Onyx or A51?

spazatak · Mar 12, 2014

PSUAGRO. said:
What he say about the warranty if the lenses are removed????????...........I'm not going into mike's response........ his remark is VERY debatable Good luck Db........and be safe

Please do give you opinions...Its always good to hear new points of view

dbkick · Mar 12, 2014

I didn't even ask about that since I'll be leaving my fogged over diffused lenses as is.
His remark leaves much room for discussion but seems pretty accurate to me.
Good luck to you too my friend.

dbkick · Mar 12, 2014

I'll be getting my other panels and MAYBE ordering a couple more (1 more veg at least).
I'll probably be moving everything back over to the dissent (where I used to have friends and shit) just because I feel more peaceful there. Plus I will be doing some dwc eventually. First will be a low pressure aero/nft table. Probably do an onyx vrs wtfever light of similar wattage in a partitioned off tent. same table separated down the middle with two different forms of lighting on the sides.
It's been fun, good luck all.

SupraSPL · Mar 12, 2014

The problem with lenses is that they penalize all the photons, even the ones that are already headed in the correct direction, which is why I prefer reflectors. What Mike is saying is that 120 degrees was too wide, so they used lenses to tighten the beam, but the beam was too tight so they widened it with diffusion. The diffusion actually redirects photons away from the canopy in addition to converting more of them into heat in the process. Not hatin, I like the onyx overall.

Scotch089 · Mar 12, 2014

PSUAGRO. said:
What he say about the warranty if the lenses are removed????????...........I'm not going into mike's response........ his remark is VERY debatable

Good luck Db........and be safe

Thanks psu, make me the bad guy....... Yea, im sorry, but I have a flashlight there in the kitchen drawer that I could post some attachments here in a second and replicate what he sent you (with the same lens, clear fwiw)

I have heard why 51, and AT run lenses, and that was enough for me. don't get me wrong, im stoked about the xml panel, just really skeptical of the physical dimensions vs. spread, in your second picture you posted it looks like a major dark spot on the left side. Maybve angled?

Im not gonna say it, but I feel like "frosted" lenses like that would absorb/block more light than clear... How much was it again? 250w is some good pull to be able to spread, how many emitters? Sorry, ill go back and look. be safe!

digimidgi · Mar 13, 2014

Well I've finally un-screwed the bitch. As you can see, if the lenses are removed and the cover put back on, a whole lot of light will shine inside the actual unit which would be terrible.
I don't like the idea of using the panel without the cover so I'm keeping the lenses on... for now anyway, unless someone has a cunning plan?

digimidgi · Mar 13, 2014

Also... Sorry I won't be testing this Onyx by itself... and I can't use it until my darlings are ready to switch

spazatak · Mar 13, 2014

Shame they dont make a clear version.

I dont see how with a logical point of view frosted wouldnt hinder the amount of light getting through.... regardless of beam angle theory... frosted would surely be detrimental when compared to clear

dbkick · Mar 13, 2014

cmon people. Mike at Rapid has been doing this a lot longer than any of you and I think he knows what he's talking about. On the other hand none of you a51 fanbois have asked a51 why they use clear diffusers.
Thanks for the photos of the Onyx digi. I already like these lights clear diffuser or not.
Clear seems like it would be detrimental to me as Mike explained.
If you can't take a hint from someone that's been building and selling led for a good long time then I guess it's on you.
Now maybe one of you area 51 fanbois can write them and see what their take is on it.
I think it's like a mechanical shop, all do things a different way but ALL do things the RIGHT way.

Greengenes707 · Mar 13, 2014

Look up the definition of diffusing.
The goal of a light is to get light to the plants. Clear do that better. If it was possible to get the intensity up without lenses companies woul do it. Highest transparency is what a light maker and user want.

