gnat habitat ;)
 
Jubilant

Jubilant

Well-Known Member
calliandra said:
For a physical barrier, put down about 4cm layer of quartz sand or similar as a mulch....
Click to expand...
Fastslappy said:
hey what top dress do u guys use for fungus flies/////????...
Click to expand...

Diatomaceous Earth is a GREAT substance to leave powered and DRY for Fungus Gnat control. Make sure you use food grade D.E. or it is very hazardous to breath in. This will pierce those little larvae and kill off most the population in your soil if you let it dry out thoroughly between waterings.

I had an issue with Fungus Gnats and I used D.E. by making a fine layer over the top of the soil then mixed it into the top layer (no more than 1/4 inch deep) then I places another fine layer on the soil covering the top but still a fine layer, then I place Yellow Fly Paper in the pots as well. With that trick and making sure soil dries fully between waterings left me with virtually no gnats in 1.5-2 weeks. I did make sure to replace the fine layer on top of D.E. after a watering as moist D.E. will not be effective as a pesticide.
 
calliandra

calliandra

Well-Known Member
Jubilant said:
Diatomaceous Earth is a GREAT substance to leave powered and DRY for Fungus Gnat control. Make sure you use food grade D.E. or it is very hazardous to breath in. This will pierce those little larvae and kill off most the population in your soil if you let it dry out thoroughly between waterings.

I had an issue with Fungus Gnats and I used D.E. by making a fine layer over the top of the soil then mixed it into the top layer (no more than 1/4 inch deep) then I places another fine layer on the soil covering the top but still a fine layer, then I place Yellow Fly Paper in the pots as well. With that trick and making sure soil dries fully between waterings left me with virtually no gnats in 1.5-2 weeks. I did make sure to replace the fine layer on top of D.E. after a watering as moist D.E. will not be effective as a pesticide.
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Yeah I did want to try DE a while back too.
But just the fact that it can be dangerous to inhale makes it iffey to me.
I don't like the idea of the way it functions - it cuts up fungus gnat larva bodies that move over it?
So what about the soil mites and others who I WANT to have in there, will they get injured too?
Enough questions to make me drop diatomaceous earth before I even picked it up ;)

In fact, I'm so sceptical that I would say what worked in your case was more likely the sticky paper + letting the topsoil dry out. Just think on it: your soil was dry, with the DE sprinkled on it.
Where do the fungus gnat larvae live? in the moist.
So pretty sure they weren't romping around on that dry soil, getting themselves breaded up with DE, which then killed them...Yeah it may have zapped some in the fly stage, as they landed to lay eggs...? :bigjoint:
 
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NaturalFarmer

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
DE when used properly is awesome for killing Fungus gnats and Root Aphids. You need to top dress your soil bag with the DE and let the bag dry out for about a week. Any larvae that try to gain entry to the surface are killed, and any flier is unable to lay eggs. Personally I like to top dress the DE with sand as well, but the DE can be scrapped off after the week is done because it can make a harden sludge on top when watered.

Diatomaceous Earth (Silicon Dioxide) has two naturally occurring forms....Crystalline and Amorphous......The crystalline structure is the most dangerous to your lungs. There are three grades of DE on the market. Filter grade for pools which a crystalline structure that contain heavy metals. Feed grade which is amorphous (so it is not as bad on your lungs) but also can contain heavy metals. FOOD GRADE IS THE ONLY ONE PEOPLE SHOULD BE USING. This is amorphous and contains no heavy metals (only a handful out of hundreds of DE mines are food grade because the heavy metal content) Most often however, people use the stuff at Home Depot (Safer) which is not food grade.
 
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