PSUAGRO. · Mar 13, 2014

digimidgi said:
Well I've finally un-screwed the bitch. As you can see, if the lenses are removed and the cover put back on, a whole lot of light will shine inside the actual unit which would be terrible.
I don't like the idea of using the panel without the cover so I'm keeping the lenses on... for now anyway, unless someone has a cunning plan?

View attachment 3021505 View attachment 3021506 View attachment 3021507 View attachment 3021508 View attachment 3021509 View attachment 3021510 View attachment 3021511 View attachment 3021512 View attachment 3021513 View attachment 3021514 View attachment 3021515 View attachment 3021516

Thanks for the pics Digi again!!!!!

.......yeah unless your running it without the secondary lenses AND face-plate their is no point by it's design; surely this voids the warranty as well with the electronics severely exposed. I would keep it the way it is meant to be run until they maybe offer an aluminum insert/reflector for each face plate hole down the line????

good luck and be safe digi

spazatak · Mar 13, 2014

dbkick said:
cmon people. Mike at Rapid has been doing this a lot longer than any of you and I think he knows what he's talking about. On the other hand none of you a51 fanbois have asked a51 why they use clear diffusers.
Thanks for the photos of the Onyx digi. I already like these lights clear diffuser or not.
Clear seems like it would be detrimental to me as Mike explained.
If you can't take a hint from someone that's been building and selling led for a good long time then I guess it's on you.
Now maybe one of you area 51 fanbois can write them and see what their take is on it.
I think it's like a mechanical shop, all do things a different way but ALL do things the RIGHT way.

Mike may have been building a lot longer than us but as far as the bigger companies who have been building horticulturally perhaps not...so as far as taking the hint from others who have done it for longer than us I would say the success rate of the other major players in the market speak for themselves

Its not so much about the beam of light but the intensity of the light.... remember these they are also claiming it replaces a 600W HPS which I highly doubt and so far they have no record of growth success. I dont think anybody disputes the beam may be better with a diffused lense but the intensity may not.... this is why I am questioning it.. I dont know and his description hasnt mentioned anything other than the beam angle is better....it mentioned nothing about his loss of intensity or gain.. It may be a case of swings and roundabouts but either way he is doing something different and it will always be questioned at first

It is normal to question why someones would bring out a light that goes against general concesus of what has worked previously...its not fanboyism and quite frankly that is getting old...

I wish you the best for your lights though and hope they grow monster buds... Honestly I do but I still remain skeptical about the diffused lense..

dbkick · Mar 13, 2014

spazatak said:
Mike may have been building a lot longer than us but as far as the bigger companies who have been building horticulturally perhaps not...so as far as taking the hint from others who have done it for longer than us I would say the success rate of the other major players in the market speak for themselves

Its not so much about the beam of light but the intensity of the light.... remember these they are also claiming it replaces a 600W HPS which I highly doubt and so far they have no record of growth success. I dont think anybody disputes the beam may be better with a diffused lense but the intensity may not.... this is why I am questioning it.. I dont know and his description hasnt mentioned anything other than the beam angle is better....it mentioned nothing about his loss of intensity or gain.. It may be a case of swings and roundabouts but either way he is doing something different and it will always be questioned at first

It is normal to question why someones would bring out a light that goes against general concesus of what has worked previously...its not fanboyism and quite frankly that is getting old...

I wish you the best for your lights though and hope they grow monster buds... Honestly I do but I still remain skeptical about the diffused lense..

You know, hey, the motherfucker may burst into flames for all I know BUT when I look at the light I can see it puts out a lot more quality light than the size would indicate.
And the intensity may come from the 10 watt emitters but then they may burst into flames too so.....
And if the lights don't put out the "monster bud" I know the HID will so it's not as thing.

spazatak · Mar 13, 2014

dbkick said:
You know, hey, the motherfucker may burst into flames for all I know BUT when I look at the light I can see it puts out a lot more quality light than the size would indicate.
And the intensity may come from the 10 watt emitters but then they may burst into flames too so.....
And if the lights don't put out the "monster bud" I know the HID will so it's not as thing.

Man like I said... good luck with it.. I hope it works out for you..

when dropping close to a grand on lights who wouldnt question why they something that no one else does

Scotch089 · Mar 13, 2014

dbkick said:
... I think they'll advance in the horticulture area.

And I bet when they do, they'll use different lenses. I hate trying to decide how I want to reply to repsonses like yours.. might as well say "cmon guys, don't give your opinion, I bought this light and don't want to hear anything negative,"

Thats not why we are here, its called constructive critcism. Just like Psu suggested takin em off...

And mike very well may know what he's talking about- I can say, no doubt he probably knows more about what he is trying to accomplish with his light than myself. But thats the problem. You stated it yourself DB. They are not built for our applications- so they are not going to be as efficient or deliver or cover on the same playing field as something built FOR what we are trying to do.

The fact they run xmls is kick ass, I know psu would like to see some different CREEs used in horticulture, and I am sure Supra wouldn't mind some serious adjustments to efficiency in the mainstream panels

but like what the OP of this thread just said earlier Mike hypes up how he spreads the light but speaks nothing to whats hitting the floor beneath it... unless you are growing coral, intensity may not be a huge thing for aqua. users. Im thinking not since they are using the WW XMLs instead (to replicate the effect of the natural Sun on water?) of something more blue heavy (mono blues for photons...)......but that is for growing in water, not scenery. From what I've read.

O and fuck the fanBOI thing. You think im a "fan" then you're more igorant than I thought. Im a Consumer. A fucking damn good one thank you very much, probably 5% of the US Economy's spending in a single household, right here! GD.

No, but I bust my ass to due credit to what I know is right, and I take my time to make sure before pulling the trigger that it is the best decision to make. No speculations, no bullshit. Just fact. The only reason Area 51 pops back up time and time again, is because of just that. They are proven, and they use down to earth logic (not bullshit, "simply misconstruing the truth's into lies logic" like chinese comps do all over) and show numbers, along with explanations and cold hard data. So the fact that the ~#2 company in horticulture LEDs right now rubs you wrong- thats something YOU gotta work out. Call me a fan all day long, I am- of their lights, of the company... ahhhh.. we get along. Id keep it at that. What I can tell you: they stick to customer service, they make one of these best products on the market... hang on... here:

-Quietest panel Ive owned (between pro grows spectras apache and apollos, literally quieter than my Tetra Whisper 100's)

-Delivers what they state

-Literally lifetime warrantied, so far, as long as YOU keep it.

-And universal, so if you end up not needing it here... maybe you can use it there (just like youre all white panel)

I am a fan of good quality products, Id like to keep spending my money in the US as much as I can- but the gov needs to get on the INSANE amount of dependents it has sucking from the teet and not getting out and getting jobs, i know i know jobs are hard to come by... whatever, anyways, whether I go through '51, or AT, or CLW, yea..., Im still going to be supporting some other countries economy in some way shape or form down the grapevine. (solder, pcbs, what the fuck ever..) Sorry I've gone off in a tangent, did I black out? what happened?

No dude, Im not trying to hurt your feelings, I think that onyx is sweet, but I do think it is made for a different application, thus holding it back from its true "potential" in the garden. (intensity), I do like the concern he shows for spread, but that's not the whole game....

PetFlora · Mar 13, 2014

LIKE!

Scotch089 said:
And I bet when they do, they'll use different lenses. I hate trying to decide how I want to reply to repsonses like yours.. might as well say "cmon guys, don't give your opinion, I bought this light and don't want to hear anything negative,"

Thats not why we are here, its called constructive critcism. Just like Psu suggested takin em off...

And mike very well may know what he's talking about- I can say, no doubt he probably knows more about what he is trying to accomplish with his light than myself. But thats the problem. You stated it yourself DB. They are not built for our applications- so they are not going to be as efficient or deliver or cover on the same playing field as something built FOR what we are trying to do.

The fact they run xmls is kick ass, I know psu would like to see some different CREEs used in horticulture, and I am sure Supra wouldn't mind some serious adjustments to efficiency in the mainstream panels but like what the OP of this thread just said earlier Mike hypes up how he spreads the light but speaks nothing to whats hitting the floor beneath it... unless you are growing coral, intensity may not be a huge thing for aqua. users. Im thinking not since they are using the WW XMLs instead (to replicate the effect of the natural Sun on water?) of something more blue heavy (mono blues for photons...)......but that is for growing in water, not scenery. From what I've read.

O and fuck the fanBOI thing. You think im a "fan" then you're more igorant than I thought. Im a Consumer. A fucking damn good one thank you very much, probably 5% of the US Economy's spending in a single household, right here! GD. No, but I bust my ass to due credit to what I know is right, and I take my time to make sure before pulling the trigger that it is the best decision to make. No speculations, no bullshit. Just fact. The only reason Area 51 pops back up time and time again, is because of just that. They are proven, and they use down to earth logic (not bullshit, "simply misconstruing the truth's into lies logic" like chinese comps do all over) and show numbers, along with explanations and cold hard data. So the fact that the ~#2 company in horticulture LEDs right now rubs you wrong- thats something YOU gotta work out. Call me a fan all day long, I am- of their lights, of the company... ahhhh.. we get along. Id keep it at that. What I can tell you: they stick to customer service, they make one of these best products on the market... hang on... here:

-Quietest panel Ive owned (between pro grows spectras apache and apollos, literally quieter than my Tetra Whisper 100's)

-Delivers what they state

-Literally lifetime warrantied, so far, as long as YOU keep it.

-And universal, so if you end up not needing it here... maybe you can use it there (just like youre all white panel)

I am a fan of good quality products, Id like to keep spending my money in the US as much as I can- but the gov needs to get on the INSANE amount of dependents it has sucking from the teet and not getting out and getting jobs, i know i know jobs are hard to come by... whatever, anyways, whether I go through '51, or AT, or CLW, yea..., Im still going to be supporting some other countries economy in some way shape or form down the grapevine. (solder, pcbs, what the fuck ever..) Sorry I've gone off in a tangent, did I black out? what happened?

No dude, Im not trying to hurt your feelings, I think that onyx is sweet, but I do think it is made for a different application, thus holding it back from its true "potential" in the garden. (intensity), I do like the concern he shows for spread, but that's not the whole game....

PSUAGRO. · Mar 13, 2014

^^^^^like........like as well.....

I agree with you scotch, maybe rapid led has been around for awhile BUT this is their FIRST pre-fab led grow light. The fact (as seen in digi's pics ^^^) that they don't have each xml-2 emitter enclosed(prevent internal light leak) is a design flaw IMO. Digi said that there is a good amount of light hitting inside the panel with the secondary lenses off/faceplate on due to the 120 degree primary lens/1 inch gap. So they stick a CLEAR/diffuser topped secondary 80 degree lens on them, so it's still having light losses inside the panel! we are looking at possible 25%+ total light losses here===== way too much.

Rapid led needs to copy the Hans panel and place secondary 100 degree aluminum reflector in each face-plate hole with NO coverings to massively improve losses IMO. Another option for now, would be removing BOTH the face-plate/and lenses and wrapping some orca/mylar/etc around the perimeter of the fixture to "bounce" down the side lighting onto the canopy more efficiently. BUT no warranty left or just don't tell them/ put it back together when shipping for repair

I like the remote driver(wish it was dimmable out of the box) and emitters used no doubt. The revision(v2) onyx bloom should be a great improvement.

Edit.......forget about sentence structure/grammar/spelling.......fuck swype

tkowitha123 · Mar 13, 2014

Just wanted to add That I'm loveing my han's panels I can't even hear them, with my face right next to the fan all I hear is the quite hum of my exhaust fan. I've harvested 3 plants bloomed with the Han's panel and I can honestly say that the Bud's mature faster and seem to be larger on the bottom from what they were when I was running 2200 watts of hid, now I run 355 watts of L.E.D. POWER and have bigger denser buds on top and more mature, fuller growth towards the bottom of the plant... Leds were the smartest descision I ever made, Sorry if I rambled on a little :joint:

you know

dbkick · Mar 13, 2014

Scotch089 said:
And I bet when they do, they'll use different lenses. I hate trying to decide how I want to reply to repsonses like yours.. might as well say "cmon guys, don't give your opinion, I bought this light and don't want to hear anything negative,"

Thats not why we are here, its called constructive critcism. Just like Psu suggested takin em off...

And mike very well may know what he's talking about- I can say, no doubt he probably knows more about what he is trying to accomplish with his light than myself. But thats the problem. You stated it yourself DB. They are not built for our applications- so they are not going to be as efficient or deliver or cover on the same playing field as something built FOR what we are trying to do.

The fact they run xmls is kick ass, I know psu would like to see some different CREEs used in horticulture, and I am sure Supra wouldn't mind some serious adjustments to efficiency in the mainstream panels but like what the OP of this thread just said earlier Mike hypes up how he spreads the light but speaks nothing to whats hitting the floor beneath it... unless you are growing coral, intensity may not be a huge thing for aqua. users. Im thinking not since they are using the WW XMLs instead (to replicate the effect of the natural Sun on water?) of something more blue heavy (mono blues for photons...)......but that is for growing in water, not scenery. From what I've read.

O and fuck the fanBOI thing. You think im a "fan" then you're more igorant than I thought. Im a Consumer. A fucking damn good one thank you very much, probably 5% of the US Economy's spending in a single household, right here! GD. No, but I bust my ass to due credit to what I know is right, and I take my time to make sure before pulling the trigger that it is the best decision to make. No speculations, no bullshit. Just fact. The only reason Area 51 pops back up time and time again, is because of just that. They are proven, and they use down to earth logic (not bullshit, "simply misconstruing the truth's into lies logic" like chinese comps do all over) and show numbers, along with explanations and cold hard data. So the fact that the ~#2 company in horticulture LEDs right now rubs you wrong- thats something YOU gotta work out. Call me a fan all day long, I am- of their lights, of the company... ahhhh.. we get along. Id keep it at that. What I can tell you: they stick to customer service, they make one of these best products on the market... hang on... here:

-Quietest panel Ive owned (between pro grows spectras apache and apollos, literally quieter than my Tetra Whisper 100's)

-Delivers what they state

-Literally lifetime warrantied, so far, as long as YOU keep it.

-And universal, so if you end up not needing it here... maybe you can use it there (just like youre all white panel)

I am a fan of good quality products, Id like to keep spending my money in the US as much as I can- but the gov needs to get on the INSANE amount of dependents it has sucking from the teet and not getting out and getting jobs, i know i know jobs are hard to come by... whatever, anyways, whether I go through '51, or AT, or CLW, yea..., Im still going to be supporting some other countries economy in some way shape or form down the grapevine. (solder, pcbs, what the fuck ever..) Sorry I've gone off in a tangent, did I black out? what happened?

No dude, Im not trying to hurt your feelings, I think that onyx is sweet, but I do think it is made for a different application, thus holding it back from its true "potential" in the garden. (intensity), I do like the concern he shows for spread, but that's not the whole game....

You must be mistaken , they arent a reef light and I believe they designed the new models just for our application.

The Dawg · Mar 13, 2014

Im A Fanboy And The Fanboy Says Its PeanutButter Jelly Time PeanutButter Jelly Time PeanutButter Jelly Time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Oh Hell Ya Give It To Me Again PeanutButter Jelly Time PeanutButter Jelly Time PeanutButter Jelly Time

Onyx or A51?

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